Unvaccinated?
Comments
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static111 said:
Not sure what you are saying here as it relates to a discussion about people being unvaxxed?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Exactly, so why the need for a government mandate if we are concerned with businesses running themselves as they see fit?Halifax2TheMax said:
What happened to businesses being able to run their businesses as they see fit? Go work for an anti-vaxxer if you don’t want to be vaccinated and keep your job. Freedumbs aren’t just for the anti gay cake bakers.static111 said:
If one party starts pitching that they don't have to worry about losing their jobs and being ostracized due to vaccine status, do you think that may change?jerparker20 said:
All the anti-vax people I know don’t vote.static111 said:
About 50% of the unvaxxed I know are anything but Trumpers or mtg acolytes. However if the trend of vilifying them as if they are continues I would not be surprised if they go to the only group offering them open arms. But by all means let’s shame them and find out.brianlux said:joseph33 said:Just want to know how many of you there are,and why you choose not to be? It seems that this topic has been politicized,I believe in freedom of choice myself,just curious as to others thoughts.That sounds like a vaccination-as-politicized-topic statement. Yes?I don't think this will gain much traction either way. I will be surprised if you get many, if any, "Yeah, I'm unvaccinated" responses here. Maybe try the Marjorie Taylor Greene fan club site?Those that want to sell guns, toxic chemicals or whatever they see fit?Businesses are free to do what they want as long as they don’t pose a risk to public health. Exposing the public to increased risk of catching a deadly disease especially when needing emergency healthcare is not simply allowing a business to do what it wants, it’s protecting public health, similar to those that just want to sell their dangerous chemicals and are subject to govt regulations. Someone posted a link earlier to the NYS healthcare case requiring hospital workers to be vaxxed so comparison seems reasonable0 -
static111 said:
Smart according to what metrics? Most anti vaxxers were anti vax long before trump. Many people still don't trust the vaccine and are waiting to see if there are any long term side effects, many also do not trust the pharmaceutical industrial establishment. I don't think either of those things makes anyone less smart than a person that believes every news story that Big Pharma and the pay to play politicians sell them about the vaccine. Frankly I think there should be more research into how many people in the US have actually had covid and what that means for herd immunity when coupled with the vaccinated population, We might find that there is no reason to be upset with people that have very real concerns about their health and who to trust with it.Gern Blansten said:
Yeah right... They will become trumpsters because smart people advise them to get vaccinatedstatic111 said:
About 50% of the unvaxxed I know are anything but Trumpers or mtg acolytes. However if the trend of vilifying them as if they are continues I would not be surprised if they go to the only group offering them open arms. But by all means let’s shame them and find out.brianlux said:joseph33 said:Just want to know how many of you there are,and why you choose not to be? It seems that this topic has been politicized,I believe in freedom of choice myself,just curious as to others thoughts.That sounds like a vaccination-as-politicized-topic statement. Yes?I don't think this will gain much traction either way. I will be surprised if you get many, if any, "Yeah, I'm unvaccinated" responses here. Maybe try the Marjorie Taylor Greene fan club site?do you think those same folks waiting will weigh the total number of doses given against the number of folks with adverse effects once they've reached whatever arbitrary timeframe they deem satisfactory? Will they attribute those effects to that specific vaccine or apply whatever conclusion to all makers?while we are waiting, will they then take generally accepted proper precautions like masking, distancing, limiting exposure to others?_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
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So why not mask mandates? Its not requiring people to get an "experimental vaccine" with "experimental" chemicals and also protects the public health. From a discussion perspective Delta is known to spread amongst vaccinated people, so wouldn't a mask mandate be safest?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Not sure what you are saying here as it relates to a discussion about people being unvaxxed?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Exactly, so why the need for a government mandate if we are concerned with businesses running themselves as they see fit?Halifax2TheMax said:
What happened to businesses being able to run their businesses as they see fit? Go work for an anti-vaxxer if you don’t want to be vaccinated and keep your job. Freedumbs aren’t just for the anti gay cake bakers.static111 said:
If one party starts pitching that they don't have to worry about losing their jobs and being ostracized due to vaccine status, do you think that may change?jerparker20 said:
All the anti-vax people I know don’t vote.static111 said:
About 50% of the unvaxxed I know are anything but Trumpers or mtg acolytes. However if the trend of vilifying them as if they are continues I would not be surprised if they go to the only group offering them open arms. But by all means let’s shame them and find out.brianlux said:joseph33 said:Just want to know how many of you there are,and why you choose not to be? It seems that this topic has been politicized,I believe in freedom of choice myself,just curious as to others thoughts.That sounds like a vaccination-as-politicized-topic statement. Yes?I don't think this will gain much traction either way. I will be surprised if you get many, if any, "Yeah, I'm unvaccinated" responses here. Maybe try the Marjorie Taylor Greene fan club site?Those that want to sell guns, toxic chemicals or whatever they see fit?Businesses are free to do what they want as long as they don’t pose a risk to public health. Exposing the public to increased risk of catching a deadly disease especially when needing emergency healthcare is not simply allowing a business to do what it wants, it’s protecting public health, similar to those that just want to sell their dangerous chemicals and are subject to govt regulations. Someone posted a link earlier to the NYS healthcare case requiring hospital workers to be vaxxed so comparison seems reasonable
And of course the thing no one wants to talk about, natural immunities and antibodies that people that have been previously infected with covid carry. Why not widespread anti body testing as an additional choice for some of these folks? Why not more widespread testing to discover the amount of people that have actually had covid and what the actual infection/mortality rate are?
We focus too much on N America as well. Until the world has access to vaccination equally the spread will continue and new strains will emerge, whether its from trumpers, hippies, or someone living in remote parts of the globe.
I think that a large part of our current vaccination policy in america is political and certainly meant more to harm a certain segment of the political spectrum than it is to help the rest of us.Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
because the science is sound on this: long term side effects to vaccines simply do not exist past the 40 day mark. this is scientific fact. how come all the people "doing their own research" keep failing to grasp this? why do we keep making excuses for these people?static111 said:
Smart according to what metrics? Most anti vaxxers were anti vax long before trump. Many people still don't trust the vaccine and are waiting to see if there are any long term side effects, many also do not trust the pharmaceutical industrial establishment. I don't think either of those things makes anyone less smart than a person that believes every news story that Big Pharma and the pay to play politicians sell them about the vaccine. Frankly I think there should be more research into how many people in the US have actually had covid and what that means for herd immunity when coupled with the vaccinated population, We might find that there is no reason to be upset with people that have very real concerns about their health and who to trust with it.Gern Blansten said:
Yeah right... They will become trumpsters because smart people advise them to get vaccinatedstatic111 said:
About 50% of the unvaxxed I know are anything but Trumpers or mtg acolytes. However if the trend of vilifying them as if they are continues I would not be surprised if they go to the only group offering them open arms. But by all means let’s shame them and find out.brianlux said:joseph33 said:Just want to know how many of you there are,and why you choose not to be? It seems that this topic has been politicized,I believe in freedom of choice myself,just curious as to others thoughts.That sounds like a vaccination-as-politicized-topic statement. Yes?I don't think this will gain much traction either way. I will be surprised if you get many, if any, "Yeah, I'm unvaccinated" responses here. Maybe try the Marjorie Taylor Greene fan club site?
