Should Betsy DeVos be confirmed as Secretary of Education?

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Comments

  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 7,448
    No

    boy you folks can't stand to admit defeat in the face of constant loss. not that I am worried about Betsy one way or another but you guy's are really digging into this one like your opinion really matters to the world LOL ! I thought that kind of behavior is frowned upon here ?

    Your behavior is frowned upon here. The only people that keep bringing up who won or lost the election is you right wing nut jobs. We're just trying to make sure the world doesn't go to shit in the meantime with what we're given.
  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 2,940

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    "Well, as far as I know, music makes people happy. I know it makes me happy." -- Fats Domino
  • No

    American school kids became more stupid under the Obama administration, according to rankings released by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

    They recently released the results of a worldwide exam administered every three years to 15-year-olds in 72 countries. The exam monitors reading, math and science knowledge.

    Based on their findings, the United States saw an 11-point drop in math scores and nearly flat levels for reading and science.

    The Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, fell below the OECD average – and failed to crack the top ten in all three categories.

    In other words, thanks to the Obama administration’s education policies, kids in the Slovac Republic are more proficient in multiplication.

    In fairness, American teenagers may not know long form division - but by golly they know their non-binary gender pronouns. Yes sir, they do!

    But you can't blame the kids for being dumb as rocks.

    Instead of aspiring to greatness, public schools across the fruited plain are programming kids to be mediocre.

    It doesn't matter if Little Johnny thinks five plus four is 12.

    Modern-day classrooms are safe spaces where everybody’s a winner – everybody gets a gold star.

    There's just one problem with that philosophy. When Little Johnny becomes Big Johnny he's going to be living off the taxpayer dime.

    And good luck making change down at the Piggly Wiggly.

    The program didn't work. Not rocket science. It was a grand experiment. So DeVos is all of a sudden going to find a way to fix things? She knows nothing about education man. She's one of Trumps billionaire buddies. That's it.
    www.cluthelee.com
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 11,896

    boy you folks can't stand to admit defeat in the face of constant loss. not that I am worried about Betsy one way or another but you guy's are really digging into this one like your opinion really matters to the world LOL ! I thought that kind of behavior is frowned upon here ?

    how does it feel to be on the wrong side of history?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 9,106
    No

    boy you folks can't stand to admit defeat in the face of constant loss. not that I am worried about Betsy one way or another but you guy's are really digging into this one like your opinion really matters to the world LOL ! I thought that kind of behavior is frowned upon here ?

    so if we're serious, we need to lighten up. when we lighten up, we're crybabies.

    if our opinion didn't matter to the world, Pence wouldn't have had to swoop in and save the vote for her. This is the world you live in now, and you need to accept it, as much as we accept that these things don't always go our way. people are done just laying down and waiting for the next election.

    everyone has admitted to defeat in that election cycle. but this not a race with an end. it's fluid. the fight is constant, for the rights of our children, our climate, our brothers and sisters facing prejudice, and innocent people caught up in chaos around the world who simply want a safe place to raise their children in peace. and yes, I'm canadian, and I have this opinion, and I'm fully allowed to voice it because I care about all people, people I know that live there (including family), people around the world that have to feel the wrath of this administration

    did you just lay back and say nothing the past 8 years? of course you didn't. did ANYONE tell you to stop whining and accept the election result? NOPE. did you expect every liberal to just say "ok, see you in 4 years"? :rofl:

    don't be scared of us, GF. we mean you no harm. you have nothing to fear.

    remember, love trumps hate.
    "and on the 7th day, they played a show"
    Jamesis 10:10
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 11,896

    boy you folks can't stand to admit defeat in the face of constant loss. not that I am worried about Betsy one way or another but you guy's are really digging into this one like your opinion really matters to the world LOL ! I thought that kind of behavior is frowned upon here ?

    so if we're serious, we need to lighten up. when we lighten up, we're crybabies.

