Afghanistan

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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 43,058
    So Biden follows through Tumps plan to pull out and now he gets blasted for it?  I'm sure Trump would have been killed for this too.  

    Everyone as American tax payers should be angry that we spent 20 years there and didn't make a friggin dent.
    Lol...a month ago Trump was saying he should be the one getting credit for leaving so quickly then the other day he was saying Biden should resign in disgrace. What a piece of shit. 

    I am conflicted. I would've been fine leaving the troops there. We have troops all over the world and the amount we had there is significantly less than many other countries. On the other hand, I am happy to see them come home after twenty years but would've been much happier if the process wasn't so sloppy. I just don't know. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,035
    Starting to get a better sense of how the Taliban was able to take over the country without any resistance from an Afghan army that Biden said last week "have 300,000 troops and are as well-equipped as any army in the world." 


    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 33,313
    So Biden follows through Tumps plan to pull out and now he gets blasted for it?  I'm sure Trump would have been killed for this too.  

    Everyone as American tax payers should be angry that we spent 20 years there and didn't make a friggin dent.
    Lol...a month ago Trump was saying he should be the one getting credit for leaving so quickly then the other day he was saying Biden should resign in disgrace. What a piece of shit. 

    I am conflicted. I would've been fine leaving the troops there. We have troops all over the world and the amount we had there is significantly less than many other countries. On the other hand, I am happy to see them come home after twenty years but would've been much happier if the process wasn't so sloppy. I just don't know. 
    I liked the idea of leaving but it doesn't do any good if we want to try and change that way of life over there.

    Western ways of living aren't what they want. maybe we should just let them do what they want, how they want and instead of forcing our policy on them see if we could be friends with them?

    That last part may be naïve but you have to wonder? 
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 7,234
    Blaming Biden for this mess is fucking pathetic. 
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 26,710
    Not funny but funny. 


    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    So Biden follows through Tumps plan to pull out and now he gets blasted for it?  I'm sure Trump would have been killed for this too.  

    Everyone as American tax payers should be angry that we spent 20 years there and didn't make a friggin dent.
    Even worse, we've basically paid for the Taliban's military bases, armored cars, weapons, etc. that have bee left behind. I can't imagine how much money it takes to construct a military base, but those constructed for the so-called Afghan military are now the property of the Taliban. 
    Your government knows where these bases are…the us airforce could and should be vaporizing them…same as all NATO countries vacated embassies…
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    Starting to get a better sense of how the Taliban was able to take over the country without any resistance from an Afghan army that Biden said last week "have 300,000 troops and are as well-equipped as any army in the world." 


    Lol
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,035
    Blaming Biden for this mess is fucking pathetic. 
    Well he did say just last week, when asked if a Taliban takeover was imminent, that it wouldn't happen because the Afghan army "has 300,000 troops and are as well-equipped as any army in the world." Well it did happen, without any resistance. And he also said that the withdrawal would be nothing like Saigon at the end of Vietnam, but it very much has been (maybe worse); an emergency evacuation of the U.S. embassy. Chaos at the airport, including Afghan's clinging to a airplane as it takes off. 

    As far as the entire clusterfuck of this war goes, the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations all share in some blame, as do both political parties. But execution of the withdrawal, that's on the current administration. Frankly, for those of you that love Biden, it's not really something to be concerned with, or to be overly defensive of him for. This war has been 20 years of bad decisions by everyone else, what's wrong with a couple more bad decisions at the end by him?
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 26,710
    I think the jury is still out on if the Kabul evacuation will look like the fall of Saigon.  We still have time to turn this around and get people out.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,035
    mcgruff10 said:
    I think the jury is still out on if the Kabul evacuation will look like the fall of Saigon.  We still have time to turn this around and get people out.  
    That’s fair. But the optics are comparable so far. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 43,058
    Seems like there was little to no bloodshed. What was the casualty situation in Saigon?

