What is the typical case load of the social workers where you live? When you are responsible for hundreds of cases that must monitored and checked on each month it can get overwhelming. Where is the blame for a system that overloads these people? Why blame the social worker and not spread the blame to others who make the rules?
because people are imperfect beings
:fp:
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
What is the typical case load of the social workers where you live? When you are responsible for hundreds of cases that must monitored and checked on each month it can get overwhelming. Where is the blame for a system that overloads these people? Why blame the social worker and not spread the blame to others who make the rules?
because people are imperfect beings
:fp:
don't hurt yourself there
and please by all means rely somewhat on an intelligent reply ...
the mods don't like this stuff.
Someone is raped every 2 minutes in the US. Why aren't we more outraged by this? Why isn't our focus and energy being put into sexual violence prevention efforts, instead of worrying about preventing survivors from terminating pregnancies that might result from a rape?
you have stated on here numerous times that you have had an abortion. nobody holds that against you
I addressed the rest of your post but reread and saw this.
It is so far from the truth. It burns in my heart because there are many who regret
taking the life of their unborn child, both mother and father.
We don't hear much about them though or their pain, guilt, remorse and shame.
If we did could we save others the same torment?
What is the typical case load of the social workers where you live? When you are responsible for hundreds of cases that must monitored and checked on each month it can get overwhelming. Where is the blame for a system that overloads these people? Why blame the social worker and not spread the blame to others who make the rules?
because people are imperfect beings
making a blanket statement blaming social workers and their apparent apathy is just plain ignorant and slanderous. you obviously have no idea what social workers caseloads are like, and how difficult their job is and how scrutinized they are.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
What is the typical case load of the social workers where you live? When you are responsible for hundreds of cases that must monitored and checked on each month it can get overwhelming. Where is the blame for a system that overloads these people? Why blame the social worker and not spread the blame to others who make the rules?
because people are imperfect beings
making a blanket statement blaming social workers and their apparent apathy is just plain ignorant and slanderous. you obviously have no idea what social workers caseloads are like, and how difficult their job is and how scrutinized they are.
CBG, speaking of scary, so are those numbers you cited. Agreed, a clamp of some kind is needed to ensure the shit doesn't happen to begin with.
It's just crazy...every hour 30 rapes occur in the US...75 since most people got to work this morning. I'd like to see more focus and energy into preventing that and making the question of whether a rape survivor should have the right to get an abortion as much of a non-issue as possible.
...
That's the thing... being victimized in a brutal assault... then, having the government (basically, old men) telling them they HAVE to go through the entire pregnancy and birth... I have no words for this type of rationale.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
That's the thing... being victimized in a brutal assault... then, having the government (basically, old men) telling them they HAVE to go through the entire pregnancy and birth... I have no words for this type of rationale.
It is - dare I say? ...outrageous.
That secondary trauma - whether aborting or being forced to carry to term - wouldn't even be an issue if not for the first.
That's the thing... being victimized in a brutal assault... then, having the government (basically, old men) telling them they HAVE to go through the entire pregnancy and birth... I have no words for this type of rationale.
It is - dare I say? ...outrageous.
That secondary trauma - whether aborting or being forced to carry to term - wouldn't even be an issue if not for the first.
...
Agreed. It would be great if we could stop the crime in the first place... like not segregating rapist from general prison populations, as a start.
But, the crime is still going to occur. The government should not have a hand in this except to punish the rapist. The choice of what is best for the victim needs to be left for the victim to decide... not these fucking old fucks.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
That's the thing... being victimized in a brutal assault... then, having the government (basically, old men) telling them they HAVE to go through the entire pregnancy and birth... I have no words for this type of rationale.
It is - dare I say? ...outrageous.
That secondary trauma - whether aborting or being forced to carry to term - wouldn't even be an issue if not for the first.
...
Agreed. It would be great if we could stop the crime in the first place... like not segregating rapist from general prison populations, as a start.
But, the crime is still going to occur. The government should not have a hand in this except to punish the rapist. The choice of what is best for the victim needs to be left for the victim to decide... not these fucking old fucks.
