How should the world deal with the North Korean threat?

24

Comments

  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,666

    We better get ready for another 40 year Cold War. We had it good for 30+ years, time to live threatened again and toughen up. Back to the you'll hurt me but I will kill you stalemate. Problem is Kim is a threat to Europe too...can the world come together and coordinate an attack that's non nuclear but successful? Or accept we live with this threat.
    A preemptive strike would cause more problems than it would solve.  Besides that, it's difficult to come to gain a consensus among leaders/politicians  in any one country, let alone several.

    This is an interesting possibility:

    "As things stand, neither diplomacy nor sanctions seem likely to derail the North’s nuclear program. So regime change looks more and more attractive. But better that it come from within. Given Kim’s reckless habits—drinking and driving are two of his favorite pastimes—a self-inflicted biological solution is more than possible. So is the chance that an insider will finally get angry enough to take him out, never mind the consequences."

    That, and other options, are discussed here:

    http://time.com/north-korea-opinion/

    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • PJammer4lifePJammer4life Posts: 1,714
    Evil leaders have a way of dying i.e. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Sadaam, Ceausescu, Mussolini...so one can only hope I guess. The world could use a bit of good news rather than thoughts of a nuclear winter.
    Bridge Benefit 1994, San Francisco 1995, San Diego 1995 1 & 2, Missoula 1998, Los Angeles 2000, San Diego 2000, Eddie Vedder/Beck 2/26/2002, Santa Barbara 2003, Irvine 2003, San Diego 2003, Vancouver 2005, Gorge 2005, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006 1 & 2, Santa Barbara 2006, Eddie Vedder 4/10/08, Eddie Vedder 4/12/08, Eddie Vedder 4/15/08, 7/12/2008, SF 8/28/09, LA 9/30/09, LA 10/1/09, LA 10/06/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09, Eddie Vedder 7/6/2011, Eddie Vedder 7/8/2011, PJ20 9/3/2011, PJ20 9/4/2011, Vancouver 9/25/2011, San Diego 11/21/13, LA 11/24/13
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 10,303
    Skinnerian conditioning
    Another option, send in Hans Blix.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009
  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 7,227
    Kim scares me just as much as Trump. From a mental perspective, they're shockingly similar. I worry about our moron in chief escalating things to the point that Kim does act. Some here posted how DNK would be immediately destroyed from us and other powers. What makes you think that he cares about any of his citizens? He's got a nuclear proof bunker. He doesn't care if his country turns into a parking lot. If he cared for his people, he would be working to improve the quality of life for his citizens. He is a mental nut. Just like our guy. They've got themselves in a dick measuring contest with millions of lives on the line. It's something to be concerned about. If you worry about Trump, then you should worry about Kim. If you worry about Kim, then you should worry about Trump. They are one in the same mentally. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,666
    Another option, send in Hans Blix.
    Not bad, but if you're going for diplomacy, go all the way and send in Binx the Talking Cat


    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,666
    Kim scares me just as much as Trump. From a mental perspective, they're shockingly similar. I worry about our moron in chief escalating things to the point that Kim does act. Some here posted how DNK would be immediately destroyed from us and other powers. What makes you think that he cares about any of his citizens? He's got a nuclear proof bunker. He doesn't care if his country turns into a parking lot. If he cared for his people, he would be working to improve the quality of life for his citizens. He is a mental nut. Just like our guy. They've got themselves in a dick measuring contest with millions of lives on the line. It's something to be concerned about. If you worry about Trump, then you should worry about Kim. If you worry about Kim, then you should worry about Trump. They are one in the same mentally. 
    Trump, Kim, Putin.  Give me these guys over them any day:
     



    This evening I asked my wife, who is a very level headed, reasonable woman, if there is any sane place left on earth expecting, of course, for her to tell me with her usual optimism where such places are.  She simply said, "None".    That rocked me back on my heals a bit.  There must be!  The Azores maybe?
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 10,303
    Skinnerian conditioning
    brianlux said:
    Another option, send in Hans Blix.
    Not bad, but if you're going for diplomacy, go all the way and send in Binx the Talking Cat


    Is that cat from some movie or show?
    My reference was to Team America World Police hehe
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 8,255
    JC29856 said:
    Trump:
     I am allowing Japan & South Korea to buy a substantially increased amount of highly sophisticated military equipment from the United States.
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 8,255
    Imagine if Russia engaged in a similar operation over the border in Mexico while the Russian fleet conducted “live fire” drills three miles outside of San Francisco Bay. 

