Here's a full record of ceasefire violations on both sides since the commencement of the agreement at the end of August: 10/31: A single rocket reportedly landed in Eshkol Regional Council, southern Israel. No injuries or property damaged was caused, and none of the Palestinian factions claimed responsibility. Yet it triggered an indefinite border closure and F16 forays. Gazans suspect a false-flag operation. 10/29: A 27-year-old man identified only by his initials, S. Gh., was seriously injured after being shot in the thigh in Beit Lahiya. He was taken to Kamal Udwan Hospital. An Israeli army spokesman said warning shots were fired because the man “approached the security fence.” 10/28: The Israeli navy targeted Palestinian fishing boats with gunfire offshore the coast of Gaza. No casualties were reported. 10/22: Israeli forces opened fire on two boats carrying seven fishermen. Five fishermen from the Bakr family were taken into custody for questioning and their boat was dragged to an unknown location. 10/16: Israeli boats opened fire at boats belonging to local a fisherman off the coast of Deir al-Balah. The boat belonging to Jamal Abu Watfa was sunk in the attack and he lost consciousness, but was saved from the water. 10/11: A 24-year-old civilian was injured by Israeli fire approximately 300 meters from the border in Beit Lahia. 10/9: Israeli army forces stationed at the Kisovim military post opened fire on Palestinian farmlands in Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip. No injuries were reported. 10/7: Navy ships and a helicopter opened fire close to a number of fishing boats in the al-Waha area, in northwest Gaza, causing damage but no injuries. 9/22: Israeli gunboats opened fire at a Palestinian boat carrying five fishermen off the Al-Zahra shore, southwest of Gaza City. The five men were forced to jump into the water and swim to the Israeli ship, where their hands were bound and they were taken to Ashdod Seaport. They were freed the next day, but their boat was not released. 9/16: A single rocket was fired from Gaza into southern Israel, but was not claimed by any Palestinian faction and no injuries/property damage resulted. 9/9: Israeli naval forces detained two Palestinian fishermen from the Al-Sultan family, Tariq (18) and ‘Issam ‘Abdel Bari Mohammed Bahaa’ Yousif Mohammed (21), just 1.5 miles from the coast of Beit Lahiya in the northern Gaza Strip. Their boat was confiscated and the men were arrested. An hour and a half later, gunned down the fishing boat of two other Al-Sultan brothers - Bahaa’ Yousif Mohammed (25) and Ahmed As’ad Mohammed (22). They too were arrested and their boat was confiscated. 9/3: Israeli gunboats opened fire at Palestinian fishing boats sailing within one nautical mile off the shore of Beit Lahia. Soldiers forced two fishermen, Mohammed Ishaq Mohammed Zayed (18) and Mousa Talal ‘Ata Al-Sultan (24), to jump into the water and swim toward the Israeli gunboat. 10/1: Twelve military vehicles entered Gaza from a gate east of the town of al-Fukhari in the Khan Younis district. The vehicles reportedly crossed some 200 meters into the Strip, and soldiers scanned the area before shooting towards Palestinian farms. Agricultural workers were forced to leave their fields when soldiers shot. 9/29: Rajab Maarouf, a 22-year-old farmer, was shot in the foot in northern Beit Lahiya and taken to Kamal Adwan hospital with moderate injuries. 9/17: Israeli naval forces opened fire off the coast of northern Gaza, moderately injuring fisherman Yousef Zayif, 70. 9/14: An Israeli war ship fired “warning shots” at Palestinian fishermen off the coast of Gaza City’s Al-Shati refugee camp. 9/12: Israeli navy forces opened fire at Palestinian fishermen off the coast of Beit Lahiya to the north. 9/11: Four Israeli bulldozers entered a border area in southern Gaza, near the village of al-Qarara, and leveled private Palestinian land. Military vehicles accompanying the bulldozers fired shots, with no reports of injuries. 9/8: Israeli military fired on fishermen, pushing them back to a five-mile limit. 9/5: Israeli military opened fire on two fishermen and arrested them. 9/2: Israeli military opened fire with machine guns on Gaza fishermen.
