State of elections since 2020

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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,413
    OnWis97 said:
    That's too big to be a religious space lazer.
    Size doesn't  matter

    Or so I'm told

    lies told to the gullible.....
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  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,829
    edited July 2022
    mace1229 said:
    Zod said:
    I feel like this has been growing for some time.  20 years ago it felt like when Republicans won't an election, it was be patriotic, be American, and support you president.  If a democrat won, all those same people went quiet. 

    Now it's evolved to.. if our guy won the election is completely legitimate.  If anyone else won it's fraud.   Like it's inconceivable an election can be lost.  From the outside looking in, it seems pretty crazy.
    How is this different than 2016?
    I know the usuals are going to say I’m just both siding it. But I don’t see how anyone can deny that’s what happened from 2016-2020. So to only criticize one party doesn’t seem fair.
    Are you saying that people on the left claimed the election was rigged, stolen, a fraud? Asking for multiple recounts and filing multiple frivolous lawsuits?
    I don't recall that ever happening.
    I do recall democrats being freaked out that a con-artist with the solid backing of white supremacists and vlad poo tin won.

    In 2020 and I'm sure in every ensuing election in our lifetime the regressives will throw tantrums and scream "it was rigged" every time one of their candidates loses. But if they win, whether by 1 vote or a million, they will claim everything was perfect and it was a beautiful well run election.

    Did Clinton not concede within eight hours of election day 2016?

    it’s concerning middle right like mace have views such as “it’s both parties.” Clinton conceded immediately, and trump said six months before the election, thru today, “either I win or it’s rigged.” Has any democrat made that claim? Voting for that ace is supporting authoritarianism in America 

    the fact that trump asked for help from a murderous dictator and was subsequently investigated for that does not equate to the authoritarian rhetoric from republicans 
    To the bold. Yes. Hilary. Quoted below.
    Why does it come down to just what Hilary did? Do you not recal the many protests against the inauguration? The commercials featuring celebrities asking the EC not to actually vote the way their state did and essentially ignoring the election results? The record number of politicians who boycotted the inauguration? The many many people on social media saying a trump will never be their president?

    For 4 years we heard nothing but “this was won by misinformation, this election wasn’t legitimate.” Am I the only one who remembers that? It was pretty big news for 4 years.
    And you bring up Trump saying he won’t concede if he loses, did you forget Hilary said this in 2020 as well? ““Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch, and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is,”  Even prior to the 2030 election she referred to Trump as an illegitimate president and that it was stolen. I fail to see how you’re a consirpacy nut for saying that in 2020, but totally acceptable if it’s about 2016.
    Trying to delegitimilize the election in public opinion isn’t a one-sided strategy that started in 2020 like it’s being portrayed here.
    And for the record, Biden did win in 2020. Trump lost. I’m just saying this whole protesting the results isn’t as one sided as it’s being played out to be.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,413
    oh for fucks sake......


     
    Colorado GOP primary losers ask for another recount
    By NICHOLAS RICCARDI
    26 Jul 2022

    Two Republicans who baselessly suggested their losses in last month's GOP primaries in Colorado may be due to fraud filed their second round of requests for recounts on Tuesday.

    Mesa County Clerk Tina Peters and State Rep. Ron Hanks both echoed former President Donald Trump's lies about the 2020 election during their own races for their party's nomination for Colorado Secretary of State and U.S. Senate respectively. After they each lost by more than 40,000 votes, they requested a hand recount.

    The Colorado Secretary of State's office said their regulations required any recounts to be done by machine and that it'd cost $236,000. When the two candidates didn't pay, it proceeded with certification of their losses.

    On Tuesday, the Secretary of State's office released letters from Peters and Hanks insisting it wrongly rejected their hand recount requests, citing security flaws in voting machines used in Colorado. That has been a central part of the conspiracy theories the two candidates have promulgated. The Secretary of State's office had said those machines weren't used in the primary, but the two candidates disagreed.

     

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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,413

     
    Election staff abruptly quits, upending rural Texas county
    By PAUL J. WEBER
    Today

    FREDERICKSBURG , Texas (AP) — Part of why Terry Hamilton says he abruptly left his job running elections deep in Texas wine country is by now a familiar story in America: He became fed up with the harassment that followed the 2020 election.

    But this was no ordinary exit.

    On the brink of November’s midterm elections, it was not just Hamilton who up and quit this month but also the only other full-time election worker in rural Gillespie County. The sudden emptying of an entire local elections department came less than 70 days before voters start casting ballots.

    By the middle of last week, no one was left at the darkened and locked elections office in a metal building annex off the main road in Fredericksburg. A “Your Vote Counts” poster hung in a window by the door.

    A scramble is now underway to train replacements and ground them in layers of new Texas voting laws that are among the strictest in the U.S. That includes assistance from the Texas Secretary of State, whose spokesperson could not recall a similar instance in which an elections office was racing to start over with a completely new staff. But the headaches don't stop there.