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/09/04/what-the-media-isnt-telling-you-about-north-koreas-missile-tests/
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 2,878
    JC29856 said:
    Imagine if Russia engaged in a similar operation over the border in Mexico while the Russian fleet conducted “live fire” drills three miles outside of San Francisco Bay. 

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/09/04/what-the-media-isnt-telling-you-about-north-koreas-missile-tests/
    You mean like the Cuban missile crisis?  Because that was a thing that actually happened.

    ftfa: "What the media failed to mention was that,  for the last three weeks, Japan, South Korea and the US have been engaged in large-scale joint-military drills on Hokkaido Island and in South Korea."

    WSJ - Aug. 20, 2017

    South Korea and U.S. Begin Drills as North Warns of Rising Tensions
    NYT - AUG. 21, 2017

    U.S. and Japan hold joint military drills
    MSN - 16-08-2017

    US flies bombers, fighters in show of force against N. Korea
    ABC - Aug 31, 2017

    US, Japanese troops begin joint military exercise amid North Korea threat
    Fox - August 10, 2017

    Why do you read news websites that lie to you?  How often do you believe their lies? 
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 8,255
    CM189191 said:
    JC29856 said:
    Imagine if Russia engaged in a similar operation over the border in Mexico while the Russian fleet conducted “live fire” drills three miles outside of San Francisco Bay. 

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/09/04/what-the-media-isnt-telling-you-about-north-koreas-missile-tests/
    You mean like the Cuban missile crisis?  Because that was a thing that actually happened.

    ftfa: "What the media failed to mention was that,  for the last three weeks, Japan, South Korea and the US have been engaged in large-scale joint-military drills on Hokkaido Island and in South Korea."

    WSJ - Aug. 20, 2017

    South Korea and U.S. Begin Drills as North Warns of Rising Tensions
    NYT - AUG. 21, 2017

    U.S. and Japan hold joint military drills
    MSN - 16-08-2017

    US flies bombers, fighters in show of force against N. Korea
    ABC - Aug 31, 2017

    US, Japanese troops begin joint military exercise amid North Korea threat
    Fox - August 10, 2017

    Why do you read news websites that lie to you?  How often do you believe their lies? 

    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,666
    brianlux said:
    Another option, send in Hans Blix.
    Not bad, but if you're going for diplomacy, go all the way and send in Binx the Talking Cat


    Is that cat from some movie or show?
    My reference was to Team America World Police hehe
    From a Halloween movie called Hocus Pocus. :smiley:
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,666
    Not meaning to add to the already hyperbolic fear we seem to be bombarded with over NK these days, but this looks to be a true concern: an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attach by NK:

    "Few people outside the world of nuclear warfare military analysis have pondered electromagnetic pulse (EMP) as a strategic weapon.  It’s well understood and mostly dismissed in battle planning because military forces and command systems are specified to be radiation hardened against EMP.   But North Korea is not a conventional or rational foe.  They have telegraphed that they are preparing to engage in an asymmetric attack; not against the US military or government, but against the American people.

    Their apparent weapon of choice is a high energy nuclear bomb designed to deliver an EMP burst from high altitude over the United States mainland.

    The killing mechanism of such an attack is “elegant”; that’s my Cold War analyst past showing up as an encapsulating term. The EMP burst’s objective is to saturate the US power grid underneath it with energy flowing into the wiring.  The goal is to burn out a portion of the three hundred or so high voltage transformers that link the US together as an industrial age economy.  By burn out, that means causing the melting of the transformer cores rendering them useless.  Repairing such damage is cumbersome. There is only one plant that manufactures these types transformers in the US and it does not even make the biggest ones needed for the US grid backbone.  These have to come from factories in Europe or China and there’s a multi-year backlog for them.