Kill thousands, destroy infrastructure, cut off boarder entry for food and rebuilding supplies but have a coke and a smile.
Remind people of atrocities (reasonably leading to anger), offer no valuable input or potential solutions (leaving the anger in peoples' minds), but have a coke and smile.
Again, I struggle comprehending how this campaign of post after post of atrocity after atrocity can lead to anything positive for the people whose cause you're attempting to fight for. Do tell me how increased anger and aggression from the people outside of Israel towards Israel and Israelis can lead to change within Israel and Israeli mentalities (the people in the power position). If you can give me a good answer, I'll have no need to keep repeating myself and I'll gladly join you in this campaign.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Kill thousands, destroy infrastructure, cut off boarder entry for food and rebuilding supplies but have a coke and a smile.
Remind people of atrocities (reasonably leading to anger), offer no valuable input or potential solutions (leaving the anger in peoples' minds), but have a coke and smile.
Again, I struggle comprehending how this campaign of post after post of atrocity after atrocity can lead to anything positive for the people whose cause you're attempting to fight for. Do tell me how increased anger and aggression from the people outside of Israel towards Israel and Israelis can lead to change within Israel and Israeli mentalities (the people in the power position). If you can give me a good answer, I'll have no need to keep repeating myself and I'll gladly join you in this campaign.
In all fairness Ben, we are CONSTANTLY reminded every year about the holocaust aren't we not? I remember spending 1 week on the holocaust and only 2 days on the civil war when I was in school. I would think the civil war was way more important to America then the holocaust.
And not for nothing, if we were supposed to learn from the holocaust and "NEVER AGAIN", then why is Israel doing exactly what they said "NEVER AGAIN" to? And Ben, not directing this last paragraph at you. Just sort of making a point.
Kill thousands, destroy infrastructure, cut off boarder entry for food and rebuilding supplies but have a coke and a smile.
Remind people of atrocities (reasonably leading to anger), offer no valuable input or potential solutions (leaving the anger in peoples' minds), but have a coke and smile.
Again, I struggle comprehending how this campaign of post after post of atrocity after atrocity can lead to anything positive for the people whose cause you're attempting to fight for. Do tell me how increased anger and aggression from the people outside of Israel towards Israel and Israelis can lead to change within Israel and Israeli mentalities (the people in the power position). If you can give me a good answer, I'll have no need to keep repeating myself and I'll gladly join you in this campaign.
In all fairness Ben, we are CONSTANTLY reminded every year about the holocaust aren't we not? I remember spending 1 week on the holocaust and only 2 days on the civil war when I was in school. I would think the civil war was way more important to America then the holocaust.
And not for nothing, if we were supposed to learn from the holocaust and "NEVER AGAIN", then why is Israel doing exactly what they said "NEVER AGAIN" to? And Ben, not directing this last paragraph at you. Just sort of making a point.
Nart, I agree with you that we're constantly reminded about the Holocaust. I went to Jewish day school, so I'd have been lucky if it was just one week learning about it. My typical response now when I hear someone talking about the Holocaust is to remind them that a different kind of ethnic cleansing is occurring now by the same people who were once on the other side of the guns, and how this represents the betrayal of the global motion to swear, as you accurately pointed out, "never again". I'm also happy to point out to people the existence of the numerous horrific genocides throughout history (after a visit to Cambodia, that one resonates profoundly with me every single day).
I suppose that the difference for me in the way these discussions here are going, when compared to teaching children about the Holocaust, is the implicit and explicit "so what". "Never again" is the "so what" when it comes to Holocaust education as I see it: it's a campaign to promote young people questioning predetermined societal indoctrinations, to show the significance of not just tolerance but true harmonious coexistence, and to show the necessity of admission of guilt, seeking reparations to injustices, and the strive to always be learning from mistakes.
We've done the first part of this THOROUGHLY here: we've recognized an injustice. But thanks to social media, global news coverage (both grassroots and as delivered through people with hidden or visible agendas), that's the easy part. And maybe this frustrates me so much is because I can't figure out the "so what", but it seems to me that this is the crucial next step, and I see it as a waste of energy to focus on something known, when we know it only catalyzes hatred and not progress (not to mention the redundancy, because this is not news anymore: this is reality for anyone in the region).
