Afghanistan

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,217
    Good ole CNN. It's a friendly "death to America" chant, guys. 



    Brings back memories of this...



    As for the reporter, Chelsea Ward (who I must say, is pretty brave to be reporting from there), here's a picture of her reporting the day before the Taliban takeover, versus the day of the takeover. Speaks volumes of what's likely ahead for Afghan women. Even though the operation (westernizing Afghanistan) was a failure, at least those women enjoyed a modicum of human rights during the past 20 years. That's going to end. Pretty sad. 



    This is an edited clip that has been passed around right wing sites.  Even Hot Air, a right wing website defended her saying this was manipulation.  Please read this. https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/08/16/cnn-reporter-in-kabul-these-taliban-fighters-are-chanting-death-to-america-but-they-seem-friendly-n409181
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,217

    Watch the full segment below and you’ll see that she’s not whitewashing the Taliban. She makes a point of showing how one group of them forced her to “stand aside” because she’s female. She tells the anchors that fewer women are on the streets of Kabul today and that those who are out and about are wearing burqas, obvious evidence of fear of the new government. She’s unsparing about the chaos unleashed by Biden’s terrible withdrawal plans too, noting that there’s no plan in place to evacuate American allies trapped in the city and that U.S. troops are barely able to keep order at the airport. Even her line about the Taliban seeming “friendly” while they chant “death to America” is qualified by her noting that it’s “bizarre.”

    Which it is. She’s not making up the “friendly” bit. You can see for yourself on the footage that they’re tolerating her presence and willing to give interviews. Maybe it’s giddiness at their moment of triumph or maybe they view her and her camera as a useful conduit to address American audiences, but they’re not overtly hostile to her. The fact that she’s able to report from the street — for now — without being threatened is proof enough.

  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,180
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,217
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    She said “it’s bizarre”.  So I don’t understand why you’re taking a shot at CNN. No offense, but it looks like you got manipulated by right wing Twitter.

    Btw, my understanding is that Death to America isn’t literal in the Middle East.  It would be the equivalent of us chanting Down with the Soviet Union.  That didn’t mean we wanted to murder every Russian.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 33,233
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    this was something my wife asked me after watching the biden speech. it's a good question. i mean, if they were confident in their training, why turn tail and run?
    I think I'll move to Australia


  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,217
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    this was something my wife asked me after watching the biden speech. it's a good question. i mean, if they were confident in their training, why turn tail and run?
    If they wanted to fight but they were poorly trained they would have fought,  poorly.  They didn't.  As it stands,  you can now get an American rifle cheap. Never shot,  dropped once.  

    This is an intelligence failure. 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 33,233
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    this was something my wife asked me after watching the biden speech. it's a good question. i mean, if they were confident in their training, why turn tail and run?
    If they wanted to fight but they were poorly trained they would have fought,  poorly.  They didn't.  As it stands,  you can now get an American rifle cheap. Never shot,  dropped once.  

    This is an intelligence failure. 
    I don't think it's that simple. if you know you are going to die, you generally don't fight. if you are confident you can win and survive, you do. I don't think it comes down to simple "want" or "don't want". 
    I think I'll move to Australia


  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,180
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    She said “it’s bizarre”.  So I don’t understand why you’re taking a shot at CNN. No offense, but it looks like you got manipulated by right wing Twitter.

    Btw, my understanding is that Death to America isn’t literal in the Middle East.  It would be the equivalent of us chanting Down with the Soviet Union.  That didn’t mean we wanted to murder every Russian.
    Oh please with the right-wing Twitter manipulation bullshit. On Twitter, I saw “death to America” trending, clicked the trend, and the first thing I saw was the chant and her response. And yes, it reminded me of the “fiery but peaceful protest. But not in a political way, though I think that’s how you’re taking it. I do think that that the “fiery but peaceful” thing is political and has an agenda, like “We’re covering for rioters.” But here, no. I’m not like “See? CNN are praising the terrorists! They’re friendly she said!” No. Just as when I see a guy standing in front of a “fiery but peaceful protest” graphic, when I hear a death chant and someone says “they’re friendly,” I laugh at the absurdity.
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,217
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    this was something my wife asked me after watching the biden speech. it's a good question. i mean, if they were confident in their training, why turn tail and run?
    If they wanted to fight but they were poorly trained they would have fought,  poorly.  They didn't.  As it stands,  you can now get an American rifle cheap. Never shot,  dropped once.  

