Viruses / Vaccines 2

Go Beavers · May 14

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

shecky said:

mace1229 said:

shecky said:

Be afraid. Be very afraid. Not just about a new virus but, about our government agencies hiding the truth.
There are live hearings being held as we speak (May 13, 2026 10:30 a.m. EST) that you can watch.

I haven't seen what specifically this is about. But if they're going into the origins of Covid, I don't think anyone thinks there weren't some shenanigans about continuing to deny it was from a China lab after it was obvious. That was one of those times where because Trump said it was from a China lab half the country continued to say that must not be the case, despite the growing evidence.

You are entirely correct. And, it was not only Dr. Fauci (whom President Biden issued a full and unconditional preemptive pardon) who lied repeatedly to us about the facts, but the CIA did, as well.
And, perhaps most frightening of all, the news media played along with them and lied and refused to report the truth!

So when the gov't and the CIA completes an analysis, you believe that the "news media" played along and should have reported the "truth". Tell me, what was the truth and what evidence did the media have of this truth that the CIA and gov't did not provide? And how did the media get it?

I know you didn't ask me this question, but it seems clear to me the possibility of a lab leak was downplayed a lot. I thought that was commonly understood by most that it was immediately dismissed prematurely as a possibility. I don't think there was a big underground ring where they coordinated a conspiracy, but more like "Trump said it, so it must be wrong" attitude that lead to the complete dismissal by many politicians and media of a possible lab leak. Despite the fact there was a lab near where the outbreak started, lack of cooperation from China, high profile scientists who scrutinized the outbreak were missing or jailed. Yet, at the time, if you said that looks suspicious and maybe the lab had something to do with it, you were labeled a racist conspiracy theorist.
You are correct that there is no definitive proof of a leak, and maybe it wasn't. But it was prematurely dismissed and the whole wet market thing was pushed very hard as the only possibility when the leak should have been considered from the beginning too.

My experience was that it was undetermined, and the people speaking with certainty that it was a lab leak were determined to not be credible. Just because a handful of people were claiming racism doesn’t mean there wasn’t objective people looking into the source of covid. They were questioning its origins, but given that their motives were genuine, they weren’t labeled racist.

mace1229 · May 14

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

shecky said:

mace1229 said:

shecky said:

Be afraid. Be very afraid. Not just about a new virus but, about our government agencies hiding the truth.
There are live hearings being held as we speak (May 13, 2026 10:30 a.m. EST) that you can watch.

I haven't seen what specifically this is about. But if they're going into the origins of Covid, I don't think anyone thinks there weren't some shenanigans about continuing to deny it was from a China lab after it was obvious. That was one of those times where because Trump said it was from a China lab half the country continued to say that must not be the case, despite the growing evidence.

You are entirely correct. And, it was not only Dr. Fauci (whom President Biden issued a full and unconditional preemptive pardon) who lied repeatedly to us about the facts, but the CIA did, as well.
And, perhaps most frightening of all, the news media played along with them and lied and refused to report the truth!

So when the gov't and the CIA completes an analysis, you believe that the "news media" played along and should have reported the "truth". Tell me, what was the truth and what evidence did the media have of this truth that the CIA and gov't did not provide? And how did the media get it?

I know you didn't ask me this question, but it seems clear to me the possibility of a lab leak was downplayed a lot. I thought that was commonly understood by most that it was immediately dismissed prematurely as a possibility. I don't think there was a big underground ring where they coordinated a conspiracy, but more like "Trump said it, so it must be wrong" attitude that lead to the complete dismissal by many politicians and media of a possible lab leak. Despite the fact there was a lab near where the outbreak started, lack of cooperation from China, high profile scientists who scrutinized the outbreak were missing or jailed. Yet, at the time, if you said that looks suspicious and maybe the lab had something to do with it, you were labeled a racist conspiracy theorist.
You are correct that there is no definitive proof of a leak, and maybe it wasn't. But it was prematurely dismissed and the whole wet market thing was pushed very hard as the only possibility when the leak should have been considered from the beginning too.

My experience was that it was undetermined, and the people speaking with certainty that it was a lab leak were determined to not be credible. Just because a handful of people were claiming racism doesn’t mean there wasn’t objective people looking into the source of covid. They were questioning its origins, but given that their motives were genuine, they weren’t labeled racist.