    The resignations have more broadly made the county of roughly 27,000 residents — which overwhelmingly backed former President Donald Trump in 2020 — an extraordinary example of the fallout resulting from threats to election officials. Officials and voting experts worry that a new wave of harassment or worse will return in November, fueled by false claims of widespread fraud.

    Hamilton, who has clashed with poll watchers in Gillespie County in past elections, said he didn't want to go through it again.

    "That’s the one thing we can’t understand. Their candidate won, heavily,” Hamilton said. “But there’s fraud here?”

    He declined to discuss the nature of the threats in a phone interview, referring questions to the county attorney, who did not respond to a phone message. Gillespie County Sheriff Buddy Mills said neither his department nor police in Fredericksburg had received information about threats from elections officials.



    continues......


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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,413
    gift article....


     

    Mark Finchem Says Biden Didn’t Win in 2020, and He Has Big Plans for Elections in Arizona

    Sept. 12, 2022
    Image
    Mark Finchem
    Mark Finchem.Credit...Mark Peterson for The New York Times
    Katherine Miller

    By Katherine Miller

    Mark Finchem, the Republican nominee for Arizona secretary of state, talks a lot about tracking: procedures, processes, audits, the path a ballot takes from voter to tabulator.

    He’s a member of the Arizona state House of Representatives, and has a formal way of speaking, full of numerical legislation titles and terminology, but also talks about things seen and unseen. Like a number of other Republican nominees for secretary of state this year, Mr. Finchem claims the last election was fraudulent.

    “Here’s why we know it didn’t happen,” he told an interviewer who had just suggested Arizona may have actually voted for Joe Biden in 2020. “It’s nonsense intuitively. Leading up to the election, this would be August, September, October. It first started off that you’d see a Trump train of maybe a dozen cars, and this is in my community. It’s one community, but I think it’s fairly representative of Arizona. You’d see a Trump train of maybe a dozen cars.” The hosts start cracking jokes about Biden trains behind gas stations these days, but in the interview, Mr. Finchem remains undeterred and unlaughing: First it was 12 cars, then 24, then 48, culminating in a three-mile Trump train. This is the kind of thing Mr. Finchem will abruptly say amid talk of election procedure.


    continues.....


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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,413

     
    Congress eyes strongest response yet to Jan. 6 attack
    By MARY CLARE JALONICK
    Today

    WASHINGTON (AP) — House Democrats are voting this week on changes to a 19th century law for certifying presidential elections, their strongest legislative response yet to the Jan. 6 Capitol insurrection and former President Donald Trump’s efforts to overturn his 2020 election defeat.

    The vote to overhaul the Electoral Count Act, expected Wednesday, comes as a bipartisan group of senators is moving forward with a similar bill. Lawmakers in both parties have said they want to change the arcane law before it is challenged again.

    Trump and his allies tried to exploit the law’s vague language in the weeks after the election as they strategized how they could keep Joe Biden out of office, including by lobbying Vice President Mike Pence to simply object to the certification of Biden’s victory when Congress counted the votes on Jan. 6.

    Pence refused to do so, but it was clear afterward that there was no real legal framework, or recourse, to respond under the 1887 law if the vice president had tried to block the count. The House and Senate bills would better define the vice president’s ministerial role and make clear that he or she has no say in the final outcome.

    Both versions would also make it harder for lawmakers to object if they don’t like the results of an election, clarify laws that could allow a state's vote to be delayed, and ensure that there is only one slate of legal electors from each state. One strategy by Trump and his allies was to create alternate slates of electors in key states Biden won, with the ultimately unsuccessful idea that they could be voted on during the congressional certification on Jan. 6 and result in throwing the election back to Trump.

    "We've got to make this more straightforward to respect the will of the people," said Senate Rules Committee Chairman Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn., whose committee will hold a vote on the legislation bill next week.

    The bills are a response to the violence of that day, when a mob of Trump's supporters pushed past police, broke into the building and interrupted Biden's certification. The crowd was echoing Trump's false claims of widespread voter fraud and calling for Pence's death after it became clear that he wouldn't try to overturn the election.

    Democrats in both chambers have felt even more urgency on the issue as Trump is considering another run for president and is still claiming the election was stolen. Many Republicans say they believe him, even though 50 states certified Biden’s win and courts across the country rejected Trump’s false claims of widespread fraud.

    While the House vote is expected to fall mostly along party lines, the Senate bill has some Republican support and its backers are hopeful they will have the 10 votes they need to break a filibuster and pass it in the 50-50 Senate. But that could be tricky amid campaigning for the November midterm elections, and Republicans most aligned with Trump are certain to oppose it.

    The Senate Rules panel is expected to pass the measure next Tuesday, with some tweaks, though a floor vote will most likely wait until November or December, Klobuchar said.

    Even though they are similar, the House version is more expansive than the Senate bill and the two chambers will have some key differences that lawmakers will have to work out. The House legislation was introduced on Monday by House Administration Committee Chairwoman Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif., and Republican Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming, both members of the House panel that has been investigating the Jan. 6 insurrection.