the vast majority of the politicians, including trump, on that side, that these people listen to, have gotten the vaccine and told them to get it. everyone at fox news has gotten the vaccine.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
HughFreakingDillon said:there was a survey that found the most likely demographic (in ontario I think?) to be unvaxxed/anti-vaxx were liberal women.
https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/corbella-the-vaccine-hesitant-are-typically-40-something-women-in-ontario-who-tend-to-vote-liberal
see above.oftenreading said:
Sure, being anti-vaccination always used to be associated either with being “hippy” or with some fringe religious groups. It never really used to be a conservative thing, until COVID.HughFreakingDillon said:this survey is from 2015: 60 percent of anti vaxxers in the US identify as liberal.
https://qz.com/355398/the-average-anti-vaxxer-is-probably-not-who-you-think-she-is/By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Agreed Hugh when it comes to traditional vaccines, but Mrna vaccines aren't traditional and this is the first time they have been used widely. It is completely understandable to me why people that take this position do. I was in the lets see how it goes camp for a while, but after several months of people getting the vaccine that cleared up my concerns...some people may just not feel secure until even more time has passed. But I guess we just crap on them, while Big Pharma continues to clutch rather than share their patents so that the vaccines could be more readily available in poorer parts of the world. Jonas Salk would roll over in his grave.HughFreakingDillon said:
because the science is sound on this: long term side effects to vaccines simply do not exist past the 40 day mark. this is scientific fact. how come all the people "doing their own research" keep failing to grasp this? why do we keep making excuses for these people?static111 said:
Smart according to what metrics? Most anti vaxxers were anti vax long before trump. Many people still don't trust the vaccine and are waiting to see if there are any long term side effects, many also do not trust the pharmaceutical industrial establishment. I don't think either of those things makes anyone less smart than a person that believes every news story that Big Pharma and the pay to play politicians sell them about the vaccine. Frankly I think there should be more research into how many people in the US have actually had covid and what that means for herd immunity when coupled with the vaccinated population, We might find that there is no reason to be upset with people that have very real concerns about their health and who to trust with it.Gern Blansten said:
Yeah right... They will become trumpsters because smart people advise them to get vaccinatedstatic111 said:
About 50% of the unvaxxed I know are anything but Trumpers or mtg acolytes. However if the trend of vilifying them as if they are continues I would not be surprised if they go to the only group offering them open arms. But by all means let’s shame them and find out.brianlux said:joseph33 said:Just want to know how many of you there are,and why you choose not to be? It seems that this topic has been politicized,I believe in freedom of choice myself,just curious as to others thoughts.That sounds like a vaccination-as-politicized-topic statement. Yes?I don't think this will gain much traction either way. I will be surprised if you get many, if any, "Yeah, I'm unvaccinated" responses here. Maybe try the Marjorie Taylor Greene fan club site?
the vast majority of the politicians, including trump, on that side, that these people listen to, have gotten the vaccine and told them to get it. everyone at fox news has gotten the vaccine.Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
Seems like just trying to own/blame the libs to me. How many other vaccinations have the unvaxxed and their kids received in the past? Polio? Mumps? Rubella? HPV? But oh no, no covid for me. Well, suffer the potential consequences then. No empathy/sympathy left.Red CovidDuring the early months of Covid-19 vaccinations, several major demographic groups lagged in receiving shots, including Black Americans, Latino Americans and Republican voters.More recently, the racial gaps — while still existing — have narrowed. The partisan gap, however, continues to be enormous. A Pew Research Center poll last month found that 86 percent of Democratic voters had received at least one shot, compared with 60 percent of Republican voters.The political divide over vaccinations is so large that almost every reliably blue state now has a higher vaccination rate than almost every reliably red state:
Because the vaccines are so effective at preventing serious illness, Covid deaths are also showing a partisan pattern. Covid is still a national crisis, but the worst forms of it are increasingly concentrated in red America.As is often the case, state-by-state numbers can understate the true pattern, because every state has both liberal and conservative areas. When you look at the county level, the gap can look even starker.Below is a set of charts, created by my colleague Ashley Wu, that offers a close-up of one typical red state, Wyoming, and one typical blue state, Maryland:When Covid was bluerIt’s worth remembering that Covid followed a different pattern for more than a year after its arrival in the U.S. Despite widespread differences in mask wearing — and scientific research suggesting that masks reduce the virus’s spread — the pandemic was if anything worse in blue regions. Masks evidently were not powerful enough to overcome other regional differences, like the amount of international travel that flows through major metro areas, which tend to be politically liberal.Vaccination has changed the situation. The vaccines are powerful enough to overwhelm other differences between blue and red areas.Some left-leaning communities — like many suburbs of New York, San Francisco and Washington, as well as much of New England — have such high vaccination rates that even the unvaccinated are partly protected by the low number of cases. Conservative communities, on the other hand, have been walloped by the highly contagious Delta variant. (You can find data for hundreds of counties here.)
Since Delta began circulating widely in the U.S., Covid has exacted a horrific death toll on red America: In counties where Donald Trump received at least 70 percent of the vote, the virus has killed about 47 out of every 100,000 people since the end of June, according to Charles Gaba, a health care analyst. In counties where Trump won less than 32 percent of the vote, the number is about 10 out of 100,000.And the gap will probably keep growing:Why is this happening?Some of the vaccination gap stems from the libertarian instincts of many Republicans. “They understand freedom as being left alone to make their own choices, and they resent being told what to do,” William Galston has written in The Wall Street Journal.But philosophy is only a partial explanation. In much of the rest of the world, vaccine attitudes do not break down along right-left lines, and some conservative leaders have responded effectively to Covid. So have a few Republican governors in the U.S. “It didn’t have to be this way,” German Lopez of Vox has written.What distinguishes the U.S. is a conservative party — the Republican Party — that has grown hostile to science and empirical evidence in recent decades. A conservative media complex, including Fox News, Sinclair Broadcast Group and various online outlets, echoes and amplifies this hostility. Trump took the conspiratorial thinking to a new level, but he did not create it.“With very little resistance from party leaders,” my colleague Lisa Lerer wrote this summer, many Republicans “have elevated falsehoods and doubts about vaccinations from the fringes of American life to the center of our political conversation.”‘Owning the left’With the death count rising, at least a few Republicans appear to be worried about what their party and its allies have sown.In an article this month for Breitbart, the right-wing website formerly run by Steve Bannon, John Nolte argued that the partisan gap in vaccination rates was part of a liberal plot. Liberals like Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Anthony Fauci and Howard Stern have tried so hard to persuade people to get vaccinated, because they know that Republican voters will do the opposite of whatever they say, Nolte wrote.
