Same folks up front

MayDay10 · May 12

RE4790 said:

I have no dog in this fight but I do roll my eyes at seeing the same people in the same spot at every show now. Maybe not in the spirit of what the band and music about. philosophically I would caution against posting pictures and/or naming and shaming folks online or using social ostracization as punishment. That gets dark quickly

I cant imagine the resources, money, and time this takes. In my heyday, I really was into this band, but even that would have some limits.
And I thought GA was a protected lottery system. How do people get it for all shows?

Spartanacus · May 12

Has this ever been done by any band before? Have essentially two different areas in GA...the first will be for maybe four rows of seats (with bottoms that fold up for ease of standing/dancing) right up front. Award the first three rows strictly to random Ten Club members, and the fourth row can be for the VIPs. Then behind them is the open pit. This way you'll get new blood up front and you won't have the 100+ show rail weirdos doing what they do (at least not as much of it). You'd think the band would get sick of looking at the same nerds every night.

on2legs · May 12

Random wristbands would end the entitlement and toxic behavior.

Get_Right · May 12

Just eliminate the lining up, camping out, special entrance for GA etc. Enter through normal gates with everyone else. Much easier for security to ask people to move along and secure entry points than to try and manage a line that self governs. And no running or you get ejected. The sense of entitlement just seems to get worse and worse, and not just in PJ GA lines.

Go Animal · May 12

on2legs said:

Random wristbands would end the entitlement and toxic behavior.

Random wristbands would end the entitlement and toxic behavior.

Go Animal · May 12

Get_Right said:

Just eliminate the lining up, camping out, special entrance for GA etc. Enter through normal gates with everyone else. Much easier for security to ask people to move along and secure entry points than to try and manage a line that self governs. And no running or you get ejected. The sense of entitlement just seems to get worse and worse, and not just in PJ GA lines.

I'm good with this. There's already plenty of security. This is doable.

just_one · May 12

There was this incident in barcelona night 2 last year when 2 persons(which were camping before doors open) before murder capital were taken out by security (we were already inside the venue) just to return a couple minutes after , it was unbelievable

gndcd402 · May 12

Leezestarr313 said:

GlowGirl said:

Go Animal said:

There's one older gentleman who I will refrain from mentioning his name who treats this as a club, and he's the elder/wise man/decision maker. You know who I'm talking about.

Call him out. WTF is this, are we at school? I am so glad I was never a rail hog. I would still like the old front row lottery back. I thought it was cool to only know at the venue where you ended up.

He's also an admin of pjbay and buys up all the city specific merch and flips it on there. Ironic that the first rule of pjbay is "don't be an asshole"

julieooliern · May 12

demetrios said:

on2legs said:

What did we miss? No Facebook over here.

Sheesh, I thought we left middle school behind a long time ago. Sad to hear this.

Chrrie · May 12

So the main issue not mentioned in the Facebook post is there were two competing lines, both started by people who did not go to the show last night and none of those people wanted to concede their spot.

John and a couple others started the line at the camping spot which is a couple hundred yards away from the arena. Two other people started the line at the arena GA entrance which is what everyone else joined after the show. The confrontation occurred when the two groups of people tried to figure out how to merge. John refused to talk to anyone from the start and just kept saying “I can’t hear you I have headphones in” whenever anyone tried to engage him in conversation which definitely didn’t deescalate things but when I went to sleep I had the understanding that John was going to be first in line.

I guess at some point a couple hours later after most people were sleeping John bailed and left his things behind saying there were “bad vibes”. The two other people that lined up with John are still here though and everything is completely normal and they’re sitting with us now.

Everyone that I know in line wanted to let John and those other people stay in front. He wasn’t exactly friendly about it though which means that confrontation was basically inevitable given all the personalities involved. All of the “bad vibes” that I’ve personally witnessed always happens when you have people rolling up ready to be defensive, stubborn and argumentative rather than trying to work to a solution that works for everyone with regards to the competing line situation.

jdopj · May 12

This is always going to happen when there isn’t an official process and the people that make “the rules” are heavily invested in the outcome. It’s a broken system. The reason GA started in the first place was to mix up the dynamic is front but that has failed miserably.

lmckenney24 · May 12

I’m not going to write a lot, but in my experience (whether I’d be trying for the rail, or strolling in and 75th in line) has always been positive. Two sides to almost every story.