    Like the Senate bill, the House legislation would require that there is a single set of electors from each state submitted by the governor. The House bill would also narrow the grounds on which members of Congress could object to any state's electoral votes and raise the threshold for how many objections would be needed. Currently, the House and Senate each debate and vote on whether to accept a state's electors if there is just one objection from each chamber.

    The House bill would require instead that a third of the House and a third of the Senate object to a particular state's electors in order to hold a vote. The Senate bill would require that a fifth of each chamber object.

    Two such votes were held on Jan. 6, 2021, after the rioters were cleared, because GOP Sens. Ted Cruz of Texas and Josh Hawley of Missouri joined dozens of House members in objecting to Biden's victories in Arizona and Pennsylvania. Both the House and Senate voted to certify the legitimate results.

    Lofgren said the American people should be deciding the election, not Congress.

    People who wanted to overturn the election “took advantage of ambiguous language as well as a low threshold to have Congress play a role that they really aren’t supposed to play,” she said.

    The general similarities of the House bill to the Senate version could be a signal that House members are willing to compromise to get the legislation passed. Some House members had criticized the Senate bill for not going far enough. Maryland Rep. Jamie Raskin, a member of both the Jan. 6 and House Administration committees, had said this summer that the Senate bill was not “remotely sufficient” to address the challenges presented by current law.

    House members know they will have to give in some, though, to pass it through the 50-50 Senate. The bill, which is sponsored by centrist Sens. Joe Manchin, D-W.V., and Susan Collins, R-Maine., already has the backing from 10 GOP senators.

    Collins said Monday, “I believe we can work this out, and I hope that we do so.”

    The bipartisan group of senators worked for months to find agreement on a way to revamp the process, eventually settling on a series of proposals introduced in July.

    Cheney, a frequent Trump critic who lost her Republican primary in August, told reporters on Tuesday that the House bill was “entirely bipartisan” as her staff worked closely with Lofgren and other Democrats. But it remains to be seen if any other House Republicans will vote for it, as many have stayed loyal to Trump.

    "We need to take steps that another Jan 6 never happens again," Cheney said.


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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,413

    gift article...
    seems one step closer to reality...


     
    McConnell, Schumer back bill to prevent efforts to subvert presidential election results
    By Amy B Wang
    September 27, 2022 at 17:44 ET
    Majority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) have endorsed a bipartisan electoral count reform bill in the Senate, all but cementing its passage and giving the legislation a boost as Congress seeks to prevent future efforts to subvert presidential election results.

    continues......


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat said:

    gift article...
    seems one step closer to reality...


     
    McConnell, Schumer back bill to prevent efforts to subvert presidential election results
    By Amy B Wang
    September 27, 2022 at 17:44 ET
    Majority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) have endorsed a bipartisan electoral count reform bill in the Senate, all but cementing its passage and giving the legislation a boost as Congress seeks to prevent future efforts to subvert presidential election results.

    continues......


    Meh. Moscow Mitchy Baby knows the states and their Secretary of States can fuck with the electors and if needed to guarantee a repub win, he won’t object. Seems mostly symbolic for a mostly symbolic process. Slates of state electors will be thrown into chaos instead.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,879
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Zod said:
    I feel like this has been growing for some time.  20 years ago it felt like when Republicans won't an election, it was be patriotic, be American, and support you president.  If a democrat won, all those same people went quiet. 

    Now it's evolved to.. if our guy won the election is completely legitimate.  If anyone else won it's fraud.   Like it's inconceivable an election can be lost.  From the outside looking in, it seems pretty crazy.
    How is this different than 2016?
    I know the usuals are going to say I’m just both siding it. But I don’t see how anyone can deny that’s what happened from 2016-2020. So to only criticize one party doesn’t seem fair.
    Are you saying that people on the left claimed the election was rigged, stolen, a fraud? Asking for multiple recounts and filing multiple frivolous lawsuits?
    I don't recall that ever happening.
    I do recall democrats being freaked out that a con-artist with the solid backing of white supremacists and vlad poo tin won.

    In 2020 and I'm sure in every ensuing election in our lifetime the regressives will throw tantrums and scream "it was rigged" every time one of their candidates loses. But if they win, whether by 1 vote or a million, they will claim everything was perfect and it was a beautiful well run election.

    Did Clinton not concede within eight hours of election day 2016?

    it’s concerning middle right like mace have views such as “it’s both parties.” Clinton conceded immediately, and trump said six months before the election, thru today, “either I win or it’s rigged.” Has any democrat made that claim? Voting for that ace is supporting authoritarianism in America 

    the fact that trump asked for help from a murderous dictator and was subsequently investigated for that does not equate to the authoritarian rhetoric from republicans 
    To the bold. Yes. Hilary. Quoted below.
    Why does it come down to just what Hilary did? Do you not recal the many protests against the inauguration? The commercials featuring celebrities asking the EC not to actually vote the way their state did and essentially ignoring the election results? The record number of politicians who boycotted the inauguration? The many many people on social media saying a trump will never be their president?