His argument is certainly bizarre, given that Democratic politicians have been imploring all Americans to get vaccinated and many Republican politicians have not. But Nolte did offer a glimpse at a creeping political fear among some Republicans. “Right now, a countless number of Trump supporters believe they are owning the left by refusing to take a lifesaving vaccine,” Nolte wrote. “In a country where elections are decided on razor-thin margins, does it not benefit one side if their opponents simply drop dead?”From the NYT email blast. I can't figure out how to post the graphs but basically they show states/counties with high vaccinations rates/lower cases/deaths voted Biden and states with low vaccinations rates and higher cases/deaths voted POOTWH. Don't want to be vaccinated? Fine but suffer the consequences of your freedumb. Out of sympathy/empathy more than a year and a half and 686,000 deaths later.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Confused why no one talks about this as well. It’s just met with “shut up and get vaccinated”. Condescending tones don’t go far. People acting like super heroes because they got a vaccine is also annoying. There’s so much that turns the average person off to getting vaccinated but nobody wants to hear it.static111 said:
So why not mask mandates? Its not requiring people to get an "experimental vaccine" with "experimental" chemicals and also protects the public health. From a discussion perspective Delta is known to spread amongst vaccinated people, so wouldn't a mask mandate be safest?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Not sure what you are saying here as it relates to a discussion about people being unvaxxed?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Exactly, so why the need for a government mandate if we are concerned with businesses running themselves as they see fit?Halifax2TheMax said:
What happened to businesses being able to run their businesses as they see fit? Go work for an anti-vaxxer if you don’t want to be vaccinated and keep your job. Freedumbs aren’t just for the anti gay cake bakers.static111 said:
If one party starts pitching that they don't have to worry about losing their jobs and being ostracized due to vaccine status, do you think that may change?jerparker20 said:
All the anti-vax people I know don’t vote.static111 said:
About 50% of the unvaxxed I know are anything but Trumpers or mtg acolytes. However if the trend of vilifying them as if they are continues I would not be surprised if they go to the only group offering them open arms. But by all means let’s shame them and find out.brianlux said:joseph33 said:Just want to know how many of you there are,and why you choose not to be? It seems that this topic has been politicized,I believe in freedom of choice myself,just curious as to others thoughts.That sounds like a vaccination-as-politicized-topic statement. Yes?I don't think this will gain much traction either way. I will be surprised if you get many, if any, "Yeah, I'm unvaccinated" responses here. Maybe try the Marjorie Taylor Greene fan club site?Those that want to sell guns, toxic chemicals or whatever they see fit?Businesses are free to do what they want as long as they don’t pose a risk to public health. Exposing the public to increased risk of catching a deadly disease especially when needing emergency healthcare is not simply allowing a business to do what it wants, it’s protecting public health, similar to those that just want to sell their dangerous chemicals and are subject to govt regulations. Someone posted a link earlier to the NYS healthcare case requiring hospital workers to be vaxxed so comparison seems reasonable
And of course the thing no one wants to talk about, natural immunities and antibodies that people that have been previously infected with covid carry. Why not widespread anti body testing as an additional choice for some of these folks? Why not more widespread testing to discover the amount of people that have actually had covid and what the actual infection/mortality rate are?
We focus too much on N America as well. Until the world has access to vaccination equally the spread will continue and new strains will emerge, whether its from trumpers, hippies, or someone living in remote parts of the globe.
I think that a large part of our current vaccination policy in america is political and certainly meant more to harm a certain segment of the political spectrum than it is to help the rest of us.0 -
From WaPo:
Since Dec. 14, more than 390,114,000 doses of a coronavirus vaccine have been administered in the U.S.
More than 183,670,000 people have completed vaccination, or about 55.32% of the population. Read more in our vaccination tracker.
From WSJ:
A million kids without parents because their parents died of Covid. I wonder how many were vaxxed or the vax was available? And what are the long term societal "costs" of a million kids growing up without one or both parents?
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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is there any data on viral load of breakthrough cases of those with natural immunity, or what kind of protection is actually afforded to those with natural immunity? maybe this is why it's not talked about. I recall it being theorized that natural immunity would be stronger than manufactured, but now I'm hearing data (note: HEARING, I don't pretend this is factual) that suggests natural immunity doesn't last long at all.nicknyr15 said:
Confused why no one talks about this as well. It’s just met with “shut up and get vaccinated”. Condescending tones don’t go far. People acting like super heroes because they got a vaccine is also annoying. There’s so much that turns the average person off to getting vaccinated but nobody wants to hear it.static111 said:
So why not mask mandates? Its not requiring people to get an "experimental vaccine" with "experimental" chemicals and also protects the public health. From a discussion perspective Delta is known to spread amongst vaccinated people, so wouldn't a mask mandate be safest?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Not sure what you are saying here as it relates to a discussion about people being unvaxxed?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Exactly, so why the need for a government mandate if we are concerned with businesses running themselves as they see fit?Halifax2TheMax said:
What happened to businesses being able to run their businesses as they see fit? Go work for an anti-vaxxer if you don’t want to be vaccinated and keep your job. Freedumbs aren’t just for the anti gay cake bakers.static111 said:
If one party starts pitching that they don't have to worry about losing their jobs and being ostracized due to vaccine status, do you think that may change?jerparker20 said:
All the anti-vax people I know don’t vote.static111 said:
About 50% of the unvaxxed I know are anything but Trumpers or mtg acolytes. However if the trend of vilifying them as if they are continues I would not be surprised if they go to the only group offering them open arms. But by all means let’s shame them and find out.brianlux said:joseph33 said:Just want to know how many of you there are,and why you choose not to be? It seems that this topic has been politicized,I believe in freedom of choice myself,just curious as to others thoughts.That sounds like a vaccination-as-politicized-topic statement. Yes?I don't think this will gain much traction either way. I will be surprised if you get many, if any, "Yeah, I'm unvaccinated" responses here. Maybe try the Marjorie Taylor Greene fan club site?Those that want to sell guns, toxic chemicals or whatever they see fit?Businesses are free to do what they want as long as they don’t pose a risk to public health. Exposing the public to increased risk of catching a deadly disease especially when needing emergency healthcare is not simply allowing a business to do what it wants, it’s protecting public health, similar to those that just want to sell their dangerous chemicals and are subject to govt regulations. Someone posted a link earlier to the NYS healthcare case requiring hospital workers to be vaxxed so comparison seems reasonable
And of course the thing no one wants to talk about, natural immunities and antibodies that people that have been previously infected with covid carry. Why not widespread anti body testing as an additional choice for some of these folks? Why not more widespread testing to discover the amount of people that have actually had covid and what the actual infection/mortality rate are?
