#46 President Joe Biden

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Comments

  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,993
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    I think this is misleading a bit, in the headline.  The DOJ filed the motion.  If Biden has shown us anything, he has allowed the DOJ to work free of political influence, to the point where cases filed on behalf of Trump have continued forward.  The official policy of the US gov't today is that the federal death penalty is intact.  If anyone deserves the death penalty, this is a strong candidate. 
    In your opinion. And Mr. Compassion's DOJ's, I guess.

    I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't execute people for a mistake they made before their brains are fully developed; he couldn't even buy a beer or rent a car, but if he's to be our scapegoat for revenge, I guess that's who we are as a nation. Barbaric.
    He was a legal adult.. I'm vehemently against juveniles in the adult court system regardless of the crime.  But at some point a child becomes an adult.  Whether that should be 18, 21 or 25, I can't say.  But it is 18 today. If he was 30 when he did it rather than 19 or 20, would you feel differently?
    I'm the complete opposite. If you commit murder at age 16 or 17, I think you should face those charges as an adult. Though I wouldn't be against the person being held in juvenile detention until they're 18. 
    I don't think kids that young fully understand consequences.  And if you're going bad at that age, it's more than likely your environment and/or mental illness.  
    There's kids that young that are hardened criminals. You're right that environment and/or mental illness will more than likely be the cause. But it's just as likely to be the cause for a 18 or 19 year old. I just don't agree that someone that is a few months away from being 18 that murders someone should go into the juvenile system, while someone that just turned 18 should go into the adult system. And it wouldn't happen like that. The 17 and a half year old would likely be certified to adult court. 
    There are kids as young as 15 that are charged as adults.  In some states, it's mandatory, completely out of the judge's discretion.  17 years and 10 months.. fine.  I'm not arguing that.  15, 16, and even 17 is too young.  

    I'm not surprised that you feel this way. I just disagree. 
    This is an interesting read.  It talks about Kip's case and the broader issues around mental health,  and trying kids as adults without and latitude by a judge or prosecutor. 

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kip-kinkel-is-ready-to-speak_n_60abd623e4b0a2568315c62d
    Thanks. I'll have to read this later, as I am somewhat familiar with Kinkel's case. But it's too long to read now at work. 
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,103
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    I think this is misleading a bit, in the headline.  The DOJ filed the motion.  If Biden has shown us anything, he has allowed the DOJ to work free of political influence, to the point where cases filed on behalf of Trump have continued forward.  The official policy of the US gov't today is that the federal death penalty is intact.  If anyone deserves the death penalty, this is a strong candidate. 
    In your opinion. And Mr. Compassion's DOJ's, I guess.

    I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't execute people for a mistake they made before their brains are fully developed; he couldn't even buy a beer or rent a car, but if he's to be our scapegoat for revenge, I guess that's who we are as a nation. Barbaric.
    He was a legal adult.. I'm vehemently against juveniles in the adult court system regardless of the crime.  But at some point a child becomes an adult.  Whether that should be 18, 21 or 25, I can't say.  But it is 18 today. If he was 30 when he did it rather than 19 or 20, would you feel differently?
    I'm the complete opposite. If you commit murder at age 16 or 17, I think you should face those charges as an adult. Though I wouldn't be against the person being held in juvenile detention until they're 18. 
    I don't think kids that young fully understand consequences.  And if you're going bad at that age, it's more than likely your environment and/or mental illness.  
    There's kids that young that are hardened criminals. You're right that environment and/or mental illness will more than likely be the cause. But it's just as likely to be the cause for a 18 or 19 year old. I just don't agree that someone that is a few months away from being 18 that murders someone should go into the juvenile system, while someone that just turned 18 should go into the adult system. And it wouldn't happen like that. The 17 and a half year old would likely be certified to adult court. 
    There are kids as young as 15 that are charged as adults.  In some states, it's mandatory, completely out of the judge's discretion.  17 years and 10 months.. fine.  I'm not arguing that.  15, 16, and even 17 is too young.  

    I'm not surprised that you feel this way. I just disagree. 
    This is an interesting read.  It talks about Kip's case and the broader issues around mental health,  and trying kids as adults without and latitude by a judge or prosecutor. 

