We better get ready for another 40 year Cold War. We had it good for 30+ years, time to live threatened again and toughen up. Back to the you'll hurt me but I will kill you stalemate. Problem is Kim is a threat to Europe too...can the world come together and coordinate an attack that's non nuclear but successful? Or accept we live with this threat.
A preemptive strike would cause more problems than it would solve. Besides that, it's difficult to come to gain a consensus among leaders/politicians in any one country, let alone several.
This is an interesting possibility:
"As things stand, neither diplomacy nor sanctions seem likely to derail
the North’s nuclear program. So regime change looks more and more
attractive. But better that it come from within. Given Kim’s reckless
habits—drinking and driving are two of his favorite pastimes—a
self-inflicted biological solution is more than possible. So is the
chance that an insider will finally get angry enough to take him out,
never mind the consequences."
Evil leaders have a way of dying i.e. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Sadaam, Ceausescu, Mussolini...so one can only hope I guess. The world could use a bit of good news rather than thoughts of a nuclear winter.
Bridge Benefit 1994, San Francisco 1995, San Diego 1995 1 & 2, Missoula 1998, Los Angeles 2000, San Diego 2000, Eddie Vedder/Beck 2/26/2002, Santa Barbara 2003, Irvine 2003, San Diego 2003, Vancouver 2005, Gorge 2005, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006 1 & 2, Santa Barbara 2006, Eddie Vedder 4/10/08, Eddie Vedder 4/12/08, Eddie Vedder 4/15/08, 7/12/2008, SF 8/28/09, LA 9/30/09, LA 10/1/09, LA 10/06/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09, Eddie Vedder 7/6/2011, Eddie Vedder 7/8/2011, PJ20 9/3/2011, PJ20 9/4/2011, Vancouver 9/25/2011, San Diego 11/21/13, LA 11/24/13, Ohana 9/25/21, Ohana 9/26/21, Ohana 10/1/21, EV 2/17/22, LA Forum 5/6/22, LA Forum 5/7/22, EV 10/1/22, EV 9/30/23
Kim scares me just as much as Trump. From a mental perspective, they're shockingly similar. I worry about our moron in chief escalating things to the point that Kim does act. Some here posted how DNK would be immediately destroyed from us and other powers. What makes you think that he cares about any of his citizens? He's got a nuclear proof bunker. He doesn't care if his country turns into a parking lot. If he cared for his people, he would be working to improve the quality of life for his citizens. He is a mental nut. Just like our guy. They've got themselves in a dick measuring contest with millions of lives on the line. It's something to be concerned about. If you worry about Trump, then you should worry about Kim. If you worry about Kim, then you should worry about Trump. They are one in the same mentally.
Kim scares me just as much as Trump. From a mental perspective, they're shockingly similar. I worry about our moron in chief escalating things to the point that Kim does act. Some here posted how DNK would be immediately destroyed from us and other powers. What makes you think that he cares about any of his citizens? He's got a nuclear proof bunker. He doesn't care if his country turns into a parking lot. If he cared for his people, he would be working to improve the quality of life for his citizens. He is a mental nut. Just like our guy. They've got themselves in a dick measuring contest with millions of lives on the line. It's something to be concerned about. If you worry about Trump, then you should worry about Kim. If you worry about Kim, then you should worry about Trump. They are one in the same mentally.
Trump, Kim, Putin. Give me these guys over them any day:
This evening I asked my wife, who is a very level headed, reasonable woman, if there is any sane place left on earth expecting, of course, for her to tell me with her usual optimism where such places are. She simply said, "None". That rocked me back on my heals a bit. There must be! The Azores maybe?
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Imagine if Russia engaged in a similar operation over the border in Mexico while the Russian fleet conducted “live fire” drills three miles outside of San Francisco Bay.
Imagine if Russia engaged in a similar operation over the border in Mexico while the Russian fleet conducted “live fire” drills three miles outside of San Francisco Bay.
You mean like the Cuban missile crisis? Because that was a thing that actually happened.
ftfa: "What the media failed to mention was that, for the last three weeks, Japan, South Korea and the US have been engaged in large-scale joint-military drills on Hokkaido Island and in South Korea."
Imagine if Russia engaged in a similar operation over the border in Mexico while the Russian fleet conducted “live fire” drills three miles outside of San Francisco Bay.