    This is an intelligence failure. 
    I don't think it's that simple. if you know you are going to die, you generally don't fight. if you are confident you can win and survive, you do. I don't think it comes down to simple "want" or "don't want". 
    There's nothing I saw that said the Taliban greatly outnumbered or out gunned the military.  What I read in the Post is that there were massive bribes from the leaders on down to melt away.  That's an intelligence failure.  Was there even one battle??
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,217
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    She said “it’s bizarre”.  So I don’t understand why you’re taking a shot at CNN. No offense, but it looks like you got manipulated by right wing Twitter.

    Btw, my understanding is that Death to America isn’t literal in the Middle East.  It would be the equivalent of us chanting Down with the Soviet Union.  That didn’t mean we wanted to murder every Russian.
    Oh please with the right-wing Twitter manipulation bullshit. On Twitter, I saw “death to America” trending, clicked the trend, and the first thing I saw was the chant and her response. And yes, it reminded me of the “fiery but peaceful protest. But not in a political way, though I think that’s how you’re taking it. I do think that that the “fiery but peaceful” thing is political and has an agenda, like “We’re covering for rioters.” But here, no. I’m not like “See? CNN are praising the terrorists! They’re friendly she said!” No. Just as when I see a guy standing in front of a “fiery but peaceful protest” graphic, when I hear a death chant and someone says “they’re friendly,” I laugh at the absurdity.
    So posting it, posting the riots from the summer ans saying “good ole cnn” was you NOT drawing comparisons?  I must have imagined it.
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 9,903
    I wonder if the Taliban is addressing people by thier proper pronouns??  Some of y’all amaze me still defending the mush brain in office now…. But ya know…Merica…..
    Speaking of pronouns, maybe you could help me out here. You used to post here as muskydan, got banned and now post as Lindamarie73, which pronoun is the proper one? Should I call you sir or ma'am? Did you transition? Or is it the Wifey's account? 

    Edit- I don't think sir and ma'am are technically pronouns, but I think you get the point. 
    Whoa "she's" muskydan the racist homophobic xenophobic cop from Chicago?



  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 26,800
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    this was something my wife asked me after watching the biden speech. it's a good question. i mean, if they were confident in their training, why turn tail and run?
    If they wanted to fight but they were poorly trained they would have fought,  poorly.  They didn't.  As it stands,  you can now get an American rifle cheap. Never shot,  dropped once.  

    This is an intelligence failure. 

    arrogance  on our part.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 33,233
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    this was something my wife asked me after watching the biden speech. it's a good question. i mean, if they were confident in their training, why turn tail and run?
    If they wanted to fight but they were poorly trained they would have fought,  poorly.  They didn't.  As it stands,  you can now get an American rifle cheap. Never shot,  dropped once.  

    This is an intelligence failure. 
    I don't think it's that simple. if you know you are going to die, you generally don't fight. if you are confident you can win and survive, you do. I don't think it comes down to simple "want" or "don't want". 
    There's nothing I saw that said the Taliban greatly outnumbered or out gunned the military.  What I read in the Post is that there were massive bribes from the leaders on down to melt away.  That's an intelligence failure.  Was there even one battle??
    your first sentence is confusing, since I never said anything about numbers. 

    I hadn't read about the bribes. Interesting. 

    Not that I'm aware of.  
    I think I'll move to Australia


  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,217
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    this was something my wife asked me after watching the biden speech. it's a good question. i mean, if they were confident in their training, why turn tail and run?
    If they wanted to fight but they were poorly trained they would have fought,  poorly.  They didn't.  As it stands,  you can now get an American rifle cheap. Never shot,  dropped once.  

    This is an intelligence failure. 
    I don't think it's that simple. if you know you are going to die, you generally don't fight. if you are confident you can win and survive, you do. I don't think it comes down to simple "want" or "don't want". 
    There's nothing I saw that said the Taliban greatly outnumbered or out gunned the military.  What I read in the Post is that there were massive bribes from the leaders on down to melt away.  That's an intelligence failure.  Was there even one battle??
    your first sentence is confusing, since I never said anything about numbers. 

    I hadn't read about the bribes. Interesting. 

