Harry Styles, PJ MSG

JH6056 said:

igotid88 said:

JH6056 said:

igotid88 said:

JH6056 said:

vedpunk said:

JH6056 said:

igotid88 said:

JH6056 said:

igotid88 said:

They should try. They might need to put themselves out there a little more for the casual fan. But you will get tourists coming to the shows. 

pjl44 said:

I think they should try. Test it out at the TD Garden first.

I took my 13yr old daughter to a Harry Styles MSG show, then saw PJ there 2 weeks later. As much as I love PJ and have loved them for 29 yrs, there is no way they'd sell out a 15 night residency at MSG. As @RiotZact said, Harry Styles played pretty much the exact same show every night for 15 nights (with few days off), with only changes in outfits & maybe just the tiniest bit of unpredictability in the banter. And this was only 1 of 3 US cities he did it in, and all following the release of a commercially-uber-successful album.  I love Gigaton but what's the highest the album or any 1 single went in the charts? How high did Styles album & singles so far get?  Be clear, I am not a Styles fan (though I admit he's a very good performer). I'd take PJ every time if given a choice between them & HS.  But demand & live music "style" dictates feasibility all the way.  

Also PJ is not a "play the same set every night" band, and playing 15 different sets and really giving it your all for 15 nights in same city would be brutal on the band & crew in a different way than HS & his band & crew. Also MSG seats 20,000 people, so Styles sold out 300,000 tix for ONE setlist, ONE show, 90 min each show at most & average cost of tix about $400 (and YES at least my show was completely sold out, no noticeable empty seats at all).

And as much s**t as PJ gets for the towns, states & COUNTRIES they do NOT play, the hate from fans for playing 15 shows in any one place would be immense.  And why would they do that anyway?  What would be in it for them when they could do 15 shows in different cities and give more fans a chance since NOT EVERYONE has the money & time off & ability to travel to NYC or any one city for a show.  Never mind for 15.

People know more Pearl Jam songs than Phish songs. And Phish did 13 shows with no repeats. Pearl Jam has fans that will go to multiple like Phish fans. You have the casual fan. The tourists. Harry has a few hits and he has the One Direction fans plus his cougar fan base.  Most people don't know that Pearl Jam changes setlists. Also some artists/bands block the back of the stage seats and those shows are considered sellouts.  Pearl Jam packed the whole arena

A couple of relevant questions:

1) What year did Phish do 13 nights? Was every night sold out?

2) What evidence is there Phish would sell out 13 nights at MSG in 2022?

3) We all know that whether an album or songs is great or not has little to do with the charts. But the Billboard charts are still absolutely an indicator of sales and demand, so for a question like this there is some relevance. Gigaton did debut at #1 on the Billboard Rock chart, and got to #2 on the Billboard overall album charts and was on that chart for 8 weeks.  You said "Harry has a few hits"... But not only has Harry's House his album debuted at #1 in US, Styles broke records buy having his album & his single "As It Was" both debut at #1 simutaneously in ALL of these countries: US, UK, Canada, Germany, Australia, Netherlands, Italy, Ireland, New Zealand, Switzerland, and Belgium. AND every single one of the 13 songs on that album charted, which is highly unusual.

Say all that to say, again, I've been a PJ fan for 29 yrs, think they're better than almost any other artist out there before and now, and would always choose PJ anything over Styles. But gotta ask, given that it's pretty obvious how/why Styles was able to sell out 15 nights at MSG and almost as many in LA and Chicago each I think, what do you base your certainty PJ could sell out 15 nights at MSG on other than more people knowing PJ songs than Phish songs? 

Btw everything I just said about charts I just looked up. I don't follow them. Wild to see that Ozzy Ozborne has #1 album right now, and Kate Bush is still in top 10 singles with Runnin' Up That Hill thanks to Stranger Things!

Do you have a crush on Harry Styles?  Lol Good god man. It’s almost like your part of some elaborate marketing strategy to promote him.  PJ could sell out 15 shows at MSG if they only played that city and maybe a couple more across the US. It would require heavy promotion and advertising but it could be done. But as we all know the band doesn’t choose to plays shows and cities based on demand. 

