September 11th, 2001

123468

Comments

  • I won't go into PM - not worth it.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,964

    lol

    This argument is rehashed once a year and every year it is just as crazy. It's only a couple weeks late this year...

    And in all these years not one conspiracy theory had facts to support it.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418

    I appreciate all these comments. I too used to reject every other hypothesis I heard - until I decided to research myself. I hope that more will do the same. The recent comments are too restrictive however - correct that we don't know how many people were involved in this act do we? Maybe 100, maybe 1000. I do know that very large sums of money do wonderful things. Are we 100% positive there were planes? This is one of the questions I asked myself. I'm telling you, I just started from scratch. All I know is, having the Pentagon get hit, losing the entire world trade center complex in the capital of the world, and having a commercial jet disappear into a very small hole (after flying upside down) in PA without any military involvement from the best damn military in the world is just as hard for me to believe as the rest of them. And we have been fed info for 15 years the fact that a guy across the world with 19 buddies took over planes with box cutters. Not to mention most of those pilots were probably ex-military pilots and well trained in self defense. I do believe one of the pilots was even a boxer. There are sites from pilots as well that pretty much question every aspect of those flights (500 mph at that altitude?). Please take a little time and check some out.

    you are not 100% positive that planes at least crashed into the towers?
    I would disagree if you said there wasn't enough proof for the pentagon and PA crash sites, but at least there isn't multiple sources of video and thousands of eye witnesses. You realize for those to be a fake EVERY major news organization in the nation would have to be in on it, as they all had live video of planes crashing into the second tower. And somehow convince an entire city who just lost thousands of their own to lie and make up eye witness accounts? And on top of that, not have a single eye witness come forward and say "umm...I was video taping the whole thing and nothing happened guys. Here it is."
    That just doesn't sound even a little crazy to you?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 36,750
    mcgruff10 said:

    why would any of the wtc buildings be blown up using explosives? how could you plant the explosives in that short amount of time in tower 1/2?

    You couldn't. These controlled demolition theories are fucking ridiculous. You can't do a controlled demolition without basically dismantling the entire inside of the building. There is a LOT of prep work involved with a controlled demolition or anything close to it. You can't just hide a bunch of explosives around the building and expect it to collapsed straight down. Engineers - real live engineers with absolutely no horse in the race - have confirmed over and over and over how the WTC fell the way it did because of the planes and resulting fire, and it makes perfect sense because of the way the building was built. There would literally be no way to do what the conspiracy nuts try to claim without every single employee in both buildings knowing about it weeks ahead of time.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • To be honest mace - the whole day is crazy no matter what view you have. If I'm not mistaken, there were 5 major newscasts that day. CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX. For this to work, yes, all 5 would have to be in on it. Is that so far out of the realm of possibility? Wouldn't they all reap fantastic rewards for showing the world a 'live' crash of a plane (allegedly) smashing into the WTC? Have there been any questions at all surrounding all these newscasts over the years about making up news stories?

    There are numerous examples on the web that show errors made that day (i.e. FOX channel with ABC logo on it or something like that, a 17-second delay on the 'live' feed, different contrasts on the telecast but the same view, missing shoreline from a few shots, a quick black out when the 2nd plane hit, etc). I'm not here to press any theories onto anyone - just trying to prove there is a reason to question everything about that day. There is no smoking gun - just a lot of crazy things and coincidences As for the trickery with the NY folks - sure, plenty of great questions in this area. Didn't a bunch of people believe David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear?

    Another odd story from that day:
    There has been much criticism over the years about how our military failed us that day. Why didn't they shoot down any of the planes everybody asked? Well, I watched a History channel special - '9/11: 15 years later'. A 'recently revealed' fact about that day was given - 2 air force pilots were tailing Flight 93. The first pilot revealed 'as soon as I saw the plane I realized I was almost out of fuel and had to quickly land, I barely made it'. Another pilot said, 'I didn't have any weapons on my jet, it was a time of peace, the cold war was over. I then realized I would have to try and take out its tail. No one told me that but that I knew I had to do'.
    We were told the plane was going 500 miles per hour - that would be quite a maneuver (maybe it is possible, I'm not a jet pilot) but really? And no loaded missiles on board? So 3 planes have already hit the towers and pentagon and that is the best story they have for our military? Anybody feel safe with a story like that?
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 23,953
    What in the fuck?!?
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,964
    PJ_Soul said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    why would any of the wtc buildings be blown up using explosives? how could you plant the explosives in that short amount of time in tower 1/2?