We focus too much on N America as well. Until the world has access to vaccination equally the spread will continue and new strains will emerge, whether its from trumpers, hippies, or someone living in remote parts of the globe.
I think that a large part of our current vaccination policy in america is political and certainly meant more to harm a certain segment of the political spectrum than it is to help the rest of us.
it wasn't "shut up and get vaccinated" until the last few months. don't you think nurses and doctors working covid wards the past 18 months are getting sick and tired of trying to convince people? they are exhausted. now they have people coming into ICU's and saying they wished they'd gotten the vaccine. How hard would it be to not be "that" nurse and say "well, we've been telling people like you for months, now open wide, dumbass."?
or the restaurant owner or waitress just wanting to get the fuck back to work, but nope, not yet, the unvaxxed "aren't yet convinced, hopefully you won't lose your home while we convince them".
you guys really can't see why so many people have had it?By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Absolutely I can, but I thought the OP wanted to have discussion with this thread and not looking down the nose in condescending tones statements. So I am trying to foster discussion. I also don't believe ostracizing people and taking away their livelihoods gets us out of the covid mess, especially with such low global vaccination numbers due largely to Big Pharma not sharing their toys.HughFreakingDillon said:
is there any data on viral load of breakthrough cases of those with natural immunity, or what kind of protection is actually afforded to those with natural immunity? maybe this is why it's not talked about. I recall it being theorized that natural immunity would be stronger than manufactured, but now I'm hearing data (note: HEARING, I don't pretend this is factual) that suggests natural immunity doesn't last long at all.nicknyr15 said:
Confused why no one talks about this as well. It’s just met with “shut up and get vaccinated”. Condescending tones don’t go far. People acting like super heroes because they got a vaccine is also annoying. There’s so much that turns the average person off to getting vaccinated but nobody wants to hear it.static111 said:
So why not mask mandates? Its not requiring people to get an "experimental vaccine" with "experimental" chemicals and also protects the public health. From a discussion perspective Delta is known to spread amongst vaccinated people, so wouldn't a mask mandate be safest?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Not sure what you are saying here as it relates to a discussion about people being unvaxxed?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Exactly, so why the need for a government mandate if we are concerned with businesses running themselves as they see fit?Halifax2TheMax said:
What happened to businesses being able to run their businesses as they see fit? Go work for an anti-vaxxer if you don’t want to be vaccinated and keep your job. Freedumbs aren’t just for the anti gay cake bakers.static111 said:
If one party starts pitching that they don't have to worry about losing their jobs and being ostracized due to vaccine status, do you think that may change?jerparker20 said:
All the anti-vax people I know don’t vote.static111 said:
About 50% of the unvaxxed I know are anything but Trumpers or mtg acolytes. However if the trend of vilifying them as if they are continues I would not be surprised if they go to the only group offering them open arms. But by all means let’s shame them and find out.brianlux said:joseph33 said:Just want to know how many of you there are,and why you choose not to be? It seems that this topic has been politicized,I believe in freedom of choice myself,just curious as to others thoughts.That sounds like a vaccination-as-politicized-topic statement. Yes?I don't think this will gain much traction either way. I will be surprised if you get many, if any, "Yeah, I'm unvaccinated" responses here. Maybe try the Marjorie Taylor Greene fan club site?Those that want to sell guns, toxic chemicals or whatever they see fit?Businesses are free to do what they want as long as they don’t pose a risk to public health. Exposing the public to increased risk of catching a deadly disease especially when needing emergency healthcare is not simply allowing a business to do what it wants, it’s protecting public health, similar to those that just want to sell their dangerous chemicals and are subject to govt regulations. Someone posted a link earlier to the NYS healthcare case requiring hospital workers to be vaxxed so comparison seems reasonable
And of course the thing no one wants to talk about, natural immunities and antibodies that people that have been previously infected with covid carry. Why not widespread anti body testing as an additional choice for some of these folks? Why not more widespread testing to discover the amount of people that have actually had covid and what the actual infection/mortality rate are?
We focus too much on N America as well. Until the world has access to vaccination equally the spread will continue and new strains will emerge, whether its from trumpers, hippies, or someone living in remote parts of the globe.
I think that a large part of our current vaccination policy in america is political and certainly meant more to harm a certain segment of the political spectrum than it is to help the rest of us.
it wasn't "shut up and get vaccinated" until the last few months. don't you think nurses and doctors working covid wards the past 18 months are getting sick and tired of trying to convince people? they are exhausted. now they have people coming into ICU's and saying they wished they'd gotten the vaccine. How hard would it be to not be "that" nurse and say "well, we've been telling people like you for months, now open wide, dumbass."?
or the restaurant owner or waitress just wanting to get the fuck back to work, but nope, not yet, the unvaxxed "aren't yet convinced, hopefully you won't lose your home while we convince them".
you guys really can't see why so many people have had it?Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
I'm actually curious as to your thoughts on my first paragraph.static111 said:
Absolutely I can, but I thought the OP wanted to have discussion with this thread and not looking down the nose in condescending tones statements. So I am trying to foster discussion. I also don't believe ostracizing people and taking away their livelihoods gets us out of the covid mess, especially with such low global vaccination numbers due largely to Big Pharma not sharing their toys.HughFreakingDillon said:
is there any data on viral load of breakthrough cases of those with natural immunity, or what kind of protection is actually afforded to those with natural immunity? maybe this is why it's not talked about. I recall it being theorized that natural immunity would be stronger than manufactured, but now I'm hearing data (note: HEARING, I don't pretend this is factual) that suggests natural immunity doesn't last long at all.nicknyr15 said:
Confused why no one talks about this as well. It’s just met with “shut up and get vaccinated”. Condescending tones don’t go far. People acting like super heroes because they got a vaccine is also annoying. There’s so much that turns the average person off to getting vaccinated but nobody wants to hear it.static111 said:
So why not mask mandates? Its not requiring people to get an "experimental vaccine" with "experimental" chemicals and also protects the public health. From a discussion perspective Delta is known to spread amongst vaccinated people, so wouldn't a mask mandate be safest?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Not sure what you are saying here as it relates to a discussion about people being unvaxxed?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Exactly, so why the need for a government mandate if we are concerned with businesses running themselves as they see fit?Halifax2TheMax said:
What happened to businesses being able to run their businesses as they see fit? Go work for an anti-vaxxer if you don’t want to be vaccinated and keep your job. Freedumbs aren’t just for the anti gay cake bakers.static111 said:
If one party starts pitching that they don't have to worry about losing their jobs and being ostracized due to vaccine status, do you think that may change?jerparker20 said:
All the anti-vax people I know don’t vote.static111 said:
About 50% of the unvaxxed I know are anything but Trumpers or mtg acolytes. However if the trend of vilifying them as if they are continues I would not be surprised if they go to the only group offering them open arms. But by all means let’s shame them and find out.brianlux said:joseph33 said:Just want to know how many of you there are,and why you choose not to be? It seems that this topic has been politicized,I believe in freedom of choice myself,just curious as to others thoughts.That sounds like a vaccination-as-politicized-topic statement. Yes?I don't think this will gain much traction either way. I will be surprised if you get many, if any, "Yeah, I'm unvaccinated" responses here. Maybe try the Marjorie Taylor Greene fan club site?Those that want to sell guns, toxic chemicals or whatever they see fit?Businesses are free to do what they want as long as they don’t pose a risk to public health. Exposing the public to increased risk of catching a deadly disease especially when needing emergency healthcare is not simply allowing a business to do what it wants, it’s protecting public health, similar to those that just want to sell their dangerous chemicals and are subject to govt regulations. Someone posted a link earlier to the NYS healthcare case requiring hospital workers to be vaxxed so comparison seems reasonable
And of course the thing no one wants to talk about, natural immunities and antibodies that people that have been previously infected with covid carry. Why not widespread anti body testing as an additional choice for some of these folks? Why not more widespread testing to discover the amount of people that have actually had covid and what the actual infection/mortality rate are?