The same group who is upfront every show is always the same group who will let kids or wives up front on the rail (not just for a song, but for multiple times during a show, I’ve seen it first hand).

Point is, I don’t think the group who camps out and puts in the time every show should be lumped together in a negative manner.

Merkin Baller · May 12

lmckenney24 said:

I’m not going to write a lot, but in my experience (whether I’d be trying to the rail, or strolling in and 75th in line) has always been positive. Two sides to almost every story.

The same group who is upfront every show is always the same group who will let kids or wives up front on the rail (not just for a song, but for multiple times during a show, I’ve seen it first hand).

Point is, I don’t think the group who camps out and puts in the time every show should be lumped together in a negative manner.

Agreed on all points.

dwjmu84 · May 12

I miss the days of reserved seating all the way up to the “rail”. We all know there arent going to be too many “next times” from here, so I hope folks try to act like adults all around and just enjoy being in the building.see you guys in line and in the pit tomorrow!

droptheleash9 · May 12

With the exception of @lmckenney24 and @HailHailVitalogy everyone I've encountered in the GA lineups has been extremely friendly and welcoming.

lmckenney24 · May 12

droptheleash9 said:

With the exception of @lmckenney24 and @HailHailVitalogy everyone I've encountered in the GA lineups has been extremely friendly and welcoming.

Hahahaha

on2legs · May 12

Chrrie said:

So the main issue not mentioned in the Facebook post is there were two competing lines, both started by people who did not go to the show last night and none of those people wanted to concede their spot.

John and a couple others started the line at the camping spot which is a couple hundred yards away from the arena. Two other people started the line at the arena GA entrance which is what everyone else joined after the show. The confrontation occurred when the two groups of people tried to figure out how to merge. John refused to talk to anyone from the start and just kept saying “I can’t hear you I have headphones in” whenever anyone tried to engage him in conversation which definitely didn’t deescalate things but when I went to sleep I had the understanding that John was going to be first in line.

I guess at some point a couple hours later after most people were sleeping John bailed and left his things behind saying there were “bad vibes”. The two other people that lined up with John are still here though and everything is completely normal and they’re sitting with us now.

Everyone that I know in line wanted to let John and those other people stay in front. He wasn’t exactly friendly about it though which means that confrontation was basically inevitable given all the personalities involved. All of the “bad vibes” that I’ve personally witnessed always happens when you have people rolling up ready to be defensive, stubborn and argumentative rather than trying to work to a solution that works for everyone with regards to the competing line situation.

Are they first in line?

Chrrie · May 12

on2legs said:

Chrrie said:

So the main issue not mentioned in the Facebook post is there were two competing lines, both started by people who did not go to the show last night and none of those people wanted to concede their spot.

John and a couple others started the line at the camping spot which is a couple hundred yards away from the arena. Two other people started the line at the arena GA entrance which is what everyone else joined after the show. The confrontation occurred when the two groups of people tried to figure out how to merge. John refused to talk to anyone from the start and just kept saying “I can’t hear you I have headphones in” whenever anyone tried to engage him in conversation which definitely didn’t deescalate things but when I went to sleep I had the understanding that John was going to be first in line.

I guess at some point a couple hours later after most people were sleeping John bailed and left his things behind saying there were “bad vibes”. The two other people that lined up with John are still here though and everything is completely normal and they’re sitting with us now.

Everyone that I know in line wanted to let John and those other people stay in front. He wasn’t exactly friendly about it though which means that confrontation was basically inevitable given all the personalities involved. All of the “bad vibes” that I’ve personally witnessed always happens when you have people rolling up ready to be defensive, stubborn and argumentative rather than trying to work to a solution that works for everyone with regards to the competing line situation.

Are they first in line?

It’s my understanding that they tried to merge the lines fairly: the people who did not go to the show are first (which was John who left last night but came back just now actually), followed by the two people who started the line outside the area. The couple behind John did go to the show so they were integrated somewhere in the top 5 based on when they said they left. No one else left the show early so we’re in order of when we got in line.

pjl44 · May 12

Every tour one of these stories bubbles up then a half dozen related stories flow out after it then people who are actually in the mix insist it's not really happening and a total lovefest. Some combo of gaslighting and/or protecting one's interests I'm sure but good luck to anyone mental enough to get involved.