    Prior to North Korea’s announcement that they have developed a hydrogen bomb designed for EMP use, most experts dismissed the danger arguing that North Korea’s weapons were too puny.  This premise has been altered. One should never really underestimate the determination of a fanatical foe.

    The eastern seaboard of the United States is presently the most vulnerable part of the country to such an attack.  It is our oldest electrical grid.   It is highly dependent on an interconnecting network of power generation sources supplying electricity to densely populated metropolises.  The long-haul lines are AC current based, a transmission method that makes them more susceptible to EMP.  And, despite many theory papers having been written on it, minimal investments have been made to harden this grid against man made EMP attack or the natural disaster version of the threat, solar coronal mass ejection (CME).  In strategic warfare planning terms, we are both vulnerable and susceptible to attack.

    Caught unprepared, it may be possible to cut off major sections of the US mainland from electrical service.  This in turn means all utilities infrastructure breaks down as one of the world’s most electricity dependent regions goes dark for up the better part of a decade.  The human survival carrying capacity of these areas will drop dramatically, potentially catastrophically, resulting in suffering and death far beyond what we see in even the worst natural disasters.  Desperation would consume up to one hundred million people scrambling to survive at qualities of life one-tenth of the present.  Entire metropolitan regions and economic centers may/will collapse.  By the time we emerge, the US would not be the same as we know it today.

    Take heart.  All is not lost.  The United States is not defenseless if we must “ride out” a nuclear attack.  Ride out; there’s another Cold War term I had hoped to not have to use again in my lifetime.  But here we are."


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/understanding-north-koreas-emp-threat_us_59ae115de4b0bef3378cdad9



    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 8,663
    Urge China to take intervene
    brianlux said:
    Not meaning to add to the already hyperbolic fear we seem to be bombarded with over NK these days, but this looks to be a true concern: an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attach by NK:

    "Few people outside the world of nuclear warfare military analysis have pondered electromagnetic pulse (EMP) as a strategic weapon.  It’s well understood and mostly dismissed in battle planning because military forces and command systems are specified to be radiation hardened against EMP.   But North Korea is not a conventional or rational foe.  They have telegraphed that they are preparing to engage in an asymmetric attack; not against the US military or government, but against the American people.

    Their apparent weapon of choice is a high energy nuclear bomb designed to deliver an EMP burst from high altitude over the United States mainland.

    The killing mechanism of such an attack is “elegant”; that’s my Cold War analyst past showing up as an encapsulating term. The EMP burst’s objective is to saturate the US power grid underneath it with energy flowing into the wiring.  The goal is to burn out a portion of the three hundred or so high voltage transformers that link the US together as an industrial age economy.  By burn out, that means causing the melting of the transformer cores rendering them useless.  Repairing such damage is cumbersome. There is only one plant that manufactures these types transformers in the US and it does not even make the biggest ones needed for the US grid backbone.  These have to come from factories in Europe or China and there’s a multi-year backlog for them.

    Prior to North Korea’s announcement that they have developed a hydrogen bomb designed for EMP use, most experts dismissed the danger arguing that North Korea’s weapons were too puny.  This premise has been altered. One should never really underestimate the determination of a fanatical foe.

    The eastern seaboard of the United States is presently the most vulnerable part of the country to such an attack.  It is our oldest electrical grid.   It is highly dependent on an interconnecting network of power generation sources supplying electricity to densely populated metropolises.  The long-haul lines are AC current based, a transmission method that makes them more susceptible to EMP.  And, despite many theory papers having been written on it, minimal investments have been made to harden this grid against man made EMP attack or the natural disaster version of the threat, solar coronal mass ejection (CME).  In strategic warfare planning terms, we are both vulnerable and susceptible to attack.

