Well, intelligence at the time said that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. That, however, was ignored in the drumbeat leading up to war.
Like I said, for whatever reason after 15 years I finally get why President Bush invaded Iraq.
Except for the fact that he had nothing to do with it.
The idea and the planning for the invasion of Iraq were developed long before he was even elected. The blame, 100% of it falls squarely on.... duck Cheney karl rove Don rumsfeld And to a lesser extent...colin powell
It was the smell that really got me. Everyday when I left my apartment the smell was in the air- a mix of steel, plastic, paper and bodies. I never had smelled anything like it and hope I don't again. It lasted for weeks if not more and there was nothing you could do to avoid it.
anytime you have a thread that remembers those lost in any type of conflict, it will eventually (d)evolve into discussion/argument over why/how it happened and who/what is responsible. this is normal.
in the end, it's a day to remember the lives lost and to hopefully learn how to prevent such another tragedy in the future, if and when that is possible.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I have strong emotions about 9/11. The horror of the day and the horror thise people went through still angers me to the core. I make myself watch all the shows on the history channel. Still shed tears when I hear the stories of horror and the stories of utter bravery and courage. The senseless killing of all of those people, and for what? Doesn't matter.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
It was the smell that really got me. Everyday when I left my apartment the smell was in the air- a mix of steel, plastic, paper and bodies. I never had smelled anything like it and hope I don't again. It lasted for weeks if not more and there was nothing you could do to avoid it.
very good friends of mine's brother-in-law is a NYC fireman. a guy i have hung out with a bit and have seen at many of their family functions. he wasn't there when it happened but was there as part of the cleanup later in the day and in the ensuing weeks. about three weeks after the day his wife had to get him out of the city and brought him down to the philly area to escape it for a bit and my friends asked us to come down and hang out and have a few beers with him. i will never forget the look he had on his face. like he had seen ghosts and had been in the presence of evil. i avoided asking any questions about it but one person did and i remembering him saying all they seem to find of people were their shoes. ill always remember how he looked that night i pray to God (and i am not religious) that i never see anyone look like that again. it still gives me chills.
My story isn't very interesting. I was living in San Diego getting ready for my organic chemistry class when we turned on the news and I called my parents. I remember my dad told me on the phone "get ready for WW III" My wife (we didn't meet until 10 years later) had just moved to Brooklyn NY to start her first year of teaching. Her first day as a teacher was 9/10/2001 in Brooklyn. Normal first day. Terrible second day. She doesn't like to talk about it, but she lived right across the bridge. So her neighborhood FD were among the first to arrive since the bridge is faster and closer than most departments in Manhattan, and therefore suffered some of the most casualties. The eeriest part for her was walking through the city a few days later and being the only time she ever heard birds chirping, and no sound of the city. For weeks she'd cry every day to work because she would pass thousands of missing posters and memorials on every church and street corner, many of whom were her age and looked like people she could have easily been friends with, or were sad stories about family members.
I have strong emotions about 9/11. The horror of the day and the horror thise people went through still angers me to the core. I make myself watch all the shows on the history channel. Still shed tears when I hear the stories of horror and the stories of utter bravery and courage. The senseless killing of all of those people, and for what? Doesn't matter.
i don't angry much any more, just very sad. like you i still watch what i can in and around 9/11 and yes hard not to cry. Every year I take out my America Tribute to Heroes cd (the one with Ed and Neil doing Long Road) and play it through a few times. even that makes me tear up but it's just something i do each year to remember.
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,199
Nothing major for on that day. I got a call from my mother demanding me to turn on the television. I was out the house on my way to a anatomy & biology class. I was a bit upset in that she never tells me why I needed to watch the news.....so I came back turned on the tv. I could see on the news one of the twins towers was on fire and then ten seconds later the second towers had a huge explosion. I can remember saying what the hell is this a movie? If only it could've been a movie.....it slowly dawned on me this horror was for real. I didn't move then saying a short time later those buildings could come down cause I could not see how they were going to put those fires out.
Living in MD at the time things got real crazy when they were saying planes were on their way to DC. Then the Pentagon got hit, that was it I had to go pick up my then 5 year old daughter from her school. She was upset with me as to why I came to get her, I just told her I have to take you home where its safe. I remember how much of a clear, crisp, pristine fall day it was that suddenly became so so quiet. Where my house was in a path to Andrews Air Force base where Air Force One is kept and all other military flights flew. The still and quiet was so unusual on that day....that it made me say..... A lot of people somewhere I going to get killed over this.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Thanks to Bacon for posting the names. The fact that the thread derailed so much is pretty sad.
