The Concept of God

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  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 5,367
    jeffbr said:
    do all christians believe in the second coming/rapture/end times? just out of curiosity. even when I was christian, I didn't think that was going to happen. and I don't recall it being taught in church/sunday school. 
    Great question. i know I did when I was a believer. At least the 2nd coming and end of times. Christ's return is all over the New Testament, and Revelations has all sorts of cool sci-fi end of times/rapture stuff.
    I seem to recall, unless I'm making this up, that some christian denominations do not recognize the new testament. is that correct?
    Wow, I'm not sure. I'd be interested to know as well. It sure seems like the New Testament is what gives Christians their belief in a Son of God and makes Christ a deity. I suppose you could get there with some mental gymnastics in the Old Testament, but the NT is all about Christ's story, his promises, his death and resurrection, and of course his prophecies in Revelations. I know that there are groups like Jews for Jesus. They use the Old Testament and Jewish texts, and recognize Christ as the promised Messiah of the Old Testament. I suppose a belief in Jesus as the Messiah is what makes one a Christian, and the Jews for Jesus get there without the New Testament, so perhaps they would be an example of a Christian sect that doesn't recognize the NT. But I'm on pretty shaky ground, and not well versed enough to say for sure.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 10,311
    jeffbr said:
    jeffbr said:
    do all christians believe in the second coming/rapture/end times? just out of curiosity. even when I was christian, I didn't think that was going to happen. and I don't recall it being taught in church/sunday school. 
    Great question. i know I did when I was a believer. At least the 2nd coming and end of times. Christ's return is all over the New Testament, and Revelations has all sorts of cool sci-fi end of times/rapture stuff.
    I seem to recall, unless I'm making this up, that some christian denominations do not recognize the new testament. is that correct?
    Wow, I'm not sure. I'd be interested to know as well. It sure seems like the New Testament is what gives Christians their belief in a Son of God and makes Christ a deity. I suppose you could get there with some mental gymnastics in the Old Testament, but the NT is all about Christ's story, his promises, his death and resurrection, and of course his prophecies in Revelations. I know that there are groups like Jews for Jesus. They use the Old Testament and Jewish texts, and recognize Christ as the promised Messiah of the Old Testament. I suppose a belief in Jesus as the Messiah is what makes one a Christian, and the Jews for Jesus get there without the New Testament, so perhaps they would be an example of a Christian sect that doesn't recognize the NT. But I'm on pretty shaky ground, and not well versed enough to say for sure.
    you are absolutely right. i must be thinking of something else. or just totally making shit up in my head. one of the two. 
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  • ponytdponytd NashvillePosts: 454
    do all christians believe in the second coming/rapture/end times? just out of curiosity. even when I was christian, I didn't think that was going to happen. and I don't recall it being taught in church/sunday school. 
    I can't speak for everyone, but I do in a sense. when I was younger, I think i envisioned the world being set ablaze and fire and brimstone and...well basically like the movie This is the End with Seth Rogan and James Franco lol. Who knows, it may be like that. It may just be something that we're only aware of after we die. As Jeffbr said, Revelations has all kinds of cool stuff and is a fascinating book to study, but they were all visions that John had. They could just be his interpretations of how the end will be or maybe it's just an allegory on the battle between good and evil.

    And as far as the end times preacher people, I've always kind of scoffed at those that say that too. There are those that stand and preach that and try to instill fear into people into believing. Like others, I feel sorry for them. But most preachers I've heard when they preach on it, is a "hey, you never know when the end will come. Have you made things right with God or your family or your friends?" message.  Which, in itself is a good message. You shouldn't take things for granted. You're not promised tomorrow. Even if you don't believe in God, tell your kids you love them. Hug your spouse on the way out the door. Tell your friends how much they mean to you.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 10,311
    ponytd said:
    do all christians believe in the second coming/rapture/end times? just out of curiosity. even when I was christian, I didn't think that was going to happen. and I don't recall it being taught in church/sunday school. 
    I can't speak for everyone, but I do in a sense. when I was younger, I think i envisioned the world being set ablaze and fire and brimstone and...well basically like the movie This is the End with Seth Rogan and James Franco lol. Who knows, it may be like that. It may just be something that we're only aware of after we die. As Jeffbr said, Revelations has all kinds of cool stuff and is a fascinating book to study, but they were all visions that John had. They could just be his interpretations of how the end will be or maybe it's just an allegory on the battle between good and evil.

    And as far as the end times preacher people, I've always kind of scoffed at those that say that too. There are those that stand and preach that and try to instill fear into people into believing. Like others, I feel sorry for them. But most preachers I've heard when they preach on it, is a "hey, you never know when the end will come. Have you made things right with God or your family or your friends?" message.  Which, in itself is a good message. You shouldn't take things for granted. You're not promised tomorrow. Even if you don't believe in God, tell your kids you love them. Hug your spouse on the way out the door. Tell your friends how much they mean to you.
    yeah, I'm down with that
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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 35,573
    edited June 14
    Annafalk said:
    I don't understand how people can really believe that when we die we just die, and it's the end of it. It's hard for me to grasp.
    I figure it's easy to understand that I didn't exist before I was born, so it's not much of a stretch to believe I'll just go back to that when I die. If we came from oblivion when we were conceived, then it only makes sense that we go back to it at the time of death.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 392
    edited June 15
    Smellyman said:
    RYME said:
    RYME said:
    RYME said:
    amethgr8 said:
    Very interesting read, different points of view.  Thank you all, for your contribution.