For about a year the mainstream media was claiming the lab leak was debunked and referring to it as a conspiracy theory.

mace1229 · May 14

(CNN)A vacuum of knowledge about the origins of the new coronavirus ravaging the world has provided fertile ground for all manner of theories -- from the fantastic, to the dubious to the believable.

It was a bioweapon manufactured by the Chinese. The US Army brought the virus to Wuhan. It leaked -- like a genie out of a bottle -- from a lab in an accident. It took root at a wildlife market in Wuhan.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/us/coronavirus-scientists-debate-origin-theories-invs/index.html

That is CNN not taking the lab leak theory seriously. Comparing it to a "genie" in a bottle. They weren't just criticizing people speaking with certainty, they were mocking the idea of a lab leak.

mrussel1 · May 14

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

shecky said:

mace1229 said:

shecky said:

Be afraid. Be very afraid. Not just about a new virus but, about our government agencies hiding the truth.
There are live hearings being held as we speak (May 13, 2026 10:30 a.m. EST) that you can watch.

I haven't seen what specifically this is about. But if they're going into the origins of Covid, I don't think anyone thinks there weren't some shenanigans about continuing to deny it was from a China lab after it was obvious. That was one of those times where because Trump said it was from a China lab half the country continued to say that must not be the case, despite the growing evidence.

You are entirely correct. And, it was not only Dr. Fauci (whom President Biden issued a full and unconditional preemptive pardon) who lied repeatedly to us about the facts, but the CIA did, as well.
And, perhaps most frightening of all, the news media played along with them and lied and refused to report the truth!

So when the gov't and the CIA completes an analysis, you believe that the "news media" played along and should have reported the "truth". Tell me, what was the truth and what evidence did the media have of this truth that the CIA and gov't did not provide? And how did the media get it?

I know you didn't ask me this question, but it seems clear to me the possibility of a lab leak was downplayed a lot. I thought that was commonly understood by most that it was immediately dismissed prematurely as a possibility. I don't think there was a big underground ring where they coordinated a conspiracy, but more like "Trump said it, so it must be wrong" attitude that lead to the complete dismissal by many politicians and media of a possible lab leak. Despite the fact there was a lab near where the outbreak started, lack of cooperation from China, high profile scientists who scrutinized the outbreak were missing or jailed. Yet, at the time, if you said that looks suspicious and maybe the lab had something to do with it, you were labeled a racist conspiracy theorist.
You are correct that there is no definitive proof of a leak, and maybe it wasn't. But it was prematurely dismissed and the whole wet market thing was pushed very hard as the only possibility when the leak should have been considered from the beginning too.

All this may be true, but thinking back in 2020, what difference did it make at the time? Would Operation Warp Speed been different? No PPP. No stimulus? No masks? I think it's great to explore this now, particularly if we can gain leverage over China. During the pandemic, it seemed far less important and if I recall correctly, there was escalating violence in this country against Asians. Irresponsibly blaming the Chinese could do more harm than good.

mrussel1 · May 14

tempo_n_groove said:

This comment from Erdman shows why the Dems should have been there.

"Nothing shocks me anymore with our colleagues from the other side of the aisle, but I'm shocked that not one of them showed up here," Johnson told Erdman.
"This is serious oversight work," he added. "This is what the American people need to see. And I just wish our Democrat colleagues had any level of curiosity about what's happening inside the deep state."

He should have included "Marxist", "Woke", and "Pelosi" for maximum right wing talking point credit.

It's not clear to me how this guy was a serious witness. His accusations were all conjecture on his part.

mace1229 · May 14

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

shecky said:

mace1229 said:

shecky said:

Be afraid. Be very afraid. Not just about a new virus but, about our government agencies hiding the truth.
There are live hearings being held as we speak (May 13, 2026 10:30 a.m. EST) that you can watch.

I haven't seen what specifically this is about. But if they're going into the origins of Covid, I don't think anyone thinks there weren't some shenanigans about continuing to deny it was from a China lab after it was obvious. That was one of those times where because Trump said it was from a China lab half the country continued to say that must not be the case, despite the growing evidence.

You are entirely correct. And, it was not only Dr. Fauci (whom President Biden issued a full and unconditional preemptive pardon) who lied repeatedly to us about the facts, but the CIA did, as well.
And, perhaps most frightening of all, the news media played along with them and lied and refused to report the truth!