    You couldn't. These controlled demolition theories are fucking ridiculous. You can't do a controlled demolition without basically dismantling the entire inside of the building. There is a LOT of prep work involved with a controlled demolition or anything close to it. You can't just hide a bunch of explosives around the building and expect it to collapsed straight down. Engineers - real live engineers with absolutely no horse in the race - have confirmed over and over and over how the WTC fell the way it did because of the planes and resulting fire, and it makes perfect sense because of the way the building was built. There would literally be no way to do what the conspiracy nuts try to claim without every single employee in both buildings knowing about it weeks ahead of time.
    Thank you! I like when we agree. ;)
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • dignindignin Posts: 5,099
    mcgruff10 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    why would any of the wtc buildings be blown up using explosives? how could you plant the explosives in that short amount of time in tower 1/2?

    You couldn't. These controlled demolition theories are fucking ridiculous. You can't do a controlled demolition without basically dismantling the entire inside of the building. There is a LOT of prep work involved with a controlled demolition or anything close to it. You can't just hide a bunch of explosives around the building and expect it to collapsed straight down. Engineers - real live engineers with absolutely no horse in the race - have confirmed over and over and over how the WTC fell the way it did because of the planes and resulting fire, and it makes perfect sense because of the way the building was built. There would literally be no way to do what the conspiracy nuts try to claim without every single employee in both buildings knowing about it weeks ahead of time.
    Thank you! I like when we agree. ;)
    Count me in too.
  • ehbaconehbacon Posts: 1,725
    edited September 2016
    1.) Many witnesses said that they saw pieces of the planes falling from the skies, one piece was just found a few years ago I believe.

    2.) Jet fuel does not melt steel beams, I'll agree with that. But thermite can, which was most likely planted all around the structures.

    3.) take your conspiracy shit out of their thread and make your own.
    Post edited by ehbacon on
    Listen to some of my music here (if you want to): [url="My soundcloud"]
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,964
    The only conspiracy theory I might believe in is that a u s fighter jet took down the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania. But if that was the case, wouldn't have the debris from the plane been found for miles around and not in one single spot?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Sorry guys - just looking for open minds. Much respect for all.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,676

    Sorry guys - just looking for open minds. Much respect for all.

    It's a rough crowd around here at times, comatose. Seems fair enough to me to ask the questions you've posed. I don't think anyone knows all the answers for certain though many think they do.
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • ehbaconehbacon Posts: 1,725
    brianlux said:

    Sorry guys - just looking for open minds. Much respect for all.

    It's a rough crowd around here at times, comatose. Seems fair enough to me to ask the questions you've posed. I don't think anyone knows all the answers for certain though many think they do.
    It's fair to ask, but not in this thread.
    Listen to some of my music here (if you want to): [url="My soundcloud"]
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 3,820
    Here is the big question that has yet to be asked.....

    WHY?

    Why conspire to make these horrific acts happen? Why fake them? Why set them up? Why kill all those innocent people?

    WHY?

    As someone who worked close enough to the Pentagon to feel the explosion, then drove by less than 15 minutes later and saw the flames. As someone who worked with people who were at the Pentagon that day and we're injured. As someone who a few weeks later stood on the pile at Ground Zero, and as someone who knew people who died at the WTC, I can tell you it happened. If you want to believe it didn't happen or that it was part of some sort of govt or media conspiracy, that's fine. Just be ready for the blowback.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,676
    edited September 2016
    ehbacon said:

    brianlux said:

    Sorry guys - just looking for open minds. Much respect for all.