    Not that I'm aware of.  
    The point I was making is why would the soldier know he was going to die if they had equal or superior numbers to the Taliban? And I don’t think there was a real battle either.  The military and political leaders literally just abdicated without a fight.  The article about the bribes was in the post.  I’ll see if nbc reposted it.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,217
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    this was something my wife asked me after watching the biden speech. it's a good question. i mean, if they were confident in their training, why turn tail and run?
    If they wanted to fight but they were poorly trained they would have fought,  poorly.  They didn't.  As it stands,  you can now get an American rifle cheap. Never shot,  dropped once.  

    This is an intelligence failure. 
    I don't think it's that simple. if you know you are going to die, you generally don't fight. if you are confident you can win and survive, you do. I don't think it comes down to simple "want" or "don't want". 
    There's nothing I saw that said the Taliban greatly outnumbered or out gunned the military.  What I read in the Post is that there were massive bribes from the leaders on down to melt away.  That's an intelligence failure.  Was there even one battle??
    your first sentence is confusing, since I never said anything about numbers. 

    I hadn't read about the bribes. Interesting. 

    Not that I'm aware of.  
    No paywall, reprinted from the post. https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/aug/16/bribery-detailed-in-afghans-fall/
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,180
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    She said “it’s bizarre”.  So I don’t understand why you’re taking a shot at CNN. No offense, but it looks like you got manipulated by right wing Twitter.

    Btw, my understanding is that Death to America isn’t literal in the Middle East.  It would be the equivalent of us chanting Down with the Soviet Union.  That didn’t mean we wanted to murder every Russian.
    Oh please with the right-wing Twitter manipulation bullshit. On Twitter, I saw “death to America” trending, clicked the trend, and the first thing I saw was the chant and her response. And yes, it reminded me of the “fiery but peaceful protest. But not in a political way, though I think that’s how you’re taking it. I do think that that the “fiery but peaceful” thing is political and has an agenda, like “We’re covering for rioters.” But here, no. I’m not like “See? CNN are praising the terrorists! They’re friendly she said!” No. Just as when I see a guy standing in front of a “fiery but peaceful protest” graphic, when I hear a death chant and someone says “they’re friendly,” I laugh at the absurdity.
    So posting it, posting the riots from the summer ans saying “good ole cnn” was you NOT drawing comparisons?  I must have imagined it.
    More like “another dumb quote/headline” from CNN. “Cuomo with the giant cotton swab” for his brother sort of stuff. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 33,233
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    this was something my wife asked me after watching the biden speech. it's a good question. i mean, if they were confident in their training, why turn tail and run?
    If they wanted to fight but they were poorly trained they would have fought,  poorly.  They didn't.  As it stands,  you can now get an American rifle cheap. Never shot,  dropped once.  

    This is an intelligence failure. 
    I don't think it's that simple. if you know you are going to die, you generally don't fight. if you are confident you can win and survive, you do. I don't think it comes down to simple "want" or "don't want". 
    There's nothing I saw that said the Taliban greatly outnumbered or out gunned the military.  What I read in the Post is that there were massive bribes from the leaders on down to melt away.  That's an intelligence failure.  Was there even one battle??
    your first sentence is confusing, since I never said anything about numbers. 

    I hadn't read about the bribes. Interesting. 

    Not that I'm aware of.  
    The point I was making is why would the soldier know he was going to die if they had equal or superior numbers to the Taliban? And I don’t think there was a real battle either.  The military and political leaders literally just abdicated without a fight.  The article about the bribes was in the post.  I’ll see if nbc reposted it.
    because of sub-par training, not numbers, which I specifically bolded from Ledbetterman's post, and also commented myself, when I responded to him. 
    I think I'll move to Australia


  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 26,786
    edited August 2021
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    this was something my wife asked me after watching the biden speech. it's a good question. i mean, if they were confident in their training, why turn tail and run?
    If they wanted to fight but they were poorly trained they would have fought,  poorly.  They didn't.  As it stands,  you can now get an American rifle cheap. Never shot,  dropped once.  

    This is an intelligence failure. 
    I don't think it's that simple. if you know you are going to die, you generally don't fight. if you are confident you can win and survive, you do. I don't think it comes down to simple "want" or "don't want". 
    There's nothing I saw that said the Taliban greatly outnumbered or out gunned the military.  What I read in the Post is that there were massive bribes from the leaders on down to melt away.  That's an intelligence failure.  Was there even one battle??
    your first sentence is confusing, since I never said anything about numbers. 

