As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
No other way to pay them? When some big restaurant chains received them there was outrage that these were meant for small businesses. I don’t see the difference. Any money that went to PJ or GnR etc, was less money to go around to other businesses that legitimately had no other way to pay employees. I think it’s ridiculous
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
No other way to pay them? When some big restaurant chains received them there was outrage that these were meant for small businesses. I don’t see the difference. Any money that went to PJ or GnR etc, was less money to go around to other businesses that legitimately had no other way to pay employees. I think it’s ridiculous
That's not really true. The program just opened for round three with around $100 billion left in it. I probably did 40 applications for the first round....a handful for the second and one today for round 3.
Pretty much anyone that can apply should be able to get funds.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
The issue I see is that businesses that were affected the worst (restaurants, etc.) are prevented from applying for additional funds. Hopefully that is something they fix with the next relief package.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
No other way to pay them? When some big restaurant chains received them there was outrage that these were meant for small businesses. I don’t see the difference. Any money that went to PJ or GnR etc, was less money to go around to other businesses that legitimately had no other way to pay employees. I think it’s ridiculous
PPP was designed for small businesses. I think the number was less than 500 employees. PJ does not have that many employees. Big, public restaurant chains were not intended to receive these loans.
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
Well.....like many other "businesses" they likely had other ways to pay them. I won't fault them for utilizing a program that they qualified for. I got a PPP loan and arguably didn't need it.
The problem isn't so much with the businesses that obtained the loans...it's that the gov't left the repayment provisions so open ended that it's free money.
That’s kind of what I was getting at. I’m just wondering why it was easier to give money to millionaires and their companies than it was to give it directly to people put out of work and needed the money the most.
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
No other way to pay them? When some big restaurant chains received them there was outrage that these were meant for small businesses. I don’t see the difference. Any money that went to PJ or GnR etc, was less money to go around to other businesses that legitimately had no other way to pay employees. I think it’s ridiculous
PPP was designed for small businesses. I think the number was less than 500 employees. PJ does not have that many employees. Big, public restaurant chains were not intended to receive these loans.
Ok. I disagree. PJ needed the loan? Cmon. GnR needed it? To me it’s ridiculous.
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
No other way to pay them? When some big restaurant chains received them there was outrage that these were meant for small businesses. I don’t see the difference. Any money that went to PJ or GnR etc, was less money to go around to other businesses that legitimately had no other way to pay employees. I think it’s ridiculous
PPP was designed for small businesses. I think the number was less than 500 employees. PJ does not have that many employees. Big, public restaurant chains were not intended to receive these loans.
Ok. I disagree. PJ needed the loan? Cmon. GnR needed it? To me it’s ridiculous.
My guess is PJ the corporation needed the loan. The band members did not need the loan. It's not like their personal assets are tied up in the corporation. Remember they have people on the sideline this year, that will need to work next year with no ticket revenue (or vice versa). If I were them, I would retain these ticket sales for salaries next year, and use the PPP for the missed tour this year.
PJ aren't free market capitalists. I don't draw a distinction between their corp taking the money and any other small business taking money where the owner is wealthy (which would be many of the businesses that took money).
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
No other way to pay them? When some big restaurant chains received them there was outrage that these were meant for small businesses. I don’t see the difference. Any money that went to PJ or GnR etc, was less money to go around to other businesses that legitimately had no other way to pay employees. I think it’s ridiculous
PPP was designed for small businesses. I think the number was less than 500 employees. PJ does not have that many employees. Big, public restaurant chains were not intended to receive these loans.
Ok. I disagree. PJ needed the loan? Cmon. GnR needed it? To me it’s ridiculous.
My guess is PJ the corporation needed the loan. The band members did not need the loan. It's not like their personal assets are tied up in the corporation. Remember they have people on the sideline this year, that will need to work next year with no ticket revenue (or vice versa). If I were them, I would retain these ticket sales for salaries next year, and use the PPP for the missed tour this year.
PJ aren't free market capitalists. I don't draw a distinction between their corp taking the money and any other small business taking money where the owner is wealthy (which would be many of the businesses that took money).
Very thoughtful way to look at it. Thank you. I still feel that they had ways of making income during the pandemic with merch which they could have used to pay their crew. NIN, Deftones did that. It’s just not a great look imo.
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
No other way to pay them? When some big restaurant chains received them there was outrage that these were meant for small businesses. I don’t see the difference. Any money that went to PJ or GnR etc, was less money to go around to other businesses that legitimately had no other way to pay employees. I think it’s ridiculous
PPP was designed for small businesses. I think the number was less than 500 employees. PJ does not have that many employees. Big, public restaurant chains were not intended to receive these loans.
Ok. I disagree. PJ needed the loan? Cmon. GnR needed it? To me it’s ridiculous.
My guess is PJ the corporation needed the loan. The band members did not need the loan. It's not like their personal assets are tied up in the corporation. Remember they have people on the sideline this year, that will need to work next year with no ticket revenue (or vice versa). If I were them, I would retain these ticket sales for salaries next year, and use the PPP for the missed tour this year.
