Selling out MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out.
Bands who are selling out arenas all over on their current tours, no one should be surprised they sell out MSG. Most arenas are about the same size, 20,000 people. So when you say "MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out", what do you mean? Sure everyone wants to play it, it's literally the most famous arena in the world. But you also usually only get booked there when promoters & bookers believe you have that much demand that it will sell well if not sell out.
To me your comment only makes sense if bands who otherwise are NOT selling out arenas on the rest of their tour, regularly sell out MSG. Do you have examples of that, or what are you basing "easiest arena to sell out" on?
Selling out MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out.
Bands who are selling out arenas all over on their current tours, no one should be surprised they sell out MSG. Most arenas are about the same size, 20,000 people. So when you say "MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out", what do you mean? Sure everyone wants to play it, it's literally the most famous arena in the world. But you also usually only get booked there when promoters & bookers believe you have that much demand that it will sell well if not sell out.
To me your comment only makes sense if bands who otherwise are NOT selling out arenas on the rest of their tour, regularly sell out MSG. Do you have examples of that, or what are you basing "easiest arena to sell out" on?
I believe he means that the New York area has a lot of people.
I don't think KISS sold out MSG now on the End of the Road tour. Ace joked about it.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Selling out MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out.
Bands who are selling out arenas all over on their current tours, no one should be surprised they sell out MSG. Most arenas are about the same size, 20,000 people. So when you say "MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out", what do you mean? Sure everyone wants to play it, it's literally the most famous arena in the world. But you also usually only get booked there when promoters & bookers believe you have that much demand that it will sell well if not sell out.
To me your comment only makes sense if bands who otherwise are NOT selling out arenas on the rest of their tour, regularly sell out MSG. Do you have examples of that, or what are you basing "easiest arena to sell out" on?
I believe he means that the New York area has a lot of people.
I don't think KISS sold out MSG now on the End of the Road tour. Ace joked about it.
It's true, it does have a lot of people, but I'm a New Yorker and the other side of that coin is that New Yorkers are also spoiled as hell. Many bands make multiple runs through NYC on the same tour, and we also have ridiculous amount of choices for who we see in that NYC is one city just about EVERY band wants to play. Nothing about that makes MSG particularly "easy" to sell out, and since in the greater NYC area we also have whatever the Meadowlands is called now in NJ and Barclay's Center in Brooklyn, there are also 3 immediate area arenas for bands to play.
MSG is only easy to sell out if you're a band in high demand, and if you are, you're likely selling out most other arenas on your tour as well. So still curious what makes MSG "the easiest in the world to sell out" as compared to any others.
0
on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,933
Selling out MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out.
Bands who are selling out arenas all over on their current tours, no one should be surprised they sell out MSG. Most arenas are about the same size, 20,000 people. So when you say "MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out", what do you mean? Sure everyone wants to play it, it's literally the most famous arena in the world. But you also usually only get booked there when promoters & bookers believe you have that much demand that it will sell well if not sell out.
To me your comment only makes sense if bands who otherwise are NOT selling out arenas on the rest of their tour, regularly sell out MSG. Do you have examples of that, or what are you basing "easiest arena to sell out" on?
I believe he means that the New York area has a lot of people.
I don't think KISS sold out MSG now on the End of the Road tour. Ace joked about it.
It's true, it does have a lot of people, but I'm a New Yorker and the other side of that coin is that New Yorkers are also spoiled as hell. Many bands make multiple runs through NYC on the same tour, and we also have ridiculous amount of choices for who we see in that NYC is one city just about EVERY band wants to play. Nothing about that makes MSG particularly "easy" to sell out, and since in the greater NYC area we also have whatever the Meadowlands is called now in NJ and Barclay's Center in Brooklyn, there are also 3 immediate area arenas for bands to play.
MSG is only easy to sell out if you're a band in high demand, and if you are, you're likely selling out most other arenas on your tour as well. So still curious what makes MSG "the easiest in the world to sell out" as compared to any others.
The Izod Center closed in 2015.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
Selling out MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out.
Bands who are selling out arenas all over on their current tours, no one should be surprised they sell out MSG. Most arenas are about the same size, 20,000 people. So when you say "MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out", what do you mean? Sure everyone wants to play it, it's literally the most famous arena in the world. But you also usually only get booked there when promoters & bookers believe you have that much demand that it will sell well if not sell out.
To me your comment only makes sense if bands who otherwise are NOT selling out arenas on the rest of their tour, regularly sell out MSG. Do you have examples of that, or what are you basing "easiest arena to sell out" on?
I believe he means that the New York area has a lot of people.
I don't think KISS sold out MSG now on the End of the Road tour. Ace joked about it.
It's true, it does have a lot of people, but I'm a New Yorker and the other side of that coin is that New Yorkers are also spoiled as hell. Many bands make multiple runs through NYC on the same tour, and we also have ridiculous amount of choices for who we see in that NYC is one city just about EVERY band wants to play. Nothing about that makes MSG particularly "easy" to sell out, and since in the greater NYC area we also have whatever the Meadowlands is called now in NJ and Barclay's Center in Brooklyn, there are also 3 immediate area arenas for bands to play.