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kip-kinkel-is-ready-to-speak_n_60abd623e4b0a2568315c62d
    This paragraph from the article strikes me and leads me to think a couple of things:

    Most people with schizophrenia do not commit acts of violence — in fact, people with severe mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators. But Kinkel’s voices demanded he commit terrible violence at an incredibly vulnerable time in his young life.

    Mainly, how things might have been different if he wasn't given a rifle when he was 12, allowed to purchase a hand gun with money he had saved a year before he committed the killings and if he had gotten the appropriate mental health care with his father being more supportive of his getting treatment. Oh, and if "responsible" gun owners secured their firearms so they couldn't be stolen and sold for $110.00.

    The ease with which firearms are obtained is absolutely ridiculous. 'Murica, and the shots ring out.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    I think this is misleading a bit, in the headline.  The DOJ filed the motion.  If Biden has shown us anything, he has allowed the DOJ to work free of political influence, to the point where cases filed on behalf of Trump have continued forward.  The official policy of the US gov't today is that the federal death penalty is intact.  If anyone deserves the death penalty, this is a strong candidate. 
    In your opinion. And Mr. Compassion's DOJ's, I guess.

    I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't execute people for a mistake they made before their brains are fully developed; he couldn't even buy a beer or rent a car, but if he's to be our scapegoat for revenge, I guess that's who we are as a nation. Barbaric.
    He was a legal adult.. I'm vehemently against juveniles in the adult court system regardless of the crime.  But at some point a child becomes an adult.  Whether that should be 18, 21 or 25, I can't say.  But it is 18 today. If he was 30 when he did it rather than 19 or 20, would you feel differently?
    I'm the complete opposite. If you commit murder at age 16 or 17, I think you should face those charges as an adult. Though I wouldn't be against the person being held in juvenile detention until they're 18. 
    I don't think kids that young fully understand consequences.  And if you're going bad at that age, it's more than likely your environment and/or mental illness.  
    There's kids that young that are hardened criminals. You're right that environment and/or mental illness will more than likely be the cause. But it's just as likely to be the cause for a 18 or 19 year old. I just don't agree that someone that is a few months away from being 18 that murders someone should go into the juvenile system, while someone that just turned 18 should go into the adult system. And it wouldn't happen like that. The 17 and a half year old would likely be certified to adult court. 
    There are kids as young as 15 that are charged as adults.  In some states, it's mandatory, completely out of the judge's discretion.  17 years and 10 months.. fine.  I'm not arguing that.  15, 16, and even 17 is too young.  

    I'm not surprised that you feel this way. I just disagree. 
    This is an interesting read.  It talks about Kip's case and the broader issues around mental health,  and trying kids as adults without and latitude by a judge or prosecutor. 

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kip-kinkel-is-ready-to-speak_n_60abd623e4b0a2568315c62d
    This paragraph from the article strikes me and leads me to think a couple of things:

    Most people with schizophrenia do not commit acts of violence — in fact, people with severe mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators. But Kinkel’s voices demanded he commit terrible violence at an incredibly vulnerable time in his young life.

    Mainly, how things might have been different if he wasn't given a rifle when he was 12, allowed to purchase a hand gun with money he had saved a year before he committed the killings and if he had gotten the appropriate mental health care with his father being more supportive of his getting treatment. Oh, and if "responsible" gun owners secured their firearms so they couldn't be stolen and sold for $110.00.

    The ease with which firearms are obtained is absolutely ridiculous. 'Murica, and the shots ring out.
    Yes,  his parents put him in a risk position.  Doesn't mean that he could not have killed with a knife or something else.  But they made it easier. 
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,103
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    I think this is misleading a bit, in the headline.  The DOJ filed the motion.  If Biden has shown us anything, he has allowed the DOJ to work free of political influence, to the point where cases filed on behalf of Trump have continued forward.  The official policy of the US gov't today is that the federal death penalty is intact.  If anyone deserves the death penalty, this is a strong candidate. 
    In your opinion. And Mr. Compassion's DOJ's, I guess.