You mean like the Cuban missile crisis? Because that was a thing that actually happened.
ftfa: "What the media failed to mention was that, for the last three weeks, Japan, South Korea and the US have been engaged in large-scale joint-military drills on Hokkaido Island and in South Korea."
Not bad, but if you're going for diplomacy, go all the way and send in Binx the Talking Cat
Is that cat from some movie or show? My reference was to Team America World Police hehe
From a Halloween movie called Hocus Pocus.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Try to not spook the horse."
-Neil Young
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,319
Not meaning to add to the already hyperbolic fear we seem to be bombarded with over NK these days, but this looks to be a true concern: an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attach by NK:
"Few
people outside the world of nuclear warfare military analysis have
pondered electromagnetic pulse (EMP) as a strategic weapon. It’s well
understood and mostly dismissed in battle planning because military
forces and command systems are specified to be radiation hardened
against EMP. But North Korea is not a conventional or rational foe.
They have telegraphed that they are preparing to engage in an asymmetric
attack; not against the US military or government, but against the
American people.
Their
apparent weapon of choice is a high energy nuclear bomb designed to
deliver an EMP burst from high altitude over the United States mainland.
The
killing mechanism of such an attack is “elegant”; that’s my Cold War
analyst past showing up as an encapsulating term. The EMP burst’s
objective is to saturate the US power grid underneath it with energy
flowing into the wiring. The goal is to burn out a portion of the three
hundred or so high voltage transformers that link the US together as an
industrial age economy. By burn out, that means causing the melting of
the transformer cores rendering them useless. Repairing such damage is
cumbersome. There is only one plant that manufactures these types
transformers in the US and it does not even make the biggest ones needed
for the US grid backbone. These have to come from factories in Europe
or China and there’s a multi-year backlog for them.
Prior
to North Korea’s announcement that they have developed a hydrogen bomb
designed for EMP use, most experts dismissed the danger arguing that
North Korea’s weapons were too puny. This premise has been altered. One
should never really underestimate the determination of a fanatical foe.
The
eastern seaboard of the United States is presently the most vulnerable
part of the country to such an attack. It is our oldest electrical
grid. It is highly dependent on an interconnecting network of power
generation sources supplying electricity to densely populated
metropolises. The long-haul lines are AC current based, a transmission
method that makes them more susceptible to EMP. And, despite many
theory papers having been written on it, minimal investments have been
made to harden this grid against man made EMP attack or the natural
disaster version of the threat, solar coronal mass ejection (CME). In
strategic warfare planning terms, we are both vulnerable and susceptible
to attack.
Caught
unprepared, it may be possible to cut off major sections of the US
mainland from electrical service. This in turn means all utilities
infrastructure breaks down as one of the world’s most electricity
dependent regions goes dark for up the better part of a decade. The
human survival carrying capacity of these areas will drop dramatically,
potentially catastrophically, resulting in suffering and death far
beyond what we see in even the worst natural disasters. Desperation
would consume up to one hundred million people scrambling to survive at
qualities of life one-tenth of the present. Entire metropolitan regions
and economic centers may/will collapse. By the time we emerge, the US
would not be the same as we know it today.
Take
heart. All is not lost. The United States is not defenseless if we
must “ride out” a nuclear attack. Ride out; there’s another Cold War
term I had hoped to not have to use again in my lifetime. But here we
are."
Not meaning to add to the already hyperbolic fear we seem to be bombarded with over NK these days, but this looks to be a true concern: an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attach by NK:
"Few
people outside the world of nuclear warfare military analysis have
pondered electromagnetic pulse (EMP) as a strategic weapon. It’s well
understood and mostly dismissed in battle planning because military
forces and command systems are specified to be radiation hardened
against EMP. But North Korea is not a conventional or rational foe.
They have telegraphed that they are preparing to engage in an asymmetric
attack; not against the US military or government, but against the
American people.
Their
apparent weapon of choice is a high energy nuclear bomb designed to
deliver an EMP burst from high altitude over the United States mainland.