MSG is only easy to sell out if you're a band in high demand, and if you are, you're likely selling out most other arenas on your tour as well. So still curious what makes MSG "the easiest in the world to sell out" as compared to any others.
The Izod Center closed in 2015.
True dat. I actually forgot, I probably haven't seen a show there since the early '00s. Barclay's is still open though, and New Yorkers remain spoiled in having so many opportunities to see bands that other parts of the country sometimes never see. Which also means... New Yorkers don't flock to everything, not by a long shot. Because there are SO MANY CHOICES of what to see all the time.
Aside from the population and it being a destination venue, It is the easiest arena to "sell out" because the lowest percentage of tickets are available to the public. It has the highest number of "holds" due to the large media market. With TM/LN's pricing methods what does it even mean to "sell out" these days?
0
on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,933
I think they would have zero problem selling out 15 shows. Between tourists, fans seeking multiple shows and fans just trying to get in the door for one show it wouldn’t be hard to do.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
Aside from the population and it being a destination venue, It is the easiest arena to "sell out" because the lowest percentage of tickets are available to the public. It has the highest number of "holds" due to the large media market. With TM/LN's pricing methods what does it even mean to "sell out" these days?
Now that makes sense about the highest # of holds, so seats that never make it to the market. And I believe you but I don't know what you mean when you say "with TM/LN's pricing methods, what does it even mean to "sell out" these days?", I know TM & LN basically were "buying" the best tix themselves as soon as they went onsale and then listing them right away as "resale tix" at a much higher price, is that what you mean? And now I've heard of "dynamic pricing" but that is basically the new scam/workaround that makes it so TM doesn't have to "buy" the tix at first, they can just sell them for however much the market supports and I don't think the artist gets much at all of the increased price, just whatever the contract originally was. I think it's as if the tix sold for the original price for the artist. But dynamic pricing wouldn't affect the # of tix sold, beyond pricing out those who don't have trust funds.
Is any of that what you were talking about when you said "What does it even mean to sell out these days?", or what do you mean?
errrr… I’m a Harry Styles cougar fan?? Learn something new everyday 😍 I only know 1 song, but I had to see him! The show I saw at MSG on 9. 7 was sold-out, packed to the rafters. There’s no curtain, his stage is a large rectangle on center floor.
The sound of 20,000 teenagers screeching made my ears bleed once Harry came out. I much prefer the roar of the crowd at a PJ concert, like on 9.11. I live 10 blocks away from MSG-would I go to 15 PJ shows? 🤔
You’re my favouritest most favourite cougar if that helps
Aside from the population and it being a destination venue, It is the easiest arena to "sell out" because the lowest percentage of tickets are available to the public. It has the highest number of "holds" due to the large media market. With TM/LN's pricing methods what does it even mean to "sell out" these days?
Now that makes sense about the highest # of holds, so seats that never make it to the market. And I believe you but I don't know what you mean when you say "with TM/LN's pricing methods, what does it even mean to "sell out" these days?", I know TM & LN basically were "buying" the best tix themselves as soon as they went onsale and then listing them right away as "resale tix" at a much higher price, is that what you mean? And now I've heard of "dynamic pricing" but that is basically the new scam/workaround that makes it so TM doesn't have to "buy" the tix at first, they can just sell them for however much the market supports and I don't think the artist gets much at all of the increased price, just whatever the contract originally was. I think it's as if the tix sold for the original price for the artist. But dynamic pricing wouldn't affect the # of tix sold, beyond pricing out those who don't have trust funds.
Is any of that what you were talking about when you said "What does it even mean to sell out these days?", or what do you mean?
Something like that. TM/LN do not buy the tix that are held back. They simply do not release tickets to the public at the fixed onsale price. That is why is says "tickets are not available" rather than "sold out." It is a coordinated effort by TM/LN to capitalize on presale and onsale demand. They strategically release seats for each onsale and then use an algorithm to price premium seats. And this revenue is shared with the band. It is designed to capture the revenue that is earned by stubhub and other resellers. I believe that is the main reason PJ would agree to premium pricing, it puts that money in their pockets instead of the resellers. Not sure they have much of a choice given that the fan club gets many of the best, and most valuable, seats in the house. It is a quid pro quo.
Aside from the population and it being a destination venue, It is the easiest arena to "sell out" because the lowest percentage of tickets are available to the public. It has the highest number of "holds" due to the large media market. With TM/LN's pricing methods what does it even mean to "sell out" these days?
Now that makes sense about the highest # of holds, so seats that never make it to the market. And I believe you but I don't know what you mean when you say "with TM/LN's pricing methods, what does it even mean to "sell out" these days?", I know TM & LN basically were "buying" the best tix themselves as soon as they went onsale and then listing them right away as "resale tix" at a much higher price, is that what you mean? And now I've heard of "dynamic pricing" but that is basically the new scam/workaround that makes it so TM doesn't have to "buy" the tix at first, they can just sell them for however much the market supports and I don't think the artist gets much at all of the increased price, just whatever the contract originally was. I think it's as if the tix sold for the original price for the artist. But dynamic pricing wouldn't affect the # of tix sold, beyond pricing out those who don't have trust funds.