So when the gov't and the CIA completes an analysis, you believe that the "news media" played along and should have reported the "truth". Tell me, what was the truth and what evidence did the media have of this truth that the CIA and gov't did not provide? And how did the media get it?

I know you didn't ask me this question, but it seems clear to me the possibility of a lab leak was downplayed a lot. I thought that was commonly understood by most that it was immediately dismissed prematurely as a possibility. I don't think there was a big underground ring where they coordinated a conspiracy, but more like "Trump said it, so it must be wrong" attitude that lead to the complete dismissal by many politicians and media of a possible lab leak. Despite the fact there was a lab near where the outbreak started, lack of cooperation from China, high profile scientists who scrutinized the outbreak were missing or jailed. Yet, at the time, if you said that looks suspicious and maybe the lab had something to do with it, you were labeled a racist conspiracy theorist.
You are correct that there is no definitive proof of a leak, and maybe it wasn't. But it was prematurely dismissed and the whole wet market thing was pushed very hard as the only possibility when the leak should have been considered from the beginning too.

All this may be true, but thinking back in 2020, what difference did it make at the time? Would Operation Warp Speed been different? No PPP. No stimulus? No masks? I think it's great to explore this now, particularly if we can gain leverage over China. During the pandemic, it seemed far less important and if I recall correctly, there was escalating violence in this country against Asians. Irresponsibly blaming the Chinese could do more harm than good.

I've heard that argument before, and never understood it. How is claiming it came from people eating bats in an unsanitary market going to lead to less targeting of Asians than blaming an accident in a lab? If anything, it actually sounds worse to me, you're blaming their culture rather than an accident. You're basically saying "We don't want to unfairly target the Chinese people, so we're just going to blame it on their culture and diet and ignore the possibility it was an accident, and that will make us less mad at them."

It might not have made a difference at the time, but you can't expect the entire world to not be curious and want answers when we are in a global outbreak.

tempo_n_groove · May 14

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

This comment from Erdman shows why the Dems should have been there.

"Nothing shocks me anymore with our colleagues from the other side of the aisle, but I'm shocked that not one of them showed up here," Johnson told Erdman.
"This is serious oversight work," he added. "This is what the American people need to see. And I just wish our Democrat colleagues had any level of curiosity about what's happening inside the deep state."

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.
Why? To lend legitimacy to the circus? Did you watch any of the hearing? Political theater at its worst and nothing will come of it.
RELEASE THE FILES!!!!!

Why? Because I am sick and tired of hearing about other conspiracy theories that will come of this.

It's really simple to put scenarios out here because the dems didn't show.

That's why...

Halifax2TheMax · May 14

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

This comment from Erdman shows why the Dems should have been there.

"Nothing shocks me anymore with our colleagues from the other side of the aisle, but I'm shocked that not one of them showed up here," Johnson told Erdman.
"This is serious oversight work," he added. "This is what the American people need to see. And I just wish our Democrat colleagues had any level of curiosity about what's happening inside the deep state."

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.
Why? To lend legitimacy to the circus? Did you watch any of the hearing? Political theater at its worst and nothing will come of it.
RELEASE THE FILES!!!!!

Why? Because I am sick and tired of hearing about other conspiracy theories that will come of this.

It's really simple to put scenarios out here because the dems didn't show.

That's why...

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

Sorry, but Dems lending legitimacy to a sham hearing with a misrepresentation of a witness wouldn’t end the conspiracy theories. Those clowns don’t even acknowledge nor realize that they are the “deep state”. Nothing more than political theater as a distraction.

Can’t fix stupid.

PJ_Soul · May 14

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

shecky said:

Be afraid. Be very afraid. Not just about a new virus but, about our government agencies hiding the truth.
There are live hearings being held as we speak (May 13, 2026 10:30 a.m. EST) that you can watch.

I haven't seen what specifically this is about. But if they're going into the origins of Covid, I don't think anyone thinks there weren't some shenanigans about continuing to deny it was from a China lab after it was obvious. That was one of those times where because Trump said it was from a China lab half the country continued to say that must not be the case, despite the growing evidence.

‘Obvious’. Lol

Maybe I should have said "obvious that it could have". We'll probably never know for sure. But for a few years you were called racist and a conspiracy theorist by many for even questioning the possibility.
As mrussel said, I agree there isn't a smoking gun pointing to the lab, but now it is an acceptable theory.

