State of elections since 2020
Comments
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Didn't notice that....oddmickeyrat said:Gern Blansten said:wait. she served as her own campaign manager? in theory , legally allowed to draw a salary from that role?new and inventive ways to grift.....Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
I'll take a breath, and parties aren't fun when your region just transformed in gop country after all these years and people believing gop lies like bail reform. It ain't just looking at election results, people are actually talking about and believing this trash
It was an ok election for dems, but to ignore clear warning signs and celebrate and believe trump is done is a bit absurd0 -
I get what your saying....but I do feel much better after this election. Things did go the Dems way overall. Losing the House sucks but it was expected and the GOP majority is so small they won't get anything done except fight internally. McCarthy has already tried to bribe a Dem to switch to GOP.Lerxst1992 said:I'll take a breath, and parties aren't fun when your region just transformed in gop country after all these years and people believing gop lies like bail reform. It ain't just looking at election results, people are actually talking about and believing this trash
It was an ok election for dems, but to ignore clear warning signs and celebrate and believe trump is done is a bit absurd
I'm excited because a lot of what I hoped would happen (GenZ vote) did come through. I really do believe we are seeing the beginning of the end of the Magat movement.Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
I hope that Trump doesn't think he's done.Lerxst1992 said:I'll take a breath, and parties aren't fun when your region just transformed in gop country after all these years and people believing gop lies like bail reform. It ain't just looking at election results, people are actually talking about and believing this trash
It was an ok election for dems, but to ignore clear warning signs and celebrate and believe trump is done is a bit absurd
He's toxic.0 -
We had the same garbage shoveled down our throats outside of Philadelphia nonstop for months....dems ending up winning gov by a landslide, flipped a red senate seat, won all contested congressional seats, and won the state house for the first time in over a decade.Lerxst1992 said:I'll take a breath, and parties aren't fun when your region just transformed in gop country after all these years and people believing gop lies like bail reform. It ain't just looking at election results, people are actually talking about and believing this trash
It was an ok election for dems, but to ignore clear warning signs and celebrate and believe trump is done is a bit absurd
I don't think it was just an ok election. It was literally historic in context.Post edited by The Juggler onwww.myspace.com0 -
I'd call it both a dodged bullet and a big win. Big when for the Dems in a traditionally red state but a dodged bullet because of just how willing Lake is to burn it all down because "MAGA." (Whereas if it were some sort of John Kasich type character, it would be just as big of a win but not as much of a bullet dodged)mrussel1 said:
Dodged a bullet? The governorship in AZ has been red for a decade. This was another big win.Lerxst1992 said:AZ called for Hobbs. Dems dodge a big bullet with Lake losing
Either way, it's awesome to see her lose. Along with even scarier Mastriano in PA.
I feel better this year than I did in 2020. Not only did the Dems out-perform expectations/history, but a lot of the worst of the worst lost. Election deniers and Trump devotees performed particularly poorly and I am hopeful that middle-of-the-road types (and people less obsessed than most of us, LOL) grew tired of election deniers, J6 excusers, and culture warriors.