    I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't execute people for a mistake they made before their brains are fully developed; he couldn't even buy a beer or rent a car, but if he's to be our scapegoat for revenge, I guess that's who we are as a nation. Barbaric.
    He was a legal adult.. I'm vehemently against juveniles in the adult court system regardless of the crime.  But at some point a child becomes an adult.  Whether that should be 18, 21 or 25, I can't say.  But it is 18 today. If he was 30 when he did it rather than 19 or 20, would you feel differently?
    I'm the complete opposite. If you commit murder at age 16 or 17, I think you should face those charges as an adult. Though I wouldn't be against the person being held in juvenile detention until they're 18. 
    I don't think kids that young fully understand consequences.  And if you're going bad at that age, it's more than likely your environment and/or mental illness.  
    There's kids that young that are hardened criminals. You're right that environment and/or mental illness will more than likely be the cause. But it's just as likely to be the cause for a 18 or 19 year old. I just don't agree that someone that is a few months away from being 18 that murders someone should go into the juvenile system, while someone that just turned 18 should go into the adult system. And it wouldn't happen like that. The 17 and a half year old would likely be certified to adult court. 
    There are kids as young as 15 that are charged as adults.  In some states, it's mandatory, completely out of the judge's discretion.  17 years and 10 months.. fine.  I'm not arguing that.  15, 16, and even 17 is too young.  

    I'm not surprised that you feel this way. I just disagree. 
    This is an interesting read.  It talks about Kip's case and the broader issues around mental health,  and trying kids as adults without and latitude by a judge or prosecutor. 

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kip-kinkel-is-ready-to-speak_n_60abd623e4b0a2568315c62d
    This paragraph from the article strikes me and leads me to think a couple of things:

    Most people with schizophrenia do not commit acts of violence — in fact, people with severe mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators. But Kinkel’s voices demanded he commit terrible violence at an incredibly vulnerable time in his young life.

    Mainly, how things might have been different if he wasn't given a rifle when he was 12, allowed to purchase a hand gun with money he had saved a year before he committed the killings and if he had gotten the appropriate mental health care with his father being more supportive of his getting treatment. Oh, and if "responsible" gun owners secured their firearms so they couldn't be stolen and sold for $110.00.

    The ease with which firearms are obtained is absolutely ridiculous. 'Murica, and the shots ring out.
    Yes,  his parents put him in a risk position.  Doesn't mean that he could not have killed with a knife or something else.  But they made it easier. 
    I’m not sure he would have killed both his parents, two classmates and injured 25 though. Stabbing someone is a much more personal endeavor and he was stopped by someone he had shot. A hell of a lot easier.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    I think this is misleading a bit, in the headline.  The DOJ filed the motion.  If Biden has shown us anything, he has allowed the DOJ to work free of political influence, to the point where cases filed on behalf of Trump have continued forward.  The official policy of the US gov't today is that the federal death penalty is intact.  If anyone deserves the death penalty, this is a strong candidate. 
    In your opinion. And Mr. Compassion's DOJ's, I guess.

    I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't execute people for a mistake they made before their brains are fully developed; he couldn't even buy a beer or rent a car, but if he's to be our scapegoat for revenge, I guess that's who we are as a nation. Barbaric.
    He was a legal adult.. I'm vehemently against juveniles in the adult court system regardless of the crime.  But at some point a child becomes an adult.  Whether that should be 18, 21 or 25, I can't say.  But it is 18 today. If he was 30 when he did it rather than 19 or 20, would you feel differently?
    I'm the complete opposite. If you commit murder at age 16 or 17, I think you should face those charges as an adult. Though I wouldn't be against the person being held in juvenile detention until they're 18. 
    I don't think kids that young fully understand consequences.  And if you're going bad at that age, it's more than likely your environment and/or mental illness.  
    There's kids that young that are hardened criminals. You're right that environment and/or mental illness will more than likely be the cause. But it's just as likely to be the cause for a 18 or 19 year old. I just don't agree that someone that is a few months away from being 18 that murders someone should go into the juvenile system, while someone that just turned 18 should go into the adult system. And it wouldn't happen like that. The 17 and a half year old would likely be certified to adult court. 
    There are kids as young as 15 that are charged as adults.  In some states, it's mandatory, completely out of the judge's discretion.  17 years and 10 months.. fine.  I'm not arguing that.  15, 16, and even 17 is too young.  