Wasn't the objectionable theory that the Chinese government purposefully released the virus from the lab?? I don't think saying it came from a lab alone was the controversial part.

PJ_Soul · May 14

Tim Simmons said:

I often wonder if its willful ignorance or performative incompetence in the name of trolling.

I think it's option 2.

Tim Simmons · May 14

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

This comment from Erdman shows why the Dems should have been there.

"Nothing shocks me anymore with our colleagues from the other side of the aisle, but I'm shocked that not one of them showed up here," Johnson told Erdman.
"This is serious oversight work," he added. "This is what the American people need to see. And I just wish our Democrat colleagues had any level of curiosity about what's happening inside the deep state."

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.
Why? To lend legitimacy to the circus? Did you watch any of the hearing? Political theater at its worst and nothing will come of it.
RELEASE THE FILES!!!!!

Why? Because I am sick and tired of hearing about other conspiracy theories that will come of this.

It's really simple to put scenarios out here because the dems didn't show.

That's why...

But how is it any different from any other day when Dems do participate in hearings/testimonials/governance and the lies and conspiracies still spread?

At least here, it bears mentioning that ‘no Dem attended’ causing one to at least have the passing thought, "huh wonder why? maybe its not serious".

mrussel1 · May 14

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

shecky said:

mace1229 said:

shecky said:

Be afraid. Be very afraid. Not just about a new virus but, about our government agencies hiding the truth.
There are live hearings being held as we speak (May 13, 2026 10:30 a.m. EST) that you can watch.

I haven't seen what specifically this is about. But if they're going into the origins of Covid, I don't think anyone thinks there weren't some shenanigans about continuing to deny it was from a China lab after it was obvious. That was one of those times where because Trump said it was from a China lab half the country continued to say that must not be the case, despite the growing evidence.

You are entirely correct. And, it was not only Dr. Fauci (whom President Biden issued a full and unconditional preemptive pardon) who lied repeatedly to us about the facts, but the CIA did, as well.
And, perhaps most frightening of all, the news media played along with them and lied and refused to report the truth!

So when the gov't and the CIA completes an analysis, you believe that the "news media" played along and should have reported the "truth". Tell me, what was the truth and what evidence did the media have of this truth that the CIA and gov't did not provide? And how did the media get it?

I know you didn't ask me this question, but it seems clear to me the possibility of a lab leak was downplayed a lot. I thought that was commonly understood by most that it was immediately dismissed prematurely as a possibility. I don't think there was a big underground ring where they coordinated a conspiracy, but more like "Trump said it, so it must be wrong" attitude that lead to the complete dismissal by many politicians and media of a possible lab leak. Despite the fact there was a lab near where the outbreak started, lack of cooperation from China, high profile scientists who scrutinized the outbreak were missing or jailed. Yet, at the time, if you said that looks suspicious and maybe the lab had something to do with it, you were labeled a racist conspiracy theorist.
You are correct that there is no definitive proof of a leak, and maybe it wasn't. But it was prematurely dismissed and the whole wet market thing was pushed very hard as the only possibility when the leak should have been considered from the beginning too.

All this may be true, but thinking back in 2020, what difference did it make at the time? Would Operation Warp Speed been different? No PPP. No stimulus? No masks? I think it's great to explore this now, particularly if we can gain leverage over China. During the pandemic, it seemed far less important and if I recall correctly, there was escalating violence in this country against Asians. Irresponsibly blaming the Chinese could do more harm than good.

I've heard that argument before, and never understood it. How is claiming it came from people eating bats in an unsanitary market going to lead to less targeting of Asians than blaming an accident in a lab? If anything, it actually sounds worse to me, you're blaming their culture rather than an accident. You're basically saying "We don't want to unfairly target the Chinese people, so we're just going to blame it on their culture and diet and ignore the possibility it was an accident, and that will make us less mad at them."

It might not have made a difference at the time, but you can't expect the entire world to not be curious and want answers when we are in a global outbreak.

I think it's the concept of laying blame against a culture period. The official US position wasn't "bat eating market", it was that it was likely a natural occurrence.