Exactly - why not focus on stopping the crime, then the issue of abortion in the case of rape becomes a non-issue? Not that rape can be eliminated...but there certainly can be more effort put into prevention. It just bothers me that in a lot of these statements made by politicians on this issue, the issue of the rape is glossed over, minimized or dismissed.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Exactly - why not focus on stopping the crime, then the issue of abortion in the case of rape becomes a non-issue? Not that rape can be eliminated...but there certainly can be more effort put into prevention. It just bothers me that in a lot of these statements made by politicians on this issue, the issue of the rape is glossed over, minimized or dismissed.
...
The thing I find most disturbing and creepy in the whole thing is how RAPE is portrayed as almost coincidental to these politicians... AND the ones whom support them. Their focus seems to be all about the pregnancy.. not the CAUSE of the pregnancy... including the CRIME OF RAPE.
This line of thought is completely beyond my understanding.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Exactly - why not focus on stopping the crime, then the issue of abortion in the case of rape becomes a non-issue? Not that rape can be eliminated...but there certainly can be more effort put into prevention. It just bothers me that in a lot of these statements made by politicians on this issue, the issue of the rape is glossed over, minimized or dismissed.
...
The thing I find most disturbing and creepy in the whole thing is how RAPE is portrayed as almost coincidental to these politicians... AND the ones whom support them. Their focus seems to be all about the pregnancy.. not the CAUSE of the pregnancy... including the CRIME OF RAPE.
This line of thought is completely beyond my understanding.
I'm disturbed by that too. The issue of rape is not even really attended to in their statements...it's almost like there is acceptance that this crime is going to happen and so we should just deal with that. No real attention is paid to it all. The focus is on further disempowering a victim by taking the autonomy of her body away for a second time...a second victimization...with little attention paid to the first victimization at all.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Exactly - why not focus on stopping the crime, then the issue of abortion in the case of rape becomes a non-issue? Not that rape can be eliminated...but there certainly can be more effort put into prevention. It just bothers me that in a lot of these statements made by politicians on this issue, the issue of the rape is glossed over, minimized or dismissed.
Because they are pro-lifers and that is their agenda. I'm sure they would vote for legislation
that was tougher on rape but thats not the point...
their heart is in saving new life right now!
It's their cause.
The effect they want to be to change, their calling, whatever name given.
They want to limit abortions so lives are saved.
Debatably noble and misguided in method and means.
I'm disturbed by that too. The issue of rape is not even really attended to in their statements...it's almost like there is acceptance that this crime is going to happen and so we should just deal with that. No real attention is paid to it all. The focus is on further disempowering a victim by taking the autonomy of her body away for a second time...a second victimization...with little attention paid to the first victimization at all.
...
Don't any of these fucking assholes have daughters? Wives? Mothers???
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
79% do not support the current abortion-on-demand policy, saying abortion should be legal only in some circumstances (68%), or illegal in all circumstances (11%).
Marist Poll, December 2011
78% believe that women who have abortions commonly experience moderately severe to very severe negative emotional reactions to abortion.
Medical Science Monitor, 2003
95% of women want to be informed of all risks of a medical procedure; 69% want to be informed of all alternatives.
Journal of Medical Ethics, July 2006
64% of women who experienced one or more abortions “felt pressured by others” to have the abortion.
Medical Science Monitor, Oct. 2004
Why do women have abortions?
74% say having a baby would interfere with work, school, or other responsibilities.
73% say they cannot afford to have a child.
48% say they do not want to be a single parent, or have relationship problems with husband or partner. Less than 2% say they became pregnant as a result of rape or incest.
I'm disturbed by that too. The issue of rape is not even really attended to in their statements...it's almost like there is acceptance that this crime is going to happen and so we should just deal with that. No real attention is paid to it all. The focus is on further disempowering a victim by taking the autonomy of her body away for a second time...a second victimization...with little attention paid to the first victimization at all.
...
Don't any of these fucking assholes have daughters? Wives? Mothers???
I always think the very same about the rapists :?
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
79% do not support the current abortion-on-demand policy, saying abortion should be legal only in some circumstances (68%), or illegal in all circumstances (11%).