Is any of that what you were talking about when you said "What does it even mean to sell out these days?", or what do you mean?
Something like that. TM/LN do not buy the tix that are held back. They simply do not release tickets to the public at the fixed onsale price. That is why is says "tickets are not available" rather than "sold out." It is a coordinated effort by TM/LN to capitalize on presale and onsale demand. They strategically release seats for each onsale and then use an algorithm to price premium seats. And this revenue is shared with the band. It is designed to capture the revenue that is earned by stubhub and other resellers. I believe that is the main reason PJ would agree to premium pricing, it puts that money in their pockets instead of the resellers. Not sure they have much of a choice given that the fan club gets many of the best, and most valuable, seats in the house. It is a quid pro quo.
Thanks for explaining that. I have noticed that usually these days it's "Tickets Not Available" but then some shows say "This show is sold out", now I understand why.
I have learned, from an artist directly, that artists DO have some say in at least pricing for their fanclub tix. I won't name the artist but it's someone who sold out MSG this year, and I had the chance to specifically bring up dynamic pricing and thank them for fact that their fanclub seats earlier this year when they were playing amphitheaters/sheds were about $160, whereas worse seats behind fanclub (but still good seats) the base price was $399. The fanclub seats had NO dynamic pricing, although they also didn't go onsale through TM or LN initially even though the public onsale was through TM. Same was true for the MSG tix, where fanclub great tix were more like $199.00, but again NO dynamic pricing for the fanclub, and I can't remember but I think those were not onsale through TM for the fanclub presale either.
So some artists are holding the line as best they can, and I'm super grateful to them.
Aside from the population and it being a destination venue, It is the easiest arena to "sell out" because the lowest percentage of tickets are available to the public. It has the highest number of "holds" due to the large media market. With TM/LN's pricing methods what does it even mean to "sell out" these days?
Now that makes sense about the highest # of holds, so seats that never make it to the market. And I believe you but I don't know what you mean when you say "with TM/LN's pricing methods, what does it even mean to "sell out" these days?", I know TM & LN basically were "buying" the best tix themselves as soon as they went onsale and then listing them right away as "resale tix" at a much higher price, is that what you mean? And now I've heard of "dynamic pricing" but that is basically the new scam/workaround that makes it so TM doesn't have to "buy" the tix at first, they can just sell them for however much the market supports and I don't think the artist gets much at all of the increased price, just whatever the contract originally was. I think it's as if the tix sold for the original price for the artist. But dynamic pricing wouldn't affect the # of tix sold, beyond pricing out those who don't have trust funds.
Is any of that what you were talking about when you said "What does it even mean to sell out these days?", or what do you mean?
Something like that. TM/LN do not buy the tix that are held back. They simply do not release tickets to the public at the fixed onsale price. That is why is says "tickets are not available" rather than "sold out." It is a coordinated effort by TM/LN to capitalize on presale and onsale demand. They strategically release seats for each onsale and then use an algorithm to price premium seats. And this revenue is shared with the band. It is designed to capture the revenue that is earned by stubhub and other resellers. I believe that is the main reason PJ would agree to premium pricing, it puts that money in their pockets instead of the resellers. Not sure they have much of a choice given that the fan club gets many of the best, and most valuable, seats in the house. It is a quid pro quo.
Thanks for explaining that. I have noticed that usually these days it's "Tickets Not Available" but then some shows say "This show is sold out", now I understand why.
I have learned, from an artist directly, that artists DO have some say in at least pricing for their fanclub tix. I won't name the artist but it's someone who sold out MSG this year, and I had the chance to specifically bring up dynamic pricing and thank them for fact that their fanclub seats earlier this year when they were playing amphitheaters/sheds were about $160, whereas worse seats behind fanclub (but still good seats) the base price was $399. The fanclub seats had NO dynamic pricing, although they also didn't go onsale through TM or LN initially even though the public onsale was through TM. Same was true for the MSG tix, where fanclub great tix were more like $199.00, but again NO dynamic pricing for the fanclub, and I can't remember but I think those were not onsale through TM for the fanclub presale either.
So some artists are holding the line as best they can, and I'm super grateful to them.
The artists do have the ability to control pricing, no question about it. I have said this before but it is the resale market that is driving prices up. Scalpers have always existed but in this digital world there is visibility to the numbers. They are too big to ignore. If I was an artist I would not be very happy about a company, that is not my partner, making millions of dollars off my concerts. It is a tough situation for an artist.
Aside from the population and it being a destination venue, It is the easiest arena to "sell out" because the lowest percentage of tickets are available to the public. It has the highest number of "holds" due to the large media market. With TM/LN's pricing methods what does it even mean to "sell out" these days?