Go Beavers · May 14

mace1229 said:

(CNN)A vacuum of knowledge about the origins of the new coronavirus ravaging the world has provided fertile ground for all manner of theories -- from the fantastic, to the dubious to the believable.
It was a bioweapon manufactured by the Chinese. The US Army brought the virus to Wuhan. It leaked -- like a genie out of a bottle -- from a lab in an accident. It took root at a wildlife market in Wuhan.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/us/coronavirus-scientists-debate-origin-theories-invs/index.html

That is CNN not taking the lab leak theory seriously. Comparing it to a "genie" in a bottle. They weren't just criticizing people speaking with certainty, they were mocking the idea of a lab leak.

“The truth of how this began remains elusive”

The article is relatively balanced with what was happening at the time and there isn’t any mockery. “Genie in a bottle” is just a metaphor about something getting loose. It presents a range of opinions and I feel like people are still trying to revise history to validate their covid resentments.

HughFreakingDillon · May 14

shecky said:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/top-4-explosive-moments-cia-whistleblowers-testimony-alleged-covid-19-lab-leak-cover

One of the greatest features of President Trump's second term is that a lot of the dirty dealings the former administration swept under the rug are now coming to light and being exposed to the American public.

I can't wait to read you say this same thing about the next admin regarding the current admin.

Or will you be chasing a McTrump with 2L of diet coke in the ballroom you likely donated to?

gimmesometruth27 · May 14

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

This comment from Erdman shows why the Dems should have been there.

"Nothing shocks me anymore with our colleagues from the other side of the aisle, but I'm shocked that not one of them showed up here," Johnson told Erdman.
"This is serious oversight work," he added. "This is what the American people need to see. And I just wish our Democrat colleagues had any level of curiosity about what's happening inside the deep state."

He should have included "Marxist", "Woke", and "Pelosi" for maximum right wing talking point credit.

It's not clear to me how this guy was a serious witness. His accusations were all conjecture on his part.

he didn't persuade anybody because he did not drop the racist coup de gras "kung flu".

Halifax2TheMax · May 21

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

23% death rate. Makes Covid look like chicken pox. Who’s in charge of the CDC, again?

Passenger from Congo boards flight ‘in error’, prompting diversion to Canada amid Ebola outbreak

Air France flight en route to Detroit, Michigan, landed in Montreal after virus-related travel restrictions

An Air France flight headed to Detroit, Michigan, was redirected to Canada on Wednesday after it was determined that a passenger from the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) had boarded “in error” amid new Ebola-related travel restrictions, officials with the US Customs and Border Protection agency (CBP) said.

“Due to entry restrictions put in place to reduce the risk of the Ebolavirus, the passenger should not have boarded the plane,” a CBP spokesperson said in a statement.

“CBP took decisive action and prohibited the flight carrying that traveler from landing at Detroit Metropolitan Wayne county airport, and instead, diverted to Montreal, Canada.”

The spokesperson added that CBP, in coordination with the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), “is taking the necessary measures to protect public health and reduce the risk of Ebola disease introduction into the United States”.

On Monday, the CDC and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) implemented temporary measures aimed at preventing the Ebola disease from entering the US amid ongoing outbreaks in east and central Africa. The measures include enhanced travel screening, entry restrictions and additional public health protocols.

Among the new rules are entry restrictions for non-US passport holders who have been in “Uganda, DRC or South Sudan in the previous 21 days”. The order is in effect for 30 days, according to the announcement.

The DHS will implement further entry restrictions beginning on Thursday for foreign travellers arriving to the US from countries at the center of the outbreak. In a DHS notice submitted to the Federal Register, expected to be published on Thursday, the department states all US-bound flights carrying foreign travelers who have been in Congo, Uganda or South Sudan in the last 21 days must land at Washington-Dulles international airport in Virginia, “where the US government is focusing public health resources to implement enhanced public health measures”.

On Wednesday, the director-general of the World Health Organization said that so far, there had been almost 600 suspected cases of Ebola and 139 suspected deaths, warning that the numbers were expected to rise. The director-general said that 51 cases had been confirmed in the DRC, “although we know the scale of the epidemic in DRC is much larger”. Uganda has also confirmed two cases, he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/may/21/congo-canada-passenger-flight-diversion-ebola

tempo_n_groove · May 21

Ebola is something that has been contained more times than I can remember and becomes an issue again.

Such a weird virus.

Viruses / Vaccines 2

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Passenger from Congo boards flight ‘in error’, prompting diversion to Canada amid Ebola outbreak

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