    Caught unprepared, it may be possible to cut off major sections of the US mainland from electrical service.  This in turn means all utilities infrastructure breaks down as one of the world’s most electricity dependent regions goes dark for up the better part of a decade.  The human survival carrying capacity of these areas will drop dramatically, potentially catastrophically, resulting in suffering and death far beyond what we see in even the worst natural disasters.  Desperation would consume up to one hundred million people scrambling to survive at qualities of life one-tenth of the present.  Entire metropolitan regions and economic centers may/will collapse.  By the time we emerge, the US would not be the same as we know it today.

    Take heart.  All is not lost.  The United States is not defenseless if we must “ride out” a nuclear attack.  Ride out; there’s another Cold War term I had hoped to not have to use again in my lifetime.  But here we are."


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/understanding-north-koreas-emp-threat_us_59ae115de4b0bef3378cdad9



    That would make a terrific movie.  It would be a lot less terrific if it's real life.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,666
    brianlux said:
    Not meaning to add to the already hyperbolic fear we seem to be bombarded with over NK these days, but this looks to be a true concern: an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attach by NK:

    "Few people outside the world of nuclear warfare military analysis have pondered electromagnetic pulse (EMP) as a strategic weapon.  It’s well understood and mostly dismissed in battle planning because military forces and command systems are specified to be radiation hardened against EMP.   But North Korea is not a conventional or rational foe.  They have telegraphed that they are preparing to engage in an asymmetric attack; not against the US military or government, but against the American people.

    Their apparent weapon of choice is a high energy nuclear bomb designed to deliver an EMP burst from high altitude over the United States mainland.

    The killing mechanism of such an attack is “elegant”; that’s my Cold War analyst past showing up as an encapsulating term. The EMP burst’s objective is to saturate the US power grid underneath it with energy flowing into the wiring.  The goal is to burn out a portion of the three hundred or so high voltage transformers that link the US together as an industrial age economy.  By burn out, that means causing the melting of the transformer cores rendering them useless.  Repairing such damage is cumbersome. There is only one plant that manufactures these types transformers in the US and it does not even make the biggest ones needed for the US grid backbone.  These have to come from factories in Europe or China and there’s a multi-year backlog for them.

    Prior to North Korea’s announcement that they have developed a hydrogen bomb designed for EMP use, most experts dismissed the danger arguing that North Korea’s weapons were too puny.  This premise has been altered. One should never really underestimate the determination of a fanatical foe.

    The eastern seaboard of the United States is presently the most vulnerable part of the country to such an attack.  It is our oldest electrical grid.   It is highly dependent on an interconnecting network of power generation sources supplying electricity to densely populated metropolises.  The long-haul lines are AC current based, a transmission method that makes them more susceptible to EMP.  And, despite many theory papers having been written on it, minimal investments have been made to harden this grid against man made EMP attack or the natural disaster version of the threat, solar coronal mass ejection (CME).  In strategic warfare planning terms, we are both vulnerable and susceptible to attack.

    Caught unprepared, it may be possible to cut off major sections of the US mainland from electrical service.  This in turn means all utilities infrastructure breaks down as one of the world’s most electricity dependent regions goes dark for up the better part of a decade.  The human survival carrying capacity of these areas will drop dramatically, potentially catastrophically, resulting in suffering and death far beyond what we see in even the worst natural disasters.  Desperation would consume up to one hundred million people scrambling to survive at qualities of life one-tenth of the present.  Entire metropolitan regions and economic centers may/will collapse.  By the time we emerge, the US would not be the same as we know it today.

    Take heart.  All is not lost.  The United States is not defenseless if we must “ride out” a nuclear attack.  Ride out; there’s another Cold War term I had hoped to not have to use again in my lifetime.  But here we are."


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/understanding-north-koreas-emp-threat_us_59ae115de4b0bef3378cdad9



    That would make a terrific movie.  It would be a lot less terrific if it's real life.
    Yeah, what a movie that would make, lol!  But, yeah, the fact that this could really happen is definitely not a joke.  I had never heard of this before.  Some crazy shit out there.
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 1,374
    I've been seeing warnings about EMP attacks and our nation's vulnerability to them for years. (Gun magazines, NRA and outdoors groups.) Until recently, mentioning the possibility of it happening was met with accusations of being a conspiracy nut with a tin foil hat. 