Now that makes sense about the highest # of holds, so seats that never make it to the market. And I believe you but I don't know what you mean when you say "with TM/LN's pricing methods, what does it even mean to "sell out" these days?", I know TM & LN basically were "buying" the best tix themselves as soon as they went onsale and then listing them right away as "resale tix" at a much higher price, is that what you mean? And now I've heard of "dynamic pricing" but that is basically the new scam/workaround that makes it so TM doesn't have to "buy" the tix at first, they can just sell them for however much the market supports and I don't think the artist gets much at all of the increased price, just whatever the contract originally was. I think it's as if the tix sold for the original price for the artist. But dynamic pricing wouldn't affect the # of tix sold, beyond pricing out those who don't have trust funds.
Is any of that what you were talking about when you said "What does it even mean to sell out these days?", or what do you mean?
Something like that. TM/LN do not buy the tix that are held back. They simply do not release tickets to the public at the fixed onsale price. That is why is says "tickets are not available" rather than "sold out." It is a coordinated effort by TM/LN to capitalize on presale and onsale demand. They strategically release seats for each onsale and then use an algorithm to price premium seats. And this revenue is shared with the band. It is designed to capture the revenue that is earned by stubhub and other resellers. I believe that is the main reason PJ would agree to premium pricing, it puts that money in their pockets instead of the resellers. Not sure they have much of a choice given that the fan club gets many of the best, and most valuable, seats in the house. It is a quid pro quo.
Thanks for explaining that. I have noticed that usually these days it's "Tickets Not Available" but then some shows say "This show is sold out", now I understand why.
I have learned, from an artist directly, that artists DO have some say in at least pricing for their fanclub tix. I won't name the artist but it's someone who sold out MSG this year, and I had the chance to specifically bring up dynamic pricing and thank them for fact that their fanclub seats earlier this year when they were playing amphitheaters/sheds were about $160, whereas worse seats behind fanclub (but still good seats) the base price was $399. The fanclub seats had NO dynamic pricing, although they also didn't go onsale through TM or LN initially even though the public onsale was through TM. Same was true for the MSG tix, where fanclub great tix were more like $199.00, but again NO dynamic pricing for the fanclub, and I can't remember but I think those were not onsale through TM for the fanclub presale either.
So some artists are holding the line as best they can, and I'm super grateful to them.
The artists do have the ability to control pricing, no question about it. I have said this before but it is the resale market that is driving prices up. Scalpers have always existed but in this digital world there is visibility to the numbers. They are too big to ignore. If I was an artist I would not be very happy about a company, that is not my partner, making millions of dollars off my concerts. It is a tough situation for an artist.
Good point, this artist doesn't allow resales and I guess in NYC maybe they're just sucking it up re: the resale market since if I understand correctly, they can't forbid resales? Also in some markets they send paper tickets in the mail! So those can be resold but it requires a physical transaction (even if by mail). Much harder to exploit on StubHub.
Also, and this part I really don't know about, I only know what I read on the same artist's fanclub chat about ticket onsales where a representative of the artist actually answers questions in real time for the fanclub onsales, and it sounds like they also use technology or a contractor to try to identify where any one account is trying to buy a lot of tickets. I don't know how they do it, I just know they talk about how sometimes more tickets will come up again after it looks like tix are gone, because they are tracking down scalpers and when they i.d. them, they put those tix back in the pool. But I don't now how that works, and even though this is a high demand artist, I'm sure there is more demand for PJ tix so that part might be impossible or much harder with PJ.
Aside from the population and it being a destination venue, It is the easiest arena to "sell out" because the lowest percentage of tickets are available to the public. It has the highest number of "holds" due to the large media market. With TM/LN's pricing methods what does it even mean to "sell out" these days?
Now that makes sense about the highest # of holds, so seats that never make it to the market. And I believe you but I don't know what you mean when you say "with TM/LN's pricing methods, what does it even mean to "sell out" these days?", I know TM & LN basically were "buying" the best tix themselves as soon as they went onsale and then listing them right away as "resale tix" at a much higher price, is that what you mean? And now I've heard of "dynamic pricing" but that is basically the new scam/workaround that makes it so TM doesn't have to "buy" the tix at first, they can just sell them for however much the market supports and I don't think the artist gets much at all of the increased price, just whatever the contract originally was. I think it's as if the tix sold for the original price for the artist. But dynamic pricing wouldn't affect the # of tix sold, beyond pricing out those who don't have trust funds.
Is any of that what you were talking about when you said "What does it even mean to sell out these days?", or what do you mean?
Something like that. TM/LN do not buy the tix that are held back. They simply do not release tickets to the public at the fixed onsale price. That is why is says "tickets are not available" rather than "sold out." It is a coordinated effort by TM/LN to capitalize on presale and onsale demand. They strategically release seats for each onsale and then use an algorithm to price premium seats. And this revenue is shared with the band. It is designed to capture the revenue that is earned by stubhub and other resellers. I believe that is the main reason PJ would agree to premium pricing, it puts that money in their pockets instead of the resellers. Not sure they have much of a choice given that the fan club gets many of the best, and most valuable, seats in the house. It is a quid pro quo.