    if our opinion didn't matter to the world, Pence wouldn't have had to swoop in and save the vote for her. This is the world you live in now, and you need to accept it, as much as we accept that these things don't always go our way. people are done just laying down and waiting for the next election.

    everyone has admitted to defeat in that election cycle. but this not a race with an end. it's fluid. the fight is constant, for the rights of our children, our climate, our brothers and sisters facing prejudice, and innocent people caught up in chaos around the world who simply want a safe place to raise their children in peace. and yes, I'm canadian, and I have this opinion, and I'm fully allowed to voice it because I care about all people, people I know that live there (including family), people around the world that have to feel the wrath of this administration

    did you just lay back and say nothing the past 8 years? of course you didn't. did ANYONE tell you to stop whining and accept the election result? NOPE. did you expect every liberal to just say "ok, see you in 4 years"? :rofl:

    don't be scared of us, GF. we mean you no harm. you have nothing to fear.

    remember, love trumps hate.
    *standing ovation*

  • mfc2006mfc2006 Portland, ORPosts: 28,939
    No
    great post, Hugh.
    I LOVE MUSIC.
    www.cluthelee.com
    www.cluthe.com
  • a5pja5pj Hershey PAPosts: 2,934
    No

    a5pj said:

    my2hands said:

    I know there are some people in here that work in the education field, I know at least 1 is a teacher. First I would like to thank you, you are appreciated.

    What ate your thoughts on Devos?

    As for all the IDEA hysteria -- talk about gross over-regulation paralyzing the productivity of the workforce-- translate -- keeping good teachers from helping kids. Honestly, I don't even refer kids to special ed anymore. If I suspect a kid has a learning disability, I help the kid on my own and leave the fucking federal government out of it. I haven't seen a single special educator do anything special that I can't do myself to help an LD child learn. IDEA is a joke in so many ways, but I'll leave it there. I don't want my post to be mile long
    Well, not to get into a huge debate about special ed and it's effectiveness, but not referring students who you believe have a disability is going directly against child find. You could easily be opening yourself up to a lawsuit. You may be keeping the student from getting accommodations and protections that they need to learn and grow at the same rate as other "normal" students. There's a lot more to it than just going to see a special ed teacher, which I hope you know.

    I think it's awesome you are going above and beyond to help students who you think might have a disability, most don't, I wish more would. But it might be worth having a discussion with your school psychologist or director of special ed about your process.
    Dude, everytime I go to my sped department, they send me back and say "you haven't done your job." IDEA got an overhaul in 2004 -- in large part due to the over-diagnosis of minorities and students in poverty -- and since then, it's been a nightmare to get kids extra help from special ed. To even start the special ed process now, I have to document every single time I wipe a child''s ass for him. I don't have time for the paperwork, and they don't want to see the kids on their docket. It's fucked.
    Hey (wo)man?, I'm glad we can discuss this like adults.
    I deal with this every day from the sp ed side of it. And many teachers I work with feel the same way. I agree with you on IDEA and over diagnosis, but that's an issue above both our pay grades.
    As for "documenting every single time you wipe a child's ass", I understand your frustrations, but there are a few points to this:
    1. Many teachers just want "bad" or "difficult" students out of their class. So they don't have time to fill out paperwork that documents and shows what they did or didn't do.
    2. I'm sure you know of RTI / MTSS / Child Study. Interventions should be done before jumping to sp ed, which requires documentation and progress monitoring to show growth (or lack of). In medicine you take pills or do therapy before jumping to surgery right?
    3. I agree the paperwork for RTI can be lengthy. I recently shortened my schools from 10 to 2 pages (still have teachers refusing to do it). But it's there to make sure there aren't other issues. Example poor attendance is not sp ed.

    As for kids on their docket, not sure if you mean sp ed caseloads or kids to be tested. But you know educators are overworked and underpaid. In my position: don't waste my time bringing me kids with straight A's to test. And show me what you've tried before saying a kid needs special education. I don't have time to test every kid in the school. Teachers observations are important but I work on data. I already have a full caseload of students with severe disabilities to attend to. This is not saying I won't test a student that needs it.