    I really hope it never happens. 

    Now that news sources other than the right-leaning outlets are covering it, preparations can begin to minimize the possibility of it happening or prevent it altogether. 
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 2,878
    dudeman said:
    I've been seeing warnings about EMP attacks and our nation's vulnerability to them for years. (Gun magazines, NRA and outdoors groups.) Until recently, mentioning the possibility of it happening was met with accusations of being a conspiracy nut with a tin foil hat. 

    I really hope it never happens. 

    Now that news sources other than the right-leaning outlets are covering it, preparations can begin to minimize the possibility of it happening or prevent it altogether. 
    I don't know that I've seen any proof of an EMP that works.  I would think the US Military would have developed such a device before North Korea. 
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,666
    CM189191 said:
    dudeman said:
    I've been seeing warnings about EMP attacks and our nation's vulnerability to them for years. (Gun magazines, NRA and outdoors groups.) Until recently, mentioning the possibility of it happening was met with accusations of being a conspiracy nut with a tin foil hat. 

    I really hope it never happens. 

    Now that news sources other than the right-leaning outlets are covering it, preparations can begin to minimize the possibility of it happening or prevent it altogether. 
    I don't know that I've seen any proof of an EMP that works.  I would think the US Military would have developed such a device before North Korea. 
    https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/us-air-force-confirms-boeings-electromagnetic-pulse-weapon/

    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,963
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • donnaruhldonnaruhl Posts: 2,122
    I think there are 9 countries with Nuclear capabilities. Every one of them have a button. Just let North Korea have their nuclear weapons. I can think of other countries that pose a bigger threat than North Korea. Such as China and Russia. Both on each side of North Korea,both in bed with North Korea, And both unwilling to stop North Korea. Because both are supplying North Korea with the technology, and the components. So asking them to do anything, is feudal. And because of the all mighty dollar, We evidently don't have the balls to put sanctions on both China and Russia for their involvement. We all clinch our fists at the president of the Philippines for killing drug addicts, When the United States  is allowing China to do the same thing to our addicts with their legal fentanyl. No different than the Philippines, Just less conspicuous. I say, Roll the fucking dice, and sanction the hell out of both of them. We have a button too.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 5,714
    donnaruhl said:
    I think there are 9 countries with Nuclear capabilities. Every one of them have a button. Just let North Korea have their nuclear weapons. I can think of other countries that pose a bigger threat than North Korea. Such as China and Russia. Both on each side of North Korea,both in bed with North Korea, And both unwilling to stop North Korea. Because both are supplying North Korea with the technology, and the components. So asking them to do anything, is feudal. And because of the all mighty dollar, We evidently don't have the balls to put sanctions on both China and Russia for their involvement. We all clinch our fists at the president of the Philippines for killing drug addicts, When the United States  is allowing China to do the same thing to our addicts with their legal fentanyl. No different than the Philippines, Just less conspicuous. I say, Roll the fucking dice, and sanction the hell out of both of them. We have a button too.
    China can pretty much shut the US economy down if they wanted to, so that would be like trying to guess each number right from tossing a handful of D & D dice. 
  • ShynerShyner Posts: 545
    edited September 12
    In too deep
    Post edited by Shyner on
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,963
    greatest idea ever:
    http://www.businessinsider.com/former-us-navy-seal-solution-to-north-korea-may-work-2017-9

    When Jocko Willink‏, a former US Navy SEAL who is now an author and occasional Business Insider contributor, was asked on Twitter how he would handle the North Korean crisis, he gave an unexpected answer that one expert said just might work.

    Willink's proposal didn't involve any covert special operation strikes or military moves of any kind. Instead of bombs, Willink suggested the US drop iPhones. 

    "Drop 25 million iPhones on them and put satellites over them with free wifi," Willink tweeted last week.

    While the proposal itself is fantastical and far-fetched, Yun Sun, an expert on North Korea at the Stimson Center, says the core concept could work.