Pearl Jam is obviously not responsible for the behavior of their most obsessive fans but maybe a return to seating with random rows or doing random GA lineup draws is in order.

JimmyV · May 12

Chrrie said:

on2legs said:

Chrrie said:

So the main issue not mentioned in the Facebook post is there were two competing lines, both started by people who did not go to the show last night and none of those people wanted to concede their spot.

John and a couple others started the line at the camping spot which is a couple hundred yards away from the arena. Two other people started the line at the arena GA entrance which is what everyone else joined after the show. The confrontation occurred when the two groups of people tried to figure out how to merge. John refused to talk to anyone from the start and just kept saying “I can’t hear you I have headphones in” whenever anyone tried to engage him in conversation which definitely didn’t deescalate things but when I went to sleep I had the understanding that John was going to be first in line.

I guess at some point a couple hours later after most people were sleeping John bailed and left his things behind saying there were “bad vibes”. The two other people that lined up with John are still here though and everything is completely normal and they’re sitting with us now.

Everyone that I know in line wanted to let John and those other people stay in front. He wasn’t exactly friendly about it though which means that confrontation was basically inevitable given all the personalities involved. All of the “bad vibes” that I’ve personally witnessed always happens when you have people rolling up ready to be defensive, stubborn and argumentative rather than trying to work to a solution that works for everyone with regards to the competing line situation.

Are they first in line?

It’s my understanding that they tried to merge the lines fairly: the people who did not go to the show are first (which was John who left last night but came back just now actually), followed by the two people who started the line outside the area. The couple behind John did go to the show so they were integrated somewhere in the top 5 based on when they said they left. No one else left the show early so we’re in order of when we got in line.

He left at some point during the night and now he's back and up front? Am I understanding correctly?

Vedder4Prez · May 12

pjl44 said:

Every tour one of these stories bubbles up then a half dozen related stories flow out after it then people who are actually in the mix insist it's not really happening and a total lovefest. Some combo of gaslighting and/or protecting one's interests I'm sure but good luck to anyone mental enough to get involved.

Pearl Jam is obviously not responsible for the behavior of their most obsessive fans but maybe a return to seating with random rows or doing random GA lineup draws is in order.

Exactly.. truth comes out and quickly the handful jump on and make it sound like it's amazing and nothing is wrong..

Chrrie · May 12

pjl44 said:

Every tour one of these stories bubbles up then a half dozen related stories flow out after it then people who are actually in the mix insist it's not really happening and a total lovefest. Some combo of gaslighting and/or protecting one's interests I'm sure but good luck to anyone mental enough to get involved.

Pearl Jam is obviously not responsible for the behavior of their most obsessive fans but maybe a return to seating with random rows or doing random GA lineup draws is in order.

It’s definitely not always a lovefest but the stories I’ve read about things I’ve been around for usually didn’t occur the exact way people say they did.

Chrrie · May 12

JimmyV said:

Chrrie said:

on2legs said:

Chrrie said:

So the main issue not mentioned in the Facebook post is there were two competing lines, both started by people who did not go to the show last night and none of those people wanted to concede their spot.

John and a couple others started the line at the camping spot which is a couple hundred yards away from the arena. Two other people started the line at the arena GA entrance which is what everyone else joined after the show. The confrontation occurred when the two groups of people tried to figure out how to merge. John refused to talk to anyone from the start and just kept saying “I can’t hear you I have headphones in” whenever anyone tried to engage him in conversation which definitely didn’t deescalate things but when I went to sleep I had the understanding that John was going to be first in line.

I guess at some point a couple hours later after most people were sleeping John bailed and left his things behind saying there were “bad vibes”. The two other people that lined up with John are still here though and everything is completely normal and they’re sitting with us now.

Everyone that I know in line wanted to let John and those other people stay in front. He wasn’t exactly friendly about it though which means that confrontation was basically inevitable given all the personalities involved. All of the “bad vibes” that I’ve personally witnessed always happens when you have people rolling up ready to be defensive, stubborn and argumentative rather than trying to work to a solution that works for everyone with regards to the competing line situation.

Are they first in line?