    Politically for Biden---he was stupid for making those comments last week and optics of such a quick reclamation by the Taliban do not look good at all. But the overwhelming majority of Americans wanted this to be over asap so I don't think it will have lasting damage. It's not like people immediately think about Gerald Ford when someone mentions the end of Vietnam. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 43,058
    mcgruff10 said:
    Not funny but funny. 


    hahahaha
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,035
    Seems like there was little to no bloodshed. What was the casualty situation in Saigon?

    Politically for Biden---he was stupid for making those comments last week and optics of such a quick reclamation by the Taliban do not look good at all. But the overwhelming majority of Americans wanted this to be over asap so I don't think it will have lasting damage. It's not like people immediately think about Gerald Ford when someone mentions the end of Vietnam. 
    Two U.S. Marines in Saigon....killed by a rocket. Five deaths at the Kabul airport. 

    The no-bloodshed thing is another thing that makes it comparable. The Taliban (or back then, the North Vietnamese) marching in, basically saying "leave or there will be bloodshed," and the U.S. scrambling to leave. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 43,058
    Seems like there was little to no bloodshed. What was the casualty situation in Saigon?

    Politically for Biden---he was stupid for making those comments last week and optics of such a quick reclamation by the Taliban do not look good at all. But the overwhelming majority of Americans wanted this to be over asap so I don't think it will have lasting damage. It's not like people immediately think about Gerald Ford when someone mentions the end of Vietnam. 
    Two U.S. Marines in Saigon....killed by a rocket. Five deaths at the Kabul airport. 

    The no-bloodshed thing is another thing that makes it comparable. The Taliban (or back then, the North Vietnamese) marching in, basically saying "leave or there will be bloodshed," and the U.S. scrambling to leave. 
    Yeah...I guess. No US casualties this time around helps. The image of the plane taking off the those people chasing after was certainly heartbreaking though.

    But again...politically, I don't get a sense that people blame Gerald Ford for Vietnam though. When I think of Vietnam I think of Nixon and LBJ primarily. People were more than fed up with that war by that point. I think this is similar in that respect. 


    I was reading earlier they hope to have close to 30,000 evacuated by the end of the month? If that goes smoothly, could help change the current perception. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • I just  read  some of the "laws" and what  they  do to women. Im fuckin  angry.  
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    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,035
    edited August 2021
    Seems like there was little to no bloodshed. What was the casualty situation in Saigon?

    Politically for Biden---he was stupid for making those comments last week and optics of such a quick reclamation by the Taliban do not look good at all. But the overwhelming majority of Americans wanted this to be over asap so I don't think it will have lasting damage. It's not like people immediately think about Gerald Ford when someone mentions the end of Vietnam. 
    Two U.S. Marines in Saigon....killed by a rocket. Five deaths at the Kabul airport. 

    The no-bloodshed thing is another thing that makes it comparable. The Taliban (or back then, the North Vietnamese) marching in, basically saying "leave or there will be bloodshed," and the U.S. scrambling to leave. 
    Yeah...I guess. No US casualties this time around helps. The image of the plane taking off the those people chasing after was certainly heartbreaking though.

    But again...politically, I don't get a sense that people blame Gerald Ford for Vietnam though. When I think of Vietnam I think of Nixon and LBJ primarily. People were more than fed up with that war by that point. I think this is similar in that respect. 


    I was reading earlier they hope to have close to 30,000 evacuated by the end of the month? If that goes smoothly, could help change the current perception. 
    Oh yeah when the smoke clears, all the blame for the war as a whole will fall on Bush and Cheney. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 33,313
    mcgruff10 said:
    Not funny but funny. 


    That man is brilliant.
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 7,234
    Blaming Biden for this mess is fucking pathetic. 
    Well he did say just last week, when asked if a Taliban takeover was imminent, that it wouldn't happen because the Afghan army "has 300,000 troops and are as well-equipped as any army in the world." Well it did happen, without any resistance. And he also said that the withdrawal would be nothing like Saigon at the end of Vietnam, but it very much has been (maybe worse); an emergency evacuation of the U.S. embassy. Chaos at the airport, including Afghan's clinging to a airplane as it takes off. 