That said, I would not be me if I didn't agree with Lerxst that optimism should be cautious. I really do think there's still some strange fascination with autocracy. I'm disappointed that Texas was still just as Texas as always, nervous that Florida looks way far gone, and also nervous about places like NY state and Iowa.1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley0 -
POOTWH has assembled a formidable team and is announcing this evening from Mar-I-Lieo. The dark money in politics is horrendous. The late Adelson gave $100 million to POOTWH super PACs. Couple that cash with Elongitaint’s twatter mis/disinformation and POOTWH ain’t going away. Neither is his “movement.”09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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He's going to fracture the party. It will be beautiful.Halifax2TheMax said:POOTWH has assembled a formidable team and is announcing this evening from Mar-I-Lieo. The dark money in politics is horrendous. The late Adelson gave $100 million to POOTWH super PACs. Couple that cash with Elongitaint’s twatter mis/disinformation and POOTWH ain’t going away. Neither is his “movement.”0 -
I tend to agree that it will be entertaining to watch POOTWH versus Deathsantis but the danger lies in them forming a pact, a La Hitler/Stalin, keeping the focus of their campaigns on the common enemy of the “other” and Deathsantis wins the nomination as the “sane” alternative. Ideologically they are the same and Deathsantis will have favors to return to the POOTWH wing. How much of this slugfest appeals to Reagan dems and indys remains to be seen.mrussel1 said:
He's going to fracture the party. It will be beautiful.Halifax2TheMax said:POOTWH has assembled a formidable team and is announcing this evening from Mar-I-Lieo. The dark money in politics is horrendous. The late Adelson gave $100 million to POOTWH super PACs. Couple that cash with Elongitaint’s twatter mis/disinformation and POOTWH ain’t going away. Neither is his “movement.”09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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Gift article continues
Philip Wallach is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.
Heading into this midterm election cycle, most forecasters expected House Republicans to gain 20 or 30 seats, giving them a comfortable majority. Instead, they find themselves scrapping for every last seat in hopes of getting a bare majority of 218, with a cushion of a few seats beyond that if they are lucky. This disappointing performance can be attributed — at least in part — to Donald Trump’s influence on candidate selection. But just how much?
We can put a number on it by seeing how Trump-supported candidates did relative to those Republicans he did not endorse. If we look at all 401 contests in which a single Democrat faced a single Republican, there is not much difference. Relative to baseline expectations derived from their districts’ recent voting patterns (as calculated by the Cook Partisan Voting Index), 144 Trump-endorsed candidates exceeded their baselines by an average of 1.52 points. In 257 races where Trump did not endorse a general-election candidate, Republicans exceeded their baseline by 1.46 points.
But that similarity is driven mainly by Trump’s endorsements of many Republicans cruising to easy reelection in uncompetitive districts. If we focus exclusively on districts where the margin of victory was less than 15 points, such that the seat was conceivably in the balance, the picture that emerges is quite different.
In these 114 districts, candidates bearing Trump endorsements underperformed their baseline by a whopping five points, while Republicans who were without Trump’s blessing overperformed their baseline by 2.2 points — a remarkable difference of more than seven points.
To give a clearer sense of what this cost House Republicans, we can examine the election returns visually. In the chart below, the lower-right-hand quadrant shows races in which Republicans lost (the Republican margin was negative) even though the district had favored Republicans in recent elections (the expected Republican margin was positive):
Considering only competitive
races, with margin of victory
or loss below 15 points,
most Trump-endorsed
candidates underperformed
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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I think the chance of them forming a pact is nil. Trump would only do that if it benefits him in some way. He truly believes he is the face of the party, so his view will be Desantis has nothing to offer him by doing so (that we know about).By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
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Zero chance. Who’s going to play second? Even if Ron was inclined to be VP, he saw what happened to Pence.HughFreakingDillon said:I think the chance of them forming a pact is nil. Trump would only do that if it benefits him in some way. He truly believes he is the face of the party, so his view will be Desantis has nothing to offer him by doing so (that we know about).0 -