The
killing mechanism of such an attack is “elegant”; that’s my Cold War
analyst past showing up as an encapsulating term. The EMP burst’s
objective is to saturate the US power grid underneath it with energy
flowing into the wiring. The goal is to burn out a portion of the three
hundred or so high voltage transformers that link the US together as an
industrial age economy. By burn out, that means causing the melting of
the transformer cores rendering them useless. Repairing such damage is
cumbersome. There is only one plant that manufactures these types
transformers in the US and it does not even make the biggest ones needed
for the US grid backbone. These have to come from factories in Europe
or China and there’s a multi-year backlog for them.
Prior
to North Korea’s announcement that they have developed a hydrogen bomb
designed for EMP use, most experts dismissed the danger arguing that
North Korea’s weapons were too puny. This premise has been altered. One
should never really underestimate the determination of a fanatical foe.
The
eastern seaboard of the United States is presently the most vulnerable
part of the country to such an attack. It is our oldest electrical
grid. It is highly dependent on an interconnecting network of power
generation sources supplying electricity to densely populated
metropolises. The long-haul lines are AC current based, a transmission
method that makes them more susceptible to EMP. And, despite many
theory papers having been written on it, minimal investments have been
made to harden this grid against man made EMP attack or the natural
disaster version of the threat, solar coronal mass ejection (CME). In
strategic warfare planning terms, we are both vulnerable and susceptible
to attack.
Caught
unprepared, it may be possible to cut off major sections of the US
mainland from electrical service. This in turn means all utilities
infrastructure breaks down as one of the world’s most electricity
dependent regions goes dark for up the better part of a decade. The
human survival carrying capacity of these areas will drop dramatically,
potentially catastrophically, resulting in suffering and death far
beyond what we see in even the worst natural disasters. Desperation
would consume up to one hundred million people scrambling to survive at
qualities of life one-tenth of the present. Entire metropolitan regions
and economic centers may/will collapse. By the time we emerge, the US
would not be the same as we know it today.
Take
heart. All is not lost. The United States is not defenseless if we
must “ride out” a nuclear attack. Ride out; there’s another Cold War
term I had hoped to not have to use again in my lifetime. But here we
are."
Not meaning to add to the already hyperbolic fear we seem to be bombarded with over NK these days, but this looks to be a true concern: an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attach by NK:
"Few
people outside the world of nuclear warfare military analysis have
pondered electromagnetic pulse (EMP) as a strategic weapon. It’s well
understood and mostly dismissed in battle planning because military
forces and command systems are specified to be radiation hardened
against EMP. But North Korea is not a conventional or rational foe.
They have telegraphed that they are preparing to engage in an asymmetric
attack; not against the US military or government, but against the
American people.
Their
apparent weapon of choice is a high energy nuclear bomb designed to
deliver an EMP burst from high altitude over the United States mainland.
The
killing mechanism of such an attack is “elegant”; that’s my Cold War
analyst past showing up as an encapsulating term. The EMP burst’s
objective is to saturate the US power grid underneath it with energy
flowing into the wiring. The goal is to burn out a portion of the three
hundred or so high voltage transformers that link the US together as an
industrial age economy. By burn out, that means causing the melting of
the transformer cores rendering them useless. Repairing such damage is
cumbersome. There is only one plant that manufactures these types
transformers in the US and it does not even make the biggest ones needed
for the US grid backbone. These have to come from factories in Europe
or China and there’s a multi-year backlog for them.
Prior
to North Korea’s announcement that they have developed a hydrogen bomb
designed for EMP use, most experts dismissed the danger arguing that
North Korea’s weapons were too puny. This premise has been altered. One
should never really underestimate the determination of a fanatical foe.
The
eastern seaboard of the United States is presently the most vulnerable
part of the country to such an attack. It is our oldest electrical
grid. It is highly dependent on an interconnecting network of power
generation sources supplying electricity to densely populated
metropolises. The long-haul lines are AC current based, a transmission
method that makes them more susceptible to EMP. And, despite many
theory papers having been written on it, minimal investments have been
made to harden this grid against man made EMP attack or the natural
disaster version of the threat, solar coronal mass ejection (CME). In
strategic warfare planning terms, we are both vulnerable and susceptible
to attack.