We focus too much on N America as well. Until the world has access to vaccination equally the spread will continue and new strains will emerge, whether its from trumpers, hippies, or someone living in remote parts of the globe.
I think that a large part of our current vaccination policy in america is political and certainly meant more to harm a certain segment of the political spectrum than it is to help the rest of us.
it wasn't "shut up and get vaccinated" until the last few months. don't you think nurses and doctors working covid wards the past 18 months are getting sick and tired of trying to convince people? they are exhausted. now they have people coming into ICU's and saying they wished they'd gotten the vaccine. How hard would it be to not be "that" nurse and say "well, we've been telling people like you for months, now open wide, dumbass."?
or the restaurant owner or waitress just wanting to get the fuck back to work, but nope, not yet, the unvaxxed "aren't yet convinced, hopefully you won't lose your home while we convince them".
you guys really can't see why so many people have had it?By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
The only info I have seen so far is the study from israel that shows basically. unvaxxed is zero protection..Vaxxed is good protection, previous infection is good protection and previous infection plus vax is best protection...of course that is a simplification, but I am not going to qoute every article on it. I think that there really should be more research into natural immunities and the durability of natural immunities as it relates to the protection and durability of the vaccines.HughFreakingDillon said:
I'm actually curious as to your thoughts on my first paragraph.static111 said:
Absolutely I can, but I thought the OP wanted to have discussion with this thread and not looking down the nose in condescending tones statements. So I am trying to foster discussion. I also don't believe ostracizing people and taking away their livelihoods gets us out of the covid mess, especially with such low global vaccination numbers due largely to Big Pharma not sharing their toys.HughFreakingDillon said:
is there any data on viral load of breakthrough cases of those with natural immunity, or what kind of protection is actually afforded to those with natural immunity? maybe this is why it's not talked about. I recall it being theorized that natural immunity would be stronger than manufactured, but now I'm hearing data (note: HEARING, I don't pretend this is factual) that suggests natural immunity doesn't last long at all.nicknyr15 said:
Confused why no one talks about this as well. It’s just met with “shut up and get vaccinated”. Condescending tones don’t go far. People acting like super heroes because they got a vaccine is also annoying. There’s so much that turns the average person off to getting vaccinated but nobody wants to hear it.static111 said:
So why not mask mandates? Its not requiring people to get an "experimental vaccine" with "experimental" chemicals and also protects the public health. From a discussion perspective Delta is known to spread amongst vaccinated people, so wouldn't a mask mandate be safest?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Not sure what you are saying here as it relates to a discussion about people being unvaxxed?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Exactly, so why the need for a government mandate if we are concerned with businesses running themselves as they see fit?Halifax2TheMax said:
What happened to businesses being able to run their businesses as they see fit? Go work for an anti-vaxxer if you don’t want to be vaccinated and keep your job. Freedumbs aren’t just for the anti gay cake bakers.static111 said:
If one party starts pitching that they don't have to worry about losing their jobs and being ostracized due to vaccine status, do you think that may change?jerparker20 said:
All the anti-vax people I know don’t vote.static111 said:
About 50% of the unvaxxed I know are anything but Trumpers or mtg acolytes. However if the trend of vilifying them as if they are continues I would not be surprised if they go to the only group offering them open arms. But by all means let’s shame them and find out.brianlux said:joseph33 said:Just want to know how many of you there are,and why you choose not to be? It seems that this topic has been politicized,I believe in freedom of choice myself,just curious as to others thoughts.That sounds like a vaccination-as-politicized-topic statement. Yes?I don't think this will gain much traction either way. I will be surprised if you get many, if any, "Yeah, I'm unvaccinated" responses here. Maybe try the Marjorie Taylor Greene fan club site?Those that want to sell guns, toxic chemicals or whatever they see fit?Businesses are free to do what they want as long as they don’t pose a risk to public health. Exposing the public to increased risk of catching a deadly disease especially when needing emergency healthcare is not simply allowing a business to do what it wants, it’s protecting public health, similar to those that just want to sell their dangerous chemicals and are subject to govt regulations. Someone posted a link earlier to the NYS healthcare case requiring hospital workers to be vaxxed so comparison seems reasonable
And of course the thing no one wants to talk about, natural immunities and antibodies that people that have been previously infected with covid carry. Why not widespread anti body testing as an additional choice for some of these folks? Why not more widespread testing to discover the amount of people that have actually had covid and what the actual infection/mortality rate are?
We focus too much on N America as well. Until the world has access to vaccination equally the spread will continue and new strains will emerge, whether its from trumpers, hippies, or someone living in remote parts of the globe.