    As far as the entire clusterfuck of this war goes, the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations all share in some blame, as do both political parties. But execution of the withdrawal, that's on the current administration. Frankly, for those of you that love Biden, it's not really something to be concerned with, or to be overly defensive of him for. This war has been 20 years of bad decisions by everyone else, what's wrong with a couple more bad decisions at the end by him

    The guy followed through on bringing the troops home, which is what America wanted. Now conservatives are pissing and moaning about how it went down? Color me shocked. (as if American conservatives give a rat's ass about Afghani Muslims. Please) 

    This would have been a cluster fuck in 2012, 2017 or 2024. At least the guy isn't up there making excuses for the mess. 

    "The buck stops here." It was refreshing to hear that after the last 5 years of bullshit excuses and finger pointing. I don't love Biden, I don't even like him; but compared to his predecessor? He'll do. 
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,035
    Blaming Biden for this mess is fucking pathetic. 
    Well he did say just last week, when asked if a Taliban takeover was imminent, that it wouldn't happen because the Afghan army "has 300,000 troops and are as well-equipped as any army in the world." Well it did happen, without any resistance. And he also said that the withdrawal would be nothing like Saigon at the end of Vietnam, but it very much has been (maybe worse); an emergency evacuation of the U.S. embassy. Chaos at the airport, including Afghan's clinging to a airplane as it takes off. 

    As far as the entire clusterfuck of this war goes, the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations all share in some blame, as do both political parties. But execution of the withdrawal, that's on the current administration. Frankly, for those of you that love Biden, it's not really something to be concerned with, or to be overly defensive of him for. This war has been 20 years of bad decisions by everyone else, what's wrong with a couple more bad decisions at the end by him

    The guy followed through on bringing the troops home, which is what America wanted. Now conservatives are pissing and moaning about how it went down? Color me shocked. (as if American conservatives give a rat's ass about Afghani Muslims. Please) 

    This would have been a cluster fuck in 2012, 2017 or 2024. At least the guy isn't up there making excuses for the mess. 

    "The buck stops here." It was refreshing to hear that after the last 5 years of bullshit excuses and finger pointing. I don't love Biden, I don't even like him; but compared to his predecessor? He'll do. 
    You have to be kidding. He was totally pointing fingers by blaming the Afghan military. Plus he was deflecting, as you are, by focusing on bringing the troops home (the troops have been gradually coming home for years now) and not talking about the botched exit. I mean, if bringing the troops home deserves praise, it was Trump that brokered the deal, and if he was re-elected, he'd be the one following through on it now (and probably botching the hell out of it even worse than Biden). 

    Here, watch this guy.  He knows this stuff better than me, you, Biden, or Trump.....



    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

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  • curmudgeonesscurmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capitalPosts: 2,884
    mcgruff10 said:
    I think the jury is still out on if the Kabul evacuation will look like the fall of Saigon.  We still have time to turn this around and get people out.  
    That’s fair. But the optics are comparable so far. 

    I'm hearing that after 24 hours of pure chaos, things have settled down and are proceeding in a more orderly fashion, flights have resumed, people are being evacuated. Unfortunately, the appalling images -- and they were appalling! -- from yesterday are the images that everyone has seen. I'm not excusing it. What I am doing is trying to wait for the dust to settle and for most of the finger-pointing to stop to get a better understanding of what is happening.

    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 26,710
    edited August 2021
    Blaming Biden for this mess is fucking pathetic. 
    Well he did say just last week, when asked if a Taliban takeover was imminent, that it wouldn't happen because the Afghan army "has 300,000 troops and are as well-equipped as any army in the world." Well it did happen, without any resistance. And he also said that the withdrawal would be nothing like Saigon at the end of Vietnam, but it very much has been (maybe worse); an emergency evacuation of the U.S. embassy. Chaos at the airport, including Afghan's clinging to a airplane as it takes off. 