I was in college when it happened. I worked at a lundromat. We had a tv on. I was helping a customer when it came across the screen. I sat there with 25 complete strangers in complete shock and disbelief. We cried together. We helped each other. I closed up the shop around noon, got in my car and drove to my sister's house about 2 hours away. I will never forget that day.
My story - I was a boss at the time, working at Universal Studios in LA and responsible for calling people to tell them not to come to work (Universal was considered a possible target). One woman sounded really weird on the phone. She called me back a few hours later and said she had an uncle who worked in one tower and a young cousin who worked in the other tower. They were both safe, but she'd been waiting to get word.
The uncle's story was pretty amazing. He walked down many many stairs and kept walking. Never looked back. When he got home, he told his wife, "I don't think I can ever work there again."
I don't find anything at all wrong with the flyer that reminds people of all the non-Americans who died. I don't think that fact disrespects the American victims of the attacks at all. You can mourn both groups of victims, and probably should. It might be a good thing to remind people that American lives aren't any more valuable than the lives of people in other nations. I also think it's a little ridiculous to suggest that 9/11 shouldn't be politicized. There is nothing NOT political about 9/11, including the deaths. But the vandalism part is very disrespectful, obviously.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't find anything at all wrong with the flyer that reminds people of all the non-Americans who died. I don't think that fact disrespects the American victims of the attacks at all. You can mourn both groups of victims, and probably should. It might be a good thing to remind people that American lives aren't any more valuable than the lives of people in other nations. I also think it's a little ridiculous to suggest that 9/11 shouldn't be politicized. There is nothing NOT political about 9/11, including the deaths. But the vandalism part is very disrespectful, obviously.
with all due respect f those people on that campus who have a problem with using American flags to show respect to the dead. it was an American tragedy. did the same people complain when we flew the French flag after the attacks there even though some Americans were killed? i don't condone violence but if i saw someone ripping out flags at a 9/11 Memorial I would not stand idly by.
this is the kid of shit that Kaepernick and his kneeling during the Anthem is spawning. disrespect to the Anthem and to the Flag.
I don't find anything at all wrong with the flyer that reminds people of all the non-Americans who died. I don't think that fact disrespects the American victims of the attacks at all. You can mourn both groups of victims, and probably should. It might be a good thing to remind people that American lives aren't any more valuable than the lives of people in other nations. I also think it's a little ridiculous to suggest that 9/11 shouldn't be politicized. There is nothing NOT political about 9/11, including the deaths. But the vandalism part is very disrespectful, obviously.
with all due respect f those people on that campus who have a problem with using American flags to show respect to the dead. it was an American tragedy. did the same people complain when we flew the French flag after the attacks there even though some Americans were killed? i don't condone violence but if i saw someone ripping out flags at a 9/11 Memorial I would not stand idly by.
this is the kid of shit that Kaepernick and his kneeling during the Anthem is spawning. disrespect to the Anthem and to the Flag.
That's why I said the vandalism is not acceptable. But I support any person's right to do what Kaepernick did during the anthem.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't find anything at all wrong with the flyer that reminds people of all the non-Americans who died. I don't think that fact disrespects the American victims of the attacks at all. You can mourn both groups of victims, and probably should. It might be a good thing to remind people that American lives aren't any more valuable than the lives of people in other nations. I also think it's a little ridiculous to suggest that 9/11 shouldn't be politicized. There is nothing NOT political about 9/11, including the deaths. But the vandalism part is very disrespectful, obviously.
with all due respect f those people on that campus who have a problem with using American flags to show respect to the dead. it was an American tragedy. did the same people complain when we flew the French flag after the attacks there even though some Americans were killed? i don't condone violence but if i saw someone ripping out flags at a 9/11 Memorial I would not stand idly by.
this is the kid of shit that Kaepernick and his kneeling during the Anthem is spawning. disrespect to the Anthem and to the Flag.
Deflecting the blame of these punk asses on Colin Kaepernick isn't a very good justification.
I'm not looking to drag it out, but if it helps some to talk further about their experiences of that time - even the aftermath of that day - I've no problem with it.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,292
No problem here either and I'm not cold and uncaring. I have my own PTSD to deal with. I'm just not sure how healthy it is to wallow in this 15 years later.
It's also worth considering that some of all of this is tied in to our fascination with morbid entertainment. Like it or not, the truth is )here in America anyway) we love disasters. Look at all the video games. Look at all the disaster movies. Remember what Carlin said about auto racing and how what we really go for is to see a horrific crash? America is in love with violence and disaster.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I hear you, B...though I don't think letting out emotions and memories around this date is necessarily wallowing. I see it more as release. Some need it more than others.