Thanks for explaining that. I have noticed that usually these days it's "Tickets Not Available" but then some shows say "This show is sold out", now I understand why.
I have learned, from an artist directly, that artists DO have some say in at least pricing for their fanclub tix. I won't name the artist but it's someone who sold out MSG this year, and I had the chance to specifically bring up dynamic pricing and thank them for fact that their fanclub seats earlier this year when they were playing amphitheaters/sheds were about $160, whereas worse seats behind fanclub (but still good seats) the base price was $399. The fanclub seats had NO dynamic pricing, although they also didn't go onsale through TM or LN initially even though the public onsale was through TM. Same was true for the MSG tix, where fanclub great tix were more like $199.00, but again NO dynamic pricing for the fanclub, and I can't remember but I think those were not onsale through TM for the fanclub presale either.
So some artists are holding the line as best they can, and I'm super grateful to them.
The artists do have the ability to control pricing, no question about it. I have said this before but it is the resale market that is driving prices up. Scalpers have always existed but in this digital world there is visibility to the numbers. They are too big to ignore. If I was an artist I would not be very happy about a company, that is not my partner, making millions of dollars off my concerts. It is a tough situation for an artist.
Good point, this artist doesn't allow resales and I guess in NYC maybe they're just sucking it up re: the resale market since if I understand correctly, they can't forbid resales? Also in some markets they send paper tickets in the mail! So those can be resold but it requires a physical transaction (even if by mail). Much harder to exploit on StubHub.
Also, and this part I really don't know about, I only know what I read on the same artist's fanclub chat about ticket onsales where a representative of the artist actually answers questions in real time for the fanclub onsales, and it sounds like they also use technology or a contractor to try to identify where any one account is trying to buy a lot of tickets. I don't know how they do it, I just know they talk about how sometimes more tickets will come up again after it looks like tix are gone, because they are tracking down scalpers and when they i.d. them, they put those tix back in the pool. But I don't now how that works, and even though this is a high demand artist, I'm sure there is more demand for PJ tix so that part might be impossible or much harder with PJ.
Not 100% sure but I believe resales HAVE to allowed in New York by law. I believe that most fan clubs are outsourced. I think that is what happened with Pearl Jam when they launched this site and they split the memberships into digital and analog. We also saw the merch offerings expand around that time. I do not know it for a fact, but it makes sense. These companies are in the business of running and monetizing fan clubs. I would not be surprised if technology is used to screen buyers or monitor onsales, it also makes sense. I do not have any actual knowledge or details, but it seems probable.
Selling out MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out.
Bands who are selling out arenas all over on their current tours, no one should be surprised they sell out MSG. Most arenas are about the same size, 20,000 people. So when you say "MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out", what do you mean? Sure everyone wants to play it, it's literally the most famous arena in the world. But you also usually only get booked there when promoters & bookers believe you have that much demand that it will sell well if not sell out.
To me your comment only makes sense if bands who otherwise are NOT selling out arenas on the rest of their tour, regularly sell out MSG. Do you have examples of that, or what are you basing "easiest arena to sell out" on?
I believe he means that the New York area has a lot of people.
I don't think KISS sold out MSG now on the End of the Road tour. Ace joked about it.
It's true, it does have a lot of people, but I'm a New Yorker and the other side of that coin is that New Yorkers are also spoiled as hell. Many bands make multiple runs through NYC on the same tour, and we also have ridiculous amount of choices for who we see in that NYC is one city just about EVERY band wants to play. Nothing about that makes MSG particularly "easy" to sell out, and since in the greater NYC area we also have whatever the Meadowlands is called now in NJ and Barclay's Center in Brooklyn, there are also 3 immediate area arenas for bands to play.
MSG is only easy to sell out if you're a band in high demand, and if you are, you're likely selling out most other arenas on your tour as well. So still curious what makes MSG "the easiest in the world to sell out" as compared to any others.
MSG PJ is by far the toughest ticket I have ever experienced here in NY, and the band has never come close to matching demand here with shows. The last multi night NYC stop at MSG was 2016, and odds to get TC tix were in the single digits.
To this day I can’t recall ever seeing a “blue dot” on the TM for sale page for a PJ show, nor heard a TM phone operator say “sure we have plenty of PJ tix to choose from, would you like a pair in 107.” Neither has ever happened.
So before saying it’s not possible, why don’t we wait for the day you can buy an MSG ticket at face without beating the five percent odds on TC? That day will probably never come
Would love to see them try, but better yet, how about a full US tour can be done in about 25 shows, when they are ready, and it’s been 11 years since the NE saw a full run of shows outside of a small handful in 2016.
Selling out MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out.