    Its a fact that some countries and their populations are never exposed to the idea of God as in Christianity, they have no idea.  Are they just out of luck being born in the "wrong" country, what does the Bible say about them and not believing in God.

    amy


    You ask a great question Amy.  If you come from a place where Christianity is not taught, no you are not out of luck.
    Many nasty self-proclaimed Christian preachers teach that if you don't believe in Jesus at the time of your death you go straight to hell. That my friends just is not biblical.  Hell has been mistaught and misrepresented as long as there have been twisted preachers.  Hell won't even exist until after the millennium.  And even then, it's not frying like a piece of bacon for all eternity.  That's wrong to.  
     Also there are many Christian churches that don't actually teach the truth.  In any  case if you have not had a fair opportunity to learn the truth or if you've been brought up in a way that bashes christians left and right to the point that you don't know what to believe.   There will be an opportunity.
    There is a 1000 year period called The Lord's Day, or Millennium.  During that time all who never got to hear the truth about our Father, or have been mislead will have a chance.  1000 years to make up their mind.  So to say that they don't get a fair chance would be an understatement.  If after that 1000 year period, if you still reject the Lord, you are done it's not going down the escalator to hell as you may have seen on some cartoons.  Blotted out is the correct term.  A state of nonexistence.  At the end of the millennium is when judgement day occurs.  It is Payday for those who choose to follow our Father.  It is bye bye for those who don't.
    The millennium starts the day Jesus Christ returns.  He is coming back but not as a baby and not to be crucified again. He is coming back as king of kings and Lord of lords.
     The great thing about this time
    (the millennium) period is that satin will be locked in an abiss where by his evil spirit won't even be able to roam around and interfere like he does now.  You know all the confusion, deseption pain and suffering is due to none other than satin.  (his day is coming you can be sure of. )
    Remember Jesus comes back at the 7th Trump not the 6th.
    Don't be deceved by satin.
    666 means sixth trump sixth seal and sixth vile hence satin's number.  Satin comes defacto at the 6th trump.
    Christ returns at the 7th trump.
    Trump (trumpet)-call to action.
    Seal- knowledge or lack thereof depending on what you know or don't know.
    Vile-where the rubber meets the road, (action)
    777 is Jesus number.
    This is when Christ returns.  It's gonna be an awesome day.  And it's not that far off.
    Seventh trump seventh seal and seventh vile. Chronologically a few things have to happen yet but things are moving right along.  I'd like to share with you a lot more but this forum might not be the place to do it.  My info comes from the Bible.
    Primarily for what I've mentioned above,
    Mark, Luke, Peter 1&2, (Ezekiel chapter 40 to the end of that book describes the Millennium age. There is more prophecy about the Millennium age in the Book of Ezekiel than even the Book of Revelation. Revelations where you get your chronological events pertaining to the trumpets Satan's return and Jesus return I know this was long but I was trying to answer your question as best I could.
    What evidence do you have that "it's not that far off"?
    The final generation began in the year 1948 when Israel became a nation again.  So we are in the final generation. 
    Signs of Christ's return are well documented in 
    Matthew 24
    Mark 13 
    & Luke 21.
    Read it for yourself you might enjoy.
    I love it when people catch my spelling errors.  Somewhere I said Satan lol.

    I've read it before.  I used to believe it but further scrutiny didn't allow me to put my faith in that book anymore.  Too many contradictions and outright cruelty.
    That's ok.
    If some of what I've written has helped anyone that's great, if not that's okay too put it on the shelf.
    And HughfreakingDillon, I'll take one.
    I love drinking beer, listening to music, & chatting with you all, while I'm waiting for these prophecies to occur. ;)
    You are helping, just not the way you probably wish.  I am appreciative. HughFreakingDillon said:
    do all christians believe in the second coming/rapture/end times? just out of curiosity. even when I was christian, I didn't think that was going to happen. and I don't recall it being taught in church/sunday school. 
    Unfortunately a lot of well meaning Christians believe in the rapture, or fly away doctrine.  Sunday school is usually a lot of singing maby arts & crafts snack time and $offerings$ of cour$e, and for some reason they never quite get around to teaching God's Word.  And it's very sad that there are so many  ratchet jaw teachers out there that talk talk talk but never get around to​ teaching God's Word..  Why is that?   Anyway back to your question.
    The word rapture isn't in the Bible.
    As one who has studied the Bible for a long time, this is fasinating.
    Ezekiel was written about 622 BC.
    Ezekiel chapter 13 vs 20 God says I'm against those who teach my children to fly to save their souls.  So about 2,600 years ago God was warning to stear clear of fly away doctrine because satin's message at the 6th trump will be, I've come to fly you away.  Around 1840 AD there was a very sick Scottish woman named Margaret Mac Donnald, who was having visions of the end time & people being caught up In the air with what she thought was called the rapture.  There were a few people near by who took advantage of this crackpot things she was saying &  basically they made a whole new religion out of it.  Fast forward to now & there are a lot of so-called Christian churches that teach the rapture.  They couldn't be more wrong if they wanted to.
    There is a second coming of Christ, and like I say,  It is getting late in the game.  You should read or reread
    Mark 13, or Luke 21 tells all about it.  It's like reading tomorrow's newspaper today.  No I'm not saying it's happening tomorrow.  But it explains to you what's coming.
    But satin comes first.  Antichrist. You can read about this in 2nd Thessalonians.  
    His goal is to trick as many people as he can to make people think that he is Christ or what ever god people have been worshipping.  People are going to think regardless of what their religion is this is what they've been waiting for.  People expecting satin to be something of a monster, or a guy that creates all kinds of carnage are going to be deceved.  His minions all around the globe do that for him ever day now. carnage and chaos.
    If all of a sudden you hear a real serious world wide peace cry
     one world government,.  Peace in the middle East. Peace peace peace, Israel & Iran suddenly call a truce, or something of that nature. That's when you really want to pay real close attention.  Satin comes at the 6th trump.  He only has 5 months to deceve as many as he can.
    Jesus returns 5 months after the Antichrist, at the 7th trump.