    Another thing (which is I believe where you fall). You sound like a good teacher. Your students make progress and growth, disability or not. If the same student was with another teacher they'd probably need more help. So you probably get stuck with tougher kids (nice reward for being good right?) Happened to my Mom who was a teacher all the time, she got AU kids who with anyone else would need more AU support, but she worked hard for them and they grew. From a sp ed perspective that perfect Least Restrictive Environment and what's best for the student, but it's tough on the teacher. And the teacher should get more support then.

    Side note, dyslexia isn't a specific disability classification, but it is covered under a Specific Learning Disability in Reading if they are struggling.
    Wouldn't it be funny if the world ended in 2010, with lots of fire?
    38 shows and counting...,
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  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,105
    Call NOW!!!

  • vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USAPosts: 2,105
    edited February 10
    No
    poor Betsy.


    Post edited by vaggar99 on
  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 6,679
    No
    unsung said:

    Call NOW!!!

    Well isn't that sly? I assume Joe Facebookuser is too dumb to understand what that HR entails.

    Can't say I blame the person who put that piece together- we're a country of morons.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 16,284

    boy you folks can't stand to admit defeat in the face of constant loss. not that I am worried about Betsy one way or another but you guy's are really digging into this one like your opinion really matters to the world LOL ! I thought that kind of behavior is frowned upon here ?

    so if we're serious, we need to lighten up. when we lighten up, we're crybabies.

    if our opinion didn't matter to the world, Pence wouldn't have had to swoop in and save the vote for her. This is the world you live in now, and you need to accept it, as much as we accept that these things don't always go our way. people are done just laying down and waiting for the next election.

    everyone has admitted to defeat in that election cycle. but this not a race with an end. it's fluid. the fight is constant, for the rights of our children, our climate, our brothers and sisters facing prejudice, and innocent people caught up in chaos around the world who simply want a safe place to raise their children in peace. and yes, I'm canadian, and I have this opinion, and I'm fully allowed to voice it because I care about all people, people I know that live there (including family), people around the world that have to feel the wrath of this administration

    did you just lay back and say nothing the past 8 years? of course you didn't. did ANYONE tell you to stop whining and accept the election result? NOPE. did you expect every liberal to just say "ok, see you in 4 years"? :rofl:

    don't be scared of us, GF. we mean you no harm. you have nothing to fear.

    remember, love trumps hate.
    Great post
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 3,320
    No
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,105

    unsung said:

    Call NOW!!!

    Well isn't that sly? I assume Joe Facebookuser is too dumb to understand what that HR entails.

    Can't say I blame the person who put that piece together- we're a country of morons.
    The dept did not exist until the late 70's if I am correct. It isn't unreasonable to request an end to having bureaucrats in DC dictate policy across the country. Let the teachers teach.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 7,416
    No
    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Call NOW!!!

    Well isn't that sly? I assume Joe Facebookuser is too dumb to understand what that HR entails.

    Can't say I blame the person who put that piece together- we're a country of morons.
    The dept did not exist until the late 70's if I am correct. It isn't unreasonable to request an end to having bureaucrats in DC dictate policy across the country. Let the teachers teach.
    Let the teachers teach creationism?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USAPosts: 2,105
    No
    teacher strike/walkout in works. stay tuned.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,105
    edited February 11
    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Call NOW!!!

    Well isn't that sly? I assume Joe Facebookuser is too dumb to understand what that HR entails.

    Can't say I blame the person who put that piece together- we're a country of morons.
    The dept did not exist until the late 70's if I am correct. It isn't unreasonable to request an end to having bureaucrats in DC dictate policy across the country. Let the teachers teach.
    Let the teachers teach creationism?
    I thought my position on that had been clearly established.

    Is that an actual real concern?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 7,416
    No
    unsung said:

    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Call NOW!!!

    Well isn't that sly? I assume Joe Facebookuser is too dumb to understand what that HR entails.

