GOP

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

people are AGAINST education now? wtf?

Well I do think it would be helpful if we could all be open and honest about some things.  This all stems from people thinking their kids are going to be made into some kinda far leaning liberal through controlled information and pushing by teachers.

The reality is... and I know this is a shocker... their are teachers/prof that push their agendas on kids.  There will be other kids and groups doing that as well.  I do think profs can get out of line, but in reality all of this is good as it challenges current assumptions and likely does result in some changes of opinion/beliefs.  I think the fact the the left often tries to dismiss this idea of profs pushing their beliefs is disingenuous.  If you don't think it's happening, you just aren't paying attention.  And then the right chooses to demonize instead of believe it's ok to be exposed to a diversity of thought.

Another example - I thought De Santis was being a complete ass and florida really dumb about banning math textbooks....then I saw some of the charts and questions in it. While not terrible, they were certainly placed there to try and develop or shift bias.  It isn't really that hard to see.  So as usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle on a lot of things but we'd rather demonize everything.  Some people fully deserve being demonized...but it's not as many as we all seem to think. 

Gern Blansten said:

They are so confident too. Two doors down from us lives a complete tRumpster moron. He is 40 years old and weighs about 400 lbs. As far as I know he has never had a job other than plowing snow and mowing some yards on his own a few years back. This fucking asshole doesn't even mow his own yard or clear his own driveway of snow for his mom who is about 70.

He knows we vote democrat because my wife made the mistake of adding him as an FB "friend". 

Now every time he sees us out he makes stupid comments like "how do you like gas prices?"

I do this fucking asshole's tax return...the most money he has made was $18K in 2021 which was all unemployment benefits. Yet he will be the first one complaining about people sucking off the system.

Gern Blansten said:

Now every time he sees us out he makes stupid comments like "how do you like gas prices?"

OnWis97 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's funny to me that people see education as an indoctrination into a certain political ideology.....the same people that go to church and/or wear MAGA gear. oh, the irony. 

It's another projection..."brainwashed." I know this can be a sensitive topic but I can't think of anything as brainwashing as religion. Except maybe alt-right media.

The education thing is interesting. I was a political science major and I don't remember anyone really pushing anything on me. But 1) as a liberal, I was already there any maybe coming from my echo chambers, I didn't notice (I'm being 89% sarcastic) and 2) I probably don't even grasp the conservative threshold for "indoctrination." I took a class called "comparative politics" and we studied like four different areas. And we learned about the installation of Pinochet in Chile and the US's role and preference for him over socialism. It was useful, and I suppose it may have been included there because some tenure-protected marxist professor wanted to take the United States down a peg. But as far as I know everything I learned actually happened and it's one of the specific parts of those political science classes I recall. #indoctrinated.

The other thing about education is that there's some blowback from decades of high schools and pop culture telling kids that college was the ideal. And I think there was (still is?) and unspoken but obvious shaming of trade schools, the military and, especially, just getting a job. So every time I see social media posts about valuing trade schools (a good message in itself) the majority of responses are pouncing on leaning a useful skill instead of spending four years getting drunk and getting a degree in 17th Century Albanian Literature. I think some of it is a bit of fighting back on the old "college or you're a loser" narrative, but really, is it OK for people to just do whatever's right for them. I don't think it's usually even poltical (though there is the occasional "liberal indoctrination" angle, to be sure). But many people really believe we should all either be going to trade schools or if we want to be going to college we must spend two years at community college to save money (and everything else is wrong). It's all crap and maybe it used to just be college kids looking down at everyone but we're now all looking down at each other. 

I'll be honest, I feel into that trap, as well, coming from a family of liberal arts bachelors degrees. I'm fortunate that this was the actual right path for me.  Some people learned the hard way (i.e., two years of tuition before dropping out). And you know something, socially, I'd have been hit hard staying home and doing two years of CC. Four years at a big University was absolutely the right thing for me. So sometimes the high-and-mighty return-of-shaming pisses me off. What I'd really like to see is 1) high schools, parents, etc. letting kids know all their options and 2) all of us just letting each other do what's best for us. It might be CC...the military...expensive Ivy League school...whatever.

I will also go to my grave believing that there is value to a well-rounded liberal arts* education along with the "college experience" (which can be had with little/no drinking). But I also understand that that's not best for everyone and the rising cost drives a need to be a bit more utilitarian with these plans.