    I hadn't read about the bribes. Interesting. 

    Not that I'm aware of.  
    The point I was making is why would the soldier know he was going to die if they had equal or superior numbers to the Taliban? And I don’t think there was a real battle either.  The military and political leaders literally just abdicated without a fight.  The article about the bribes was in the post.  I’ll see if nbc reposted it.
    because of sub-par training, not numbers, which I specifically bolded from Ledbetterman's post, and also commented myself, when I responded to him. 
    How do you figure it was sub-par training?  From what I've read the downfall seems to be from corruption and a lack of fight from the Afghans as soon as Trump made the deal with the Taliban. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,217
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    this was something my wife asked me after watching the biden speech. it's a good question. i mean, if they were confident in their training, why turn tail and run?
    If they wanted to fight but they were poorly trained they would have fought,  poorly.  They didn't.  As it stands,  you can now get an American rifle cheap. Never shot,  dropped once.  

    This is an intelligence failure. 
    I don't think it's that simple. if you know you are going to die, you generally don't fight. if you are confident you can win and survive, you do. I don't think it comes down to simple "want" or "don't want". 
    There's nothing I saw that said the Taliban greatly outnumbered or out gunned the military.  What I read in the Post is that there were massive bribes from the leaders on down to melt away.  That's an intelligence failure.  Was there even one battle??
    your first sentence is confusing, since I never said anything about numbers. 

    I hadn't read about the bribes. Interesting. 

    Not that I'm aware of.  
    The point I was making is why would the soldier know he was going to die if they had equal or superior numbers to the Taliban? And I don’t think there was a real battle either.  The military and political leaders literally just abdicated without a fight.  The article about the bribes was in the post.  I’ll see if nbc reposted it.
    because of sub-par training, not numbers, which I specifically bolded from Ledbetterman's post, and also commented myself, when I responded to him. 
    How do you figure it was sub-par training?  From what I've read the downfall seems to be from corruption and a lack of fight from the Afghans as soon as Trump made the deal with the Taliban. 
    Yes,  all the evidence points towards this,  not a training issue. The same people trained these soldiers as our soldiers.  
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 26,786
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    this was something my wife asked me after watching the biden speech. it's a good question. i mean, if they were confident in their training, why turn tail and run?
    If they wanted to fight but they were poorly trained they would have fought,  poorly.  They didn't.  As it stands,  you can now get an American rifle cheap. Never shot,  dropped once.  

    This is an intelligence failure. 
    I don't think it's that simple. if you know you are going to die, you generally don't fight. if you are confident you can win and survive, you do. I don't think it comes down to simple "want" or "don't want". 
    There's nothing I saw that said the Taliban greatly outnumbered or out gunned the military.  What I read in the Post is that there were massive bribes from the leaders on down to melt away.  That's an intelligence failure.  Was there even one battle??
    your first sentence is confusing, since I never said anything about numbers. 

    I hadn't read about the bribes. Interesting. 

    Not that I'm aware of.  
    The point I was making is why would the soldier know he was going to die if they had equal or superior numbers to the Taliban? And I don’t think there was a real battle either.  The military and political leaders literally just abdicated without a fight.  The article about the bribes was in the post.  I’ll see if nbc reposted it.
    because of sub-par training, not numbers, which I specifically bolded from Ledbetterman's post, and also commented myself, when I responded to him. 
    How do you figure it was sub-par training?  From what I've read the downfall seems to be from corruption and a lack of fight from the Afghans as soon as Trump made the deal with the Taliban. 
    Yes,  all the evidence points towards this,  not a training issue. The same people trained these soldiers as our soldiers.  
    It's crazy. I'm also reading that the resupply lines were abysmal once America left, soldiers had no food and barely any ammo.  I mean you had twenty years to figure out logistics.  How the hell you supposed to fight the Taliban on no food or ammo?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 33,233
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    this was something my wife asked me after watching the biden speech. it's a good question. i mean, if they were confident in their training, why turn tail and run?
    If they wanted to fight but they were poorly trained they would have fought,  poorly.  They didn't.  As it stands,  you can now get an American rifle cheap. Never shot,  dropped once.  