Believe me, I want to visit the one secular state of whatever-the-fuck-you-want-to-call-Israel-and-Palestine-together one day. It's that link of logic between "Israelis are cruelly dehumanizing Palestinians and stripping them of critical human rights" and the future dream of "Israelis and Palestinians live harmoniously together with equal rights and opportunities and no concern of sectarian affiliations" that's missing, and we need to seek those actions that will bring about this harmony.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Kill thousands, destroy infrastructure, cut off boarder entry for food and rebuilding supplies but have a coke and a smile.
Remind people of atrocities (reasonably leading to anger), offer no valuable input or potential solutions (leaving the anger in peoples' minds), but have a coke and smile.
Again, I struggle comprehending how this campaign of post after post of atrocity after atrocity can lead to anything positive for the people whose cause you're attempting to fight for. Do tell me how increased anger and aggression from the people outside of Israel towards Israel and Israelis can lead to change within Israel and Israeli mentalities (the people in the power position). If you can give me a good answer, I'll have no need to keep repeating myself and I'll gladly join you in this campaign.
Awareness is the first step. Nothing wrong with educating everyone.
And just because some are well versed on the conflict doesn't mean everyone is. Some want to educate and others want to debate solutions, nothing wrong with either.
And fucken Israel STILL GETS TO BUILD ON FUCKEN LAND THATS NOT THEIRS! Wtf, where are they getting their permits to build on PALESTINIAN land that's NOT theirs.
And fucken Israel STILL GETS TO BUILD ON FUCKEN LAND THATS NOT THEIRS! Wtf, where are they getting their permits to build on PALESTINIAN land that's NOT theirs.
They have the right to exist, they have the right to defend themselves against rockets and firebombs. Everybody knows this!
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,771
Kill thousands, destroy infrastructure, cut off boarder entry for food and rebuilding supplies but have a coke and a smile.
Remind people of atrocities (reasonably leading to anger), offer no valuable input or potential solutions (leaving the anger in peoples' minds), but have a coke and smile.
Again, I struggle comprehending how this campaign of post after post of atrocity after atrocity can lead to anything positive for the people whose cause you're attempting to fight for. Do tell me how increased anger and aggression from the people outside of Israel towards Israel and Israelis can lead to change within Israel and Israeli mentalities (the people in the power position). If you can give me a good answer, I'll have no need to keep repeating myself and I'll gladly join you in this campaign.
In all fairness Ben, we are CONSTANTLY reminded every year about the holocaust aren't we not? I remember spending 1 week on the holocaust and only 2 days on the civil war when I was in school. I would think the civil war was way more important to America then the holocaust.
And not for nothing, if we were supposed to learn from the holocaust and "NEVER AGAIN", then why is Israel doing exactly what they said "NEVER AGAIN" to? And Ben, not directing this last paragraph at you. Just sort of making a point.
Nart, I agree with you that we're constantly reminded about the Holocaust. I went to Jewish day school, so I'd have been lucky if it was just one week learning about it. My typical response now when I hear someone talking about the Holocaust is to remind them that a different kind of ethnic cleansing is occurring now by the same people who were once on the other side of the guns, and how this represents the betrayal of the global motion to swear, as you accurately pointed out, "never again". I'm also happy to point out to people the existence of the numerous horrific genocides throughout history (after a visit to Cambodia, that one resonates profoundly with me every single day).
I suppose that the difference for me in the way these discussions here are going, when compared to teaching children about the Holocaust, is the implicit and explicit "so what". "Never again" is the "so what" when it comes to Holocaust education as I see it: it's a campaign to promote young people questioning predetermined societal indoctrinations, to show the significance of not just tolerance but true harmonious coexistence, and to show the necessity of admission of guilt, seeking reparations to injustices, and the strive to always be learning from mistakes.