For the record, while I can lean toward morbidity in some circumstances, I am in no way entertained or fascinated by the event or by people jumping to their death from what could be a worse way of dying, or having lived through whatever they did. Or whomever others lost.
It's horrific to me, and that's on my shoulders (and head, and heart) to deal with. Feels rude for me to suggest otherwise...so, I don't.
I can't.
While some can get off on violence in films (and I do...again, release. Pulp Fiction, anyone? Westerns? A shitload of other films?), to have that suspension of disbelief in real life? Nope and never.
Comments
The idea and the planning for the invasion of Iraq were developed long before he was even elected.
The blame, 100% of it falls squarely on....
duck Cheney
karl rove
Don rumsfeld
And to a lesser extent...colin powell
in the end, it's a day to remember the lives lost and to hopefully learn how to prevent such another tragedy in the future, if and when that is possible.
-EV 8/14/93
we will find a way, we will find our place
My wife (we didn't meet until 10 years later) had just moved to Brooklyn NY to start her first year of teaching. Her first day as a teacher was 9/10/2001 in Brooklyn. Normal first day. Terrible second day.
She doesn't like to talk about it, but she lived right across the bridge. So her neighborhood FD were among the first to arrive since the bridge is faster and closer than most departments in Manhattan, and therefore suffered some of the most casualties.
The eeriest part for her was walking through the city a few days later and being the only time she ever heard birds chirping, and no sound of the city.
For weeks she'd cry every day to work because she would pass thousands of missing posters and memorials on every church and street corner, many of whom were her age and looked like people she could have easily been friends with, or were sad stories about family members.
Living in MD at the time things got real crazy when they were saying planes were on their way to DC. Then the Pentagon got hit, that was it I had to go pick up my then 5 year old daughter from her school. She was upset with me as to why I came to get her, I just told her I have to take you home where its safe. I remember how much of a clear, crisp, pristine fall day it was that suddenly became so so quiet. Where my house was in a path to Andrews Air Force base where Air Force One is kept and all other military flights flew. The still and quiet was so unusual on that day....that it made me say..... A lot of people somewhere I going to get killed over this.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-911-memorial-vandalized-occidental-20160912-snap-htmlstory.html
I was in college when it happened. I worked at a lundromat. We had a tv on. I was helping a customer when it came across the screen. I sat there with 25 complete strangers in complete shock and disbelief. We cried together. We helped each other. I closed up the shop around noon, got in my car and drove to my sister's house about 2 hours away. I will never forget that day.
Take care of each other.
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
Disgusting indeed
My story - I was a boss at the time, working at Universal Studios in LA and responsible for calling people to tell them not to come to work (Universal was considered a possible target). One woman sounded really weird on the phone. She called me back a few hours later and said she had an uncle who worked in one tower and a young cousin who worked in the other tower. They were both safe, but she'd been waiting to get word.
The uncle's story was pretty amazing. He walked down many many stairs and kept walking. Never looked back. When he got home, he told his wife, "I don't think I can ever work there again."
He didn't know the tower had come down.
this is the kid of shit that Kaepernick and his kneeling during the Anthem is spawning. disrespect to the Anthem and to the Flag.
But I support any person's right to do what Kaepernick did during the anthem.
2003: 4/29 Albany, 5/2 Buffalo, 7/9 MSG 2 2006: 5/12 Albany, 6/3 East Rutherford 2
2008: 6/27 Hartford 2009: 10/27 Philadelphia 1 2010: 5/15 Hartford, 5/21 MSG 2
2013: 10/15 Worcester 1, 10/25 Hartford 2014: 10/1 Cincinnati
2018: 9/2 Fenway 1
2024: 9/3 MSG 1, 9/4 MSG 2 , 9/15 Fenway 1, 9/17 Fenway 2
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Hey everybody, it's 9/12/16. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm ready to dust off and move on.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
It's also worth considering that some of all of this is tied in to our fascination with morbid entertainment. Like it or not, the truth is )here in America anyway) we love disasters. Look at all the video games. Look at all the disaster movies. Remember what Carlin said about auto racing and how what we really go for is to see a horrific crash? America is in love with violence and disaster.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
For the record, while I can lean toward morbidity in some circumstances, I am in no way entertained or fascinated by the event or by people jumping to their death from what could be a worse way of dying, or having lived through whatever they did. Or whomever others lost.
It's horrific to me, and that's on my shoulders (and head, and heart) to deal with. Feels rude for me to suggest otherwise...so, I don't.
I can't.
While some can get off on violence in films (and I do...again, release. Pulp Fiction, anyone? Westerns? A shitload of other films?), to have that suspension of disbelief in real life? Nope and never.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"