    As far as the entire clusterfuck of this war goes, the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations all share in some blame, as do both political parties. But execution of the withdrawal, that's on the current administration. Frankly, for those of you that love Biden, it's not really something to be concerned with, or to be overly defensive of him for. This war has been 20 years of bad decisions by everyone else, what's wrong with a couple more bad decisions at the end by him

    The guy followed through on bringing the troops home, which is what America wanted. Now conservatives are pissing and moaning about how it went down? Color me shocked. (as if American conservatives give a rat's ass about Afghani Muslims. Please) 

    This would have been a cluster fuck in 2012, 2017 or 2024. At least the guy isn't up there making excuses for the mess. 

    "The buck stops here." It was refreshing to hear that after the last 5 years of bullshit excuses and finger pointing. I don't love Biden, I don't even like him; but compared to his predecessor? He'll do. 
    You have to be kidding. He was totally pointing fingers by blaming the Afghan military. Plus he was deflecting, as you are, by focusing on bringing the troops home (the troops have been gradually coming home for years now) and not talking about the botched exit. I mean, if bringing the troops home deserves praise, it was Trump that brokered the deal, and if he was re-elected, he'd be the one following through on it now (and probably botching the hell out of it even worse than Biden). 

    Here, watch this guy.  He knows this stuff better than me, you, Biden, or Trump.....



    It does like the Afghan army is the one to blame for all of this.  Were there any battles to slow the taliban down
    in recent weeks?
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • curmudgeonesscurmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capitalPosts: 2,884
    mcgruff10 said:
    Blaming Biden for this mess is fucking pathetic. 
    Well he did say just last week, when asked if a Taliban takeover was imminent, that it wouldn't happen because the Afghan army "has 300,000 troops and are as well-equipped as any army in the world." Well it did happen, without any resistance. And he also said that the withdrawal would be nothing like Saigon at the end of Vietnam, but it very much has been (maybe worse); an emergency evacuation of the U.S. embassy. Chaos at the airport, including Afghan's clinging to a airplane as it takes off. 

    As far as the entire clusterfuck of this war goes, the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations all share in some blame, as do both political parties. But execution of the withdrawal, that's on the current administration. Frankly, for those of you that love Biden, it's not really something to be concerned with, or to be overly defensive of him for. This war has been 20 years of bad decisions by everyone else, what's wrong with a couple more bad decisions at the end by him

    The guy followed through on bringing the troops home, which is what America wanted. Now conservatives are pissing and moaning about how it went down? Color me shocked. (as if American conservatives give a rat's ass about Afghani Muslims. Please) 

    This would have been a cluster fuck in 2012, 2017 or 2024. At least the guy isn't up there making excuses for the mess. 

    "The buck stops here." It was refreshing to hear that after the last 5 years of bullshit excuses and finger pointing. I don't love Biden, I don't even like him; but compared to his predecessor? He'll do. 
    You have to be kidding. He was totally pointing fingers by blaming the Afghan military. Plus he was deflecting, as you are, by focusing on bringing the troops home (the troops have been gradually coming home for years now) and not talking about the botched exit. I mean, if bringing the troops home deserves praise, it was Trump that brokered the deal, and if he was re-elected, he'd be the one following through on it now (and probably botching the hell out of it even worse than Biden). 

    Here, watch this guy.  He knows this stuff better than me, you, Biden, or Trump.....



    It does like the Afghan army is the one to blame for all of this.  Was there any battles to slow the taliban down
    in recent weeks?


    No. The Taliban paid people to turn power over to them without a fight.
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,131
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  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 7,234
    Blaming Biden for this mess is fucking pathetic. 
    Well he did say just last week, when asked if a Taliban takeover was imminent, that it wouldn't happen because the Afghan army "has 300,000 troops and are as well-equipped as any army in the world." Well it did happen, without any resistance. And he also said that the withdrawal would be nothing like Saigon at the end of Vietnam, but it very much has been (maybe worse); an emergency evacuation of the U.S. embassy. Chaos at the airport, including Afghan's clinging to a airplane as it takes off. 

