GOP

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  • Posts: 41,359
    mickeyrat said:
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    they are all chemical compounds
    Exactly.
  • Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,410
    It always amazes me when Qop members claim to be "pro-life" yet are always in support of the Death Penalty.
  • Posts: 41,359
    mrussel1 said:
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    Meh.  A more apt analogy would be if SC decided that their new "execution by firing squad" used an MG42.  9MM is just a size. 
    The gas predates the nazis use too.  It started off as a pesticide.
  • Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    tempo_n_groove said:
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    Inmates kill themselves?  Who said that?  Let the corrections department administer the drugs used in carrying it out just like they would have before.

    If corrections can buy the components to make a lethal gas why can't they buy components to make a sleep agent, heart stopping agent?
    Anaesthetics are more complicated than you realize. You can’t just whip one up. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Posts: 41,359
    oftenreading said:
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    Anaesthetics are more complicated than you realize. You can’t just whip one up. 
    They seem to be able to make a gas that causes death pretty easily but I am not a chemist and am talking out loud.

    Any chemists here?
  • Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    tempo_n_groove said:
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    They seem to be able to make a gas that causes death pretty easily but I am not a chemist and am talking out loud.

    Any chemists here?
    Executions are legal processes that are highly regulated and monitored. At a bare minimum they require licensed pharmaceuticals to ensure that the effect predictably leads to death without unexpected suffering such as respiratory paralysis while the inmate is still conscious. This is why you can’t just whip up a chemical in a lab. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Posts: 41,359
    oftenreading said:
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    Executions are legal processes that are highly regulated and monitored. At a bare minimum they require licensed pharmaceuticals to ensure that the effect predictably leads to death without unexpected suffering such as respiratory paralysis while the inmate is still conscious. This is why you can’t just whip up a chemical in a lab. 
    But they are literally doing just that.  

    Something is lost on me.  The corrections department bought components to make a gas.  If they are allowed to do that then they should be able to make a sleep agent too?
  • Posts: 30,879
    mickeyrat said:
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    they are all chemical compounds
    So you're saying the same companies sell both?  That would be very surprising 
  • Posts: 30,879
    tempo_n_groove said:
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    But they are literally doing just that.  

    Something is lost on me.  The corrections department bought components to make a gas.  If they are allowed to do that then they should be able to make a sleep agent too?
    You can buy ammonia and bleach and kill someone too.
  • Posts: 41,359
    mrussel1 said:
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    You can buy ammonia and bleach and kill someone too.
    You can drink them also or tie pods...

    Having the right concoction to make sure the person dies somewhat of dignity matters.  If it didn't then someone mentioned before that they could just club them, stone or crucify and whatnot.
  • Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Gern Blansten said:
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    Really?  Is that why?
    Just saw this now, scrolling back. Yes, it’s true. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Posts: 30,879
    tempo_n_groove said:
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    The gas predates the nazis use too.  It started off as a pesticide.
    Well yes, but it's quite infamous today.  
  • Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    tempo_n_groove said:
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    But they are literally doing just that.  

    Something is lost on me.  The corrections department bought components to make a gas.  If they are allowed to do that then they should be able to make a sleep agent too?
    The corrections department may well be trying to do this. That doesn’t make it legal, even by their own standards.  It certainly doesn’t make it ethical. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    edited June 2021
    Whenever I see/hear talk about the methods to execute and how we use less-than-optimal ways because of availability of chemicals, the elephant in the room is that the most important thing is that the state finds a way to kill people. To be honest, I used to be for the death penalty and I still believe there are people that we're better off without. But there's one key reason why I cannot support it: https://innocenceproject.org/ledell-lee-what-you-should-know-about-his-case-and-execution/. Was this guy innocent? I don't know.  But it's not realistic to think that nobody would ever be executed for something they didn't do.

    And the whole "tough on crime" thing causes more problems than it solves.
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  • Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    OnWis97 said:
    Whenever I see/hear talk about the methods to execute and how we use less-than-optimal ways because of availability of chemicals, the elephant in the room is that the most important thing is that the state finds a way to kill people. To be honest, I used to be for the death penalty and I still believe there are people that we're better off without. But there's one key reason why I cannot support it: https://innocenceproject.org/ledell-lee-what-you-should-know-about-his-case-and-execution/. Was this guy innocent? I don't know.  But it's not realistic to think that nobody would ever be executed for something they didn't do.

    And the whole "tough on crime" thing causes more problems than it solves.
    I completely agree but have kind of given up arguing those points here. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Posts: 41,359
    oftenreading said:
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    The corrections department may well be trying to do this. That doesn’t make it legal, even by their own standards.  It certainly doesn’t make it ethical. 
    If it isn't legal then that is something different.  I know there was a problem with an execution years back and is most likely why they stopped.  I would have to find the article though.
  • Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    HughFreakingDillon said:
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    of course. big pharma is worried more about the bottom line and optics than human suffering. 
    So are you trying to argue that they should be compelled to allow their drugs to be used for executions with the argument that this will avoid suffering? You’re taking the utilitarian stance that it’s going to happen anyway and there’s no point in trying to object to executions? 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Posts: 41,359
    oftenreading said:
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    So are you trying to argue that they should be compelled to allow their drugs to be used for executions with the argument that this will avoid suffering? You’re taking the utilitarian stance that it’s going to happen anyway and there’s no point in trying to object to executions? 
    I don't object to executions if done properly.  I am to the point though where the red tape that it causes just isn't worth it to the tax payer anymore.
  • Posts: 30,879
    tempo_n_groove said:
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    I don't object to executions if done properly.  I am to the point though where the red tape that it causes just isn't worth it to the tax payer anymore.
    And that whole "the guy is actually innocent thing" too.  I mean yeah it's a hassle and a cost to the taxpayer.  Those are the primary concerns.  But somewhere around concern #31, the person might be innocent.  So yeah...
  • Posts: 41,359
    mrussel1 said:
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    And that whole "the guy is actually innocent thing" too.  I mean yeah it's a hassle and a cost to the taxpayer.  Those are the primary concerns.  But somewhere around concern #31, the person might be innocent.  So yeah...
    To be executed, for me, it has to be beyond a shadow of a doubt.  Film footage, heinous crime, multiple witness'.  
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