I think college / high-profile college is still valued in an unfortunate way, as evidenced by the scandal where 50 people (including a couple of celebrities) bribed their kids into high-profile schools. If you're super rich, why isn't it OK for your kid to go to Fresno State or the University of Iowa? Does it have to be Northwestern, USC or Ivy? I think that's an indication that the elitism thing is not totally without merit. And what if a CEO's kid wants to become a plumber? Is that wrong? I think most of us kinda think it is, but why?


*Liberal arts is an unfortunate name that I supect gives a little extra push to the anti-education crowd.

Cropduster-80 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's funny to me that people see education as an indoctrination into a certain political ideology.....the same people that go to church and/or wear MAGA gear. oh, the irony. 

It's another projection..."brainwashed." I know this can be a sensitive topic but I can't think of anything as brainwashing as religion. Except maybe alt-right media.

The education thing is interesting. I was a political science major and I don't remember anyone really pushing anything on me. But 1) as a liberal, I was already there any maybe coming from my echo chambers, I didn't notice (I'm being 89% sarcastic) and 2) I probably don't even grasp the conservative threshold for "indoctrination." I took a class called "comparative politics" and we studied like four different areas. And we learned about the installation of Pinochet in Chile and the US's role and preference for him over socialism. It was useful, and I suppose it may have been included there because some tenure-protected marxist professor wanted to take the United States down a peg. But as far as I know everything I learned actually happened and it's one of the specific parts of those political science classes I recall. #indoctrinated.

The other thing about education is that there's some blowback from decades of high schools and pop culture telling kids that college was the ideal. And I think there was (still is?) and unspoken but obvious shaming of trade schools, the military and, especially, just getting a job. So every time I see social media posts about valuing trade schools (a good message in itself) the majority of responses are pouncing on leaning a useful skill instead of spending four years getting drunk and getting a degree in 17th Century Albanian Literature. I think some of it is a bit of fighting back on the old "college or you're a loser" narrative, but really, is it OK for people to just do whatever's right for them. I don't think it's usually even poltical (though there is the occasional "liberal indoctrination" angle, to be sure). But many people really believe we should all either be going to trade schools or if we want to be going to college we must spend two years at community college to save money (and everything else is wrong). It's all crap and maybe it used to just be college kids looking down at everyone but we're now all looking down at each other. 

I'll be honest, I feel into that trap, as well, coming from a family of liberal arts bachelors degrees. I'm fortunate that this was the actual right path for me.  Some people learned the hard way (i.e., two years of tuition before dropping out). And you know something, socially, I'd have been hit hard staying home and doing two years of CC. Four years at a big University was absolutely the right thing for me. So sometimes the high-and-mighty return-of-shaming pisses me off. What I'd really like to see is 1) high schools, parents, etc. letting kids know all their options and 2) all of us just letting each other do what's best for us. It might be CC...the military...expensive Ivy League school...whatever.

I will also go to my grave believing that there is value to a well-rounded liberal arts* education along with the "college experience" (which can be had with little/no drinking). But I also understand that that's not best for everyone and the rising cost drives a need to be a bit more utilitarian with these plans.

I think college / high-profile college is still valued in an unfortunate way, as evidenced by the scandal where 50 people (including a couple of celebrities) bribed their kids into high-profile schools. If you're super rich, why isn't it OK for your kid to go to Fresno State or the University of Iowa? Does it have to be Northwestern, USC or Ivy? I think that's an indication that the elitism thing is not totally without merit. And what if a CEO's kid wants to become a plumber? Is that wrong? I think most of us kinda think it is, but why?


*Liberal arts is an unfortunate name that I supect gives a little extra push to the anti-education crowd.

tell me about it. (I know this wasn't the meat of your post, but it struck me because....) last night was my youngest's confirmation mass. when my wife and I got married, and didn't have kids yet, we agreed to raise them catholic (well, not me, her for that portion). Fuck, I just found myself getting angrier and angrier as I sat there during mass, listening to the arch bishop blather on and on about peace and love and husbands and wives and all the bullshit "feel good" shit that comprises about 5% of organized religion (historically speaking). luckily both my kids are already wise to it. they did it for their mom. but this is likely where it stops (and my wife is fine with that-more of a "let's keep the door open for them should they so choose that path). I like to think it has to do with us having a balance in their parenting. But I was also around their age when my lightbulb went on as well. so who knows. 

You just described my life right down to the confirmation mass. My oldest has his is this weekend 

Cropduster-80 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's funny to me that people see education as an indoctrination into a certain political ideology.....the same people that go to church and/or wear MAGA gear. oh, the irony. 

That’s why I’m anti religion.  These damn religious elitists 😂