    For 4 years we heard nothing but “this was won by misinformation, this election wasn’t legitimate.” Am I the only one who remembers that? It was pretty big news for 4 years.
    And you bring up Trump saying he won’t concede if he loses, did you forget Hilary said this in 2020 as well? ““Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch, and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is,”  Even prior to the 2030 election she referred to Trump as an illegitimate president and that it was stolen. I fail to see how you’re a consirpacy nut for saying that in 2020, but totally acceptable if it’s about 2016.
    Trying to delegitimilize the election in public opinion isn’t a one-sided strategy that started in 2020 like it’s being portrayed here.
    And for the record, Biden did win in 2020. Trump lost. I’m just saying this whole protesting the results isn’t as one sided as it’s being played out to be.

    Sorry, missed this. Difference is Hilary conceded in 2016, trump did not in 2020. Regarding 2020, she is referring to the trump plan of claiming victory on election night before all votes are counted. I agree her language went too far, but I am not sure she supported a revolution to overthrow the results of the election, had trump won 270 electoral votes. She was imploring Biden to fight off trumps plan to rig the election by lying about fraud.
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    edited September 2022
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Zod said:
    I feel like this has been growing for some time.  20 years ago it felt like when Republicans won't an election, it was be patriotic, be American, and support you president.  If a democrat won, all those same people went quiet. 

    Now it's evolved to.. if our guy won the election is completely legitimate.  If anyone else won it's fraud.   Like it's inconceivable an election can be lost.  From the outside looking in, it seems pretty crazy.
    How is this different than 2016?
    I know the usuals are going to say I’m just both siding it. But I don’t see how anyone can deny that’s what happened from 2016-2020. So to only criticize one party doesn’t seem fair.
    Are you saying that people on the left claimed the election was rigged, stolen, a fraud? Asking for multiple recounts and filing multiple frivolous lawsuits?
    I don't recall that ever happening.
    I do recall democrats being freaked out that a con-artist with the solid backing of white supremacists and vlad poo tin won.

    In 2020 and I'm sure in every ensuing election in our lifetime the regressives will throw tantrums and scream "it was rigged" every time one of their candidates loses. But if they win, whether by 1 vote or a million, they will claim everything was perfect and it was a beautiful well run election.

    Did Clinton not concede within eight hours of election day 2016?

    it’s concerning middle right like mace have views such as “it’s both parties.” Clinton conceded immediately, and trump said six months before the election, thru today, “either I win or it’s rigged.” Has any democrat made that claim? Voting for that ace is supporting authoritarianism in America 

    the fact that trump asked for help from a murderous dictator and was subsequently investigated for that does not equate to the authoritarian rhetoric from republicans 
    To the bold. Yes. Hilary. Quoted below.
    Why does it come down to just what Hilary did? Do you not recal the many protests against the inauguration? The commercials featuring celebrities asking the EC not to actually vote the way their state did and essentially ignoring the election results? The record number of politicians who boycotted the inauguration? The many many people on social media saying a trump will never be their president?

    For 4 years we heard nothing but “this was won by misinformation, this election wasn’t legitimate.” Am I the only one who remembers that? It was pretty big news for 4 years.
    And you bring up Trump saying he won’t concede if he loses, did you forget Hilary said this in 2020 as well? ““Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch, and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is,”  Even prior to the 2030 election she referred to Trump as an illegitimate president and that it was stolen. I fail to see how you’re a consirpacy nut for saying that in 2020, but totally acceptable if it’s about 2016.
    Trying to delegitimilize the election in public opinion isn’t a one-sided strategy that started in 2020 like it’s being portrayed here.
    And for the record, Biden did win in 2020. Trump lost. I’m just saying this whole protesting the results isn’t as one sided as it’s being played out to be.

    Sorry, missed this. Difference is Hilary conceded in 2016, trump did not in 2020. Regarding 2020, she is referring to the trump plan of claiming victory on election night before all votes are counted. I agree her language went too far, but I am not sure she supported a revolution to overthrow the results of the election, had trump won 270 electoral votes. She was imploring Biden to fight off trumps plan to rig the election by lying about fraud.

    Thank for rationally explaining everything here. There is no bothsidesing this issue. Not even remotely close, although I didn't like what she said either. But, still, it's not the same thing. To insinuate that it is is just disingenuous. 
    Post edited by The Juggler on
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,413
    the following being the case, might I suggest you folks refuse to participate then.......


     
    False election claims overwhelm local efforts to push back
    By MORGAN LEE
    Today

    ESTANCIA, N.M. (AP) — Republican county commissioners in this swath of ranching country in New Mexico’s high desert have tried everything they can think of to persuade voters their elections are secure.

    They approved hand-counting of ballots from the primary election in their rural county, encouraged the public to observe security testing of ballot machines and tasked their county manager with overseeing those efforts to make sure they ran smoothly. None of that seems enough.

    Here and elsewhere, Republicans as well as Democrats are paying a price for former President Donald Trump's relentless complaints and false claims about the 2020 election he lost.