It’s my understanding that they tried to merge the lines fairly: the people who did not go to the show are first (which was John who left last night but came back just now actually), followed by the two people who started the line outside the area. The couple behind John did go to the show so they were integrated somewhere in the top 5 based on when they said they left. No one else left the show early so we’re in order of when we got in line.

He left at some point during the night and now he's back and up front? Am I understanding correctly?

No he decided to set up his sent at the end of the line which is idk maybe 20th

darwinstheory · May 12

PJNB said:

GlowGirl said:

PJNB said:

GlowGirl said:

Go Animal said:

GlowGirl said:

I am not in Raleigh so I can’t speak to this incident. But I have been camping out and have been near the front of the GA line for all the other shows so far this tour. I have not seen any of this bad behavior. Everyone has been really nice and helpful and orderly when it comes to the line. People help each other out with food, merch, setting tents up, etc. It’s been really fun. The only altercation I saw was when a person tried to hold a spot for someone who didn’t stay out the whole time. He snuck her into the front of the line and security made her leave the line. Other than that there has been no issues that I could see. I’m sure some people have had bad experiences for whatever reason - but that is no reason to criticize a whole group of really nice people.

Speaking for myself, I don't lump you into the toxic/obsessed/entitled portion of the rail gang, M*****. You're hardcore (and even get seats sometimes to mix it up!) but this still happened, and incidents like it have happened before.

There's one older gentleman who I will refrain from mentioning his name who treats this as a club, and he's the elder/wise man/decision maker. You know who I'm talking about.

And unless we're friends with him, or help him & his crew get GA spares, we (the regular ass/semi-obsessed fans) are outcast & shunned. Like the poor bastard who posted on FB.

I absolutely believe the incident happened the way he wrote it, because he's not asking for anything. He just shared he experience & left. That's shameful.

Meanwhile, under the guise of familiarity, some regulars wield their influence to get everything they want. And people who dream of doing GA just ONCE (all-time, or in a long time) are left out, dejected & felt like they don't belong to the club.

I would rather piss off 5, 50, or 500 rail gang fans & help get things changed up, than have ONE fan feeling the way that guy feels today.

Thanks for the kind words. Like I said, I wasn’t there so I don’t know the other side of the story. I just can’t imagine the people I know who were queuing up acting like that. During this tour there have been several people new to camping and the group and they were wholeheartedly welcomed. I can only speak from my own experiences. Obviously, everyone has different views and experiences. But most of the people who camp out in the queue are good people. I really have to stress that point.

Were the new people at the front of the line?

Top 15-20. Maybe not first in line but some were ahead of the regulars.

That first spot means so much to some it seems.

I agree here. I think what you're saying is "they are friendly as long as you’re behind them. Less likely so if you’re in front of them." I think it would be hilarious if they showed up and a group of 15 people were already there.

JimmyV · May 12

Chrrie said:

JimmyV said:

Chrrie said:

on2legs said:

Chrrie said:

So the main issue not mentioned in the Facebook post is there were two competing lines, both started by people who did not go to the show last night and none of those people wanted to concede their spot.

John and a couple others started the line at the camping spot which is a couple hundred yards away from the arena. Two other people started the line at the arena GA entrance which is what everyone else joined after the show. The confrontation occurred when the two groups of people tried to figure out how to merge. John refused to talk to anyone from the start and just kept saying “I can’t hear you I have headphones in” whenever anyone tried to engage him in conversation which definitely didn’t deescalate things but when I went to sleep I had the understanding that John was going to be first in line.

I guess at some point a couple hours later after most people were sleeping John bailed and left his things behind saying there were “bad vibes”. The two other people that lined up with John are still here though and everything is completely normal and they’re sitting with us now.

Everyone that I know in line wanted to let John and those other people stay in front. He wasn’t exactly friendly about it though which means that confrontation was basically inevitable given all the personalities involved. All of the “bad vibes” that I’ve personally witnessed always happens when you have people rolling up ready to be defensive, stubborn and argumentative rather than trying to work to a solution that works for everyone with regards to the competing line situation.

Are they first in line?

It’s my understanding that they tried to merge the lines fairly: the people who did not go to the show are first (which was John who left last night but came back just now actually), followed by the two people who started the line outside the area. The couple behind John did go to the show so they were integrated somewhere in the top 5 based on when they said they left. No one else left the show early so we’re in order of when we got in line.