Bands who are selling out arenas all over on their current tours, no one should be surprised they sell out MSG. Most arenas are about the same size, 20,000 people. So when you say "MSG has to be the easiest arena in the world to sell out", what do you mean? Sure everyone wants to play it, it's literally the most famous arena in the world. But you also usually only get booked there when promoters & bookers believe you have that much demand that it will sell well if not sell out.
To me your comment only makes sense if bands who otherwise are NOT selling out arenas on the rest of their tour, regularly sell out MSG. Do you have examples of that, or what are you basing "easiest arena to sell out" on?
I believe he means that the New York area has a lot of people.
I don't think KISS sold out MSG now on the End of the Road tour. Ace joked about it.
It's true, it does have a lot of people, but I'm a New Yorker and the other side of that coin is that New Yorkers are also spoiled as hell. Many bands make multiple runs through NYC on the same tour, and we also have ridiculous amount of choices for who we see in that NYC is one city just about EVERY band wants to play. Nothing about that makes MSG particularly "easy" to sell out, and since in the greater NYC area we also have whatever the Meadowlands is called now in NJ and Barclay's Center in Brooklyn, there are also 3 immediate area arenas for bands to play.
MSG is only easy to sell out if you're a band in high demand, and if you are, you're likely selling out most other arenas on your tour as well. So still curious what makes MSG "the easiest in the world to sell out" as compared to any others.
MSG PJ is by far the toughest ticket I have ever experienced here in NY, and the band has never come close to matching demand here with shows. The last multi night NYC stop at MSG was 2016, and odds to get TC tix were in the single digits.
To this day I can’t recall ever seeing a “blue dot” on the TM for sale page for a PJ show, nor heard a TM phone operator say “sure we have plenty of PJ tix to choose from, would you like a pair in 107.” Neither has ever happened.
So before saying it’s not possible, why don’t we wait for the day you can buy an MSG ticket at face without beating the five percent odds on TC? That day will probably never come
Would love to see them try, but better yet, how about a full US tour can be done in about 25 shows, when they are ready, and it’s been 11 years since the NE saw a full run of shows outside of a small handful in 2016.
I agree with everything you said. You do understand why some may feel it doesn't apply to FIFTEEN MSG shows in one bunch though, right? It was never about whether they could sell out 1 or 2 or even 3 shows. But hopefully you understand that 3 vs. 15 is a wholly different calculation.
Even those who understand that some do think it's possible, and really it's only a discussion because there are ZERO indicators it's anything Pearl Jam would ever even WANT to do, even if they were likely to pull it off. But it's a fun conversation, and so far I continue to not see evidence that 15 shows would sell out based on anything anyone's said, although I think it was Get_Right who made the true & key observation about media holds on tix which means seats filled that don't have to be sold.
Completely agree about wildly preferring 25 shows spread across 25 US cities instead of 15 at MSG.
I can't think of anything more lame and lackluster than 15 shows at one venue in a month. How can any band not feel like they are just going through the motions when they hit show 5 or 6 at the same venue, let alone 15.
People have been speculating, discussing, and suggesting an NYC residency for years given the high demand for past shows. 15 MSG shows is roughly 300,000 tickets. That might be exactly what it takes to get tickets in the hands of real fans at "face value" or at a reasonable price for verified sales or premium. The more interesting question is could the 10C sell out its allotment of tickets for 15 nights at MSG. Is there 15x the demand as there was for a single show? We know that TM/LN will deploy their usual tactics with any remaining seats. Given the fact that it was not as hard to get MSG tickets day of, and that TM in fact sold good, verified fan face value seats day of, (I am not sure I have seen this before with an act in high demand), I think the answer is most likely no unless the band promised something limited and special like no other shows for two years, acoustic sets or no repeats. But that is all just masturbatory speculation.
I can't think of anything more lame and lackluster than 15 shows at one venue in a month. How can any band not feel like they are just going through the motions when they hit show 5 or 6 at the same venue, let alone 15.
At the end of the day they're working and aren't going to be having fun every night even if they're playing a different venue. Honestly, I bet most artists would kill to have that kind of demand in a single location so that they can post up at an apartment for an entire month instead of traveling to a new hotel every other night. Especially if they're in NYC, where they are bound to have folks to spend time with on the off days.
I can't think of anything more lame and lackluster than 15 shows at one venue in a month. How can any band not feel like they are just going through the motions when they hit show 5 or 6 at the same venue, let alone 15.
Massive savings rather than tour. Less strain on the artists that can pull it off.
Honesty think you may see this more and more.
Marquee 91 Wetlands 91 CBGB 91 Roseland 91 and many, many more
I can't think of anything more lame and lackluster than 15 shows at one venue in a month. How can any band not feel like they are just going through the motions when they hit show 5 or 6 at the same venue, let alone 15.
At the end of the day they're working and aren't going to be having fun every night even if they're playing a different venue. Honestly, I bet most artists would kill to have that kind of demand in a single location so that they can post up at an apartment for an entire month instead of traveling to a new hotel every other night. Especially if they're in NYC, where they are bound to have folks to spend time with on the off days.