Marist Poll, December 2011
78% believe that women who have abortions commonly experience moderately severe to very severe negative emotional reactions to abortion.
Medical Science Monitor, 2003
95% of women want to be informed of all risks of a medical procedure; 69% want to be informed of all alternatives.
Journal of Medical Ethics, July 2006
64% of women who experienced one or more abortions “felt pressured by others” to have the abortion.
Medical Science Monitor, Oct. 2004
Why do women have abortions?
74% say having a baby would interfere with work, school, or other responsibilities.
73% say they cannot afford to have a child.
48% say they do not want to be a single parent, or have relationship problems with husband or partner. Less than 2% say they became pregnant as a result of rape or incest.
That's a helluva lot of abortions in that time period...and the less than two percent you chose to bold is close to 1.1 million women.
That's a helluva lot as well, no?
Also consider that it's likely many more than the 1.1M didn't share that their pregnancy was the result of rape or incest. That happens an awful lot, unfortunately.
79% do not support the current abortion-on-demand policy, saying abortion should be legal only in some circumstances (68%), or illegal in all circumstances (11%).
Marist Poll, December 2011
78% believe that women who have abortions commonly experience moderately severe to very severe negative emotional reactions to abortion.
Medical Science Monitor, 2003
95% of women want to be informed of all risks of a medical procedure; 69% want to be informed of all alternatives.
Journal of Medical Ethics, July 2006
64% of women who experienced one or more abortions “felt pressured by others” to have the abortion.
Medical Science Monitor, Oct. 2004
Why do women have abortions?
74% say having a baby would interfere with work, school, or other responsibilities.
73% say they cannot afford to have a child.
48% say they do not want to be a single parent, or have relationship problems with husband or partner. Less than 2% say they became pregnant as a result of rape or incest.
That's a helluva lot of abortions in that time period...and the less than two percent you chose to bold is close to 1.1 million women.
That's a helluva lot as well, no?
Also consider that it's likely many more than the 1.1M didn't share that their pregnancy was the result of rape or incest. That happens an awful lot, unfortunately.
Yes, I think it actually happens way more often than not. Especially with incest.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
79% do not support the current abortion-on-demand policy, saying abortion should be legal only in some circumstances (68%), or illegal in all circumstances (11%).
Marist Poll, December 2011
78% believe that women who have abortions commonly experience moderately severe to very severe negative emotional reactions to abortion.
Medical Science Monitor, 2003
95% of women want to be informed of all risks of a medical procedure; 69% want to be informed of all alternatives.
Journal of Medical Ethics, July 2006
64% of women who experienced one or more abortions “felt pressured by others” to have the abortion.
Medical Science Monitor, Oct. 2004
Why do women have abortions?
74% say having a baby would interfere with work, school, or other responsibilities.
73% say they cannot afford to have a child.
48% say they do not want to be a single parent, or have relationship problems with husband or partner. Less than 2% say they became pregnant as a result of rape or incest.
That's a helluva lot of abortions in that time period...and the less than two percent you chose to bold is close to 1.1 million women.
That's a helluva lot as well, no?
Also consider that it's likely many more than the 1.1M didn't share that their pregnancy was the result of rape or incest. That happens an awful lot, unfortunately.
Yes, I think it actually happens way more often than not. Especially with incest.
79% do not support the current abortion-on-demand policy, saying abortion should be legal only in some circumstances (68%), or illegal in all circumstances (11%).
Marist Poll, December 2011
78% believe that women who have abortions commonly experience moderately severe to very severe negative emotional reactions to abortion.
Medical Science Monitor, 2003
95% of women want to be informed of all risks of a medical procedure; 69% want to be informed of all alternatives.
Journal of Medical Ethics, July 2006
64% of women who experienced one or more abortions “felt pressured by others” to have the abortion.
Medical Science Monitor, Oct. 2004
Why do women have abortions?
74% say having a baby would interfere with work, school, or other responsibilities.
73% say they cannot afford to have a child.
48% say they do not want to be a single parent, or have relationship problems with husband or partner. Less than 2% say they became pregnant as a result of rape or incest.
That's a helluva lot of abortions in that time period...and the less than two percent you chose to bold is close to 1.1 million women.