    Can't say I blame the person who put that piece together- we're a country of morons.
    The dept did not exist until the late 70's if I am correct. It isn't unreasonable to request an end to having bureaucrats in DC dictate policy across the country. Let the teachers teach.
    Let the teachers teach creationism?
    I thought my position on that had been clearly established.

    Is that an actual real concern?
    Yes, it absolutely is, have you seen DeVos' background?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,105
    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Call NOW!!!

    Well isn't that sly? I assume Joe Facebookuser is too dumb to understand what that HR entails.

    Can't say I blame the person who put that piece together- we're a country of morons.
    The dept did not exist until the late 70's if I am correct. It isn't unreasonable to request an end to having bureaucrats in DC dictate policy across the country. Let the teachers teach.
    Let the teachers teach creationism?
    I thought my position on that had been clearly established.

    Is that an actual real concern?
    Yes, it absolutely is, have you seen DeVos' background?
    Ok, so get rid of the dept. Problem solved. No federal mandate for creationism.

    Aren't you guys getting the picture yet? It sucks when your guy isn't running the show. Why not limit their power?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 7,416
    No
    unsung said:

    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Call NOW!!!

    Well isn't that sly? I assume Joe Facebookuser is too dumb to understand what that HR entails.

    Can't say I blame the person who put that piece together- we're a country of morons.
    The dept did not exist until the late 70's if I am correct. It isn't unreasonable to request an end to having bureaucrats in DC dictate policy across the country. Let the teachers teach.
    Let the teachers teach creationism?
    I thought my position on that had been clearly established.

    Is that an actual real concern?
    Yes, it absolutely is, have you seen DeVos' background?
    Ok, so get rid of the dept. Problem solved. No federal mandate for creationism.

    Aren't you guys getting the picture yet? It sucks when your guy isn't running the show. Why not limit their power?
    Because the part that you can't seem to understand is that there will always be people who make decisions, and if you leave it to local yokels they will make local yokel decisions like teaching creationism.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • what dreamswhat dreams Posts: 893
    edited February 12
    a5pj said:

    a5pj said:

    my2hands said:

    I know there are some people in here that work in the education field, I know at least 1 is a teacher. First I would like to thank you, you are appreciated.

    What ate your thoughts on Devos?

    As for all the IDEA hysteria -- talk about gross over-regulation paralyzing the productivity of the workforce-- translate -- keeping good teachers from helping kids. Honestly, I don't even refer kids to special ed anymore. If I suspect a kid has a learning disability, I help the kid on my own and leave the fucking federal government out of it. I haven't seen a single special educator do anything special that I can't do myself to help an LD child learn. IDEA is a joke in so many ways, but I'll leave it there. I don't want my post to be mile long
    Well, not to get into a huge debate about special ed and it's effectiveness, but not referring students who you believe have a disability is going directly against child find. You could easily be opening yourself up to a lawsuit. You may be keeping the student from getting accommodations and protections that they need to learn and grow at the same rate as other "normal" students. There's a lot more to it than just going to see a special ed teacher, which I hope you know.

    I think it's awesome you are going above and beyond to help students who you think might have a disability, most don't, I wish more would. But it might be worth having a discussion with your school psychologist or director of special ed about your process.
    Dude, everytime I go to my sped department, they send me back and say "you haven't done your job." IDEA got an overhaul in 2004 -- in large part due to the over-diagnosis of minorities and students in poverty -- and since then, it's been a nightmare to get kids extra help from special ed. To even start the special ed process now, I have to document every single time I wipe a child''s ass for him. I don't have time for the paperwork, and they don't want to see the kids on their docket. It's fucked.
    Hey (wo)man?, I'm glad we can discuss this like adults.
    I deal with this every day from the sp ed side of it. And many teachers I work with feel the same way. I agree with you on IDEA and over diagnosis, but that's an issue above both our pay grades.
    As for "documenting every single time you wipe a child's ass", I understand your frustrations, but there are a few points to this:
    1. Many teachers just want "bad" or "difficult" students out of their class. So they don't have time to fill out paperwork that documents and shows what they did or didn't do.
    2. I'm sure you know of RTI / MTSS / Child Study. Interventions should be done before jumping to sp ed, which requires documentation and progress monitoring to show growth (or lack of). In medicine you take pills or do therapy before jumping to surgery right?
    3. I agree the paperwork for RTI can be lengthy. I recently shortened my schools from 10 to 2 pages (still have teachers refusing to do it). But it's there to make sure there aren't other issues. Example poor attendance is not sp ed.