    It's a rough crowd around here at times, comatose. Seems fair enough to me to ask the questions you've posed. I don't think anyone knows all the answers for certain though many think they do.
    It's fair to ask, but not in this thread.
    Oh how we stray! Totally fair enough- that's not what you wanted here and I respect that.

    So my story is that on the morning of 9/11/01 I was but days away from starting my new, healthier life, just a few steps away from completely escaping the gravitational pull of my 5 year long black hole. Not quite together in my life yet, I was living in a shit hole of an apartment- a row of four small rat hole dumps that were rotting away off Carson Road up the hill. It was the kind of place where the bathroom floor could cave in at any moment (mine did). As usual in the late morning hours of Pacific Standard Time, I was asleep on my smallish mattress with my little TV a few feet away on the floor. The wall and windows all were covered floor to ceiling with a patchwork of blankets on old thick curtains to deaden the sounds that vexed my damaged ears. Morning light, likely quite bright outside, barely filtered through little thin patches in the hanging cloth.

    Muted by a stray pillow, the phone rang. I roused slightly from a dead sleep.

    "Brian, turn on your TV". Those were the only words a familiar voice spoke.

    I reached out, pulled on the switch and through very heavy tired eyes I saw images that interrupted the flow of any familiar form of thought. Images that were blowing my mind, that were blowing minds almost all over the place. I was awake in no time and I knew I was watching a benchmark moment that would bend the American civilization askew like a weak metal fork and send shock waves across the globe.

    After an hour or so I got sick of seeing the same horror repeated over an over on the screen. I made coffee and went out to stumble around in the world for awhile.

    I had only visited that great city a half dozen times to that point, some of them rather brief, but each visit left a stamp on my life as it surely must everyone's. Once you've been there, you carry at least some small fragment of New York with you forever. I hope to return again one day.



    Post edited by brianlux on
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • Nice story Brian :-). Very true last statement. I love the city.

    I'm used to the blowback Bentleyspop - all I know is I went to Shanksville and I smelled BS when I knew I was supposed to feel grief and hope - I had to find out why I felt this way (and no, I am not anti-American - couldn't be further from the truth).

    'Why' is also a great question. I am sorry I did pick the wrong thread - I am new to this Forum thing but felt the need to reach out. I've seen the many previous threads on here and like I said before, going around in circles gets us nowhere.

    I will leave this thread with just 1 more question:
    We now have 15 years away from the emotion of that day, so now who has benefited the most from 9/11?
    1) Muslims
    2) Afghanistan
    3) Iraq
    4) America
    5) Other
    6) Both 4+5

    I feel a lot like Jerry Maguire holding the goldfish right now. I'll start another thread if anyone cares to keep it going - if so and if everyone agrees I am a certified nut job, then I will sit in my basement with the lights off and play "Bug's" for 48-hours straight and post it in Youtube.
  • It's pretty well documented that the official story is full of holes. Like I said, I really don't want to start a heated argument. Seeing is believing though - there is absolutely no way one could ever doctor a video shown on 'live' TV correct? No way fake witnesses have ever been used in 'news' stories before right? Just saying, keep the minds open, check out some Youtube vids, decide for yourself. I assure you I'm not a conspiracy theorist or a nut job. Just someone who wishes Rock n Roll can still change the world.

    That is the most ridiculous this I very ever heard. Where's the tin foil hats?
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418

    To be honest mace - the whole day is crazy no matter what view you have. If I'm not mistaken, there were 5 major newscasts that day. CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX. For this to work, yes, all 5 would have to be in on it. Is that so far out of the realm of possibility? Wouldn't they all reap fantastic rewards for showing the world a 'live' crash of a plane (allegedly) smashing into the WTC? Have there been any questions at all surrounding all these newscasts over the years about making up news stories?

