PPP (Paycheck Protection Program)

OffSheGoes35 · July 2020

Damn, vaggar's banned smiley looks better than his old avatar. How did he swing that?

Gern Blansten · July 2020

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.

Well.....like many other "businesses" they likely had other ways to pay them. I won't fault them for utilizing a program that they qualified for. I got a PPP loan and arguably didn't need it.

The problem isn't so much with the businesses that obtained the loans...it's that the gov't left the repayment provisions so open ended that it's free money.

That’s kind of what I was getting at. I’m just wondering why it was easier to give money to millionaires and their companies than it was to give it directly to people put out of work and needed the money the most.

I agree. I think the they should have funded massive stimulus payments directly to the citizens instead of this ridiculous exercise of going through the bank/SBA, etc.

I don't know.. I'm just thinking about incentives. This program incentivized companies to keep people on the payroll and keep business moving, even in limited fashion. It kept the business afloat. If it was done the way you suggested, think about the millions of small businesses that would ahve closed their doors, defaulted on loans, never to reopen again. And now the credit is bad (many use personal assets to secure small business loans) so they can't restart a business. Now the gov't is paying people not to work, and there are no jobs to go back to when things improve. I think this was actually a pretty smart program.

It’s way better than sending out $ directly to people. I’ll have to search for the article that talked about countries doing more of this ended up with a lot less unemployment.

But the PPP just temporarily keeps people off unemployment. As soon as the 2.5 months of payroll runs out then a lot of people will get the axe. The jobs numbers that tRump was so proud of last month likely related to people being retained with PPP funds. When those funds run out this month we will likely see much different figures for July/August.

Again....I think the PPP was a great idea for businesses that had to shut down. I just don't think it makes sense to give it to businesses that didn't shut down. It's free money.

F Me In The Brain · July 2020

It prevented layoffs and if businesses used it to stop from layoffs (as my company did) I think it is a good thing.
If businesses are doing fine then it is fucked up and they should not see the loans forgiven.

Gern Blansten · July 2020

F Me In The Brain said:

It prevented layoffs and if businesses used it to stop from layoffs (as my company did) I think it is a good thing.
If businesses are doing fine then it is fucked up and they should not see the loans forgiven.

Agreed...but I guess my point is that if there was no PPP then employees would have received the direct stimulus or expanded unemployment benefits rather than getting gov't assistance via their employers.

JimmyV · July 2020

Everyone on our staff (a small non-profit) has been paid and remains employed in large part due to PPP. Without it we almost certainly would have had to lay some people off. I have no problem with it benefiting businesses of different shapes and sizes.

mrussel1 · July 2020

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.

Well.....like many other "businesses" they likely had other ways to pay them. I won't fault them for utilizing a program that they qualified for. I got a PPP loan and arguably didn't need it.

The problem isn't so much with the businesses that obtained the loans...it's that the gov't left the repayment provisions so open ended that it's free money.

That’s kind of what I was getting at. I’m just wondering why it was easier to give money to millionaires and their companies than it was to give it directly to people put out of work and needed the money the most.

I agree. I think the they should have funded massive stimulus payments directly to the citizens instead of this ridiculous exercise of going through the bank/SBA, etc.

I don't know.. I'm just thinking about incentives. This program incentivized companies to keep people on the payroll and keep business moving, even in limited fashion. It kept the business afloat. If it was done the way you suggested, think about the millions of small businesses that would ahve closed their doors, defaulted on loans, never to reopen again. And now the credit is bad (many use personal assets to secure small business loans) so they can't restart a business. Now the gov't is paying people not to work, and there are no jobs to go back to when things improve. I think this was actually a pretty smart program.

It’s way better than sending out $ directly to people. I’ll have to search for the article that talked about countries doing more of this ended up with a lot less unemployment.

But the PPP just temporarily keeps people off unemployment. As soon as the 2.5 months of payroll runs out then a lot of people will get the axe. The jobs numbers that tRump was so proud of last month likely related to people being retained with PPP funds. When those funds run out this month we will likely see much different figures for July/August.

Again....I think the PPP was a great idea for businesses that had to shut down. I just don't think it makes sense to give it to businesses that didn't shut down. It's free money.

I would hope/expect an extension if the unemployment continues.

F Me In The Brain · July 2020

Gern Blansten said:

F Me In The Brain said:

It prevented layoffs and if businesses used it to stop from layoffs (as my company did) I think it is a good thing.
If businesses are doing fine then it is fucked up and they should not see the loans forgiven.

Agreed...but I guess my point is that if there was no PPP then employees would have received the direct stimulus or expanded unemployment benefits rather than getting gov't assistance via their employers.