We've done the first part of this THOROUGHLY here: we've recognized an injustice. But thanks to social media, global news coverage (both grassroots and as delivered through people with hidden or visible agendas), that's the easy part. And maybe this frustrates me so much is because I can't figure out the "so what", but it seems to me that this is the crucial next step, and I see it as a waste of energy to focus on something known, when we know it only catalyzes hatred and not progress (not to mention the redundancy, because this is not news anymore: this is reality for anyone in the region).
Believe me, I want to visit the one secular state of whatever-the-fuck-you-want-to-call-Israel-and-Palestine-together one day. It's that link of logic between "Israelis are cruelly dehumanizing Palestinians and stripping them of critical human rights" and the future dream of "Israelis and Palestinians live harmoniously together with equal rights and opportunities and no concern of sectarian affiliations" that's missing, and we need to seek those actions that will bring about this harmony.
Long memories and a willingness to hold a grudge coupled with bullshit rhetoric will prevent this.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The comparison of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to the Holocaust is ludicrous, and frankly, to my mind, demonstrates how un-moored from reality discussion of Israeli wrongdoing has become. That is not to diminish what Palestinians endure, only to point out that IT IS NOT INDUSTRIAL GENOCIDE. The civil war in Syria, which also doesn't come anywhere close to the scale of the Holocaust, has claimed more lives in 3 years than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has in its entire history. And, to be clear, I am also not trying to insulate the Holocaust as something that is beyond comparison. Cambodia, for example, which left a deep impression on me as well, is a reasonable comparison to make.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,771
The comparison of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to the Holocaust is ludicrous, and frankly, to my mind, demonstrates how un-moored from reality discussion of Israeli wrongdoing has become. That is not to diminish what Palestinians endure, only to point out that IT IS NOT INDUSTRIAL GENOCIDE. The civil war in Syria, which also doesn't come anywhere close to the scale of the Holocaust, has claimed more lives in 3 years than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has in its entire history. And, to be clear, I am also not trying to insulate the Holocaust as something that is beyond comparison. Cambodia, for example, which left a deep impression on me as well, is a reasonable comparison to make.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The comparison of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to the Holocaust is ludicrous, and frankly, to my mind, demonstrates how un-moored from reality discussion of Israeli wrongdoing has become. That is not to diminish what Palestinians endure, only to point out that IT IS NOT INDUSTRIAL GENOCIDE. The civil war in Syria, which also doesn't come anywhere close to the scale of the Holocaust, has claimed more lives in 3 years than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has in its entire history. And, to be clear, I am also not trying to insulate the Holocaust as something that is beyond comparison. Cambodia, for example, which left a deep impression on me as well, is a reasonable comparison to make.
you're comparing a civil war in syria with Israel/Palestine? And Cambodia left a deep impression on you? Well, Palestine leaves a deep impression on the world. Only problem is the fucken US hold the cards and that's why the Palestinians have been suffering at the hands of the Israeli GOVERNMENT for too long.
Question for you yosi, what side does Israel stand on syria? I'm just curious cuz with Assad, you had a decent relationship with syria. But with a new leader, what will happen? I'm pretty sure tho Israel will have last say at who leads syria when that time comes. It's the perks of having America as your bitch.
everyone says that israel is "surrounded by enemies" in the region.
my first thought would be to "stop making enemies", but netanyahu is unable to do that. he is expanding settlements, and he has the blood of thousands of innocent people on his hands with just the last "war"/atrocity with the palestinians. he is the single biggest threat to israel's security, and the people keep voting to keep him in power. that to me says all i need to know about his party and it's supporters.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
have you ever had a guy friend in your group that is always being an ass to other people? a guy that you have to constantly apologize for? a guy you have to make excuses for? a guy you have to constantly "check" to keep him in line? a guy that acts like billy badass because he has a bunch of friends in his group who have his back?
sooner or later there comes a point when the people in the group stop supporting him. one by one they stop apologizing for him. they stop making excuses for him. they stop saying that "he is a good dude, just misunderstood..." they stop putting their reputation on the line to support that guy. they end up saying "fuck that guy. fuck that guy, he is on his own now."
netanyahu is that guy. he is alienating every single one of israel's allies. we had that guy a few years ago. that guy was george w bush. he alienated a lot of our allies. especially germany and france. they said "fuck that guy we are not going along with it."
when is the united states going to say "fuck that guy" to bibi??