That's a helluva lot as well, no?
Also consider that it's likely many more than the 1.1M didn't share that their pregnancy was the result of rape or incest. That happens an awful lot, unfortunately.
Yes, I think it actually happens way more often than not. Especially with incest.
I agree. Many survivors can't even put a language to their experience of incest, let alone list it as a reason for pregnancy or seeking an abortion. Not to mention so many rape victims don't even understand that what happened to them was a crime...they don't use the language of "rape," and so would not list this as a reason. However, if the argument is that only a very small percentage of abortions are the result of rape or incest, why give it so much political attention and use it as a tool?
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
The Republicans have doubled down on the pro fetus anti-women stance
To suggest that a woman be forced to carry and raise her rapist's baby, and (in a number of states) be forced to give visitation rights to a rapist is truly beyond belief.
This gives more weight to a cluster of cells or a lima-bean-sized embryo than a fully grown woman.
Some christians believe that "life" begins at conception. Since we don't live in a theocracy (at least not yet), that is aheir religious view, which should not be imposed on others. The legal question of when a fetus has "rights" is somewhat different, and I would think that logically, until a fetus can survie outside its mother, it cannot not have independent rights. Thus once viability is reached, then the state can have an interest in protecting the unborn. I think this is more or less what was established by Roe v Wade.
Until the repubs kick out ignorant, misogynisitc assholes like Joe Walsh, Akin, Mourdock, and Roger Rivard, (who stated that his father had told him when he was young that "some girls rape easy" as a way to warn him that a woman could agree to sex but then later claim that it wasn't consensual), they should expect limited support from women, who are a majority of voters and majority of independent voters.
I'm disturbed by that too. The issue of rape is not even really attended to in their statements...it's almost like there is acceptance that this crime is going to happen and so we should just deal with that. No real attention is paid to it all. The focus is on further disempowering a victim by taking the autonomy of her body away for a second time...a second victimization...with little attention paid to the first victimization at all.
...
Don't any of these fucking assholes have daughters? Wives? Mothers???
Seriously? Because they are talking about the outcome of rape in relation to abortion that means they are ok with rape? It seems to me that a couple of you are getting all worked up about an imaginary scenario that doesn't actually exist. What would make you happy? That they scream for 30 minutes "RAPE IS BAD!!! RAPE IS BAD!!"
The DNC is making this about rape, they are twisting people's words and using it to their political advantage. And you have bought in to it. This has nothing to do with the act of rape itself. Pretty sure that everyone except rapists are against that. And I'd be willing to bet that even rapists don;t want it to happen to their mother, wife, daughter, sister, etc.
Sad numbers to look at :( Looking at those numbers, how can we not promote contraception more in this country? It's just crazy that people can oppose abortions but not want to improve the conversation we have with young people about methods of prevention.
Comments
:fp:
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
but really Romney :? why would you post that in this thread?
Is that not off topic?
is this not one of the dozen or so threads not about Romney?
Maybe you confused threads like I do sometimes
and please by all means rely somewhat on an intelligent reply ...
the mods don't like this stuff.
Outrage towards rape to outrage towards abortion?
It is so far from the truth. It burns in my heart because there are many who regret
taking the life of their unborn child, both mother and father.
We don't hear much about them though or their pain, guilt, remorse and shame.
If we did could we save others the same torment?
no, it is not. Romney's flip flopping on this issue and his support for this man is paramount to this discussion.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
making a blanket statement blaming social workers and their apparent apathy is just plain ignorant and slanderous. you obviously have no idea what social workers caseloads are like, and how difficult their job is and how scrutinized they are.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
so I have been focusing there.
But Romney has not flopped on this guy has he?
Did I miss him pulling the endorsement ad?
Last I heard Romney only said his own views do not coincide with
this fellas, which would probably be true of an awful lot of Republicans,
Has that changed?
that's as crazy as not blaming any
That's the thing... being victimized in a brutal assault... then, having the government (basically, old men) telling them they HAVE to go through the entire pregnancy and birth... I have no words for this type of rationale.
Hail, Hail!!!