    This is an intelligence failure. 
    I don't think it's that simple. if you know you are going to die, you generally don't fight. if you are confident you can win and survive, you do. I don't think it comes down to simple "want" or "don't want". 
    There's nothing I saw that said the Taliban greatly outnumbered or out gunned the military.  What I read in the Post is that there were massive bribes from the leaders on down to melt away.  That's an intelligence failure.  Was there even one battle??
    your first sentence is confusing, since I never said anything about numbers. 

    I hadn't read about the bribes. Interesting. 

    Not that I'm aware of.  
    The point I was making is why would the soldier know he was going to die if they had equal or superior numbers to the Taliban? And I don’t think there was a real battle either.  The military and political leaders literally just abdicated without a fight.  The article about the bribes was in the post.  I’ll see if nbc reposted it.
    because of sub-par training, not numbers, which I specifically bolded from Ledbetterman's post, and also commented myself, when I responded to him. 
    How do you figure it was sub-par training?  From what I've read the downfall seems to be from corruption and a lack of fight from the Afghans as soon as Trump made the deal with the Taliban. 
    come on guys. it was a theory my wife and i had. nothing more. 
    I think I'll move to Australia


  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 26,800
    edited August 2021
     I have authorized 6,000 U.S. troops to deploy to Afghanistan to assist in the departure of U.S. and Allied civilian personnel from Afghanistan — and to evacuate our Afghan allies and vulnerable Afghans to safety outside the country.

    Our current military mission will be short in time and focused in its objectives:
     
    Get our people and our allies to safety as quickly as possible.  
     
    And once we have completed this mission, we will conclude our military withdrawal. We will end America’s longest war.

    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,217
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    this was something my wife asked me after watching the biden speech. it's a good question. i mean, if they were confident in their training, why turn tail and run?
    If they wanted to fight but they were poorly trained they would have fought,  poorly.  They didn't.  As it stands,  you can now get an American rifle cheap. Never shot,  dropped once.  

    This is an intelligence failure. 
    I don't think it's that simple. if you know you are going to die, you generally don't fight. if you are confident you can win and survive, you do. I don't think it comes down to simple "want" or "don't want". 
    There's nothing I saw that said the Taliban greatly outnumbered or out gunned the military.  What I read in the Post is that there were massive bribes from the leaders on down to melt away.  That's an intelligence failure.  Was there even one battle??
    your first sentence is confusing, since I never said anything about numbers. 

    I hadn't read about the bribes. Interesting. 

    Not that I'm aware of.  
    The point I was making is why would the soldier know he was going to die if they had equal or superior numbers to the Taliban? And I don’t think there was a real battle either.  The military and political leaders literally just abdicated without a fight.  The article about the bribes was in the post.  I’ll see if nbc reposted it.
    because of sub-par training, not numbers, which I specifically bolded from Ledbetterman's post, and also commented myself, when I responded to him. 
    How do you figure it was sub-par training?  From what I've read the downfall seems to be from corruption and a lack of fight from the Afghans as soon as Trump made the deal with the Taliban. 
    come on guys. it was a theory my wife and i had. nothing more. 
    Ok sorry. Didn't mean to beat a dead horse. 
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 15,668
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    She said “it’s bizarre”.  So I don’t understand why you’re taking a shot at CNN. No offense, but it looks like you got manipulated by right wing Twitter.

    Btw, my understanding is that Death to America isn’t literal in the Middle East.  It would be the equivalent of us chanting Down with the Soviet Union.  That didn’t mean we wanted to murder every Russian.
    I heard this on the radio as it happened…I think anyhow. They were commenting on how it’s crazy that they are acting friendly yet chanting death to America. It was the juxtaposition.  People are really gullible 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 7,586
    tbergs said:
    Jesus that video of people falling off that plane is insane.  Not sure how they thought it would actually work but very sad regardless.
    Sad indeed and horrible for all involved who are just puppets in this game of war; the citizens left behind who are now fucked, the pilots who had to just take off no matter what and now have to live with what happened and the military personnel in general who now can truly see how worthless the last 20 years will end up being. The only bright spot are the people who were able to get out or do something during that time before it all went to shit again. War never resolves a problem. 
    Thought the same. Instantly reminded me of the people who jumped on 9/11. My guess is this was suicide, they'd rather die than be left to deal with what's coming. They had to know there was precisely a 0.0% chance of successfully hanging on during a flight like that. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 7,586
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Yeah I get it. In a place where you can get beheaded, being allowed to do your job without incident is friendly. But it’s still funny rhetoric when there’s a death chant going on. It’s like the “die” chant in Creeping Death and James Hetfield yelling “Come on friends!” during it. 