Someone else posed the question, and it made me look up their stats. No crush & wouldn't have seen him but for my 13 yr old daughter, but do you really not find every thing I posted relevant to the larger question? If someone asks if it could be done, the level of Styles' current popularity & sales is entirely relevant.  And he's literally breaking records.  This is just a conversation, but you're another person saying PJ could do it but not saying what you're basing it on. What do you base that on, just gut or what?  Now that someone else has raised this, I'm sincerely curious.  

30+ years of hits. An album debut in the top 5 every decade. I think 15 nights at MSG is doable. Now if it was Wembley Stadium that's a different thing altogether. Surprised they haven't played there yet. Stadium not arena.

I don't see it, but I get that many of you do. Most importantly though, I'm glad that all signs point to this not being something PJ would ever even want to do. The fans that have the money & time to travel and see tons of shows in a leg are lucky & also spoiled. Part of the reason I have been loyal to PJ for the 29 yrs I've followed them is because they try to be accessible to as many fans as possible. So 15 arena shows in 15 cities sounds good & right to me. Makes a huge difference to who CAN go, even if lots of people would like to go to 15 shows in one place.

It doesn't have to sell out in 2 minutes. I'm sure there'll be some tickets available day of. But they sold out MSG this tour before people asked for refunds during the pandemic. And still sold those again plus very high premium seats. And that's the whole arena even up to the 400s. 
Rage did 5 nights same setlist. They blocked out the back. 

Selling out 1 or 2 nights is one thing. Selling out 15 in one place is entirely different.  And no one said it had to sell out in 2 min, the question is would it sell out at all. 15 nights is 300,000 tix in 1 city. And Rage even with not selling behind the stage didn't sell out, although I don't know if that was about demand or the insanely expensive prices the 1st time tix went onsale.

I believe it would. Obviously Harry has the momentum with a #1 single and him in the news everyday but that's not always a guarantee.. so it was surprising that there was a high demand. Even I tried. Mostly to see Sarah.  But the tickets were too much. 
Pearl Jam has fans that travel. Even when they don't have tickets. If they do 15 shows in a 2 month period. You have the die hards that might do 2-4+ shows. The casual fan. The tourists. Someone's plus one. Then you might have someone who goes for their first show and loves it and wants to go again. And then when they find out they'll do different songs might go to another. If could do 2 Fenway or Wrigley shoes at 60k or at the time SafeCo with 80k for 2 nights. And there were still people who got shutout. I think they can do it. Otherwise we are a doomed society. 

Renfield said:

igotid88 said:

People know more Pearl Jam songs than Phish songs. And Phish did 13 shows with no repeats. Pearl Jam has fans that will go to multiple like Phish fans. You have the casual fan. The tourists. Harry has a few hits and he has the One Direction fans plus his cougar fan base.  Most people don't know that Pearl Jam changes setlists. Also some artists/bands block the back of the stage seats and those shows are considered sellouts.  Pearl Jam packed the whole arena

errrr… I’m a Harry Styles cougar fan?? Learn something new everyday 😍 I only know 1 song, but I had to see him! The show I saw at MSG on 9. 7 was sold-out, packed to the rafters. There’s no curtain, his stage is a large rectangle on center floor. 

The sound of 20,000 teenagers screeching made my ears bleed once Harry came out. I much prefer the roar of the crowd at a PJ concert, like on 9.11. I live 10 blocks away from MSG-would I go to 15 PJ shows? 🤔 

You’re my favouritest most favourite cougar if that helps

The Phish MSG Bakers Dozen run was summer 2017.  Dates had a rhythm of Fri-Sat-Sun-Tues-Wed.

kosteva2 said:

The Phish MSG Bakers Dozen run was summer 2017.  Dates had a rhythm of Fri-Sat-Sun-Tues-Wed.