    As for kids on their docket, not sure if you mean sp ed caseloads or kids to be tested. But you know educators are overworked and underpaid. In my position: don't waste my time bringing me kids with straight A's to test. And show me what you've tried before saying a kid needs special education. I don't have time to test every kid in the school. Teachers observations are important but I work on data. I already have a full caseload of students with severe disabilities to attend to. This is not saying I won't test a student that needs it.

    Another thing (which is I believe where you fall). You sound like a good teacher. Your students make progress and growth, disability or not. If the same student was with another teacher they'd probably need more help. So you probably get stuck with tougher kids (nice reward for being good right?) Happened to my Mom who was a teacher all the time, she got AU kids who with anyone else would need more AU support, but she worked hard for them and they grew. From a sp ed perspective that perfect Least Restrictive Environment and what's best for the student, but it's tough on the teacher. And the teacher should get more support then.

    Side note, dyslexia isn't a specific disability classification, but it is covered under a Specific Learning Disability in Reading if they are struggling.
    Thank you for your reply. It's always refreshing to hear from someone who actually understands what teaching really looks like.

    I do understand the special educator's caseload. The sped teachers in my English department have to use their sick leave to complete the required progress reports because they can't get them done during their paid work time. They have the most complicated teaching schedules in the school because of all the "highly qualified" regulations hamstringing the master schedule. They work in fear of litigation on a daily basis.

    It just shouldn't be this way, and my only point is that the federal government's involvement has only "guaranteed" one thing . . . cost taxpayers a ton of money to hire extra people to complete paperwork. Aside from helping the kids with severe and profound issues, I don't see that IDEA has "guaranteed" anything but that.
    Post edited by what dreams on
  • vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USAPosts: 2,105
    edited February 12
    No
    fuck, she's an Amway heir.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsy_DeVos

    oh, and her brother is Erik Prince? remember that piece of garbage? this is bad
  • vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USAPosts: 2,105
    No
    The Atlantic noted that DeVos had indicated in a 1997 op-ed that she expects results from her political contributions. “My family is the largest single contributor of soft money to the national Republican Party. I have decided to stop taking offense at the suggestion that we are buying influence,” she wrote. “Now I simply concede the point. They are right."[46] She also stated in the op-ed, “We expect to foster a conservative governing philosophy consisting of limited government and respect for traditional American virtues…We expect a return on our investment; we expect a good and honest government. Furthermore, we expect the Republican Party to use the money to promote these policies and, yes, to win elections."[
  • vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USAPosts: 2,105
    No
    W.E.B DeBois? It's just not funny anymore
  • riotgrlriotgrl LOUISVILLEPosts: 1,803
    No
    The problem is not just DeVos but the people running many of the states are on board with her nonsense. In KY we have a couple of bills up in regards to pushing religion in schools. The first is about teaching Bible "literacy" but apparently that is ok since it is a 'historical' not 'religious' context kentucky.com/news/local/education/article65408727.html

    The second is a law that states that kids can pray and read the Bible in school. The last time that I looked these things are already allowed they just can't be led by a teacher/administrator.

    These items are scary to those of that live in this state and disagree with what is happening especially if you understand that Governor Bevin is controlled by Southeast Christian Church which is little more than a cult around here.
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,105
    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Call NOW!!!

    Well isn't that sly? I assume Joe Facebookuser is too dumb to understand what that HR entails.