    "Kim Jong Un understands that as soon as society is open and North Korean people realize what they're missing, Kim's regime is unsustainable, and it's going to be overthrown," Sun told Business Insider.

    For this reason, North Korea's government would strongly oppose any measures that mirror Willink's suggestion. 

    Sun pointed out that when South Korea had previously flown balloons that dropped pamphlets and DVDs over North Korea, the Kim regime had responded militarily, sensing the frailty of its government relative to those of prosperous liberal democracies.

    For this reason, North Korea would turn down even free iPhones for its entire population, thought to be about 25.2 million.

    Such a measure, Sun said, would also open the West to criticism "for rewarding a illegitimately nuclear dictatorship" that "we know has committed massive human rights against its people."

    And as North Korea puts the Kim regime above all else, any investment or aid would "be exploited first and foremost by the government," Sun said, adding: "We will have to swallow the consequence that of $100 investment, maybe $10 would reach the people."

    North Korea harshly punishes ordinary citizens who are found to enjoy South Korean media, so there's good reason to think providing internet access or devices to North Koreans could get people killed. 

    But in a purely practical sense, the US has few options. War with North Korea could start a nuclear conflict or otherwise introduce a more long-term proliferation risk.

    "They're not going to denuclearize until their regime changes and society changes," Sun said. "This approach may be the longer route, but it has the hope of succeeding."

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,666
    mcgruff10 said:
    greatest idea ever:
    http://www.businessinsider.com/former-us-navy-seal-solution-to-north-korea-may-work-2017-9

    When Jocko Willink‏, a former US Navy SEAL who is now an author and occasional Business Insider contributor, was asked on Twitter how he would handle the North Korean crisis, he gave an unexpected answer that one expert said just might work.

    Willink's proposal didn't involve any covert special operation strikes or military moves of any kind. Instead of bombs, Willink suggested the US drop iPhones. 

    "Drop 25 million iPhones on them and put satellites over them with free wifi," Willink tweeted last week.

    While the proposal itself is fantastical and far-fetched, Yun Sun, an expert on North Korea at the Stimson Center, says the core concept could work.

    "Kim Jong Un understands that as soon as society is open and North Korean people realize what they're missing, Kim's regime is unsustainable, and it's going to be overthrown," Sun told Business Insider.

    For this reason, North Korea's government would strongly oppose any measures that mirror Willink's suggestion. 

    Sun pointed out that when South Korea had previously flown balloons that dropped pamphlets and DVDs over North Korea, the Kim regime had responded militarily, sensing the frailty of its government relative to those of prosperous liberal democracies.

    For this reason, North Korea would turn down even free iPhones for its entire population, thought to be about 25.2 million.

    Such a measure, Sun said, would also open the West to criticism "for rewarding a illegitimately nuclear dictatorship" that "we know has committed massive human rights against its people."

    And as North Korea puts the Kim regime above all else, any investment or aid would "be exploited first and foremost by the government," Sun said, adding: "We will have to swallow the consequence that of $100 investment, maybe $10 would reach the people."

    North Korea harshly punishes ordinary citizens who are found to enjoy South Korean media, so there's good reason to think providing internet access or devices to North Koreans could get people killed. 

    But in a purely practical sense, the US has few options. War with North Korea could start a nuclear conflict or otherwise introduce a more long-term proliferation risk.

    "They're not going to denuclearize until their regime changes and society changes," Sun said. "This approach may be the longer route, but it has the hope of succeeding."