Caught
unprepared, it may be possible to cut off major sections of the US
mainland from electrical service. This in turn means all utilities
infrastructure breaks down as one of the world’s most electricity
dependent regions goes dark for up the better part of a decade. The
human survival carrying capacity of these areas will drop dramatically,
potentially catastrophically, resulting in suffering and death far
beyond what we see in even the worst natural disasters. Desperation
would consume up to one hundred million people scrambling to survive at
qualities of life one-tenth of the present. Entire metropolitan regions
and economic centers may/will collapse. By the time we emerge, the US
would not be the same as we know it today.
Take
heart. All is not lost. The United States is not defenseless if we
must “ride out” a nuclear attack. Ride out; there’s another Cold War
term I had hoped to not have to use again in my lifetime. But here we
are."
That would make a terrific movie. It would be a lot less terrific if it's real life.
Yeah, what a movie that would make, lol! But, yeah, the fact that this could really happen is definitely not a joke. I had never heard of this before. Some crazy shit out there.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I've been seeing warnings about EMP attacks and our nation's vulnerability to them for years. (Gun magazines, NRA and outdoors groups.) Until recently, mentioning the possibility of it happening was met with accusations of being a conspiracy nut with a tin foil hat.
I really hope it never happens.
Now that news sources other than the right-leaning outlets are covering it, preparations can begin to minimize the possibility of it happening or prevent it altogether.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
I've been seeing warnings about EMP attacks and our nation's vulnerability to them for years. (Gun magazines, NRA and outdoors groups.) Until recently, mentioning the possibility of it happening was met with accusations of being a conspiracy nut with a tin foil hat.
I really hope it never happens.
Now that news sources other than the right-leaning outlets are covering it, preparations can begin to minimize the possibility of it happening or prevent it altogether.
I don't know that I've seen any proof of an EMP that works. I would think the US Military would have developed such a device before North Korea.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,319
I've been seeing warnings about EMP attacks and our nation's vulnerability to them for years. (Gun magazines, NRA and outdoors groups.) Until recently, mentioning the possibility of it happening was met with accusations of being a conspiracy nut with a tin foil hat.
I really hope it never happens.
Now that news sources other than the right-leaning outlets are covering it, preparations can begin to minimize the possibility of it happening or prevent it altogether.
I don't know that I've seen any proof of an EMP that works. I would think the US Military would have developed such a device before North Korea.
I think there are 9 countries with Nuclear capabilities. Every one of them have a button. Just let North Korea have their nuclear weapons. I can think of other countries that pose a bigger threat than North Korea. Such as China and Russia. Both on each side of North Korea,both in bed with North Korea, And both unwilling to stop North Korea. Because both are supplying North Korea with the technology, and the components. So asking them to do anything, is feudal. And because of the all mighty dollar, We evidently don't have the balls to put sanctions on both China and Russia for their involvement. We all clinch our fists at the president of the Philippines for killing drug addicts, When the United States is allowing China to do the same thing to our addicts with their legal fentanyl. No different than the Philippines, Just less conspicuous. I say, Roll the fucking dice, and sanction the hell out of both of them. We have a button too.
I think there are 9 countries with Nuclear capabilities. Every one of them have a button. Just let North Korea have their nuclear weapons. I can think of other countries that pose a bigger threat than North Korea. Such as China and Russia. Both on each side of North Korea,both in bed with North Korea, And both unwilling to stop North Korea. Because both are supplying North Korea with the technology, and the components. So asking them to do anything, is feudal. And because of the all mighty dollar, We evidently don't have the balls to put sanctions on both China and Russia for their involvement. We all clinch our fists at the president of the Philippines for killing drug addicts, When the United States is allowing China to do the same thing to our addicts with their legal fentanyl. No different than the Philippines, Just less conspicuous. I say, Roll the fucking dice, and sanction the hell out of both of them. We have a button too.
China can pretty much shut the US economy down if they wanted to, so that would be like trying to guess each number right from tossing a handful of D & D dice.
When Jocko Willink, a former US Navy SEAL who is now an author and occasional Business Insider contributor, was asked on Twitter how he would handle the North Korean crisis, he gave an unexpected answer that one expert said just might work.
Willink's proposal didn't involve any covert special operation strikes or military moves of any kind. Instead of bombs, Willink suggested the US drop iPhones.
"Drop 25 million iPhones on them and put satellites over them with free wifi," Willink tweeted last week.
While the proposal itself is fantastical and far-fetched, Yun Sun, an expert on North Korea at the Stimson Center, says the core concept could work.