I think that a large part of our current vaccination policy in america is political and certainly meant more to harm a certain segment of the political spectrum than it is to help the rest of us.
it wasn't "shut up and get vaccinated" until the last few months. don't you think nurses and doctors working covid wards the past 18 months are getting sick and tired of trying to convince people? they are exhausted. now they have people coming into ICU's and saying they wished they'd gotten the vaccine. How hard would it be to not be "that" nurse and say "well, we've been telling people like you for months, now open wide, dumbass."?
or the restaurant owner or waitress just wanting to get the fuck back to work, but nope, not yet, the unvaxxed "aren't yet convinced, hopefully you won't lose your home while we convince them".
you guys really can't see why so many people have had it?Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
previous infection plus vax is better protection than vax alone? I hadn't heard that. I'd be interested in a source.static111 said:
The only info I have seen so far is the study from israel that shows basically. unvaxxed is zero protection..Vaxxed is good protection, previous infection is good protection and previous infection plus vax is best protection...of course that is a simplification, but I am not going to qoute every article on it. I think that there really should be more research into natural immunities and the durability of natural immunities as it relates to the protection and durability of the vaccines.HughFreakingDillon said:
I'm actually curious as to your thoughts on my first paragraph.static111 said:
Absolutely I can, but I thought the OP wanted to have discussion with this thread and not looking down the nose in condescending tones statements. So I am trying to foster discussion. I also don't believe ostracizing people and taking away their livelihoods gets us out of the covid mess, especially with such low global vaccination numbers due largely to Big Pharma not sharing their toys.HughFreakingDillon said:
is there any data on viral load of breakthrough cases of those with natural immunity, or what kind of protection is actually afforded to those with natural immunity? maybe this is why it's not talked about. I recall it being theorized that natural immunity would be stronger than manufactured, but now I'm hearing data (note: HEARING, I don't pretend this is factual) that suggests natural immunity doesn't last long at all.nicknyr15 said:
Confused why no one talks about this as well. It’s just met with “shut up and get vaccinated”. Condescending tones don’t go far. People acting like super heroes because they got a vaccine is also annoying. There’s so much that turns the average person off to getting vaccinated but nobody wants to hear it.static111 said:
So why not mask mandates? Its not requiring people to get an "experimental vaccine" with "experimental" chemicals and also protects the public health. From a discussion perspective Delta is known to spread amongst vaccinated people, so wouldn't a mask mandate be safest?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Not sure what you are saying here as it relates to a discussion about people being unvaxxed?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Exactly, so why the need for a government mandate if we are concerned with businesses running themselves as they see fit?Halifax2TheMax said:
What happened to businesses being able to run their businesses as they see fit? Go work for an anti-vaxxer if you don’t want to be vaccinated and keep your job. Freedumbs aren’t just for the anti gay cake bakers.static111 said:
If one party starts pitching that they don't have to worry about losing their jobs and being ostracized due to vaccine status, do you think that may change?jerparker20 said:
All the anti-vax people I know don’t vote.static111 said:
About 50% of the unvaxxed I know are anything but Trumpers or mtg acolytes. However if the trend of vilifying them as if they are continues I would not be surprised if they go to the only group offering them open arms. But by all means let’s shame them and find out.brianlux said:joseph33 said:Just want to know how many of you there are,and why you choose not to be? It seems that this topic has been politicized,I believe in freedom of choice myself,just curious as to others thoughts.That sounds like a vaccination-as-politicized-topic statement. Yes?I don't think this will gain much traction either way. I will be surprised if you get many, if any, "Yeah, I'm unvaccinated" responses here. Maybe try the Marjorie Taylor Greene fan club site?Those that want to sell guns, toxic chemicals or whatever they see fit?Businesses are free to do what they want as long as they don’t pose a risk to public health. Exposing the public to increased risk of catching a deadly disease especially when needing emergency healthcare is not simply allowing a business to do what it wants, it’s protecting public health, similar to those that just want to sell their dangerous chemicals and are subject to govt regulations. Someone posted a link earlier to the NYS healthcare case requiring hospital workers to be vaxxed so comparison seems reasonable
And of course the thing no one wants to talk about, natural immunities and antibodies that people that have been previously infected with covid carry. Why not widespread anti body testing as an additional choice for some of these folks? Why not more widespread testing to discover the amount of people that have actually had covid and what the actual infection/mortality rate are?
We focus too much on N America as well. Until the world has access to vaccination equally the spread will continue and new strains will emerge, whether its from trumpers, hippies, or someone living in remote parts of the globe.
I think that a large part of our current vaccination policy in america is political and certainly meant more to harm a certain segment of the political spectrum than it is to help the rest of us.
it wasn't "shut up and get vaccinated" until the last few months. don't you think nurses and doctors working covid wards the past 18 months are getting sick and tired of trying to convince people? they are exhausted. now they have people coming into ICU's and saying they wished they'd gotten the vaccine. How hard would it be to not be "that" nurse and say "well, we've been telling people like you for months, now open wide, dumbass."?
or the restaurant owner or waitress just wanting to get the fuck back to work, but nope, not yet, the unvaxxed "aren't yet convinced, hopefully you won't lose your home while we convince them".
you guys really can't see why so many people have had it?By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Havent looked for it, but also havent heard background on the israeli study itself. all the usual stuff, # people, what was looked at, how. how long did the study go on.has it been repeated to veify conclusion drawn by the israrlis or others, etc...._____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
might be thisHughFreakingDillon said:
previous infection plus vax is better protection than vax alone? I hadn't heard that. I'd be interested in a source.static111 said:
The only info I have seen so far is the study from israel that shows basically. unvaxxed is zero protection..Vaxxed is good protection, previous infection is good protection and previous infection plus vax is best protection...of course that is a simplification, but I am not going to qoute every article on it. I think that there really should be more research into natural immunities and the durability of natural immunities as it relates to the protection and durability of the vaccines.HughFreakingDillon said:
I'm actually curious as to your thoughts on my first paragraph.static111 said:
Absolutely I can, but I thought the OP wanted to have discussion with this thread and not looking down the nose in condescending tones statements. So I am trying to foster discussion. I also don't believe ostracizing people and taking away their livelihoods gets us out of the covid mess, especially with such low global vaccination numbers due largely to Big Pharma not sharing their toys.HughFreakingDillon said:
is there any data on viral load of breakthrough cases of those with natural immunity, or what kind of protection is actually afforded to those with natural immunity? maybe this is why it's not talked about. I recall it being theorized that natural immunity would be stronger than manufactured, but now I'm hearing data (note: HEARING, I don't pretend this is factual) that suggests natural immunity doesn't last long at all.nicknyr15 said:
Confused why no one talks about this as well. It’s just met with “shut up and get vaccinated”. Condescending tones don’t go far. People acting like super heroes because they got a vaccine is also annoying. There’s so much that turns the average person off to getting vaccinated but nobody wants to hear it.static111 said:
So why not mask mandates? Its not requiring people to get an "experimental vaccine" with "experimental" chemicals and also protects the public health. From a discussion perspective Delta is known to spread amongst vaccinated people, so wouldn't a mask mandate be safest?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Not sure what you are saying here as it relates to a discussion about people being unvaxxed?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Exactly, so why the need for a government mandate if we are concerned with businesses running themselves as they see fit?Halifax2TheMax said:
What happened to businesses being able to run their businesses as they see fit? Go work for an anti-vaxxer if you don’t want to be vaccinated and keep your job. Freedumbs aren’t just for the anti gay cake bakers.static111 said:
If one party starts pitching that they don't have to worry about losing their jobs and being ostracized due to vaccine status, do you think that may change?jerparker20 said:
All the anti-vax people I know don’t vote.static111 said:
About 50% of the unvaxxed I know are anything but Trumpers or mtg acolytes. However if the trend of vilifying them as if they are continues I would not be surprised if they go to the only group offering them open arms. But by all means let’s shame them and find out.brianlux said:joseph33 said:Just want to know how many of you there are,and why you choose not to be? It seems that this topic has been politicized,I believe in freedom of choice myself,just curious as to others thoughts.That sounds like a vaccination-as-politicized-topic statement. Yes?I don't think this will gain much traction either way. I will be surprised if you get many, if any, "Yeah, I'm unvaccinated" responses here. Maybe try the Marjorie Taylor Greene fan club site?Those that want to sell guns, toxic chemicals or whatever they see fit?Businesses are free to do what they want as long as they don’t pose a risk to public health. Exposing the public to increased risk of catching a deadly disease especially when needing emergency healthcare is not simply allowing a business to do what it wants, it’s protecting public health, similar to those that just want to sell their dangerous chemicals and are subject to govt regulations. Someone posted a link earlier to the NYS healthcare case requiring hospital workers to be vaxxed so comparison seems reasonable
And of course the thing no one wants to talk about, natural immunities and antibodies that people that have been previously infected with covid carry. Why not widespread anti body testing as an additional choice for some of these folks? Why not more widespread testing to discover the amount of people that have actually had covid and what the actual infection/mortality rate are?