    I'm not surprised that you feel this way. I just disagree. 
    This is an interesting read.  It talks about Kip's case and the broader issues around mental health,  and trying kids as adults without and latitude by a judge or prosecutor. 

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kip-kinkel-is-ready-to-speak_n_60abd623e4b0a2568315c62d
    This paragraph from the article strikes me and leads me to think a couple of things:

    Most people with schizophrenia do not commit acts of violence — in fact, people with severe mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators. But Kinkel’s voices demanded he commit terrible violence at an incredibly vulnerable time in his young life.

    Mainly, how things might have been different if he wasn't given a rifle when he was 12, allowed to purchase a hand gun with money he had saved a year before he committed the killings and if he had gotten the appropriate mental health care with his father being more supportive of his getting treatment. Oh, and if "responsible" gun owners secured their firearms so they couldn't be stolen and sold for $110.00.

    The ease with which firearms are obtained is absolutely ridiculous. 'Murica, and the shots ring out.
    Yes,  his parents put him in a risk position.  Doesn't mean that he could not have killed with a knife or something else.  But they made it easier. 
    I’m not sure he would have killed both his parents, two classmates and injured 25 though. Stabbing someone is a much more personal endeavor and he was stopped by someone he had shot. A hell of a lot easier.
    Certainly not as efficient or complete.  That's for sure 
  • Kat
    Kat Posts: 4,956
    "It's your plane. You can go when you want."
    Journalist to Joe on the tarmac talking to the press and saying he had to go. 

    I think they want to keep asking questions, right?  :lol:
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    Boy oh boy, what a difference from the last guy. America is back. 
    www.myspace.com
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,103
    Kat said:
    "It's your plane. You can go when you want."
    Journalist to Joe on the tarmac talking to the press and saying he had to go. 

    I think they want to keep asking questions, right?  :lol:
    But does it have a gold plated toilet like Putin on the ritz's? And POOTWH fantasized about?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    edited June 2021
    Kat said:
    "It's your plane. You can go when you want."
    Journalist to Joe on the tarmac talking to the press and saying he had to go. 

    I think they want to keep asking questions, right?  :lol:
    But does it have a gold plated toilet like Putin on the ritz's? And POOTWH fantasized about?
    Gold toilets are reserved for working class heroes. Pretty much just the Trumps. And maybe Bruce Springsteen.

    The Elite shit on boring white toilets.
    Post edited by OnWis97 on
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    Seriously though...I think he came off real well today and this past week in general. Portrayed confidence, sensibility, humility, a little humor and overall leadership.

    It's amazing how different a message can be sent if you are not going it alone and have your ally's backing you up. Overall, he just appeared so much stronger as compared to Trump in 2018. I know this is obvious, but needs to be said. 


    Also liked he he went out of his way to apologize for being a "wiseass" to Katelyn Collins earlier. lol 
    www.myspace.com
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,367
     
    'Pure business' at Biden-Putin summit: No hugs, no brickbats
    By JONATHAN LEMIRE, VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV and AAMER MADHANI
    1 hour ago

    GENEVA (AP) — President Joe Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin concluded their summit on Wednesday with an agreement to return their nations' ambassadors to their posts in Washington and Moscow and a plan to begin work toward replacing the last remaining treaty between the two countries limiting nuclear weapons.

    But the two leaders offered starkly different views on difficult simmering issues including cyber and ransomware attacks originating from Russia.

    Putin insisted anew that his country has nothing to do with such attacks, despite U..S. intelligence that indicates otherwise. Biden, meanwhile, said that he made clear to Putin that if Russia crossed certain red lines — including going after major American infrastructure — his administration would respond and “the consequences of that would be devastating,”

    Will Putin change his behavior? Biden was asked at a post-summit news conference.