    As far as the entire clusterfuck of this war goes, the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations all share in some blame, as do both political parties. But execution of the withdrawal, that's on the current administration. Frankly, for those of you that love Biden, it's not really something to be concerned with, or to be overly defensive of him for. This war has been 20 years of bad decisions by everyone else, what's wrong with a couple more bad decisions at the end by him

    The guy followed through on bringing the troops home, which is what America wanted. Now conservatives are pissing and moaning about how it went down? Color me shocked. (as if American conservatives give a rat's ass about Afghani Muslims. Please) 

    This would have been a cluster fuck in 2012, 2017 or 2024. At least the guy isn't up there making excuses for the mess. 

    "The buck stops here." It was refreshing to hear that after the last 5 years of bullshit excuses and finger pointing. I don't love Biden, I don't even like him; but compared to his predecessor? He'll do. 
    You have to be kidding. He was totally pointing fingers by blaming the Afghan military. Plus he was deflecting, as you are, by focusing on bringing the troops home (the troops have been gradually coming home for years now) and not talking about the botched exit. I mean, if bringing the troops home deserves praise, it was Trump that brokered the deal, and if he was re-elected, he'd be the one following through on it now (and probably botching the hell out of it even worse than Biden). 

    Here, watch this guy.  He knows this stuff better than me, you, Biden, or Trump.....



    This wasn't about bringing the troops home and ending the 'forever war'? Ok. 

    Who from the Afghan government did trump & Pompeo have meet with them and the Taliban at Camp David? 

    Oh that's right, no one, They negotiated this exit exclusively with the Taliban. Weird, I know. 

    Is Biden up there crying that trump set the wheels in motion for this shit show? No, he's accepting that the fallout from this is on him and his administration. It's a nice change of pace from the last few years. 

    I agree, trump would have almost certainly handled this worse. I also agree the blame for this is on the entire American government, both parties, and 20 years worth of policy. 

    Which brings me back to my original statement: blaming Biden for this is fucking pathetic. This would have been a disaster regardless of when or under whose administration it happened. 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 32,709
    there is something seriously wrong with her and MTG
    I think I'll move to Australia


  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,035
    mcgruff10 said:
    Blaming Biden for this mess is fucking pathetic. 
    Well he did say just last week, when asked if a Taliban takeover was imminent, that it wouldn't happen because the Afghan army "has 300,000 troops and are as well-equipped as any army in the world." Well it did happen, without any resistance. And he also said that the withdrawal would be nothing like Saigon at the end of Vietnam, but it very much has been (maybe worse); an emergency evacuation of the U.S. embassy. Chaos at the airport, including Afghan's clinging to a airplane as it takes off. 

    As far as the entire clusterfuck of this war goes, the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations all share in some blame, as do both political parties. But execution of the withdrawal, that's on the current administration. Frankly, for those of you that love Biden, it's not really something to be concerned with, or to be overly defensive of him for. This war has been 20 years of bad decisions by everyone else, what's wrong with a couple more bad decisions at the end by him

    The guy followed through on bringing the troops home, which is what America wanted. Now conservatives are pissing and moaning about how it went down? Color me shocked. (as if American conservatives give a rat's ass about Afghani Muslims. Please) 

    This would have been a cluster fuck in 2012, 2017 or 2024. At least the guy isn't up there making excuses for the mess. 

    "The buck stops here." It was refreshing to hear that after the last 5 years of bullshit excuses and finger pointing. I don't love Biden, I don't even like him; but compared to his predecessor? He'll do. 
    You have to be kidding. He was totally pointing fingers by blaming the Afghan military. Plus he was deflecting, as you are, by focusing on bringing the troops home (the troops have been gradually coming home for years now) and not talking about the botched exit. I mean, if bringing the troops home deserves praise, it was Trump that brokered the deal, and if he was re-elected, he'd be the one following through on it now (and probably botching the hell out of it even worse than Biden). 