    Brilliant!  I think the risks involved would be worth it.  Yes, some people would be killed or punished for having iPhones and much money would be lost, but compared to the loss of life and money in a war?  No brainer!
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • donnaruhldonnaruhl Posts: 2,122
    donnaruhl said:
    I think there are 9 countries with Nuclear capabilities. Every one of them have a button. Just let North Korea have their nuclear weapons. I can think of other countries that pose a bigger threat than North Korea. Such as China and Russia. Both on each side of North Korea,both in bed with North Korea, And both unwilling to stop North Korea. Because both are supplying North Korea with the technology, and the components. So asking them to do anything, is feudal. And because of the all mighty dollar, We evidently don't have the balls to put sanctions on both China and Russia for their involvement. We all clinch our fists at the president of the Philippines for killing drug addicts, When the United States  is allowing China to do the same thing to our addicts with their legal fentanyl. No different than the Philippines, Just less conspicuous. I say, Roll the fucking dice, and sanction the hell out of both of them. We have a button too.
    China can pretty much shut the US economy down if they wanted to, so that would be like trying to guess each number right from tossing a handful of D & D d
  • donnaruhldonnaruhl Posts: 2,122
    That's the All Mighty Dollar I'm talking about. How is it that the Government say's we're the most powerful, When we're under China's thumb? Like I said, Let the little fucker have his weapons, His track record for solid launches isn't all that good, So I don't think he'll be chancing his own annihilation with a nuclear mishap. And you know, Russia's laughing, Because they know we're in between a rock and a hard spot.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,963
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    greatest idea ever:
    http://www.businessinsider.com/former-us-navy-seal-solution-to-north-korea-may-work-2017-9

    When Jocko Willink‏, a former US Navy SEAL who is now an author and occasional Business Insider contributor, was asked on Twitter how he would handle the North Korean crisis, he gave an unexpected answer that one expert said just might work.

    Willink's proposal didn't involve any covert special operation strikes or military moves of any kind. Instead of bombs, Willink suggested the US drop iPhones. 

    "Drop 25 million iPhones on them and put satellites over them with free wifi," Willink tweeted last week.

    While the proposal itself is fantastical and far-fetched, Yun Sun, an expert on North Korea at the Stimson Center, says the core concept could work.

    "Kim Jong Un understands that as soon as society is open and North Korean people realize what they're missing, Kim's regime is unsustainable, and it's going to be overthrown," Sun told Business Insider.

    For this reason, North Korea's government would strongly oppose any measures that mirror Willink's suggestion. 

    Sun pointed out that when South Korea had previously flown balloons that dropped pamphlets and DVDs over North Korea, the Kim regime had responded militarily, sensing the frailty of its government relative to those of prosperous liberal democracies.

    For this reason, North Korea would turn down even free iPhones for its entire population, thought to be about 25.2 million.

    Such a measure, Sun said, would also open the West to criticism "for rewarding a illegitimately nuclear dictatorship" that "we know has committed massive human rights against its people."

    And as North Korea puts the Kim regime above all else, any investment or aid would "be exploited first and foremost by the government," Sun said, adding: "We will have to swallow the consequence that of $100 investment, maybe $10 would reach the people."

    North Korea harshly punishes ordinary citizens who are found to enjoy South Korean media, so there's good reason to think providing internet access or devices to North Koreans could get people killed. 

    But in a purely practical sense, the US has few options. War with North Korea could start a nuclear conflict or otherwise introduce a more long-term proliferation risk.

    "They're not going to denuclearize until their regime changes and society changes," Sun said. "This approach may be the longer route, but it has the hope of succeeding."

    Brilliant!  I think the risks involved would be worth it.  Yes, some people would be killed or punished for having iPhones and much money would be lost, but compared to the loss of life and money in a war?  No brainer!
    agreed bud!!!  I love this idea!
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 2,806
    mcgruff10 said:
    greatest idea ever:
    http://www.businessinsider.com/former-us-navy-seal-solution-to-north-korea-may-work-2017-9

    When Jocko Willink‏, a former US Navy SEAL who is now an author and occasional Business Insider contributor, was asked on Twitter how he would handle the North Korean crisis, he gave an unexpected answer that one expert said just might work.

    Willink's proposal didn't involve any covert special operation strikes or military moves of any kind. Instead of bombs, Willink suggested the US drop iPhones. 

    "Drop 25 million iPhones on them and put satellites over them with free wifi," Willink tweeted last week.

    While the proposal itself is fantastical and far-fetched, Yun Sun, an expert on North Korea at the Stimson Center, says the core concept could work.