    Many Torrance County voters still don’t trust voting machines or election tallies, a conspiracy-fueled lack of faith that persists in rural areas across the U.S. Just weeks before consequential midterm elections, such widespread skepticism suggests that no matter the outcome, many Americans may not accept the results.

    “Confidence that that vote is accurately counted and tabulated is not there,” said Ryan Schwebach, a grain farmer who is chairman of the three-member, all-Republican Torrance County Board of County Commissioners.

    After a backlash this summer over the county’s certification of its primary results, Schwebach surveyed county residents who don’t attend public meetings. They, too, told him they weren’t sure they could trust election results.

    “It’s the overall system that comes into question,” he said. “So how do you challenge that, how do you get your answers?”

    The belief that voting machines are being manipulated to sway the outcome of races is being promoted by Trump and his allies, many of whom have been spreading conspiracy theories throughout the country for nearly two years.

    Their messages have penetrated deeply into the Republican Party, despite no evidence of manipulation or widespread fraud in the 2020 presidential election. That finding has been supported by multiple reviews in battleground states, by judges who have rejected dozens of court cases, by Trump’s own Department of Justice and top officials in his administration.

    The distrust erupted in Torrance County earlier this year, as commissioners were set to certify the results from the state’s June 7 primary. Torrance was among a handful of rural New Mexico counties that considered delaying certification as crowds gave voice to conspiracy theories surrounding voting equipment.

    Angry residents denounced the results and the commissioners’ certification at a meeting -- a vote taken after the county elections clerk reported that the local election was secure and accurate. Those in the audience hurled insults at the commissioners, calling them “cowards,” “traitors” and “rubber stamp puppets.”

    The commissioners responded to the vitriol by taking several unprecedented steps in an attempt to restore trust in voting and ballot counting.

    They ordered an independent recount of primary election results by hand and assigned the county manager to recruit veteran poll workers and volunteers for two days of eye-straining efforts to sort and tally ballot images, with additional recounts. They also had her oversee testing and certification of the county’s vote tabulators.

    “I’m kind of pioneering this, and I’m sure I’m not going to be perfect in it, but I can tell you that I’m trying,” said Janice Barela, the county manager overseeing the recount. “How do you know if it’s the hand tally that’s right? How do you know if it’s a tabulator that’s right? … What I’d like to see in all of this is the election process work.”

    It’s not clear whether her efforts will satisfy local doubts about the accuracy of elections — or add to them.

    Bill Mendenhall, a registered Republican nearing retirement age, said anger still smolders in the community over the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. Trump won two-thirds of the vote in Torrance County.

    “I don’t think it burns that hot, but it does burn,” said Mendenhall, a correctional officer at the maximum-security Penitentiary of New Mexico. He was tending to a small herd of goats beneath an old windmill on his 18-acre ranch. “Of the people I work with, 90% of them is angry. A lot of people think that Trump was cheated.”

    Brady Ness, a 37-year-old manager of a car dealership who grew up on a ranch in Estancia, said he does not trust Dominion Voting Systems machines that are used to tally paper ballots across New Mexico. The machines are a frequent target of conspiracy theories, and Ness hopes to see a transition to hand counting in future elections, though current state law mandates machine tallies.

    “Even if they’re Democrats or people I don’t like or get along with, I would trust them over machines,” Ness said.

    He recently left the Republican Party amid profound frustration with the state and federal governments, which he says are not serving the needs of the people.

    “I wouldn’t be shocked if we didn’t have a general election,” he said. “I think things in this country are falling apart very quickly.”

    At the same time, Bill Peifer, a local treasurer for the Democratic Party, warns that not everyone who questions the elections may have the same motive.

    “Some of the people casting doubt I think honestly don’t trust the machines,” he said. “And there are others who just want to make a mess.”

    The dour outlook in the county of 15,000 has been propelled by the same forces at work in many other states. In New Mexico, doubts about the 2020 election were fueled by a lawsuit from Trump’s campaign and a fake set of electors willing to certify him.

    More recently, an assortment of local and out-of-state Trump allies have held forums throughout the state promoting conspiracy theories, including former White House strategist Steve Bannon, MyPillow chief executive Mike Lindell and the Republican nominee for secretary of state, Audrey Trujillo.

    At the forefront is David Clements, a New Mexico-based former prosecutor and former college professor. At conventions, church gatherings and local forums, he advocates for eliminating electronic election equipment and exonerating many of the defendants charged in the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.

    At a presentation last month to about 60 people at a public library in Albuquerque, Clements described voting equipment in New Mexico as intentionally vulnerable to fraud and painted many county officials as complicit.

    “We’re never going to stop the bleeding unless we get rid of these machines,” he said. “It’s a foundational issue.”

    Deep-seated distrust in elections has inspired independent challengers in the November general elections for the seats held by Schwebach and Commissioner Kevin McCall. Both of their opponents have stated that Joe Biden was not legitimately elected president.