He left at some point during the night and now he's back and up front? Am I understanding correctly?

No he decided to set up his sent at the end of the line which is idk maybe 20th

Gotcha.

MayDay10 · May 12

I have queued up overnight once, and it was a tense atmosphere, and I definitely felt eyeballs and conspiracy the entire time. I felt like I was an unwanted intruder. I was in front of others, and everyone all around me knew one another. On the way in, someone (a woman who had an aggressive conflict with someone else in the AM) behind me ran in front of me, grabbed a better spot. I was next to her and she ended up crowbarring like 2-3 others in there and I had to stand sideways most of the night not having any room.

I would rather the 10c trashed the entire GA system. Adds way too much tension for too many people. It is clear there is a group who manipulate the system to snag the best seats for every single show. At Wrigley '18 there was a nasty element too with people groping women and all that.

KJ228171 · May 12

on2legs said:

Random wristbands would end the entitlement and toxic behavior.

Go Animal said:

on2legs said:

Random wristbands would end the entitlement and toxic behavior.

Random wristbands would end the entitlement and toxic behavior.

I like the idea but they would probably make duplicates of all variants. Some people were doing that for shows for one of the current Pop princesses that issues colored wristband and randomly picks the one that enters first.

on2legs · May 12

Chrrie said:

on2legs said:

Chrrie said:

So the main issue not mentioned in the Facebook post is there were two competing lines, both started by people who did not go to the show last night and none of those people wanted to concede their spot.

John and a couple others started the line at the camping spot which is a couple hundred yards away from the arena. Two other people started the line at the arena GA entrance which is what everyone else joined after the show. The confrontation occurred when the two groups of people tried to figure out how to merge. John refused to talk to anyone from the start and just kept saying “I can’t hear you I have headphones in” whenever anyone tried to engage him in conversation which definitely didn’t deescalate things but when I went to sleep I had the understanding that John was going to be first in line.

I guess at some point a couple hours later after most people were sleeping John bailed and left his things behind saying there were “bad vibes”. The two other people that lined up with John are still here though and everything is completely normal and they’re sitting with us now.

Everyone that I know in line wanted to let John and those other people stay in front. He wasn’t exactly friendly about it though which means that confrontation was basically inevitable given all the personalities involved. All of the “bad vibes” that I’ve personally witnessed always happens when you have people rolling up ready to be defensive, stubborn and argumentative rather than trying to work to a solution that works for everyone with regards to the competing line situation.

Are they first in line?

It’s my understanding that they tried to merge the lines fairly: the people who did not go to the show are first (which was John who left last night but came back just now actually), followed by the two people who started the line outside the area. The couple behind John did go to the show so they were integrated somewhere in the top 5 based on when they said they left. No one else left the show early so we’re in order of when we got in line.

Glad they made it near the front. Thank you for reporting back.

pjl44 · May 12

Chrrie said:

pjl44 said:

Every tour one of these stories bubbles up then a half dozen related stories flow out after it then people who are actually in the mix insist it's not really happening and a total lovefest. Some combo of gaslighting and/or protecting one's interests I'm sure but good luck to anyone mental enough to get involved.

Pearl Jam is obviously not responsible for the behavior of their most obsessive fans but maybe a return to seating with random rows or doing random GA lineup draws is in order.

It’s definitely not always a lovefest but the stories I’ve read about things I’ve been around for usually didn’t occur the exact way people say they did.

Whatever that amounts to, sure

Vedder4Prez · May 12

MayDay10 said:

I have queued up overnight once, and it was a tense atmosphere, and I definitely felt eyeballs and conspiracy the entire time. I felt like I was an unwanted intruder. I was in front of others, and everyone all around me knew one another. On the way in, someone (a woman who had an aggressive conflict with someone else in the AM) behind me ran in front of me, grabbed a better spot. I was next to her and she ended up crowbarring like 2-3 others in there and I had to stand sideways most of the night not having any room.

I would rather the 10c trashed the entire GA system. Adds way too much tension for too many people. It is clear there is a group who manipulate the system to snag the best seats for every single show. At Wrigley '18 there was a nasty element too with people groping women and all that.

And saying they deserved the rail after the rain delay.. showed pics from their phones of where they were and tried to force people to move. luckily everyone held their spot and didn't give in.

Same folks up front

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