"Kim Jong Un understands that as soon as society is open and North Korean people realize what they're missing, Kim's regime is unsustainable, and it's going to be overthrown," Sun told Business Insider.
For this reason, North Korea's government would strongly oppose any measures that mirror Willink's suggestion.
Sun pointed out that when South Korea had previously flown balloons that dropped pamphlets and DVDs over North Korea, the Kim regime had responded militarily, sensing the frailty of its government relative to those of prosperous liberal democracies.
For this reason, North Korea would turn down even free iPhones for its entire population, thought to be about 25.2 million.
Such a measure, Sun said, would also open the West to criticism "for rewarding a illegitimately nuclear dictatorship" that "we know has committed massive human rights against its people."
And as North Korea puts the Kim regime above all else, any investment or aid would "be exploited first and foremost by the government," Sun said, adding: "We will have to swallow the consequence that of $100 investment, maybe $10 would reach the people."
North Korea harshly punishes ordinary citizens who are found to enjoy South Korean media, so there's good reason to think providing internet access or devices to North Koreans could get people killed.
"They're not going to denuclearize until their regime changes and society changes," Sun said. "This approach may be the longer route, but it has the hope of succeeding."
I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,319
When Jocko Willink, a former US Navy SEAL who is now an author and occasional Business Insider contributor, was asked on Twitter how he would handle the North Korean crisis, he gave an unexpected answer that one expert said just might work.
Willink's proposal didn't involve any covert special operation strikes or military moves of any kind. Instead of bombs, Willink suggested the US drop iPhones.
"Drop 25 million iPhones on them and put satellites over them with free wifi," Willink tweeted last week.
While the proposal itself is fantastical and far-fetched, Yun Sun, an expert on North Korea at the Stimson Center, says the core concept could work.
"Kim Jong Un understands that as soon as society is open and North Korean people realize what they're missing, Kim's regime is unsustainable, and it's going to be overthrown," Sun told Business Insider.
For this reason, North Korea's government would strongly oppose any measures that mirror Willink's suggestion.
Sun pointed out that when South Korea had previously flown balloons that dropped pamphlets and DVDs over North Korea, the Kim regime had responded militarily, sensing the frailty of its government relative to those of prosperous liberal democracies.
For this reason, North Korea would turn down even free iPhones for its entire population, thought to be about 25.2 million.
Such a measure, Sun said, would also open the West to criticism "for rewarding a illegitimately nuclear dictatorship" that "we know has committed massive human rights against its people."
And as North Korea puts the Kim regime above all else, any investment or aid would "be exploited first and foremost by the government," Sun said, adding: "We will have to swallow the consequence that of $100 investment, maybe $10 would reach the people."
North Korea harshly punishes ordinary citizens who are found to enjoy South Korean media, so there's good reason to think providing internet access or devices to North Koreans could get people killed.
"They're not going to denuclearize until their regime changes and society changes," Sun said. "This approach may be the longer route, but it has the hope of succeeding."
Brilliant! I think the risks involved would be worth it. Yes, some people would be killed or punished for having iPhones and much money would be lost, but compared to the loss of life and money in a war? No brainer!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I think there are 9 countries with Nuclear capabilities. Every one of them have a button. Just let North Korea have their nuclear weapons. I can think of other countries that pose a bigger threat than North Korea. Such as China and Russia. Both on each side of North Korea,both in bed with North Korea, And both unwilling to stop North Korea. Because both are supplying North Korea with the technology, and the components. So asking them to do anything, is feudal. And because of the all mighty dollar, We evidently don't have the balls to put sanctions on both China and Russia for their involvement. We all clinch our fists at the president of the Philippines for killing drug addicts, When the United States is allowing China to do the same thing to our addicts with their legal fentanyl. No different than the Philippines, Just less conspicuous. I say, Roll the fucking dice, and sanction the hell out of both of them. We have a button too.
China can pretty much shut the US economy down if they wanted to, so that would be like trying to guess each number right from tossing a handful of D & D d
That's the All Mighty Dollar I'm talking about. How is it that the Government say's we're the most powerful, When we're under China's thumb? Like I said, Let the little fucker have his weapons, His track record for solid launches isn't all that good, So I don't think he'll be chancing his own annihilation with a nuclear mishap. And you know, Russia's laughing, Because they know we're in between a rock and a hard spot.