There may have been a few shows early in the run, like the first Tues, Wed that didn’t sell out (although wouldn’t have missed by much).  I was able to get a ticket to the 2nd Friday show a couple days before.  That run definitely gained momentum as fans figured out what they were doing with the no repeats and different donut themed nights (ie red velvet donut night through in some Velvet Underground covers; jam filled night had a few songs that they normally don’t stretch out go from 5 minutes to 25 minutes; Boston Cream night had a mashup of greatest hits by bands Boston and Cream at one point).  By the end of the run tickets were very pricey on the secondary market.  It ended up being one of the defining runs in Phish’s now ~40 year run of playing.  

I think Phish can still sell out a 13 (plus) night run at MSG.  They do annual 4 night runs there around New Years (this year moved to April because of COVID) that sell out right away and have a huge fan base in Northeast, within train distance.  Their style much different than other bands like Pearl Jam where it’s not just the unique sets but each song has the potential to be played differently the way they improv/jam off of them.  One night a song might be 10 minutes.  A couple shows later could be 20 where it goes in a whole different musical direction for stretches.  That’s what keeps people coming back to multiple shows per tour/run.  Pearl Jam will mix up the sets ~80-85% night to night but save for few exceptions in songs like Evenflow, Porch, RVM, Daughter tag, there’s not a lot of variation from one version to the next.  Phish might do ~15 songs per show but easily stretch that out to a 2:45-2:55 long show.
I don’t think Pearl Jam would be able to sell out double-digit MSG run (unless tickets came with unique merch poster/shirt/hat/sticker bundle for each night but that’s a different debate…).  I would say probably closer to 7 nights realistically.  Would end up with too many repeats or some duds that a lot of people just don’t want to hear.  

Just looked at my Pearl Jam stats with 192 unique songs filling most albums and popular B-sides and covers over 35 shows since 1998. Some back of the napkin math let’s round that up to 200 songs.  25 songs per show based on most recent tour.  Gives you 8 shows with no repeats.  

Thanks, that's fascinating info. I absolutely love the donut-to-bands theme, that's so damn funny & cool!  I could never really get into Phish (saw them twice) but I get that when you are into them and not only is every show different but most songs are different every time, that is a very cool dynamic. And that "mystery theme" element, not knowing where the donut will take you each show, I CAN understand how that gets both passionate fans and also casual curious fans coming back night after night for a multi-night stand.

I still don't see PJ ever doing a 5+ run anywhere (not saying they wouldn't sell it out, just saying it's hard to see it being something they want to do), but now that you've described the Phish thing and also watching the Taylor Hawkins London benefit show again and the magic & fun that comes from throwing so many amazing musicians together, some legendary, some less known but awesome... I CAN see PJ doing a THEATER multi-night run, like 5 nights at Radio City Music Hall (6,000 capacity) or maybe even the Beacon Theater (3,000 capacity), and doing that combo of "no repeats" PJ songs (which means casual fans would have to be on notice they might not get Alive or Betterman or Evenflow depending on night),but also surprise special guests and maybe a theme for each night that affects the music. It could go in so many directions... It is fun just thinking about something like that with PJ.

But a 10 or 15 night run of straight powerful PJ shows at MSG... I still don't see the band ever having any interest in it, don't see it selling sufficiently, and I see fans everywhere else in the US and world who can't get to MSG being really bummed that instead of 15 NYC shows there weren't 2 in NYC and then 1 in 13 other cities (but yes, I know, a LOT of PJ fans CAN get to MSG. I'm talking about the millions that cannot get to MSG or NYC).

Selling out MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out.  

bootlegger10 said:

Selling out MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out.  

Bands who are selling out arenas all over on their current tours, no one should be surprised they sell out MSG. Most arenas are about the same size, 20,000 people.  So when you say "MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out", what do you mean? Sure everyone wants to play it, it's literally the most famous arena in the world. But you also usually only get booked there when promoters & bookers believe you have that much demand that it will sell well if not sell out.

To me your comment only makes sense if bands who otherwise are NOT selling out arenas on the rest of their tour, regularly sell out MSG. Do you have examples of that, or what are you basing "easiest arena to sell out" on? 