    “I said what will change their behavior is if the rest of the world reacts” in a way that “diminishes their standing in the world," Biden said. "I’m not confident of anything. I’m just stating a fact.”

    Both leaders, who have stirred escalating tension since Biden took office in January, suggested that while an enormous chasm between the two nations remains the talks were constructive.

    Putin said there was “no hostility” during three hours of talks, a session that wrapped up more quickly than expected.

    When it was over, Putin had first crack at describing the results at a solo news conference, with Biden following soon after. Biden said they spent a “great deal of time” discussing cybersecurity and he believed Putin understood the U.S. position.

    “I pointed out to him, we have significant cyber capability," Biden said. "In fact, (if) they violate basic norms, we will respond. ... I think that the last thing he wants now is a Cold War.”

    Putin noted that Biden raised human rights issues with him, including the fate of opposition leader Alexei Navalny. Putin defended Navalny’s prison sentence and deflected repeated questions about mistreatment of Russian opposition leaders by highlighting U.S. domestic turmoil, including the Black Lives Matter protests and the Jan. 6 Capitol insurrection.

    Putin held forth for nearly an hour before international reporters. While showing defiance at queries about Biden pressing him on human rights, he also expressed respect for Biden as an experienced political leader.

    The Russian noted that Biden repeated wise advice his mother had given him and also spoke about his family — messaging that Putin said might not have been entirely relevant to their summit but demonstrated Biden's “moral values.” Though he raised doubt that the U.S.-Russia relationship could soon return to a measure of equilibrium of years past, Putin suggested that Biden was someone he could work with.

    “The meeting was actually very efficient,” Putin said. “It was substantive, it was specific. It was aimed at achieving results, and one of them was pushing back the frontiers of trust.”

    Putin said he and Biden agreed to begin negotiations on nuclear talks to potentially replace the New START treaty limiting nuclear weapons after it expires in 2026.

    Washington broke off talks with Moscow in 2014 in response to Russia’s annexation of Ukraine’s Crimea and its military intervention in support of separatists in eastern Ukraine. Talks resumed in 2017 but gained little traction and failed to produce an agreement on extending the New START treaty during the Trump administration.

    The Russian president said there was an agreement between the leaders to return their ambassadors to their respective postings. Both countries had pulled back their top envoys to Washington and Moscow as relations chilled in recent months.

    Russia’s ambassador to the U.S., Anatoly Antonov, was recalled from Washington about three months ago after Biden called Putin a killer; U.S. Ambassador to Russia John Sullivan left Moscow almost two months ago, after Russia suggested he return to Washington for consultations. Putin said that the ambassadors were expected to return their posts in the coming days.

    The meeting in a book-lined room had a somewhat awkward beginning — both men appeared to avoid looking directly at each other during a brief and chaotic photo opportunity before a scrum of jostling reporters.

    Biden nodded when a reporter asked if Putin could be trusted, but the White House quickly sent out a tweet insisting that the president was “very clearly not responding to any one question, but nodding in acknowledgment to the press generally.”

    Their body language, at least in their brief moments together in front of the press, was not exceptionally warm.

    The two leaders did shake hands — Biden extended his hand first and smiled at the stoic Russian leader — after Swiss President Guy Parmelin welcomed them to Switzerland for the summit. When they were in front of the cameras a few minutes later—this time inside the grand lakeside mansion where the summit was held—they seemed to avoid eye contact.

    For months, Biden and Putin have traded sharp rhetoric. Biden has repeatedly called out Putin for malicious cyberattacks by Russian-based hackers on U.S. interests, for the jailing of Russia's foremost opposition leader and for interference in American elections.

    Putin has reacted with whatabout-isms and denials — pointing to the Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol to argue that the U.S. has no business lecturing on democratic norms and insisting that the Russian government hasn't been involved in any election interference or cyberattacks despite U.S. intelligence showing otherwise.

    In advance of Wednesday's meeting, both sides set out to lower expectations.

    Even so, Biden said it would be an important step if the United States and Russia were able to ultimately find “stability and predictability" in their relationship, a significant goal for a president who sees Russia as one of America's crucial adversaries.

    Arrangements for the meeting were carefully choreographed and vigorously negotiated.