PJ aren't free market capitalists. I don't draw a distinction between their corp taking the money and any other small business taking money where the owner is wealthy (which would be many of the businesses that took money).
Very thoughtful way to look at it. Thank you. I still feel that they had ways of making income during the pandemic with merch which they could have used to pay their crew. NIN, Deftones did that. It’s just not a great look imo.
Did those two bands have tours planned and people lined up to support it? If they did and still paid the crew without the tour revenue, then good for them. I see that as going way above and beyond.
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
No other way to pay them? When some big restaurant chains received them there was outrage that these were meant for small businesses. I don’t see the difference. Any money that went to PJ or GnR etc, was less money to go around to other businesses that legitimately had no other way to pay employees. I think it’s ridiculous
PPP was designed for small businesses. I think the number was less than 500 employees. PJ does not have that many employees. Big, public restaurant chains were not intended to receive these loans.
Ok. I disagree. PJ needed the loan? Cmon. GnR needed it? To me it’s ridiculous.
My guess is PJ the corporation needed the loan. The band members did not need the loan. It's not like their personal assets are tied up in the corporation. Remember they have people on the sideline this year, that will need to work next year with no ticket revenue (or vice versa). If I were them, I would retain these ticket sales for salaries next year, and use the PPP for the missed tour this year.
PJ aren't free market capitalists. I don't draw a distinction between their corp taking the money and any other small business taking money where the owner is wealthy (which would be many of the businesses that took money).
Very thoughtful way to look at it. Thank you. I still feel that they had ways of making income during the pandemic with merch which they could have used to pay their crew. NIN, Deftones did that. It’s just not a great look imo.
Did those two bands have tours planned and people lined up to support it? If they did and still paid the crew without the tour revenue, then good for them. I see that as going way above and beyond.
Can a band start up a tour next year with no employees and no money? How is live nation getting by?
Most businesses are now open. Restaurants were screaming a few months ago but they were allowed to stay open throughout the brief shutdown with delivery and curbside pickup. But rock bands have zero revenue until arenas and theaters can be full again, which could be well over a year away. Yes the band itself has money but how big of a crew does it take to put on a tour? 50? 75? How are any of those workers going to survive 18 to 24 months with no touring?
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
No other way to pay them? When some big restaurant chains received them there was outrage that these were meant for small businesses. I don’t see the difference. Any money that went to PJ or GnR etc, was less money to go around to other businesses that legitimately had no other way to pay employees. I think it’s ridiculous
PPP was designed for small businesses. I think the number was less than 500 employees. PJ does not have that many employees. Big, public restaurant chains were not intended to receive these loans.
Ok. I disagree. PJ needed the loan? Cmon. GnR needed it? To me it’s ridiculous.
My guess is PJ the corporation needed the loan. The band members did not need the loan. It's not like their personal assets are tied up in the corporation. Remember they have people on the sideline this year, that will need to work next year with no ticket revenue (or vice versa). If I were them, I would retain these ticket sales for salaries next year, and use the PPP for the missed tour this year.
PJ aren't free market capitalists. I don't draw a distinction between their corp taking the money and any other small business taking money where the owner is wealthy (which would be many of the businesses that took money).
Very thoughtful way to look at it. Thank you. I still feel that they had ways of making income during the pandemic with merch which they could have used to pay their crew. NIN, Deftones did that. It’s just not a great look imo.
Did those two bands have tours planned and people lined up to support it? If they did and still paid the crew without the tour revenue, then good for them. I see that as going way above and beyond.
I can’t comment on specifics beyond the fact that both bands had tours planned this year with supporting acts.
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
No other way to pay them? When some big restaurant chains received them there was outrage that these were meant for small businesses. I don’t see the difference. Any money that went to PJ or GnR etc, was less money to go around to other businesses that legitimately had no other way to pay employees. I think it’s ridiculous
PPP was designed for small businesses. I think the number was less than 500 employees. PJ does not have that many employees. Big, public restaurant chains were not intended to receive these loans.
Ok. I disagree. PJ needed the loan? Cmon. GnR needed it? To me it’s ridiculous.
My guess is PJ the corporation needed the loan. The band members did not need the loan. It's not like their personal assets are tied up in the corporation. Remember they have people on the sideline this year, that will need to work next year with no ticket revenue (or vice versa). If I were them, I would retain these ticket sales for salaries next year, and use the PPP for the missed tour this year.
PJ aren't free market capitalists. I don't draw a distinction between their corp taking the money and any other small business taking money where the owner is wealthy (which would be many of the businesses that took money).
Very thoughtful way to look at it. Thank you. I still feel that they had ways of making income during the pandemic with merch which they could have used to pay their crew. NIN, Deftones did that. It’s just not a great look imo.
Did those two bands have tours planned and people lined up to support it? If they did and still paid the crew without the tour revenue, then good for them. I see that as going way above and beyond.
Can a band start up a tour next year with no employees and no money? How is live nation getting by?
Most businesses are now open. Restaurants were screaming a few months ago but they were allowed to stay open throughout the brief shutdown with delivery and curbside pickup. But rock bands have zero revenue until arenas and theaters can be full again, which could be well over a year away. Yes the band itself has money but how big of a crew does it take to put on a tour? 50? 75? How are any of those workers going to survive 18 to 24 months with no touring?