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
have you ever had a guy friend in your group that is always being an ass to other people? a guy that you have to constantly apologize for? a guy you have to make excuses for? a guy you have to constantly "check" to keep him in line? a guy that acts like billy badass because he has a bunch of friends in his group who have his back?
sooner or later there comes a point when the people in the group stop supporting him. one by one they stop apologizing for him. they stop making excuses for him. they stop saying that "he is a good dude, just misunderstood..." they stop putting their reputation on the line to support that guy. they end up saying "fuck that guy. fuck that guy, he is on his own now."
netanyahu is that guy. he is alienating every single one of israel's allies. we had that guy a few years ago. that guy was george w bush. he alienated a lot of our allies. especially germany and france. they said "fuck that guy we are not going along with it."
when is the united states going to say "fuck that guy" to bibi??
When we (in the USA) vote for someone with the understanding and balls? To do what is right, and its not right to stand by supporting Israel as it continues its building of illegal settlements and whatever else.
Clinton, Bush, Obama...when we start holding these people accountable for their actions...to truly put their feet on the fire. Then maybe...things will truly start to change.
I love how these so called politicians go to Israel before the election, put on the kippah and pray at the wall. Aren't they white Anglo Protestants? Why are u putting a kippah if you're not Jewish. Shit blows my mind. I don't get it. It's like a right of passage for them.
have you ever had a guy friend in your group that is always being an ass to other people? a guy that you have to constantly apologize for? a guy you have to make excuses for? a guy you have to constantly "check" to keep him in line? a guy that acts like billy badass because he has a bunch of friends in his group who have his back?
sooner or later there comes a point when the people in the group stop supporting him. one by one they stop apologizing for him. they stop making excuses for him. they stop saying that "he is a good dude, just misunderstood..." they stop putting their reputation on the line to support that guy. they end up saying "fuck that guy. fuck that guy, he is on his own now."
netanyahu is that guy. he is alienating every single one of israel's allies. we had that guy a few years ago. that guy was george w bush. he alienated a lot of our allies. especially germany and france. they said "fuck that guy we are not going along with it."
when is the united states going to say "fuck that guy" to bibi??
When we (in the USA) vote for someone with the understanding and balls? To do what is right, and its not right to stand by supporting Israel as it continues its building of illegal settlements and whatever else.
Clinton, Bush, Obama...when we start holding these people accountable for their actions...to truly put their feet on the fire. Then maybe...things will truly start to change.
obama has tried.
because of bibi's constant undermining of kerry's work for a lasting peace, obaba and bibi essentially hate each other at this point. us-israel relations are the lciest they have been in decades.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,279
Kill thousands, destroy infrastructure, cut off boarder entry for food and rebuilding supplies but have a coke and a smile.
Remind people of atrocities (reasonably leading to anger), offer no valuable input or potential solutions (leaving the anger in peoples' minds), but have a coke and smile.
Again, I struggle comprehending how this campaign of post after post of atrocity after atrocity can lead to anything positive for the people whose cause you're attempting to fight for. Do tell me how increased anger and aggression from the people outside of Israel towards Israel and Israelis can lead to change within Israel and Israeli mentalities (the people in the power position). If you can give me a good answer, I'll have no need to keep repeating myself and I'll gladly join you in this campaign.
In all fairness Ben, we are CONSTANTLY reminded every year about the holocaust aren't we not? I remember spending 1 week on the holocaust and only 2 days on the civil war when I was in school. I would think the civil war was way more important to America then the holocaust.
And not for nothing, if we were supposed to learn from the holocaust and "NEVER AGAIN", then why is Israel doing exactly what they said "NEVER AGAIN" to? And Ben, not directing this last paragraph at you. Just sort of making a point.