    She’ll be fine (hopefully), but it sucks for the women and girls that actually live there. I wonder who’s really to blame for the Afghan military’s failure. Biden was putting blame on them today, understandably, but I wonder how good of a job our military (military leaders and strategists, not soldiers) did in training them. 
    She said “it’s bizarre”.  So I don’t understand why you’re taking a shot at CNN. No offense, but it looks like you got manipulated by right wing Twitter.

    Btw, my understanding is that Death to America isn’t literal in the Middle East.  It would be the equivalent of us chanting Down with the Soviet Union.  That didn’t mean we wanted to murder every Russian.
    Oh please with the right-wing Twitter manipulation bullshit. On Twitter, I saw “death to America” trending, clicked the trend, and the first thing I saw was the chant and her response. And yes, it reminded me of the “fiery but peaceful protest. But not in a political way, though I think that’s how you’re taking it. I do think that that the “fiery but peaceful” thing is political and has an agenda, like “We’re covering for rioters.” But here, no. I’m not like “See? CNN are praising the terrorists! They’re friendly she said!” No. Just as when I see a guy standing in front of a “fiery but peaceful protest” graphic, when I hear a death chant and someone says “they’re friendly,” I laugh at the absurdity.
    So posting it, posting the riots from the summer ans saying “good ole cnn” was you NOT drawing comparisons?  I must have imagined it.
    More like “another dumb quote/headline” from CNN. “Cuomo with the giant cotton swab” for his brother sort of stuff. 
    I didn't see anything wrong with the headline.
    My take on watching the video before reading all these comments was just that she was implying its bizarre in that if it wasn't being translated and you didn't know what was actually being said, you'd think they're just selling some bootleg DVD's and not chanting a violent death chant. And I would agree with that. She wasn't saying they are peaceful, but that their behavior doesn't match their chant.  It'd be like if the capitol rioters were chanting "death to to the Senate" to the tune of "Its A Small World."
  • Russia believes taliban will restore order. Direct  quote.
    Holy mother of god. What world do we live in. 
    brixton 93
    astoria 06
    albany 06
    hartford 06
    reading 06
    barcelona 06
    paris 06
    wembley 07
    dusseldorf 07
    nijmegen 07

    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    There was never a chance to restore order.  Afghanistan has always been a clusterfuck…

    Biden is right…if the Afghan cowards won’t fight for their own country, then why should the US commit troops to help them…

    it’s time to get all those who helped NATO countries out…


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 26,800
    mickeyrat said:
     I have authorized 6,000 U.S. troops to deploy to Afghanistan to assist in the departure of U.S. and Allied civilian personnel from Afghanistan — and to evacuate our Afghan allies and vulnerable Afghans to safety outside the country.

    Our current military mission will be short in time and focused in its objectives:
     
    Get our people and our allies to safety as quickly as possible.  
     
    And once we have completed this mission, we will conclude our military withdrawal. We will end America’s longest war.


    statement Biden made 8-16
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,363
    IN today's Letter, Heather said:
    "But none of them is about partisan politics, either; they are about defining our national interest."

    But then goes on to imply that it is partisan by, though not stated, she seems to be talking about Republicans here:

    "It strikes me that some of the same people currently expressing concern over the fate of Afghanistan’s women and girls work quite happily with Saudi Arabia, which has its own repressive government, and have voted against reauthorizing our own Violence Against Women Act. Some of the same people worrying about the slowness of our evacuation of our Afghan allies voted just last month against providing more visas for them, and others seemed to worry very little about our utter abandonment of our Kurdish allies when we withdrew from northern Syria in 2019. And those worrying about democracy in Afghanistan seem to be largely unconcerned about protecting voting rights here at home. 

    Most notably to me, some of the same people who are now focusing on keeping troops in Afghanistan to protect Americans seem uninterested in stopping the spread of a disease that has already killed more than 620,000 of us and that is, once again, raging. "


    But I've also read that many Democrats are criticizing Biden for pulling troops out of Afghanistan (his reasoning seems sensible to me), so isn't Heather contradicting herself a bit here?


    God, what a mess!



    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











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