When Jocko Willink, a former US Navy SEAL who is now an author and occasional Business Insider contributor, was asked on Twitter how he would handle the North Korean crisis, he gave an unexpected answer that one expert said just might work.
Willink's proposal didn't involve any covert special operation strikes or military moves of any kind. Instead of bombs, Willink suggested the US drop iPhones.
"Drop 25 million iPhones on them and put satellites over them with free wifi," Willink tweeted last week.
While the proposal itself is fantastical and far-fetched, Yun Sun, an expert on North Korea at the Stimson Center, says the core concept could work.
"Kim Jong Un understands that as soon as society is open and North Korean people realize what they're missing, Kim's regime is unsustainable, and it's going to be overthrown," Sun told Business Insider.
For this reason, North Korea's government would strongly oppose any measures that mirror Willink's suggestion.
Sun pointed out that when South Korea had previously flown balloons that dropped pamphlets and DVDs over North Korea, the Kim regime had responded militarily, sensing the frailty of its government relative to those of prosperous liberal democracies.
For this reason, North Korea would turn down even free iPhones for its entire population, thought to be about 25.2 million.
Such a measure, Sun said, would also open the West to criticism "for rewarding a illegitimately nuclear dictatorship" that "we know has committed massive human rights against its people."
And as North Korea puts the Kim regime above all else, any investment or aid would "be exploited first and foremost by the government," Sun said, adding: "We will have to swallow the consequence that of $100 investment, maybe $10 would reach the people."
North Korea harshly punishes ordinary citizens who are found to enjoy South Korean media, so there's good reason to think providing internet access or devices to North Koreans could get people killed.
"They're not going to denuclearize until their regime changes and society changes," Sun said. "This approach may be the longer route, but it has the hope of succeeding."
Brilliant! I think the risks involved would be worth it. Yes, some people would be killed or punished for having iPhones and much money would be lost, but compared to the loss of life and money in a war? No brainer!
When Jocko Willink, a former US Navy SEAL who is now an author and occasional Business Insider contributor, was asked on Twitter how he would handle the North Korean crisis, he gave an unexpected answer that one expert said just might work.
Willink's proposal didn't involve any covert special operation strikes or military moves of any kind. Instead of bombs, Willink suggested the US drop iPhones.
"Drop 25 million iPhones on them and put satellites over them with free wifi," Willink tweeted last week.
While the proposal itself is fantastical and far-fetched, Yun Sun, an expert on North Korea at the Stimson Center, says the core concept could work.
"Kim Jong Un understands that as soon as society is open and North Korean people realize what they're missing, Kim's regime is unsustainable, and it's going to be overthrown," Sun told Business Insider.
For this reason, North Korea's government would strongly oppose any measures that mirror Willink's suggestion.
Sun pointed out that when South Korea had previously flown balloons that dropped pamphlets and DVDs over North Korea, the Kim regime had responded militarily, sensing the frailty of its government relative to those of prosperous liberal democracies.
For this reason, North Korea would turn down even free iPhones for its entire population, thought to be about 25.2 million.
Such a measure, Sun said, would also open the West to criticism "for rewarding a illegitimately nuclear dictatorship" that "we know has committed massive human rights against its people."
And as North Korea puts the Kim regime above all else, any investment or aid would "be exploited first and foremost by the government," Sun said, adding: "We will have to swallow the consequence that of $100 investment, maybe $10 would reach the people."
North Korea harshly punishes ordinary citizens who are found to enjoy South Korean media, so there's good reason to think providing internet access or devices to North Koreans could get people killed.
"They're not going to denuclearize until their regime changes and society changes," Sun said. "This approach may be the longer route, but it has the hope of succeeding."
That idea has been around forever, he isn't the first to say it.
But don't make it iPhones unless Apple pays for it, but they probably will to get another population locked in to their walled garden of iDiots
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,319
When Jocko Willink, a former US Navy SEAL who is now an author and occasional Business Insider contributor, was asked on Twitter how he would handle the North Korean crisis, he gave an unexpected answer that one expert said just might work.
Willink's proposal didn't involve any covert special operation strikes or military moves of any kind. Instead of bombs, Willink suggested the US drop iPhones.
"Drop 25 million iPhones on them and put satellites over them with free wifi," Willink tweeted last week.