Nart, I agree with you that we're constantly reminded about the Holocaust. I went to Jewish day school, so I'd have been lucky if it was just one week learning about it. My typical response now when I hear someone talking about the Holocaust is to remind them that a different kind of ethnic cleansing is occurring now by the same people who were once on the other side of the guns, and how this represents the betrayal of the global motion to swear, as you accurately pointed out, "never again". I'm also happy to point out to people the existence of the numerous horrific genocides throughout history (after a visit to Cambodia, that one resonates profoundly with me every single day).
Kill thousands, destroy infrastructure, cut off boarder entry for food and rebuilding supplies but have a coke and a smile.
Remind people of atrocities (reasonably leading to anger), offer no valuable input or potential solutions (leaving the anger in peoples' minds), but have a coke and smile.
Again, I struggle comprehending how this campaign of post after post of atrocity after atrocity can lead to anything positive for the people whose cause you're attempting to fight for. Do tell me how increased anger and aggression from the people outside of Israel towards Israel and Israelis can lead to change within Israel and Israeli mentalities (the people in the power position). If you can give me a good answer, I'll have no need to keep repeating myself and I'll gladly join you in this campaign.
In all fairness Ben, we are CONSTANTLY reminded every year about the holocaust aren't we not? I remember spending 1 week on the holocaust and only 2 days on the civil war when I was in school. I would think the civil war was way more important to America then the holocaust.
And not for nothing, if we were supposed to learn from the holocaust and "NEVER AGAIN", then why is Israel doing exactly what they said "NEVER AGAIN" to? And Ben, not directing this last paragraph at you. Just sort of making a point.
Nart, I agree with you that we're constantly reminded about the Holocaust. I went to Jewish day school, so I'd have been lucky if it was just one week learning about it. My typical response now when I hear someone talking about the Holocaust is to remind them that a different kind of ethnic cleansing is occurring now by the same people who were once on the other side of the guns, and how this represents the betrayal of the global motion to swear, as you accurately pointed out, "never again". I'm also happy to point out to people the existence of the numerous horrific genocides throughout history (after a visit to Cambodia, that one resonates profoundly with me every single day).
Israel has to really think about this cuz Hezbollah isn't Hamas. And it would take Israel to wipe out Lebanon to win that war. But let's hear the Israeli apologist justify this war too. This one would be a shit show no doubt. And if Hillary wins the election, Israel will have carte Blanche to do whatever it wants. But it's gonna cost dearly.
Now if the Palestinians had an event like this, would some "group" bully some "other" group into not allowing this money raised for the Palestinians reach them? Prob end up throwing the "this money is raised for Hamas and rockets!" We cannot allow them to receive this money! And no surprise what "side" of Hollywood supports "what" side in this conflict. Shits getting old, but what's 33.5 million compared to 3-7 BILLION? Unreal.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Kill thousands, destroy infrastructure, cut off boarder entry for food and rebuilding supplies but have a coke and a smile.
Remind people of atrocities (reasonably leading to anger), offer no valuable input or potential solutions (leaving the anger in peoples' minds), but have a coke and smile.
Again, I struggle comprehending how this campaign of post after post of atrocity after atrocity can lead to anything positive for the people whose cause you're attempting to fight for. Do tell me how increased anger and aggression from the people outside of Israel towards Israel and Israelis can lead to change within Israel and Israeli mentalities (the people in the power position). If you can give me a good answer, I'll have no need to keep repeating myself and I'll gladly join you in this campaign.
Awareness is the first step. Nothing wrong with educating everyone.
I just sent this to a member on here privately, so hopefully he or she won't mind me repeating myself here. I owe a public post retreating on what I said (you'll notice I haven't posted any more criticisms on that thread in a few days), because I gave it a lot of thought after seeing some of the feedback that people gave me, and agree with much of it. Namely, it was naive of me to assume that raising awareness of historical and present-day problems of inequality within Israel precludes the search for a solution. I also realized that while I was condemning people for sharing problems instead of solutions from Palestinian supporters, I've yet to see an Israeli supporter on here do anything but that, and in fact whenever someone on here of Israeli descent or allegiance is asked to do so, they don't. So It was completely unfair of me to throw that condemnation in the other direction for something that, you're right, is still progress in a positive direction.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Comments
10/31: A single rocket reportedly landed in Eshkol Regional Council, southern Israel. No injuries or property damaged was caused, and none of the Palestinian factions claimed responsibility. Yet it triggered an indefinite border closure and F16 forays. Gazans suspect a false-flag operation.