    McCall is seeking re-election while working long hours at his pumpkin farm, which features a haunted house for Halloween and employs more than 400 seasonal workers.

    “We care,” he said in a recent interview. “We put Janice on that to be the one sole job, to evaluate and provide trust in the election.”

    He expressed exasperation that the efforts do not seem to have paid off so far.

    “If they really want to replace me, replace me,” he said. “I’m not doing this for the money.”

    The county released results on Thursday from its hand count of primary ballots, showing discrepancies between those tallies and the machine count in June, though not enough to change individual races.

    Experts say machine tabulators have been shown to be more accurate than hand counts, which are susceptible to human error. Nevertheless, the results were greeted as vindication by doubters.

    “While the numbers are new information, the fact that machines are untrustworthy is not new,” declared Jennette Hunt of Estancia.

    ___

    Follow AP’s coverage of the elections at: https://apnews.com/hub/2022-midterm-elections'> https://apnews.com/hub/2022-midterm-elections

    Check out https://apnews.com/hub/explaining-the-elections to learn more about the issues and factors at play in the 2022 midterm elections.

    ___

    Follow the AP’s coverage of the 2022 midterms at https://apnews.com/hub/2022-midterm-elections'> https://apnews.com/hub/2022-midterm-elections and on Twitter, https://twitter.com/ap_politics


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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,413

     
    GOP voters told to hold onto mail ballots until Election Day
    By CHRISTINA A. CASSIDY and ALI SWENSON
    Today

    ATLANTA (AP) — Republican activists who believe the 2020 election was stolen from former President Donald Trump have crafted a plan that, in their telling, will thwart cheating in this year’s midterm elections.

    The strategy: Vote in person on Election Day or — for voters who receive a mailed ballot — hold onto it and hand it in at a polling place or election office on Nov. 8.

    The plan is based on unfounded conspiracy theories that fraudsters will manipulate voting systems to rig results for Democrats once they have seen how many Republican votes have been returned early. There has been no evidence of any such widespread fraud.

    If enough voters are dissuaded from casting ballots early, it could lead to long lines on Election Day and would push back processing of those late-arriving mailed ballots. Those ballots likely would not get counted until the next day or later.

    “It just slows everything down,” said Noah Praetz, the former election clerk in Cook County, Illinois, who now advises local election offices on best practices and security. “In many places, if you don’t get mail ballots in hand until Election Day, you are not counting them until after Election Day.”

    There is no evidence of widespread fraud, cheating or manipulation of voting machines in the 2020 election. Exhaustive reviews in the states disputed by Trump upheld Democrat Joe Biden’s win, and legal challenges pursued by the former president and his allies were rejected by numerous judges, including ones appointed by Republicans.

    That hasn’t stopped conspiracy theories that have spread over the last two years, fueled by Trump, allies including MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell and a crop of Republican candidates seeking office this year. The calls to hold onto ballots until the last minute have grown louder in recent weeks, according to a review of social media accounts by The Associated Press.

    “It’s a lot easier to catch any fraud,” Lindell, who has promoted the last-minute voting strategy on podcasts, told the AP in a recent interview. Lindell, through various events, has sought to prove that voting machines were manipulated to favor Biden in 2020.

    Trump also has weighed in, saying at a recent rally that voting on Election Day was best because “it’s much harder for them to cheat that way.”

    The strategy push by conservatives comes after the use of mailed ballots soared during the 2020 election amid the COVID-19 pandemic. The end of pandemic restrictions, Trump's attacks on mailed ballots and new voting restrictions in some Republican-led states has led to a decline in the use of mailed ballots this year, but it still remains a popular option for many voters.

    Experts say a last-minute crush of ballots could end up creating delays that can be used by a bad actor to undermine confidence in the election.

    “It’s an opening for people to begin questioning and stoking mistrust and distrust," said Chris Piper, former commissioner of the Virginia Department of Elections.

    Discouraging early voting and encouraging voters to hold onto their mailed ballots until Election Day runs counter to efforts by most campaigns. Republican and Democratic candidates alike typically want to have as many ballots in hand as possible heading into Election Day so they can focus their efforts on getting stragglers to the polls and persuading undecided voters.

    The dueling approaches have resulted in a confusing array of messages for Republican voters.

    In Georgia, a recent online flier by one grassroots group read: “Voting in person and on Election Day is the only way to overwhelm the system.” A conservative group in the state, VoterGA, told its members to “protect” their votes by applying for an absentee ballot early and waiting to deliver it until Election Day.

    The chair of the state Republican Party, David Shafer, recently tweeted on the party’s official account: “Voting in-person early is just as safe as voting in-person on Election Day!”

    The cross-messaging also is hitting Republican voters in Arizona, which has high-stakes races this year for U.S. Senate, governor and secretary of state. Mail voting has been popular there among voters of both parties for years.

    State Sen. Wendy Rogers, a Republican who backed a partisan review of 2020 ballots in Maricopa County, told viewers of One America News Network earlier this month that “we need to vote on the last day, the day of Election Day, so they don’t know how much to cheat by.”