While the proposal itself is fantastical and far-fetched, Yun Sun, an expert on North Korea at the Stimson Center, says the core concept could work.
"Kim Jong Un understands that as soon as society is open and North Korean people realize what they're missing, Kim's regime is unsustainable, and it's going to be overthrown," Sun told Business Insider.
For this reason, North Korea's government would strongly oppose any measures that mirror Willink's suggestion.
Sun pointed out that when South Korea had previously flown balloons that dropped pamphlets and DVDs over North Korea, the Kim regime had responded militarily, sensing the frailty of its government relative to those of prosperous liberal democracies.
For this reason, North Korea would turn down even free iPhones for its entire population, thought to be about 25.2 million.
Such a measure, Sun said, would also open the West to criticism "for rewarding a illegitimately nuclear dictatorship" that "we know has committed massive human rights against its people."
And as North Korea puts the Kim regime above all else, any investment or aid would "be exploited first and foremost by the government," Sun said, adding: "We will have to swallow the consequence that of $100 investment, maybe $10 would reach the people."
North Korea harshly punishes ordinary citizens who are found to enjoy South Korean media, so there's good reason to think providing internet access or devices to North Koreans could get people killed.
"They're not going to denuclearize until their regime changes and society changes," Sun said. "This approach may be the longer route, but it has the hope of succeeding."
Brilliant! I think the risks involved would be worth it. Yes, some people would be killed or punished for having iPhones and much money would be lost, but compared to the loss of life and money in a war? No brainer!
agreed bud!!! I love this idea!
Cool! And maybe pre-load them with some good music and hope someday we could hear there's as well (not an original idea- Henry Rollins proposed this as a way of making peace in the middle east- share music and culture!)
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Comments
A preemptive strike would cause more problems than it would solve. Besides that, it's difficult to come to gain a consensus among leaders/politicians in any one country, let alone several.
This is an interesting possibility:
"As things stand, neither diplomacy nor sanctions seem likely to derail the North’s nuclear program. So regime change looks more and more attractive. But better that it come from within. Given Kim’s reckless habits—drinking and driving are two of his favorite pastimes—a self-inflicted biological solution is more than possible. So is the chance that an insider will finally get angry enough to take him out, never mind the consequences."
That, and other options, are discussed here:
http://time.com/north-korea-opinion/
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
This evening I asked my wife, who is a very level headed, reasonable woman, if there is any sane place left on earth expecting, of course, for her to tell me with her usual optimism where such places are. She simply said, "None". That rocked me back on my heals a bit. There must be! The Azores maybe?
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
My reference was to Team America World Police hehe
I am allowing Japan & South Korea to buy a substantially increased amount of highly sophisticated military equipment from the United States.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/09/04/what-the-media-isnt-telling-you-about-north-koreas-missile-tests/
ftfa: "What the media failed to mention was that, for the last three weeks, Japan, South Korea and the US have been engaged in large-scale joint-military drills on Hokkaido Island and in South Korea."
War Games Begin as U.S., South Korea Brace for North’s FuryWSJ - Aug. 20, 2017
South Korea and U.S. Begin Drills as North Warns of Rising Tensions
U.S. and Japan hold joint military drills
US flies bombers, fighters in show of force against N. Korea
ABC - Aug 31, 2017
US, Japanese troops begin joint military exercise amid North Korea threat
Fox - August 10, 2017
Why do you read news websites that lie to you? How often do you believe their lies?
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Few people outside the world of nuclear warfare military analysis have pondered electromagnetic pulse (EMP) as a strategic weapon. It’s well understood and mostly dismissed in battle planning because military forces and command systems are specified to be radiation hardened against EMP. But North Korea is not a conventional or rational foe. They have telegraphed that they are preparing to engage in an asymmetric attack; not against the US military or government, but against the American people.
Their apparent weapon of choice is a high energy nuclear bomb designed to deliver an EMP burst from high altitude over the United States mainland.
The killing mechanism of such an attack is “elegant”; that’s my Cold War analyst past showing up as an encapsulating term. The EMP burst’s objective is to saturate the US power grid underneath it with energy flowing into the wiring. The goal is to burn out a portion of the three hundred or so high voltage transformers that link the US together as an industrial age economy. By burn out, that means causing the melting of the transformer cores rendering them useless. Repairing such damage is cumbersome. There is only one plant that manufactures these types transformers in the US and it does not even make the biggest ones needed for the US grid backbone. These have to come from factories in Europe or China and there’s a multi-year backlog for them.