Spiritual_Chaos said:

JH6056 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Selling out MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out.  

Bands who are selling out arenas all over on their current tours, no one should be surprised they sell out MSG. Most arenas are about the same size, 20,000 people.  So when you say "MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out", what do you mean? Sure everyone wants to play it, it's literally the most famous arena in the world. But you also usually only get booked there when promoters & bookers believe you have that much demand that it will sell well if not sell out.

To me your comment only makes sense if bands who otherwise are NOT selling out arenas on the rest of their tour, regularly sell out MSG. Do you have examples of that, or what are you basing "easiest arena to sell out" on? 

I believe he means that the New York area has a lot of people.

I don't think KISS sold out MSG now on the End of the Road tour. Ace joked about it.

It's true, it does have a lot of people, but I'm a New Yorker and the other side of that coin is that New Yorkers are also spoiled as hell. Many bands make multiple runs through NYC on the same tour, and we also have ridiculous amount of choices for who we see in that NYC is one city just about EVERY band wants to play. Nothing about that makes MSG particularly "easy" to sell out, and since in the greater NYC area we also have whatever the Meadowlands is called now in NJ and Barclay's Center in Brooklyn, there are also 3 immediate area arenas for bands to play.

MSG is only easy to sell out if you're a band in high demand, and if you are, you're likely selling out most other arenas on your tour as well. So still curious what makes MSG "the easiest in the world to sell out" as compared to any others.

on2legs said:

JH6056 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

JH6056 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Selling out MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out.  

Bands who are selling out arenas all over on their current tours, no one should be surprised they sell out MSG. Most arenas are about the same size, 20,000 people.  So when you say "MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out", what do you mean? Sure everyone wants to play it, it's literally the most famous arena in the world. But you also usually only get booked there when promoters & bookers believe you have that much demand that it will sell well if not sell out.

To me your comment only makes sense if bands who otherwise are NOT selling out arenas on the rest of their tour, regularly sell out MSG. Do you have examples of that, or what are you basing "easiest arena to sell out" on? 

I believe he means that the New York area has a lot of people.

I don't think KISS sold out MSG now on the End of the Road tour. Ace joked about it.

It's true, it does have a lot of people, but I'm a New Yorker and the other side of that coin is that New Yorkers are also spoiled as hell. Many bands make multiple runs through NYC on the same tour, and we also have ridiculous amount of choices for who we see in that NYC is one city just about EVERY band wants to play. Nothing about that makes MSG particularly "easy" to sell out, and since in the greater NYC area we also have whatever the Meadowlands is called now in NJ and Barclay's Center in Brooklyn, there are also 3 immediate area arenas for bands to play.

MSG is only easy to sell out if you're a band in high demand, and if you are, you're likely selling out most other arenas on your tour as well. So still curious what makes MSG "the easiest in the world to sell out" as compared to any others.

The Izod Center closed in 2015.

True dat. I actually forgot, I probably haven't seen a show there since the early '00s.  Barclay's is still open though, and New Yorkers remain spoiled in having so many opportunities to see bands that other parts of the country sometimes never see. Which also means... New Yorkers don't flock to everything, not by a long shot. Because there are SO MANY CHOICES of what to see all the time.  

I think they would have zero problem selling out 15 shows.  Between tourists, fans seeking multiple shows and fans just trying to get in the door for one show it wouldn’t be hard to do. 

JPPJ84 said:

Renfield said:

errrr… I’m a Harry Styles cougar fan?? Learn something new everyday 😍 I only know 1 song, but I had to see him! The show I saw at MSG on 9. 7 was sold-out, packed to the rafters. There’s no curtain, his stage is a large rectangle on center floor. 

The sound of 20,000 teenagers screeching made my ears bleed once Harry came out. I much prefer the roar of the crowd at a PJ concert, like on 9.11. I live 10 blocks away from MSG-would I go to 15 PJ shows? 🤔 

You’re my favouritest most favourite cougar if that helps