10/29: A 27-year-old man identified only by his initials, S. Gh., was seriously injured after being shot in the thigh in Beit Lahiya. He was taken to Kamal Udwan Hospital. An Israeli army spokesman said warning shots were fired because the man “approached the security fence.”
10/28: The Israeli navy targeted Palestinian fishing boats with gunfire offshore the coast of Gaza. No casualties were reported.
10/22: Israeli forces opened fire on two boats carrying seven fishermen. Five fishermen from the Bakr family were taken into custody for questioning and their boat was dragged to an unknown location.
10/16: Israeli boats opened fire at boats belonging to local a fisherman off the coast of Deir al-Balah. The boat belonging to Jamal Abu Watfa was sunk in the attack and he lost consciousness, but was saved from the water.
10/11: A 24-year-old civilian was injured by Israeli fire approximately 300 meters from the border in Beit Lahia.
10/9: Israeli army forces stationed at the Kisovim military post opened fire on Palestinian farmlands in Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip. No injuries were reported.
10/7: Navy ships and a helicopter opened fire close to a number of fishing boats in the al-Waha area, in northwest Gaza, causing damage but no injuries.
9/22: Israeli gunboats opened fire at a Palestinian boat carrying five fishermen off the Al-Zahra shore, southwest of Gaza City. The five men were forced to jump into the water and swim to the Israeli ship, where their hands were bound and they were taken to Ashdod Seaport. They were freed the next day, but their boat was not released.
9/16: A single rocket was fired from Gaza into southern Israel, but was not claimed by any Palestinian faction and no injuries/property damage resulted.
9/9: Israeli naval forces detained two Palestinian fishermen from the Al-Sultan family, Tariq (18) and ‘Issam ‘Abdel Bari Mohammed Bahaa’ Yousif Mohammed (21), just 1.5 miles from the coast of Beit Lahiya in the northern Gaza Strip. Their boat was confiscated and the men were arrested. An hour and a half later, gunned down the fishing boat of two other Al-Sultan brothers - Bahaa’ Yousif Mohammed (25) and Ahmed As’ad Mohammed (22). They too were arrested and their boat was confiscated.
9/3: Israeli gunboats opened fire at Palestinian fishing boats sailing within one nautical mile off the shore of Beit Lahia. Soldiers forced two fishermen, Mohammed Ishaq Mohammed Zayed (18) and Mousa Talal ‘Ata Al-Sultan (24), to jump into the water and swim toward the Israeli gunboat.
10/1: Twelve military vehicles entered Gaza from a gate east of the town of al-Fukhari in the Khan Younis district. The vehicles reportedly crossed some 200 meters into the Strip, and soldiers scanned the area before shooting towards Palestinian farms. Agricultural workers were forced to leave their fields when soldiers shot.
9/29: Rajab Maarouf, a 22-year-old farmer, was shot in the foot in northern Beit Lahiya and taken to Kamal Adwan hospital with moderate injuries.
9/17: Israeli naval forces opened fire off the coast of northern Gaza, moderately injuring fisherman Yousef Zayif, 70.
9/14: An Israeli war ship fired “warning shots” at Palestinian fishermen off the coast of Gaza City’s Al-Shati refugee camp.
9/12: Israeli navy forces opened fire at Palestinian fishermen off the coast of Beit Lahiya to the north.
9/11: Four Israeli bulldozers entered a border area in southern Gaza, near the village of al-Qarara, and leveled private Palestinian land. Military vehicles accompanying the bulldozers fired shots, with no reports of injuries.
9/8: Israeli military fired on fishermen, pushing them back to a five-mile limit.
9/5: Israeli military opened fire on two fishermen and arrested them.
9/2: Israeli military opened fire with machine guns on Gaza fishermen.