    Post edited by RYME on
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 2,629
    We have to go through 7 Trumps?  That explains it.
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 21,875
    I've read none of this, but I can say, without hesitation.....there is no god.

    c'mon....what are we, cavemen trying to understand fire?
    If I had known then what I know now...

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,641
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 2,629
    Wobbie said:
    I've read none of this, but I can say, without hesitation.....there is no god.

    c'mon....what are we, cavemen trying to understand fire?
    It's a topic where you can't call someone crazy for being crazy.  We are getting there slowly.  Hard right now too since politicians in the USA use it like the church did back in the day to keep people in line through fear.
  • AnnafalkAnnafalk SwedenPosts: 3,106
    PJ_Soul said:
    Annafalk said:
    I don't understand how people can really believe that when we die we just die, and it's the end of it. It's hard for me to grasp.
    I figure it's easy to understand that I didn't exist before I was born, so it's not much of a stretch to believe I'll just go back to that when I die. If we came from oblivion when we were conceived, then it only makes sense that we go back to it at the time of death.
    Yes, that's how I like to think too. I know this sounds very strange but it I have like a vision from heaven, like how it is there and it's very comforting. I don't expect anyone to understand. I think whatever happens the safety is there for us when we die.
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 11,778
    edited June 15
    Considering our sun will run out of fuel in 7.5billion yrs give or take a billion yrs I am wondering if that is part of gods plan to officially cease life on earth?
    Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Both ideas are overwhelming. AE
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,641
    edited June 15
    Considering our sun will run out of fuel in 7.5billion yrs give or take a billion yrs I am wondering if that is part of gods plan to officially cease life on earth?
    I think it's more like 5 billion years.  But in any case, a billion years is like a day to the gods.  They will move the game on the the next table in less than a week and move and move and move until all the tables are played.  But you see, entropy is the house.  The house always wins.

    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • amethgr8amethgr8 Posts: 486
    Thank you all for your elaboration in response to my question.

    I tend to believe like PJSoul, whatever energy brought me here will take me out.  There are a lot of other though provoking points of view.

    I feel like most people that believe in God, do so because they were exposed to religion during the formative years of life like HFdillon said.  That's why I believed in him/it.  I've asked for people that were raised with no religious influence to post if they have "found" God, or what journey brought them from not believing to believing.  I didn't get any responses.  I'm sure they are out there.

    If there is a God, I don't necessarily believe that the bible is His book.  The longer I live the more I learn, one cannot believe everything they hear.  I feel like the bible is hearsay.  I'm sure there is some truth to it, but trying to figure out what is and what isn't, well I suppose there are people out there doing that.

    I fully enjoy this discussion and appreciate all the tolerance and understanding everyone has displayed with regards to others views and mine.

    Cheers!

    amy
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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,641
    amethgr8 said:
    Thank you all for your elaboration in response to my question.

    I tend to believe like PJSoul, whatever energy brought me here will take me out.  There are a lot of other though provoking points of view.

    I feel like most people that believe in God, do so because they were exposed to religion during the formative years of life like HFdillon said.  That's why I believed in him/it.  I've asked for people that were raised with no religious influence to post if they have "found" God, or what journey brought them from not believing to believing.  I didn't get any responses.  I'm sure they are out there.

    If there is a God, I don't necessarily believe that the bible is His book.  The longer I live the more I learn, one cannot believe everything they hear.  I feel like the bible is hearsay.  I'm sure there is some truth to it, but trying to figure out what is and what isn't, well I suppose there are people out there doing that.

    I fully enjoy this discussion and appreciate all the tolerance and understanding everyone has displayed with regards to others views and mine.

    Cheers!

    amy
    Nicely said, Amy.  Good thread!
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
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