It's different for someone like Harry Styles who is used to doing show after show of top 40 songs that maybe his heart is in some but he has no problem "playing the part" of a dynamic performer night after night.
For a band that tries to be real and channel real energy, playing the same city and room for 15 shows sounds miserable. And boring. How many of the people in the front will be the same every single night? How many of the fans who come to 4, 8, 12, all 15 shows will keep their energy up? How many tix will go to - as someone before advocating for why it would be an "easy sell out" - how many tix will go to "tourists" and curious people who aren't big fans but are like "Hey, why not we're in NYC and how is the energy of those shows vastly different from a single sold out MSG full of fans who had to WORK to get their tix?
And bands all the time talk about that whole different level of energy for an audience in a new city that is SO HYPED because it's the only show most in the audience will see, and maybe the band hasn't played there in years, and just the fact it's a new city and the band feels a different sense of obligation and determination to give this audience that may only see this show the best show they can... That ALL goes into how a dynamic passionate band that plays dynamic energized meaningful music feels about shows.
There's a reason the 2nd night in the same city is often the better show. Band more loose, willing to take more risks, know they played the hits the 1st night. But by night 4? Night 7? Night FOURTEEN???
I'm with iOnlyownMymind, 15 nights in one venue sounds like a slog and recipe for many weak or tired shows, unless you perform the exact same show every night no matter WHERE you are... and are grossing $10 MILLION PER SHOW...
I can't think of anything more lame and lackluster than 15 shows at one venue in a month. How can any band not feel like they are just going through the motions when they hit show 5 or 6 at the same venue, let alone 15.
At the end of the day they're working and aren't going to be having fun every night even if they're playing a different venue. Honestly, I bet most artists would kill to have that kind of demand in a single location so that they can post up at an apartment for an entire month instead of traveling to a new hotel every other night. Especially if they're in NYC, where they are bound to have folks to spend time with on the off days.
It's different for someone like Harry Styles who is used to doing show after show of top 40 songs that maybe his heart is in some but he has no problem "playing the part" of a dynamic performer night after night.
For a band that tries to be real and channel real energy, playing the same city and room for 15 shows sounds miserable. And boring. How many of the people in the front will be the same every single night? How many of the fans who come to 4, 8, 12, all 15 shows will keep their energy up? How many tix will go to - as someone before advocating for why it would be an "easy sell out" - how many tix will go to "tourists" and curious people who aren't big fans but are like "Hey, why not we're in NYC and how is the energy of those shows vastly different from a single sold out MSG full of fans who had to WORK to get their tix?
And bands all the time talk about that whole different level of energy for an audience in a new city that is SO HYPED because it's the only show most in the audience will see, and maybe the band hasn't played there in years, and just the fact it's a new city and the band feels a different sense of obligation and determination to give this audience that may only see this show the best show they can... That ALL goes into how a dynamic passionate band that plays dynamic energized meaningful music feels about shows.
There's a reason the 2nd night in the same city is often the better show. Band more loose, willing to take more risks, know they played the hits the 1st night. But by night 4? Night 7? Night FOURTEEN???
I'm with iOnlyownMymind, 15 nights in one venue sounds like a slog and recipe for many weak or tired shows, unless you perform the exact same show every night no matter WHERE you are... and are grossing $10 MILLION PER SHOW...
You make some good points. Phish fans who hit that 13-day MSG run would probably differ with the assessment that a dynamic touring rock act can't bring it every single night for multiple nights at the same location. In general, I think a lot of people have a tendency to romanticize what they do and I wouldn't legitimately believe Eddie Vedder if he once said in a hypothetical interview that he misses Indianapolis and the band will BRING IT the next time they're there because he feels an obligation to the fans local to that area that haven't seen them in years. The reason they don't go there is because they don't like it there, don't want to play there, and would rather play in NYC 20 or 30 times before going there even once. Sure, maybe the show will be great, but they still have to spend 3 or 4 days in a place that sucks ass over somewhere cool where they actually have friends and family.
Post edited by AlaG on
0
on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,933
People are acting like Pearl Jam would be forced to do a 15 show residency. They would only do it if they all wanted to do it. And if they all wanted to do it then their energy would be great for every show.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
1) What year did Phish do 13 nights? Was every night sold out?
2) What evidence is there Phish would sell out 13 nights at MSG in 2022?
2017, not only did they sell it out they didn't repeat a song over the entire run with each nights setlist being themed to the doughnut they gave out at the door. I bet given enough advertisement and media coverage and they could do it again Hippies are crazy
Comments
To me your comment only makes sense if bands who otherwise are NOT selling out arenas on the rest of their tour, regularly sell out MSG. Do you have examples of that, or what are you basing "easiest arena to sell out" on?
I don't think KISS sold out MSG now on the End of the Road tour. Ace joked about it.
MSG is only easy to sell out if you're a band in high demand, and if you are, you're likely selling out most other arenas on your tour as well. So still curious what makes MSG "the easiest in the world to sell out" as compared to any others.