That secondary trauma - whether aborting or being forced to carry to term - wouldn't even be an issue if not for the first.
Agreed. It would be great if we could stop the crime in the first place... like not segregating rapist from general prison populations, as a start.
But, the crime is still going to occur. The government should not have a hand in this except to punish the rapist. The choice of what is best for the victim needs to be left for the victim to decide... not these fucking old fucks.
Hail, Hail!!!
maybe the bright side to having pro-lifers around.
he did not pull the ad.
he distanced himself in a statement.
that's not being consistent one way or the other.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
how the heck is that flip flopping?
You guys ...
I think the flip flop just caught on and unfortunately is on repeat
and about all ya got.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
The thing I find most disturbing and creepy in the whole thing is how RAPE is portrayed as almost coincidental to these politicians... AND the ones whom support them. Their focus seems to be all about the pregnancy.. not the CAUSE of the pregnancy... including the CRIME OF RAPE.
This line of thought is completely beyond my understanding.
Hail, Hail!!!
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
that was tougher on rape but thats not the point...
their heart is in saving new life right now!
It's their cause.
The effect they want to be to change, their calling, whatever name given.
They want to limit abortions so lives are saved.
Debatably noble and misguided in method and means.
Don't any of these fucking assholes have daughters? Wives? Mothers???
Hail, Hail!!!
54,559,615 abortions 1973–2011
http://www.mccl.org/us-abortion-stats.html
Reported abortions in the United States, by year
Americans’ views concerning abortion:
79% do not support the current abortion-on-demand policy, saying abortion should be legal only in some circumstances (68%), or illegal in all circumstances (11%).
Marist Poll, December 2011
78% believe that women who have abortions commonly experience moderately severe to very severe negative emotional reactions to abortion.
Medical Science Monitor, 2003
95% of women want to be informed of all risks of a medical procedure; 69% want to be informed of all alternatives.
Journal of Medical Ethics, July 2006
64% of women who experienced one or more abortions “felt pressured by others” to have the abortion.
Medical Science Monitor, Oct. 2004
Why do women have abortions?
74% say having a baby would interfere with work, school, or other responsibilities.
73% say they cannot afford to have a child.
48% say they do not want to be a single parent, or have relationship problems with husband or partner.
Less than 2% say they became pregnant as a result of rape or incest.
That's a helluva lot as well, no?
Also consider that it's likely many more than the 1.1M didn't share that their pregnancy was the result of rape or incest. That happens an awful lot, unfortunately.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
To suggest that a woman be forced to carry and raise her rapist's baby, and (in a number of states) be forced to give visitation rights to a rapist is truly beyond belief.
This gives more weight to a cluster of cells or a lima-bean-sized embryo than a fully grown woman.
Some christians believe that "life" begins at conception. Since we don't live in a theocracy (at least not yet), that is aheir religious view, which should not be imposed on others. The legal question of when a fetus has "rights" is somewhat different, and I would think that logically, until a fetus can survie outside its mother, it cannot not have independent rights. Thus once viability is reached, then the state can have an interest in protecting the unborn. I think this is more or less what was established by Roe v Wade.
Until the repubs kick out ignorant, misogynisitc assholes like Joe Walsh, Akin, Mourdock, and Roger Rivard, (who stated that his father had told him when he was young that "some girls rape easy" as a way to warn him that a woman could agree to sex but then later claim that it wasn't consensual), they should expect limited support from women, who are a majority of voters and majority of independent voters.
Seriously? Because they are talking about the outcome of rape in relation to abortion that means they are ok with rape? It seems to me that a couple of you are getting all worked up about an imaginary scenario that doesn't actually exist. What would make you happy? That they scream for 30 minutes "RAPE IS BAD!!! RAPE IS BAD!!"
The DNC is making this about rape, they are twisting people's words and using it to their political advantage. And you have bought in to it. This has nothing to do with the act of rape itself. Pretty sure that everyone except rapists are against that. And I'd be willing to bet that even rapists don;t want it to happen to their mother, wife, daughter, sister, etc.
So, you don;t want them imposing their beliefs/thoughts on you, but yours is just an opinion as well that you wish to impose on others.