    "Kim Jong Un understands that as soon as society is open and North Korean people realize what they're missing, Kim's regime is unsustainable, and it's going to be overthrown," Sun told Business Insider.

    For this reason, North Korea's government would strongly oppose any measures that mirror Willink's suggestion. 

    Sun pointed out that when South Korea had previously flown balloons that dropped pamphlets and DVDs over North Korea, the Kim regime had responded militarily, sensing the frailty of its government relative to those of prosperous liberal democracies.

    For this reason, North Korea would turn down even free iPhones for its entire population, thought to be about 25.2 million.

    Such a measure, Sun said, would also open the West to criticism "for rewarding a illegitimately nuclear dictatorship" that "we know has committed massive human rights against its people."

    And as North Korea puts the Kim regime above all else, any investment or aid would "be exploited first and foremost by the government," Sun said, adding: "We will have to swallow the consequence that of $100 investment, maybe $10 would reach the people."

    North Korea harshly punishes ordinary citizens who are found to enjoy South Korean media, so there's good reason to think providing internet access or devices to North Koreans could get people killed. 

    But in a purely practical sense, the US has few options. War with North Korea could start a nuclear conflict or otherwise introduce a more long-term proliferation risk.

    "They're not going to denuclearize until their regime changes and society changes," Sun said. "This approach may be the longer route, but it has the hope of succeeding."

    That idea has been around forever,  he isn't the first to say it.

    But don't make it iPhones unless Apple pays for it, but they probably will to get another population locked in to their walled garden of iDiots
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,666
    mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    greatest idea ever:
    http://www.businessinsider.com/former-us-navy-seal-solution-to-north-korea-may-work-2017-9

    When Jocko Willink‏, a former US Navy SEAL who is now an author and occasional Business Insider contributor, was asked on Twitter how he would handle the North Korean crisis, he gave an unexpected answer that one expert said just might work.

    Willink's proposal didn't involve any covert special operation strikes or military moves of any kind. Instead of bombs, Willink suggested the US drop iPhones. 

    "Drop 25 million iPhones on them and put satellites over them with free wifi," Willink tweeted last week.

    While the proposal itself is fantastical and far-fetched, Yun Sun, an expert on North Korea at the Stimson Center, says the core concept could work.

    "Kim Jong Un understands that as soon as society is open and North Korean people realize what they're missing, Kim's regime is unsustainable, and it's going to be overthrown," Sun told Business Insider.

    For this reason, North Korea's government would strongly oppose any measures that mirror Willink's suggestion. 

    Sun pointed out that when South Korea had previously flown balloons that dropped pamphlets and DVDs over North Korea, the Kim regime had responded militarily, sensing the frailty of its government relative to those of prosperous liberal democracies.

    For this reason, North Korea would turn down even free iPhones for its entire population, thought to be about 25.2 million.

    Such a measure, Sun said, would also open the West to criticism "for rewarding a illegitimately nuclear dictatorship" that "we know has committed massive human rights against its people."

    And as North Korea puts the Kim regime above all else, any investment or aid would "be exploited first and foremost by the government," Sun said, adding: "We will have to swallow the consequence that of $100 investment, maybe $10 would reach the people."

    North Korea harshly punishes ordinary citizens who are found to enjoy South Korean media, so there's good reason to think providing internet access or devices to North Koreans could get people killed. 

    But in a purely practical sense, the US has few options. War with North Korea could start a nuclear conflict or otherwise introduce a more long-term proliferation risk.

    "They're not going to denuclearize until their regime changes and society changes," Sun said. "This approach may be the longer route, but it has the hope of succeeding."

    Brilliant!  I think the risks involved would be worth it.  Yes, some people would be killed or punished for having iPhones and much money would be lost, but compared to the loss of life and money in a war?  No brainer!
    agreed bud!!!  I love this idea!
    Cool!  And maybe pre-load them with some good music and  hope someday we could hear there's as well (not an original idea- Henry Rollins proposed this as a way of making peace in the middle east- share music and culture!)
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
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