We focus too much on N America as well. Until the world has access to vaccination equally the spread will continue and new strains will emerge, whether its from trumpers, hippies, or someone living in remote parts of the globe.
I think that a large part of our current vaccination policy in america is political and certainly meant more to harm a certain segment of the political spectrum than it is to help the rest of us.
it wasn't "shut up and get vaccinated" until the last few months. don't you think nurses and doctors working covid wards the past 18 months are getting sick and tired of trying to convince people? they are exhausted. now they have people coming into ICU's and saying they wished they'd gotten the vaccine. How hard would it be to not be "that" nurse and say "well, we've been telling people like you for months, now open wide, dumbass."?
or the restaurant owner or waitress just wanting to get the fuck back to work, but nope, not yet, the unvaxxed "aren't yet convinced, hopefully you won't lose your home while we convince them".
you guys really can't see why so many people have had it?
https://apnews.com/article/science-health-coronavirus-pandemic-ad52011f4ca1853fad6eee41a7310c2e
0 -
HughFreakingDillon said:
previous infection plus vax is better protection than vax alone? I hadn't heard that. I'd be interested in a source.static111 said:
The only info I have seen so far is the study from israel that shows basically. unvaxxed is zero protection..Vaxxed is good protection, previous infection is good protection and previous infection plus vax is best protection...of course that is a simplification, but I am not going to qoute every article on it. I think that there really should be more research into natural immunities and the durability of natural immunities as it relates to the protection and durability of the vaccines.HughFreakingDillon said:
I'm actually curious as to your thoughts on my first paragraph.static111 said:
Absolutely I can, but I thought the OP wanted to have discussion with this thread and not looking down the nose in condescending tones statements. So I am trying to foster discussion. I also don't believe ostracizing people and taking away their livelihoods gets us out of the covid mess, especially with such low global vaccination numbers due largely to Big Pharma not sharing their toys.HughFreakingDillon said:
is there any data on viral load of breakthrough cases of those with natural immunity, or what kind of protection is actually afforded to those with natural immunity? maybe this is why it's not talked about. I recall it being theorized that natural immunity would be stronger than manufactured, but now I'm hearing data (note: HEARING, I don't pretend this is factual) that suggests natural immunity doesn't last long at all.nicknyr15 said:
Confused why no one talks about this as well. It’s just met with “shut up and get vaccinated”. Condescending tones don’t go far. People acting like super heroes because they got a vaccine is also annoying. There’s so much that turns the average person off to getting vaccinated but nobody wants to hear it.static111 said:
So why not mask mandates? Its not requiring people to get an "experimental vaccine" with "experimental" chemicals and also protects the public health. From a discussion perspective Delta is known to spread amongst vaccinated people, so wouldn't a mask mandate be safest?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Not sure what you are saying here as it relates to a discussion about people being unvaxxed?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Exactly, so why the need for a government mandate if we are concerned with businesses running themselves as they see fit?Halifax2TheMax said:
What happened to businesses being able to run their businesses as they see fit? Go work for an anti-vaxxer if you don’t want to be vaccinated and keep your job. Freedumbs aren’t just for the anti gay cake bakers.static111 said:
If one party starts pitching that they don't have to worry about losing their jobs and being ostracized due to vaccine status, do you think that may change?jerparker20 said:
All the anti-vax people I know don’t vote.static111 said:
About 50% of the unvaxxed I know are anything but Trumpers or mtg acolytes. However if the trend of vilifying them as if they are continues I would not be surprised if they go to the only group offering them open arms. But by all means let’s shame them and find out.brianlux said:joseph33 said:Just want to know how many of you there are,and why you choose not to be? It seems that this topic has been politicized,I believe in freedom of choice myself,just curious as to others thoughts.That sounds like a vaccination-as-politicized-topic statement. Yes?I don't think this will gain much traction either way. I will be surprised if you get many, if any, "Yeah, I'm unvaccinated" responses here. Maybe try the Marjorie Taylor Greene fan club site?Those that want to sell guns, toxic chemicals or whatever they see fit?Businesses are free to do what they want as long as they don’t pose a risk to public health. Exposing the public to increased risk of catching a deadly disease especially when needing emergency healthcare is not simply allowing a business to do what it wants, it’s protecting public health, similar to those that just want to sell their dangerous chemicals and are subject to govt regulations. Someone posted a link earlier to the NYS healthcare case requiring hospital workers to be vaxxed so comparison seems reasonable
And of course the thing no one wants to talk about, natural immunities and antibodies that people that have been previously infected with covid carry. Why not widespread anti body testing as an additional choice for some of these folks? Why not more widespread testing to discover the amount of people that have actually had covid and what the actual infection/mortality rate are?
We focus too much on N America as well. Until the world has access to vaccination equally the spread will continue and new strains will emerge, whether its from trumpers, hippies, or someone living in remote parts of the globe.