How far right will Deathsantis have to turn to placate the POOTWH’ers?HughFreakingDillon said:I think the chance of them forming a pact is nil. Trump would only do that if it benefits him in some way. He truly believes he is the face of the party, so his view will be Desantis has nothing to offer him by doing so (that we know about).09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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I hope so. In a strange way, I'm cheering for Trump right now. I want him to remain relevant after wishing for so long he'd just go away.mrussel1 said:
He's going to fracture the party. It will be beautiful.Halifax2TheMax said:POOTWH has assembled a formidable team and is announcing this evening from Mar-I-Lieo. The dark money in politics is horrendous. The late Adelson gave $100 million to POOTWH super PACs. Couple that cash with Elongitaint’s twatter mis/disinformation and POOTWH ain’t going away. Neither is his “movement.”1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley0 -
They’re both giant asshole narcissists and one isn’t going to take a back seat to the other in a pact. DeSantis will either defer out to 2028 or decide he’s going all out against Trump for 2024. Before deciding he’ll probably wait and gauge Trump’s popularity via polling and his own nationwide appeal. He’ll also measure this against who else is running. If the field is 8-10 repubs, it’ll repeat 2016 and Trump will likely get the nomination.Halifax2TheMax said:
I tend to agree that it will be entertaining to watch POOTWH versus Deathsantis but the danger lies in them forming a pact, a La Hitler/Stalin, keeping the focus of their campaigns on the common enemy of the “other” and Deathsantis wins the nomination as the “sane” alternative. Ideologically they are the same and Deathsantis will have favors to return to the POOTWH wing. How much of this slugfest appeals to Reagan dems and indys remains to be seen.mrussel1 said:
He's going to fracture the party. It will be beautiful.Halifax2TheMax said:POOTWH has assembled a formidable team and is announcing this evening from Mar-I-Lieo. The dark money in politics is horrendous. The late Adelson gave $100 million to POOTWH super PACs. Couple that cash with Elongitaint’s twatter mis/disinformation and POOTWH ain’t going away. Neither is his “movement.”0 -
Is it possible for Florida to turn further to the right as it is now?Halifax2TheMax said:
How far right will Deathsantis have to turn to placate the POOTWH’ers?HughFreakingDillon said:I think the chance of them forming a pact is nil. Trump would only do that if it benefits him in some way. He truly believes he is the face of the party, so his view will be Desantis has nothing to offer him by doing so (that we know about).www.myspace.com0 -
I agree with the past number of posts.
Trump will not allow in a million years to take a backseat to Desantis, someone who in Trump's mind he created and therefore is better-than. Trump wont take a back seat to anybody.
So that leaves the question... will Desantis fold his tent and be a VP to Trump? Maybe. It sounds like they are about to get personal though and I don't see Trump extending the opportunity to someone who took shots at him in the primary. Trump has the mental makeup of a 4th grader. Desantis doesnt need trump right now, and is likely the preference of most Rs whether they admit it publicly or not.
Also, the problem (In R's eyes) with a Trump ticket is not the lack of Desantis. Its the presence of Trump. Trump will say and do ridiculous shit for the next 2 years and severely piss off about 55% of the country if not more. He will energize the D voters and anti-trump indys and Rs like no other, which results in a lost election, and it will likely cost them down-ballot as well.
So if Trump loses in a traditional sense to Desantis or Trump. Do we expect him to take a bow, throw his support behind that person, and gracefully exit? I wouldnt say that is impossible, but based on past actions and the mental makeup of this man, he is going to throw grenades all over the place and turn his followers on the party.
Republicans have created this Frankenstein monster through their extreme partisan gaming the system, allowing all sorts of crazy attacks on Obama like Birther and Muslim shit, nominated Palin, this created this Trump movement and this monster. Now he is going to turn on his masters and smash the lab.0 -
Desantis won't be a VP for tRump. No way.
I think the GOP will encourage him to run even though he probably isn't the best choice. They just want to make a break from tRump. My opinion but I think the GOP higher ups know that they need to break now. tRump is too old, stupid and corrupt to make their brand better.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
It’s hilarious that the GOP stood by Frankentrump for two elections and now they realize they can’t get him to move out of the way without creating a shit show for themselves!jesus greets me looks just like me ....0
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Think of all they put up with over the last 7 years...and it's finally the fact that they are coming to the realization, after 3 straight election losses, that they cannot win with him that is a bridge too far for many of them. Fucking hypocrites. All of them.josevolution said:It’s hilarious that the GOP stood by Frankentrump for two elections and now they realize they can’t get him to move out of the way without creating a shit show for themselves!
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