    But her party’s top candidates -- who also have embraced false claims about the 2020 election -- have recently tried to counter that strategy.

    “If you have a mail-in ballot, I think that you should mail it in. I want people to vote,” Kari Lake, the Republican nominee for governor, told reporters this month. “And vote whatever way you want to vote, but vote.”

    Lake has been among those calling for a rollback in mailed ballots and early voting, favoring instead a single day of in-person voting. Blake Masters, the Republican candidate for Senate in Arizona who also has Trump’s support, said it’s fine to vote by mail if that’s what a voter prefers.

    “I want to know results on election night,” Masters told reporters earlier this month. “I’m telling people vote in person, if you can. If not, vote early and return via mail. And let’s know the result.”

    It’s unclear whether the messaging for Republicans to hold onto their mailed ballots is having an effect. In two politically important states, the return rate for mailed ballots is slower than in previous elections — although it also could mean voters there remain undecided.

    In Georgia, about 23% of mailed ballots have been returned with just over two weeks before Election Day compared to about 35% at about the same time in 2020 and almost 37% in 2018. As of Oct. 19 in Wisconsin, 45% of mailed ballots had been returned compared to 56% in at the same point 2020 and 2018.

    Some Democrats also have advocated submitting ballots at the last minute — but based more on a political strategy than claims of fraud.

    Pam Keith, an attorney, Democratic activist and former congressional candidate in Florida, said she thinks the predictability that Democrats will vote by mail gives Republicans an early hint at turnout levels. That’s why she is advocating for a surge of ballots at the last minute, catching Republicans off guard.

    “By voting early, we are showing our hand,” Keith said. “We show what our turnout number is going to be. And if they know that the overwhelming majority of vote-by-mail ballots are in, then they know what they need to do to win.”

    Keith’s advice strayed from that of many Democratic candidates, who have encouraged their supporters to vote early and by mail.

    ___

    Swenson reported from New York. Associated Press writers Jonathan J. Cooper in Phoenix and Scott Bauer in Madison, Wisconsin, contributed to this report.

    ___

    Follow AP’s coverage of the elections at: https://apnews.com/hub/2022-midterm-elections. And check out https://apnews.com/hub/explaining-the-elections to learn more about the issues and factors at play in the 2022 midterm elections.


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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,199
    edited October 2022
    And so it begins.

    RICHMOND — State elections officials directed more than 30,000 Northern Virginia voters to the wrong polling place in mailers sent ahead of the Nov. 8 midterm elections, an error they acknowledged Friday and blamed on the private printing company that produced the notices.

    Those mistakes follow even more error-riddled effort in Southwest Virginia, where an additional 30,000 voters were affected. Some notices in that part of the state were sent to physical addresses instead of P.O. boxes, then re-sent to the boxes but with the wrong information, the Bluefield Daily Telegraph reported this week.

    And earlier this month, the department disclosed that an unspecified technical glitch had left about 107,000 voter applications in limbo for months.

    State elections officials promised that the mistakes will not prevent anyone from voting. Local registrars for Fairfax and Prince William counties will send corrected notices to all affected voters Monday, according to a news release from the department that noted the state will reimburse the localities for that expense.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/10/21/youngkin-virginia-midterms-election/

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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,413
    gift article....


    Pro-Trump Republicans court election volunteers to ‘challenge any vote’
    By Patrick Marley, Rosalind S. Helderman and Tom Hamburger
    October 25, 2022 at 6:00 ET
    RACINE, Wis. — The Republican National Committee and its allies say they have staged thousands of training sessions around the country on how to monitor voting and lodge complaints about next month’s midterm elections. In Pennsylvania, party officials have boasted about swelling the ranks of poll watchers to six times the total from 2020. In Michigan, a right-wing group announced it had launched “Operation Overwatch” to hunt down election-related malfeasance, issuing a press release that repeated the warning “We are watching” 10 times.
    Supporters of former president Donald Trump who falsely claim the 2020 election was stolen have summoned a swarm of poll watchers and workers in battleground states to spot potential fraud this year. It is a call to action that could subject voting results around the country to an unprecedented level of suspicion and unfounded doubt.
    “We’re going to be there and enforce those rules, and we’ll challenge any vote, any ballot, and you’re going to have to live with it, OK?” one-time Trump adviser Stephen K. Bannon said on a recent episode of his podcast. “We don’t care if you don’t like it. We don’t care if you’re going to run around and light your hair on fire. That’s the way this is going to roll.”

    continues..

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    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat said:
    gift article....