Is any of that what you were talking about when you said "What does it even mean to sell out these days?", or what do you mean?
Something like that. TM/LN do not buy the tix that are held back. They simply do not release tickets to the public at the fixed onsale price. That is why is says "tickets are not available" rather than "sold out." It is a coordinated effort by TM/LN to capitalize on presale and onsale demand. They strategically release seats for each onsale and then use an algorithm to price premium seats. And this revenue is shared with the band. It is designed to capture the revenue that is earned by stubhub and other resellers. I believe that is the main reason PJ would agree to premium pricing, it puts that money in their pockets instead of the resellers. Not sure they have much of a choice given that the fan club gets many of the best, and most valuable, seats in the house. It is a quid pro quo.
I have learned, from an artist directly, that artists DO have some say in at least pricing for their fanclub tix. I won't name the artist but it's someone who sold out MSG this year, and I had the chance to specifically bring up dynamic pricing and thank them for fact that their fanclub seats earlier this year when they were playing amphitheaters/sheds were about $160, whereas worse seats behind fanclub (but still good seats) the base price was $399. The fanclub seats had NO dynamic pricing, although they also didn't go onsale through TM or LN initially even though the public onsale was through TM. Same was true for the MSG tix, where fanclub great tix were more like $199.00, but again NO dynamic pricing for the fanclub, and I can't remember but I think those were not onsale through TM for the fanclub presale either.
So some artists are holding the line as best they can, and I'm super grateful to them.
The artists do have the ability to control pricing, no question about it. I have said this before but it is the resale market that is driving prices up. Scalpers have always existed but in this digital world there is visibility to the numbers. They are too big to ignore. If I was an artist I would not be very happy about a company, that is not my partner, making millions of dollars off my concerts. It is a tough situation for an artist.
Also, and this part I really don't know about, I only know what I read on the same artist's fanclub chat about ticket onsales where a representative of the artist actually answers questions in real time for the fanclub onsales, and it sounds like they also use technology or a contractor to try to identify where any one account is trying to buy a lot of tickets. I don't know how they do it, I just know they talk about how sometimes more tickets will come up again after it looks like tix are gone, because they are tracking down scalpers and when they i.d. them, they put those tix back in the pool. But I don't now how that works, and even though this is a high demand artist, I'm sure there is more demand for PJ tix so that part might be impossible or much harder with PJ.
Not 100% sure but I believe resales HAVE to allowed in New York by law. I believe that most fan clubs are outsourced. I think that is what happened with Pearl Jam when they launched this site and they split the memberships into digital and analog. We also saw the merch offerings expand around that time. I do not know it for a fact, but it makes sense. These companies are in the business of running and monetizing fan clubs. I would not be surprised if technology is used to screen buyers or monitor onsales, it also makes sense. I do not have any actual knowledge or details, but it seems probable.
Winking face
To this day I can’t recall ever seeing a “blue dot” on the TM for sale page for a PJ show, nor heard a TM phone operator say “sure we have plenty of PJ tix to choose from, would you like a pair in 107.” Neither has ever happened.
Would love to see them try, but better yet, how about a full US tour can be done in about 25 shows, when they are ready, and it’s been 11 years since the NE saw a full run of shows outside of a small handful in 2016.
Even those who understand that some do think it's possible, and really it's only a discussion because there are ZERO indicators it's anything Pearl Jam would ever even WANT to do, even if they were likely to pull it off. But it's a fun conversation, and so far I continue to not see evidence that 15 shows would sell out based on anything anyone's said, although I think it was Get_Right who made the true & key observation about media holds on tix which means seats filled that don't have to be sold.
Completely agree about wildly preferring 25 shows spread across 25 US cities instead of 15 at MSG.
Wetlands 91
CBGB 91
Roseland 91
and many, many more
For a band that tries to be real and channel real energy, playing the same city and room for 15 shows sounds miserable. And boring. How many of the people in the front will be the same every single night? How many of the fans who come to 4, 8, 12, all 15 shows will keep their energy up? How many tix will go to - as someone before advocating for why it would be an "easy sell out" - how many tix will go to "tourists" and curious people who aren't big fans but are like "Hey, why not we're in NYC and how is the energy of those shows vastly different from a single sold out MSG full of fans who had to WORK to get their tix?
And bands all the time talk about that whole different level of energy for an audience in a new city that is SO HYPED because it's the only show most in the audience will see, and maybe the band hasn't played there in years, and just the fact it's a new city and the band feels a different sense of obligation and determination to give this audience that may only see this show the best show they can... That ALL goes into how a dynamic passionate band that plays dynamic energized meaningful music feels about shows.
There's a reason the 2nd night in the same city is often the better show. Band more loose, willing to take more risks, know they played the hits the 1st night. But by night 4? Night 7? Night FOURTEEN???
I'm with iOnlyownMymind, 15 nights in one venue sounds like a slog and recipe for many weak or tired shows, unless you perform the exact same show every night no matter WHERE you are... and are grossing $10 MILLION PER SHOW...