    Can't say I blame the person who put that piece together- we're a country of morons.
    The dept did not exist until the late 70's if I am correct. It isn't unreasonable to request an end to having bureaucrats in DC dictate policy across the country. Let the teachers teach.
    Let the teachers teach creationism?
    I thought my position on that had been clearly established.

    Is that an actual real concern?
    Yes, it absolutely is, have you seen DeVos' background?
    Ok, so get rid of the dept. Problem solved. No federal mandate for creationism.

    Aren't you guys getting the picture yet? It sucks when your guy isn't running the show. Why not limit their power?
    Because the part that you can't seem to understand is that there will always be people who make decisions, and if you leave it to local yokels they will make local yokel decisions like teaching creationism.
    No, that is where you are wrong, I understand it completely. I understand that the Dept is unconstitutional and I understand, again, that I don't want people in DC determining policy in States where they have no grasp of the local issues. What works for Texas might not work for NY and vice versa.

    Many Ed Dept policies in the Obama administration were illegally created, Common Core being the most offensive. Also having a single point of contact at the federal level makes it much easier for special interest groups to apply influence to determine policy. It actually invites corruption. Many here have exclaimed that the US is far behing other developed countries in education. The federal government has had a ed dept for nearly 40 years.

    It isn't working.
  • riotgrlriotgrl LOUISVILLEPosts: 1,803
    No
    unsung said:

    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Call NOW!!!

    Well isn't that sly? I assume Joe Facebookuser is too dumb to understand what that HR entails.

    Can't say I blame the person who put that piece together- we're a country of morons.
    The dept did not exist until the late 70's if I am correct. It isn't unreasonable to request an end to having bureaucrats in DC dictate policy across the country. Let the teachers teach.
    Let the teachers teach creationism?
    I thought my position on that had been clearly established.

    Is that an actual real concern?
    Yes, it absolutely is, have you seen DeVos' background?
    Ok, so get rid of the dept. Problem solved. No federal mandate for creationism.

    Aren't you guys getting the picture yet? It sucks when your guy isn't running the show. Why not limit their power?
    Because the part that you can't seem to understand is that there will always be people who make decisions, and if you leave it to local yokels they will make local yokel decisions like teaching creationism.
    No, that is where you are wrong, I understand it completely. I understand that the Dept is unconstitutional and I understand, again, that I don't want people in DC determining policy in States where they have no grasp of the local issues. What works for Texas might not work for NY and vice versa.

    Many Ed Dept policies in the Obama administration were illegally created, Common Core being the most offensive. Also having a single point of contact at the federal level makes it much easier for special interest groups to apply influence to determine policy. It actually invites corruption. Many here have exclaimed that the US is far behing other developed countries in education. The federal government has had a ed dept for nearly 40 years.

    It isn't working.

    We need national standards which is what Common Core was trying to address. Without a federal department of education leading the fight we DO get ridiculous policies like I mentioned in a previous post. Implementation of Common Core is the real problem not the standards themselves. If you want to limit policy created by the Dept. of Ed., like No Child Left Behind and Race to the Top then I totally agree with limitations on the department. In reality these initiatives were problematic because teachers are not acknowledged members of the committees. They are primarily designed by people who are trying to hold teachers accountable. Not a bad idea but the implementation of these initiatives have created years worth of test pushing that haven't held teachers accountable but have created teachers that teach to the test. This has stifled teacher creativity and has limited students to being really good test takers and not problem solvers.
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 2,940
    "Well, as far as I know, music makes people happy. I know it makes me happy." -- Fats Domino
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,105
    Ok, so get rid of it.

    I remember those standardized tests. Everyone filled in the circles ABCD, repeat. Nobody cared.

    We are falling behind in the world, it isn't because of aome yokel in Texas wanted to talk about the Bible. It is because of an overburdened system that has no grasp of reality. All of the Obama policies were illegally created, they bypassed Congress. It is a failure.
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