Again, I struggle comprehending how this campaign of post after post of atrocity after atrocity can lead to anything positive for the people whose cause you're attempting to fight for. Do tell me how increased anger and aggression from the people outside of Israel towards Israel and Israelis can lead to change within Israel and Israeli mentalities (the people in the power position). If you can give me a good answer, I'll have no need to keep repeating myself and I'll gladly join you in this campaign.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
And not for nothing, if we were supposed to learn from the holocaust and "NEVER AGAIN", then why is Israel doing exactly what they said "NEVER AGAIN" to? And Ben, not directing this last paragraph at you. Just sort of making a point.
I suppose that the difference for me in the way these discussions here are going, when compared to teaching children about the Holocaust, is the implicit and explicit "so what". "Never again" is the "so what" when it comes to Holocaust education as I see it: it's a campaign to promote young people questioning predetermined societal indoctrinations, to show the significance of not just tolerance but true harmonious coexistence, and to show the necessity of admission of guilt, seeking reparations to injustices, and the strive to always be learning from mistakes.
We've done the first part of this THOROUGHLY here: we've recognized an injustice. But thanks to social media, global news coverage (both grassroots and as delivered through people with hidden or visible agendas), that's the easy part. And maybe this frustrates me so much is because I can't figure out the "so what", but it seems to me that this is the crucial next step, and I see it as a waste of energy to focus on something known, when we know it only catalyzes hatred and not progress (not to mention the redundancy, because this is not news anymore: this is reality for anyone in the region).
Believe me, I want to visit the one secular state of whatever-the-fuck-you-want-to-call-Israel-and-Palestine-together one day. It's that link of logic between "Israelis are cruelly dehumanizing Palestinians and stripping them of critical human rights" and the future dream of "Israelis and Palestinians live harmoniously together with equal rights and opportunities and no concern of sectarian affiliations" that's missing, and we need to seek those actions that will bring about this harmony.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=737390
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Question for you yosi, what side does Israel stand on syria? I'm just curious cuz with Assad, you had a decent relationship with syria. But with a new leader, what will happen? I'm pretty sure tho Israel will have last say at who leads syria when that time comes. It's the perks of having America as your bitch.
my first thought would be to "stop making enemies", but netanyahu is unable to do that. he is expanding settlements, and he has the blood of thousands of innocent people on his hands with just the last "war"/atrocity with the palestinians. he is the single biggest threat to israel's security, and the people keep voting to keep him in power. that to me says all i need to know about his party and it's supporters.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
sooner or later there comes a point when the people in the group stop supporting him. one by one they stop apologizing for him. they stop making excuses for him. they stop saying that "he is a good dude, just misunderstood..." they stop putting their reputation on the line to support that guy. they end up saying "fuck that guy. fuck that guy, he is on his own now."
netanyahu is that guy. he is alienating every single one of israel's allies. we had that guy a few years ago. that guy was george w bush. he alienated a lot of our allies. especially germany and france. they said "fuck that guy we are not going along with it."
when is the united states going to say "fuck that guy" to bibi??
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Clinton, Bush, Obama...when we start holding these people accountable for their actions...to truly put their feet on the fire. Then maybe...things will truly start to change.
because of bibi's constant undermining of kerry's work for a lasting peace, obaba and bibi essentially hate each other at this point. us-israel relations are the lciest they have been in decades.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Lebanon again
http://www.jpost.com/International/Star-studded-event-raises-record-33-million-for-IDF-381104
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I owe a public post retreating on what I said (you'll notice I haven't posted any more criticisms on that thread in a few days), because I gave it a lot of thought after seeing some of the feedback that people gave me, and agree with much of it. Namely, it was naive of me to assume that raising awareness of historical and present-day problems of inequality within Israel precludes the search for a solution. I also realized that while I was condemning people for sharing problems instead of solutions from Palestinian supporters, I've yet to see an Israeli supporter on here do anything but that, and in fact whenever someone on here of Israeli descent or allegiance is asked to do so, they don't. So It was completely unfair of me to throw that condemnation in the other direction for something that, you're right, is still progress in a positive direction.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1