I think that a large part of our current vaccination policy in america is political and certainly meant more to harm a certain segment of the political spectrum than it is to help the rest of us.
it wasn't "shut up and get vaccinated" until the last few months. don't you think nurses and doctors working covid wards the past 18 months are getting sick and tired of trying to convince people? they are exhausted. now they have people coming into ICU's and saying they wished they'd gotten the vaccine. How hard would it be to not be "that" nurse and say "well, we've been telling people like you for months, now open wide, dumbass."?
or the restaurant owner or waitress just wanting to get the fuck back to work, but nope, not yet, the unvaxxed "aren't yet convinced, hopefully you won't lose your home while we convince them".
you guys really can't see why so many people have had it?
https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital To my knowledge this hasn't been repeated yet. The findings look good and I would think that it would be reason for more research being done, but hey I am just a dumb welder.mickeyrat said:Havent looked for it, but also havent heard background on the israeli study itself. all the usual stuff, # people, what was looked at, how. how long did the study go on.has it been repeated to veify conclusion drawn by the israrlis or others, etc....
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
static111 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
previous infection plus vax is better protection than vax alone? I hadn't heard that. I'd be interested in a source.static111 said:
The only info I have seen so far is the study from israel that shows basically. unvaxxed is zero protection..Vaxxed is good protection, previous infection is good protection and previous infection plus vax is best protection...of course that is a simplification, but I am not going to qoute every article on it. I think that there really should be more research into natural immunities and the durability of natural immunities as it relates to the protection and durability of the vaccines.HughFreakingDillon said:
I'm actually curious as to your thoughts on my first paragraph.static111 said:
Absolutely I can, but I thought the OP wanted to have discussion with this thread and not looking down the nose in condescending tones statements. So I am trying to foster discussion. I also don't believe ostracizing people and taking away their livelihoods gets us out of the covid mess, especially with such low global vaccination numbers due largely to Big Pharma not sharing their toys.HughFreakingDillon said:
is there any data on viral load of breakthrough cases of those with natural immunity, or what kind of protection is actually afforded to those with natural immunity? maybe this is why it's not talked about. I recall it being theorized that natural immunity would be stronger than manufactured, but now I'm hearing data (note: HEARING, I don't pretend this is factual) that suggests natural immunity doesn't last long at all.nicknyr15 said:
Confused why no one talks about this as well. It’s just met with “shut up and get vaccinated”. Condescending tones don’t go far. People acting like super heroes because they got a vaccine is also annoying. There’s so much that turns the average person off to getting vaccinated but nobody wants to hear it.static111 said:
So why not mask mandates? Its not requiring people to get an "experimental vaccine" with "experimental" chemicals and also protects the public health. From a discussion perspective Delta is known to spread amongst vaccinated people, so wouldn't a mask mandate be safest?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Not sure what you are saying here as it relates to a discussion about people being unvaxxed?Lerxst1992 said:static111 said:
Exactly, so why the need for a government mandate if we are concerned with businesses running themselves as they see fit?Halifax2TheMax said:
What happened to businesses being able to run their businesses as they see fit? Go work for an anti-vaxxer if you don’t want to be vaccinated and keep your job. Freedumbs aren’t just for the anti gay cake bakers.static111 said:
If one party starts pitching that they don't have to worry about losing their jobs and being ostracized due to vaccine status, do you think that may change?jerparker20 said:
All the anti-vax people I know don’t vote.static111 said:
About 50% of the unvaxxed I know are anything but Trumpers or mtg acolytes. However if the trend of vilifying them as if they are continues I would not be surprised if they go to the only group offering them open arms. But by all means let’s shame them and find out.brianlux said:joseph33 said:Just want to know how many of you there are,and why you choose not to be? It seems that this topic has been politicized,I believe in freedom of choice myself,just curious as to others thoughts.That sounds like a vaccination-as-politicized-topic statement. Yes?I don't think this will gain much traction either way. I will be surprised if you get many, if any, "Yeah, I'm unvaccinated" responses here. Maybe try the Marjorie Taylor Greene fan club site?Those that want to sell guns, toxic chemicals or whatever they see fit?Businesses are free to do what they want as long as they don’t pose a risk to public health. Exposing the public to increased risk of catching a deadly disease especially when needing emergency healthcare is not simply allowing a business to do what it wants, it’s protecting public health, similar to those that just want to sell their dangerous chemicals and are subject to govt regulations. Someone posted a link earlier to the NYS healthcare case requiring hospital workers to be vaxxed so comparison seems reasonable
And of course the thing no one wants to talk about, natural immunities and antibodies that people that have been previously infected with covid carry. Why not widespread anti body testing as an additional choice for some of these folks? Why not more widespread testing to discover the amount of people that have actually had covid and what the actual infection/mortality rate are?
We focus too much on N America as well. Until the world has access to vaccination equally the spread will continue and new strains will emerge, whether its from trumpers, hippies, or someone living in remote parts of the globe.
I think that a large part of our current vaccination policy in america is political and certainly meant more to harm a certain segment of the political spectrum than it is to help the rest of us.
it wasn't "shut up and get vaccinated" until the last few months. don't you think nurses and doctors working covid wards the past 18 months are getting sick and tired of trying to convince people? they are exhausted. now they have people coming into ICU's and saying they wished they'd gotten the vaccine. How hard would it be to not be "that" nurse and say "well, we've been telling people like you for months, now open wide, dumbass."?
or the restaurant owner or waitress just wanting to get the fuck back to work, but nope, not yet, the unvaxxed "aren't yet convinced, hopefully you won't lose your home while we convince them".
you guys really can't see why so many people have had it?
https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital To my knowledge this hasn't been repeated yet. The findings look good and I would think that it would be reason for more research being done, but hey I am just a dumb welder.mickeyrat said:Havent looked for it, but also havent heard background on the israeli study itself. all the usual stuff, # people, what was looked at, how. how long did the study go on.has it been repeated to veify conclusion drawn by the israrlis or others, etc....
dumb trucker here...
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Nussenzweig’s group has published data showing people who recover from a SARS-CoV-2 infection continue to develop increasing numbers and types of coronavirus-targeting antibodies for up to 1 year. By contrast, he says, twice-vaccinated people stop seeing increases “in the potency or breadth of the overall memory antibody compartment” a few months after their second dose.
this is part of what concerns me the most. I was double vaxxed as of early July. so that means I might be back to square one relatively soon. blargh.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Don't get vaccinated, take a chance and maybe you'll be "better off."
• “Vaccinated people are not as likely to spread the coronavirus as the unvaccinated. Even in the United States, where more than half of the population is fully vaccinated, the unvaccinated are responsible for the overwhelming majority of transmission… This is borne out by recent data from New York City that show that more than 96 percent of cases are among the unvaccinated. Only 0.33 percent of fully vaccinated New Yorkers have been diagnosed with COVID-19.” Craig Spencer, emergency medicine physician and director of global health in emergency medicine at New York Presbyterian/Columbia University Medical Center.
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