Prior to North Korea’s announcement that they have developed a hydrogen bomb designed for EMP use, most experts dismissed the danger arguing that North Korea’s weapons were too puny. This premise has been altered. One should never really underestimate the determination of a fanatical foe.
The eastern seaboard of the United States is presently the most vulnerable part of the country to such an attack. It is our oldest electrical grid. It is highly dependent on an interconnecting network of power generation sources supplying electricity to densely populated metropolises. The long-haul lines are AC current based, a transmission method that makes them more susceptible to EMP. And, despite many theory papers having been written on it, minimal investments have been made to harden this grid against man made EMP attack or the natural disaster version of the threat, solar coronal mass ejection (CME). In strategic warfare planning terms, we are both vulnerable and susceptible to attack.
Caught unprepared, it may be possible to cut off major sections of the US mainland from electrical service. This in turn means all utilities infrastructure breaks down as one of the world’s most electricity dependent regions goes dark for up the better part of a decade. The human survival carrying capacity of these areas will drop dramatically, potentially catastrophically, resulting in suffering and death far beyond what we see in even the worst natural disasters. Desperation would consume up to one hundred million people scrambling to survive at qualities of life one-tenth of the present. Entire metropolitan regions and economic centers may/will collapse. By the time we emerge, the US would not be the same as we know it today.
Take heart. All is not lost. The United States is not defenseless if we must “ride out” a nuclear attack. Ride out; there’s another Cold War term I had hoped to not have to use again in my lifetime. But here we are."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/understanding-north-koreas-emp-threat_us_59ae115de4b0bef3378cdad9
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I really hope it never happens.
Now that news sources other than the right-leaning outlets are covering it, preparations can begin to minimize the possibility of it happening or prevent it altogether.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
https://www.amazon.com/John-Matherson-Second-After-Final-ebook/dp/B06Y158VZC/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1504655273&sr=1-3&keywords=the+second+after
http://www.businessinsider.com/former-us-navy-seal-solution-to-north-korea-may-work-2017-9
When Jocko Willink, a former US Navy SEAL who is now an author and occasional Business Insider contributor, was asked on Twitter how he would handle the North Korean crisis, he gave an unexpected answer that one expert said just might work.
Willink's proposal didn't involve any covert special operation strikes or military moves of any kind. Instead of bombs, Willink suggested the US drop iPhones.
"Drop 25 million iPhones on them and put satellites over them with free wifi," Willink tweeted last week.
While the proposal itself is fantastical and far-fetched, Yun Sun, an expert on North Korea at the Stimson Center, says the core concept could work.
"Kim Jong Un understands that as soon as society is open and North Korean people realize what they're missing, Kim's regime is unsustainable, and it's going to be overthrown," Sun told Business Insider.
For this reason, North Korea's government would strongly oppose any measures that mirror Willink's suggestion.
Sun pointed out that when South Korea had previously flown balloons that dropped pamphlets and DVDs over North Korea, the Kim regime had responded militarily, sensing the frailty of its government relative to those of prosperous liberal democracies.
For this reason, North Korea would turn down even free iPhones for its entire population, thought to be about 25.2 million.
Such a measure, Sun said, would also open the West to criticism "for rewarding a illegitimately nuclear dictatorship" that "we know has committed massive human rights against its people."
And as North Korea puts the Kim regime above all else, any investment or aid would "be exploited first and foremost by the government," Sun said, adding: "We will have to swallow the consequence that of $100 investment, maybe $10 would reach the people."
North Korea harshly punishes ordinary citizens who are found to enjoy South Korean media, so there's good reason to think providing internet access or devices to North Koreans could get people killed.
But in a purely practical sense, the US has few options. War with North Korea could start a nuclear conflict or otherwise introduce a more long-term proliferation risk.
"They're not going to denuclearize until their regime changes and society changes," Sun said. "This approach may be the longer route, but it has the hope of succeeding."
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
But don't make it iPhones unless Apple pays for it, but they probably will to get another population locked in to their walled garden of iDiots
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"