    Here, watch this guy.  He knows this stuff better than me, you, Biden, or Trump.....



    It does like the Afghan army is the one to blame for all of this.  Were there any battles to slow the taliban down
    in recent weeks?
    No I think Trump’s stupid withdrawal deal led to the Afghan military giving up and the Taliban becoming overly empowered. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 26,710
    mcgruff10 said:
    Blaming Biden for this mess is fucking pathetic. 
    Well he did say just last week, when asked if a Taliban takeover was imminent, that it wouldn't happen because the Afghan army "has 300,000 troops and are as well-equipped as any army in the world." Well it did happen, without any resistance. And he also said that the withdrawal would be nothing like Saigon at the end of Vietnam, but it very much has been (maybe worse); an emergency evacuation of the U.S. embassy. Chaos at the airport, including Afghan's clinging to a airplane as it takes off. 

    As far as the entire clusterfuck of this war goes, the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations all share in some blame, as do both political parties. But execution of the withdrawal, that's on the current administration. Frankly, for those of you that love Biden, it's not really something to be concerned with, or to be overly defensive of him for. This war has been 20 years of bad decisions by everyone else, what's wrong with a couple more bad decisions at the end by him

    The guy followed through on bringing the troops home, which is what America wanted. Now conservatives are pissing and moaning about how it went down? Color me shocked. (as if American conservatives give a rat's ass about Afghani Muslims. Please) 

    This would have been a cluster fuck in 2012, 2017 or 2024. At least the guy isn't up there making excuses for the mess. 

    "The buck stops here." It was refreshing to hear that after the last 5 years of bullshit excuses and finger pointing. I don't love Biden, I don't even like him; but compared to his predecessor? He'll do. 
    You have to be kidding. He was totally pointing fingers by blaming the Afghan military. Plus he was deflecting, as you are, by focusing on bringing the troops home (the troops have been gradually coming home for years now) and not talking about the botched exit. I mean, if bringing the troops home deserves praise, it was Trump that brokered the deal, and if he was re-elected, he'd be the one following through on it now (and probably botching the hell out of it even worse than Biden). 

    Here, watch this guy.  He knows this stuff better than me, you, Biden, or Trump.....



    It does like the Afghan army is the one to blame for all of this.  Were there any battles to slow the taliban down
    in recent weeks?
    No I think Trump’s stupid withdrawal deal led to the Afghan military giving up and the Taliban becoming overly empowered. 
    Based on what I ve been reading I agree 100% with you.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 14,381
    Seems like there was little to no bloodshed. What was the casualty situation in Saigon?

    Politically for Biden---he was stupid for making those comments last week and optics of such a quick reclamation by the Taliban do not look good at all. But the overwhelming majority of Americans wanted this to be over asap so I don't think it will have lasting damage. It's not like people immediately think about Gerald Ford when someone mentions the end of Vietnam. 
    Two U.S. Marines in Saigon....killed by a rocket. Five deaths at the Kabul airport. 

    The no-bloodshed thing is another thing that makes it comparable. The Taliban (or back then, the North Vietnamese) marching in, basically saying "leave or there will be bloodshed," and the U.S. scrambling to leave. 
    Yeah...I guess. No US casualties this time around helps. The image of the plane taking off the those people chasing after was certainly heartbreaking though.

    But again...politically, I don't get a sense that people blame Gerald Ford for Vietnam though. When I think of Vietnam I think of Nixon and LBJ primarily. People were more than fed up with that war by that point. I think this is similar in that respect. 


    I was reading earlier they hope to have close to 30,000 evacuated by the end of the month? If that goes smoothly, could help change the current perception. 
    yes they have until August 31....hopefully no bloodshed but the Taliban surely realize they will be liquified if they do anything stupid
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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,131
    this was the shit sandwich/poison pill/trap whatever you want to call it set in place by trump because he knew he would not have to deal with it after 1/20/21. he knew he lost, and he was going to salt the ground on the way out.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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