    There are numerous examples on the web that show errors made that day (i.e. FOX channel with ABC logo on it or something like that, a 17-second delay on the 'live' feed, different contrasts on the telecast but the same view, missing shoreline from a few shots, a quick black out when the 2nd plane hit, etc). I'm not here to press any theories onto anyone - just trying to prove there is a reason to question everything about that day. There is no smoking gun - just a lot of crazy things and coincidences As for the trickery with the NY folks - sure, plenty of great questions in this area. Didn't a bunch of people believe David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear?

    Another odd story from that day:
    There has been much criticism over the years about how our military failed us that day. Why didn't they shoot down any of the planes everybody asked? Well, I watched a History channel special - '9/11: 15 years later'. A 'recently revealed' fact about that day was given - 2 air force pilots were tailing Flight 93. The first pilot revealed 'as soon as I saw the plane I realized I was almost out of fuel and had to quickly land, I barely made it'. Another pilot said, 'I didn't have any weapons on my jet, it was a time of peace, the cold war was over. I then realized I would have to try and take out its tail. No one told me that but that I knew I had to do'.
    We were told the plane was going 500 miles per hour - that would be quite a maneuver (maybe it is possible, I'm not a jet pilot) but really? And no loaded missiles on board? So 3 planes have already hit the towers and pentagon and that is the best story they have for our military? Anybody feel safe with a story like that?

    As for the news, I would have to say it is out of the realm of possibility. Yes, journalist have exaggerated stories and even made some up. Those stories didn't require killing anyone, let alone thousands, and didn't require thousands involved in the cover up. The unlikelihood of a single news agency willing to go along with this just for ratings is astronomical, let alone all of them-and getting away with it. I would have to say is by far out of the realm of possibilities.

    I have heard weird stories about the fighter jets before. Seems to me just a high level of incompetence during a time when Americans didn't even think an attach like this was possible.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418
    ehbacon said:

    1.) Many witnesses said that they saw pieces of the planes falling from the skies, one piece was just found a few years ago I believe.

    2.) Jet fuel does not melt steel beams, I'll agree with that. But thermite can, which was most likely planted all around the structures.

    3.) take your conspiracy shit out of their thread and make your own.

    I've heard jet fuel can't melt steal beams since days after 9/11. That has never even concerned me even a little. Not even enough to do 5 minutes of research to confirm my thoughts.
    Because I look back and see major structural beams completely taken out by the planes. The explosion would have created so many other fires that was so huge only a handful of people above the impact are known to survive. I can't help but think why did so many people think they wouldn't collapse? Seems only logical they would. Hindsight 20/20 though, could have saved hundreds more unfortunately.
  • For fucks sake. I'm really starting to feel bad for the poor dead horse that keeps getting beat.
    I'm sorry comatose but the "I'm not hear to spread theories" or "I'm just looking for open minded people" is bullshit. All you've done is post one moronic theory after another.
    I honestly don't know where to begin. I truly used to be a Truther on here, but the more I looked into it and studied the clearer that it became that what we saw on that day is really what happened.
    It's like Truthers hearts and brain are at war with another. Your heart wants it to be something more than the official story that it starts fucking with your brain's ability to look at things logically.
    I think that the commission missed some things. I think that we looked the other way when it came time to blame. I do think it's possible that the flight in PA was shot down. If it was the only option we had, okay. If the story of the plane is taken down by a revolt in the air is a lie, well, if the families find comfort in it...I'm not going to call someone's dead son not a hero because I question it.
    Truthers go beyond reason and hurt their own cause. The whole it's not planes in NYC just makes them look foolish. No, it's a fucking plane? Don't believe the media? Ok, there's tons of civilian video out there. Think that all of those were planted? Congrats, you just lost touch with reality and now you're just making your cause look like tin foil lunatics.
  • I know I said I was done here, but feel this is too important. I hope we can at least all agree:
    1) If non-government involvement: a crime was committed without a crime investigation. No one has ever been charged with the crime. Our military was ordered to stand down - why?
    2) If government involvement: our government can do whatever the hell it pleases and get away with it - so what will they do next?