Yep but what about when the expanded benefits end....aren't they doing that in July?

Gern Blansten · July 2020

F Me In The Brain said:

Gern Blansten said:

F Me In The Brain said:

It prevented layoffs and if businesses used it to stop from layoffs (as my company did) I think it is a good thing.
If businesses are doing fine then it is fucked up and they should not see the loans forgiven.

Agreed...but I guess my point is that if there was no PPP then employees would have received the direct stimulus or expanded unemployment benefits rather than getting gov't assistance via their employers.

Yep but what about when the expanded benefits end....aren't they doing that in July?

End of July I believe

mrussel1 · July 2020

Gern Blansten said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Gern Blansten said:

F Me In The Brain said:

It prevented layoffs and if businesses used it to stop from layoffs (as my company did) I think it is a good thing.
If businesses are doing fine then it is fucked up and they should not see the loans forgiven.

Agreed...but I guess my point is that if there was no PPP then employees would have received the direct stimulus or expanded unemployment benefits rather than getting gov't assistance via their employers.

Yep but what about when the expanded benefits end....aren't they doing that in July?

End of July I believe

Expanded unemployment benefits expire on the 31st. That's separate from PPP.

I think the ppp targeted 8 weeks of payroll. I heard there are billions left unused, so hopefully an extension will be coming.

Gern Blansten · July 2020

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Gern Blansten said:

F Me In The Brain said:

It prevented layoffs and if businesses used it to stop from layoffs (as my company did) I think it is a good thing.
If businesses are doing fine then it is fucked up and they should not see the loans forgiven.

Agreed...but I guess my point is that if there was no PPP then employees would have received the direct stimulus or expanded unemployment benefits rather than getting gov't assistance via their employers.

Yep but what about when the expanded benefits end....aren't they doing that in July?

End of July I believe

Expanded unemployment benefits expire on the 31st. That's separate from PPP.

I think the ppp targeted 8 weeks of payroll. I heard there are billions left unused, so hopefully an extension will be coming.

Yes a banker told us around $100B left as of yesterday....

So...if anyone here is self employed you should apply ASAP. Net income of $40K gets you a $8,333 PPP loan

mrussel1 · July 2020

I love that the Ayn Rand Institute took PPP money. Of course they use the same old "we're entitled to it, we paid into it" argument. Still hilariously ironic. https://newideal.aynrand.org/we-took-ppp-funds-and-would-do-it-again/

Gern Blansten · July 2020

It sure as hell is...

mickeyrat · February 2021

https://apnews.com/article/catholic-church-get-aid-investigation-39a404f55c82fea84902cd16f04e37b2

When the coronavirus forced churches to close their doors and give up Sunday collections, the Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte turned to the federal government’s signature small business relief program for more than $8 million. The diocese’s headquarters, churches and schools landed the help even though they had roughly $100 million of their own cash and short-term investments available last spring, financial records show. When the cash catastrophe church leaders feared didn’t materialize, those assets topped $110 million by the summer. “I am gratified to report the overall good financial health of the diocese despite the many difficulties presented by the Covid-19 pandemic,” Bishop Peter Jugis wrote in the diocese’s audited financial report released last fall. As the pandemic began to unfold, scores of Catholic dioceses across the U.S. received aid through the Paycheck Protection Program while sitting on well over $10 billion in cash, short-term investments or other available funds, an Associated Press investigation has found. And despite the broad economic downturn, these assets have grown in many dioceses. Yet even with that financial safety net, the 112 dioceses that shared their financial statements, along with the churches and schools they oversee, collected at least $1.5 billion in taxpayer-backed aid. A majority of these dioceses reported enough money on hand to cover at least six months of operating expenses, even without any new income. The financial resources of several dioceses rivaled or exceeded those available to publicly traded companies like Shake Shack and Ruth’s Chris Steak House, whose early participation in the program triggered outrage. Federal officials responded by emphasizing the money was intended for those who lacked the cushion that cash and other liquidity provide. Many corporations returned the funds.

continues......

Gern Blansten · February 2021

I have a real hard time listening to the GOP bitch about stimulus payments possibly going to lower income people that might not "need" it when they gave out billions in PPP funds to businesses that didn't necessarily need it.

I've seen several examples first hand and can admit that I benefitted greatly from PPP funds.

cincybearcat · February 2021

Gern Blansten said:

I have a real hard time listening to the GOP bitch about stimulus payments possibly going to lower income people that might not "need" it when they gave out billions in PPP funds to businesses that didn't necessarily need it.