    Pro-Trump Republicans court election volunteers to ‘challenge any vote’
    By Patrick Marley, Rosalind S. Helderman and Tom Hamburger
    October 25, 2022 at 6:00 ET
    RACINE, Wis. — The Republican National Committee and its allies say they have staged thousands of training sessions around the country on how to monitor voting and lodge complaints about next month’s midterm elections. In Pennsylvania, party officials have boasted about swelling the ranks of poll watchers to six times the total from 2020. In Michigan, a right-wing group announced it had launched “Operation Overwatch” to hunt down election-related malfeasance, issuing a press release that repeated the warning “We are watching” 10 times.
    Supporters of former president Donald Trump who falsely claim the 2020 election was stolen have summoned a swarm of poll watchers and workers in battleground states to spot potential fraud this year. It is a call to action that could subject voting results around the country to an unprecedented level of suspicion and unfounded doubt.
    “We’re going to be there and enforce those rules, and we’ll challenge any vote, any ballot, and you’re going to have to live with it, OK?” one-time Trump adviser Stephen K. Bannon said on a recent episode of his podcast. “We don’t care if you don’t like it. We don’t care if you’re going to run around and light your hair on fire. That’s the way this is going to roll.”

    continues..

    Would love to see BLM’ers, the Black Panthers and Antiiiiiiiifa to do the same in predominantly white, repub districts. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, right?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,605
    https://apple.news/AOvD3KWmURwiLITQ-JzvxCg
    Screw that I’m def confronting anyone who might be at my polling place wearing masks and tactical gear! 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,413

     
    Judge considers stopping Phoenix ballot drop box watchers
    By ANITA SNOW
    Yesterday

    PHOENIX (AP) — A federal judge in Arizona said he hopes to decide by Friday whether to order members of a group to stop monitoring outdoor ballot drop boxes in the Phoenix area in an effort that has sparked allegations of voter intimidation.

    The groups Arizona Alliance for Retired Americans and Voto Latino asked U.S. District Judge Michael Liburdi during a Wednesday hearing to prevent members of Clean Elections USA from gathering within sight of drop boxes in Maricopa County, the state's most populous, and from following voters and taking photos and videos of them and their cars.

    The attorney for Clean Elections USA said that such a broad restraining order would be unconstitutional.

    Liburdi said he hoped to issue a decision by Friday but could continue to weigh the matter into the weekend.

    The League of Women Voters filed a similar suit Tuesday in federal court in Arizona, alleging that Clean Elections USA is intimidating voters.

    That suit also alleges that the groups Lions of Liberty and the Yavapai County Preparedness Team, which are associated with the far-right anti-government group Oath Keepers, have undertaken their own effort to watch ballot boxes and film voters in Arizona’s Yavapai County.

    Election deniers around the United States have embraced a film that has been discredited called “2000 Mules” that claims that people were paid to travel among drop boxes and stuff them with fraudulent ballots during the 2020 presidential vote.

    There’s no evidence for the notion that a network of Democrat-associated ballot “mules” has conspired to collect and deliver ballots to drop boxes, either two year ago or in the upcoming midterm elections.

    Amid the complaints from voters who say they have been harassed, Maricopa County Sheriff Paul Penzone said this week his office has begun providing security around drop boxes. Sheriff's deputies responded when two masked people carrying guns and wearing bulletproof vests showed up at a drop box in the Phoenix suburb of Mesa.

    The secretary of state this week said her office has received six cases of potential voter intimidation to the state attorney general and the U.S. Department of Justice, as well as a threatening email sent to the state elections director.

    The sheriff in metropolitan Phoenix has stepped up security around ballot drop boxes after a series of incidents involving people keeping watch on the boxes and taking video of voters after they were apparently inspired by lies about the 2020 election. (Oct. 25)

    The U.S. attorney's office in Arizona said it is also keeping an eye on cases alleging voter intimidation and vowed to prosecute those who violate federal law.

    Federal officials said local police officers would be the “front line in efforts to ensure that all qualified voters are able to exercise their right to vote free of intimidation or other election abuses.”

    “We will vigorously safeguard all Arizonans’ rights to freely and lawfully cast their ballot during the election,” the office said Wednesday. “As the several election threat-related cases pending federal felony charges from alleged criminal activity arising out of our State show, acts which cross the line will not go unaddressed.”

    Arizona Attorney General Mark Brnovich is calling on voters to report any intimidation immediately to police and file a complaint with his office.

    “Regardless of intent, this type of misguided behavior is contrary to both the laws and values of our state,” said Brnovich, a Republican.


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  • https://apple.news/AOvD3KWmURwiLITQ-JzvxCg
    Screw that I’m def confronting anyone who might be at my polling place wearing masks and tactical gear! 


    Ha! LOL. Nobody's afraid of potheads
  • https://apple.news/AOvD3KWmURwiLITQ-JzvxCg
    Screw that I’m def confronting anyone who might be at my polling place wearing masks and tactical gear! 


    Ha! LOL. Nobody's afraid of potheads
    Real tough guy, this one. Why’s he concealing his identity? Could have just worn a hood and cape but I suppose that would have interfered with all of his necessary/required tactical gear? Maybe he’s Taliban? Regardless, you know that all of those BLM’ers and Antiiiiiiiiiiifa ballot box stuffers are so mean. ‘Murica, baby!



    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Ha! Fail

    Who's the pic of? This the guy that beat up Paul P. last night? Or is this the pic of the guy that went after Brett K?