    Both of these seem ok with everyone, sorry if I'm a little wigged out but neither one seems very good to me which is why an investigation is necessary - it is really sad that a huge crime like this has to be investigated by the citizens who resort to name calling and questioning each others character. The fact is, there are no crazy questions about this event - that is the whole 'open your mind' thing. Are we not supposed to question anything?

    I ask anyone who is really interested to spend about 3 minutes and decide for yourselves if you should continue to seek justice or not.
    This is a video about some dude's path down the conspiracy theory trail.

    First, at 1:17:02 - a guy on the street who has just seen the towers fall and he already knows exactly what happened
    Next, at 1:25:24-1:28:48 - he has discovered that there were indeed explosives so there must be something going on that he just can't understand, but it's ok, so what if 3000 people died, I'm going to go back to my life and be happy. The end.

    Ok, I'm out - peace all.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418
    Should we sentence the suicide bombers to life in prison then?
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,964
    mace1229 said:

    Should we sentence the suicide bombers to life in prison then?

    bro that was funny as hell lol. god that was a good point!
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,964
    edited September 2016
    1:17:02...I think millions of people thought the same thing. it doesn't take an engineering degree to have the same opinion as him.
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,676
    comatose et al.-- there's nothing wrong with discussing possible theories about 9/11 but what ehbacon, who started this thread, requested was that this thread be about you story, your reaction to the event, not about 9/11 theories.

    Why is is so difficult to respect the request of the OP to keep the thread on track? Can we not give each other that much respect here? And if we can't give each other that tiny amount of respect, does AMT need to maybe just go away?
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • brianlux said:

    comatose et al.-- there's nothing wrong with discussing possible theories about 9/11 but what ehbacon, who started this thread, requested was that this thread be about you story, your reaction to the event, not about 9/11 theories.

    Why is is so difficult to respect the request of the OP to keep the thread on track? Can we not give each other that much respect here? And if we can't give each other that tiny amount of respect, does AMT need to maybe just go away?

    Brian...

    That's the way discussion goes sometimes.

    If there's a post or series of posts one doesn't care to engage with... then what one can do is skim by them without getting upset and move to the posts they care to speak to.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,964
    bri,
    with all due respect you are talking about probably the single most important day in america in the past 50 years. 9/11 is this generation's pearl harbor. for the rest of our lives we will remember exactly what we were doing on that fateful day. a lot of us have some really strong opinions on what happened on 9/11 and how as a country and even the world responded.
    when someone says they don't believe airplanes were used in 9/11 I call that person a moron and I will respond.
    I realize what the op was doing when he created this thread but all threads in the amt change from the original purpose.
    Mike
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero GalaxyPosts: 17,316
    brianlux said:

    comatose et al.-- there's nothing wrong with discussing possible theories about 9/11 but what ehbacon, who started this thread, requested was that this thread be about you story, your reaction to the event, not about 9/11 theories.

    Why is is so difficult to respect the request of the OP to keep the thread on track? Can we not give each other that much respect here? And if we can't give each other that tiny amount of respect, does AMT need to maybe just go away?

    Brian I hear and I totally understand what you are saying. It's perfectly reasonable to ask questions about an event....I know I have on this subject a million times. I was like comatose at one time wanting to know why this or that on this subject. That's why I offered that I had started a thread nearly 10 years ago called 9/11 Mysteries. I thought if comatose wanted to continue the questions he would pose or just use the search function and bring back that thread. I checked and it's STILL there, all the questions he wanted to asked would have been appropriate there. Especially since the OP requested that we kept the thread going in the manner that he asked.

    Peace

    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • I do apologize for going off track here - I guess I'm just a little frustrated. It won't happen again.
    Enjoy your day everyone.
  • dignindignin Posts: 5,099
    edited September 2016

    I do apologize for going off track here - I guess I'm just a little frustrated. It won't happen again.
    Enjoy your day everyone.

    It's no big deal coma, just get the conversation going again at g under p's thread.

    Here it is, have at er'.
    http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/78603/9-11-mysteries

    I will see you over there to continue to judge your sanity.

    ;)
    Post edited by dignin on
Sign In or Register to comment.