I've seen several examples first hand and can admit that I benefitted greatly from PPP funds.

Yeah I can see that. What sucks is anyone not needing it getting it. So while they were wrong for certain before, doesn’t mean some of what they are saying isn’t right now.

rgambs · February 2021

Gern Blansten said:

I have a real hard time listening to the GOP bitch about stimulus payments possibly going to lower income people that might not "need" it when they gave out billions in PPP funds to businesses that didn't necessarily need it.

I've seen several examples first hand and can admit that I benefitted greatly from PPP funds.

We came out ahead as well, when all was said and done.
At the time we had no idea how everything was going to play out and whether or not we could recover the lost revenue. We are a TRUE small business that serves our community...4 employees under one roof.
Our loan was very small compared to most, not even 20,000$, and we were closed and not generating revenue. The fast food franchise down the street never closed, they had lines around the building through the entire shutdown and they received several times more money than us to cover payroll for employees that were still working and generating revenue at only slightly reduced (if at all) rates.

So with those factors considered, we don't feel bad about taking the funds even though we ended up recovering the lost revenue. We feel like we are exactly the situation the PPP was created for and we are just lucky that things worked out when they could have swung the other way.

rgambs · February 2021

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I have a real hard time listening to the GOP bitch about stimulus payments possibly going to lower income people that might not "need" it when they gave out billions in PPP funds to businesses that didn't necessarily need it.

I've seen several examples first hand and can admit that I benefitted greatly from PPP funds.

Yeah I can see that. What sucks is anyone not needing it getting it. So while there were wrong for certain before, doesn’t mean some of what they are saying isn’t right now.

That is sort of the GOP in a nutshell, when they are wrong it's intolerably disgusting, and when they are right it's still intolerably disgusting lol

rgambs · February 2021

It does suck that people who haven't lost income have gotten a few thousand dollars beyond what they needed and those who HAVE lost income have gotten several thousand less than what they needed, but the solution is just beyond our broken government.

What we do know is that stimulus payments definitely boost the economy, there's no doubt about that.
Shit, my brother is poor as fuck, disabled without disability, living in section 8 on food stamps...what did they do with the second stimulus? Bought a new TV! People who aren't used to having spending cash spend it up immediately when they get some. In fairness, their TV was shot and they did need a new one, but the point is still obvious.

JeBurkhardt · February 2021

rgambs said:

It does suck that people who haven't lost income have gotten a few thousand dollars beyond what they needed and those who HAVE lost income have gotten several thousand less than what they needed, but the solution is just beyond our broken government.

What we do know is that stimulus payments definitely boost the economy, there's no doubt about that.
Shit, my brother is poor as fuck, disabled without disability, living in section 8 on food stamps...what did they do with the second stimulus? Bought a new TV! People who aren't used to having spending cash spend it up immediately when they get some. In fairness, their TV was shot and they did need a new one, but the point is still obvious.

Years ago I was getting a new tattoo in the late Spring. While I was there, a man along with his wife and late teen son were all getting multiple tattoos. We got to talking and he was using the money from his tax return, which included the extra earned income tax credit money, to get well over $1000 worth of ink. At least your Brother got to watch TV afterwards. 🤷‍♂️

Gern Blansten · February 2021

rgambs said:

It does suck that people who haven't lost income have gotten a few thousand dollars beyond what they needed and those who HAVE lost income have gotten several thousand less than what they needed, but the solution is just beyond our broken government.

What we do know is that stimulus payments definitely boost the economy, there's no doubt about that.
Shit, my brother is poor as fuck, disabled without disability, living in section 8 on food stamps...what did they do with the second stimulus? Bought a new TV! People who aren't used to having spending cash spend it up immediately when they get some. In fairness, their TV was shot and they did need a new one, but the point is still obvious.

Totally agree....that was kind of the point I meant to make earlier. And I don't fault anyone for taking the PPP at all...I took it and I had my wife take this latest round of PPP because her business qualified. It's just amazing to me that the GOP (and the tRumpsters I see on my FB feed) are so adamant that the $2,000 stimulus or increased unemployment is a waste of money yet they gave me $55K that I didn't need. And yes, at the time we had no idea what was coming.

I have a client that owns three restaurants in three different cities. He got roughly $100K per restaurant in PPP. Unbelievably all three restaurants had similar revenue in 2020 as 2019. That's $300K in his pocket that he technically didn't need (in hindsight) and it's tax free.

Unfuckingbelievable.

And yes, I would have taken that all day long. I'm not criticizing the participants....just the hypocrisy.

PPP (Paycheck Protection Program)

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