    Biden first floated the meeting in an April phone call in which he informed Putin that he would be expelling several Russian diplomats and imposing sanctions against dozens of people and companies, part of an effort to hold the Kremlin accountable for interference in last year’s presidential election and the hacking of federal agencies.

    The White House announced ahead of the summit that Biden wouldn't hold a joint news conference with Putin, deciding it did not want to appear to elevate Putin at a moment when the U.S. president is urging European allies to pressure Putin to cut out myriad provocations.

    Biden sees himself with few peers on foreign policy. He traveled the globe as a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and was given difficult foreign policy assignments by President Barack Obama when Biden was vice president. His portfolio included messy spots like Iraq and Ukraine and weighing the mettle of China's Xi Jinping during his rise to power.

    He has repeatedly said that he believes executing effective foreign policy comes from forming strong personal relations, and he has managed to find rapport with both the likes of Turkey's Recep Tayyip Erdogan, whom Biden has labeled an “autocrat,” and more conventional Western leaders including Canada's Justin Trudeau.

    But with Putin, who he once said has “no soul," Biden has long been wary. At the same time, he acknowledges that Putin, who has remained the most powerful figure in Russian politics over the span of five U.S. presidents, is not without talent.

    “He’s bright. He’s tough," Biden said earlier this week. “And I have found that he is a — as they say ... a worthy adversary."

    ___

    Associated Press writer Zeke Miller in Washington and AP video journalist Daniel Kozin contributed reporting

    —-

    This story has been corrected to show that Geneva is not Switzerland's capital.


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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,367
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,465
    edited June 2021
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Boy oh boy, what a difference from the last guy. America is back. 
    Bahahaha. Lol. Angry dementia grandpa blew it. Embarrassing. But I guess if you only get rainbow unicorn news. 
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,367
    Boy oh boy, what a difference from the last guy. America is back. 
    Bahahaha. Lol. Angry dementia grandpa blew it. Embarrassing. But I guess if you only get rainbow unicorn news. 
    Amazing how bias seems to get in the way of perceiving reality as reality. If the world makes it through this "ignorance empowerment" movement, people will study the cognitive dissonance exhibited by you and your ilk, and the strategies of influence that were so incredibly effective against those incapable of critical thought, or just unwilling to use it.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,769
    benjs said:
    Boy oh boy, what a difference from the last guy. America is back. 
    Bahahaha. Lol. Angry dementia grandpa blew it. Embarrassing. But I guess if you only get rainbow unicorn news. 
    Amazing how bias seems to get in the way of perceiving reality as reality. If the world makes it through this "ignorance empowerment" movement, people will study the cognitive dissonance exhibited by you and your ilk, and the strategies of influence that were so incredibly effective against those incapable of critical thought, or just unwilling to use it.

    Joseph Goebbels would have great admiration for the right wing propaganda campaign of the last 20 years if he were alive to see it. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    Boy oh boy, what a difference from the last guy. America is back. 
    Bahahaha. Lol. Angry dementia grandpa blew it. Embarrassing. But I guess if you only get rainbow unicorn news. 
    Got another round at Torrey today??
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,177
    Boy oh boy, what a difference from the last guy. America is back. 
    Bahahaha. Lol. Angry dementia grandpa blew it. Embarrassing. But I guess if you only get rainbow unicorn news. 
    If anything proves that Biden doesn't have dementia it would be that incident.  You need to come to grips that we have a real president again.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

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    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,103
    Boy oh boy, what a difference from the last guy. America is back. 
    Bahahaha. Lol. Angry dementia grandpa blew it. Embarrassing. But I guess if you only get rainbow unicorn news. 
    Isn’t it great though that we have a POTUS who can sit in a room of other world leaders, inclusive of one of our main adversaries, and sit on a chair not looking like he thinks he’s invisible and sitting on a toilet taking a massive dump?

    President Joe Biden, making the world great again. #MWGA
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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    when trump was an asshole to reporters (every single day): go trump! fuck the fake news!
    when biden is an asshole to reporters (and then apologizes): he has dementia! how embarrassing! he's not fit to be prez!
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.