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
Well.....like many other "businesses" they likely had other ways to pay them. I won't fault them for utilizing a program that they qualified for. I got a PPP loan and arguably didn't need it.
The problem isn't so much with the businesses that obtained the loans...it's that the gov't left the repayment provisions so open ended that it's free money.
That’s kind of what I was getting at. I’m just wondering why it was easier to give money to millionaires and their companies than it was to give it directly to people put out of work and needed the money the most.
I agree. I think the they should have funded massive stimulus payments directly to the citizens instead of this ridiculous exercise of going through the bank/SBA, etc.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
Well.....like many other "businesses" they likely had other ways to pay them. I won't fault them for utilizing a program that they qualified for. I got a PPP loan and arguably didn't need it.
The problem isn't so much with the businesses that obtained the loans...it's that the gov't left the repayment provisions so open ended that it's free money.
That’s kind of what I was getting at. I’m just wondering why it was easier to give money to millionaires and their companies than it was to give it directly to people put out of work and needed the money the most.
I agree. I think the they should have funded massive stimulus payments directly to the citizens instead of this ridiculous exercise of going through the bank/SBA, etc.
I don't know.. I'm just thinking about incentives. This program incentivized companies to keep people on the payroll and keep business moving, even in limited fashion. It kept the business afloat. If it was done the way you suggested, think about the millions of small businesses that would ahve closed their doors, defaulted on loans, never to reopen again. And now the credit is bad (many use personal assets to secure small business loans) so they can't restart a business. Now the gov't is paying people not to work, and there are no jobs to go back to when things improve. I think this was actually a pretty smart program.
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
Well.....like many other "businesses" they likely had other ways to pay them. I won't fault them for utilizing a program that they qualified for. I got a PPP loan and arguably didn't need it.
The problem isn't so much with the businesses that obtained the loans...it's that the gov't left the repayment provisions so open ended that it's free money.
That’s kind of what I was getting at. I’m just wondering why it was easier to give money to millionaires and their companies than it was to give it directly to people put out of work and needed the money the most.
I agree. I think the they should have funded massive stimulus payments directly to the citizens instead of this ridiculous exercise of going through the bank/SBA, etc.
I don't know.. I'm just thinking about incentives. This program incentivized companies to keep people on the payroll and keep business moving, even in limited fashion. It kept the business afloat. If it was done the way you suggested, think about the millions of small businesses that would ahve closed their doors, defaulted on loans, never to reopen again. And now the credit is bad (many use personal assets to secure small business loans) so they can't restart a business. Now the gov't is paying people not to work, and there are no jobs to go back to when things improve. I think this was actually a pretty smart program.
Right but if the people are receiving the stimulus directly then the business owner doesn't have the payroll expense if they need to shut down.
I just had a trucking client get $700K in PPP....they didn't need it. They have been busier than they have ever been....without it their employees would still be making the same amounts. A lot of these funds went straight to the owners....like me.
Edit: I like the idea of the program....I just think there should have been parameters for repayment that addressed decline in revenue.
Post edited by Gern Blansten on
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
No other way to pay them? When some big restaurant chains received them there was outrage that these were meant for small businesses. I don’t see the difference. Any money that went to PJ or GnR etc, was less money to go around to other businesses that legitimately had no other way to pay employees. I think it’s ridiculous
PPP was designed for small businesses. I think the number was less than 500 employees. PJ does not have that many employees. Big, public restaurant chains were not intended to receive these loans.
Ok. I disagree. PJ needed the loan? Cmon. GnR needed it? To me it’s ridiculous.
My guess is PJ the corporation needed the loan. The band members did not need the loan. It's not like their personal assets are tied up in the corporation. Remember they have people on the sideline this year, that will need to work next year with no ticket revenue (or vice versa). If I were them, I would retain these ticket sales for salaries next year, and use the PPP for the missed tour this year.
PJ aren't free market capitalists. I don't draw a distinction between their corp taking the money and any other small business taking money where the owner is wealthy (which would be many of the businesses that took money).
Very thoughtful way to look at it. Thank you. I still feel that they had ways of making income during the pandemic with merch which they could have used to pay their crew. NIN, Deftones did that. It’s just not a great look imo.
Did those two bands have tours planned and people lined up to support it? If they did and still paid the crew without the tour revenue, then good for them. I see that as going way above and beyond.
Can a band start up a tour next year with no employees and no money? How is live nation getting by?
Most businesses are now open. Restaurants were screaming a few months ago but they were allowed to stay open throughout the brief shutdown with delivery and curbside pickup. But rock bands have zero revenue until arenas and theaters can be full again, which could be well over a year away. Yes the band itself has money but how big of a crew does it take to put on a tour? 50? 75? How are any of those workers going to survive 18 to 24 months with no touring?
Zero revenue? I wouldnt say that.
How much money are the tour personnel generating? Is there any money in streaming? Do bands even break even on albums or is a project like Gigaton done on a negative cash flow? How much merch is moving without touring?
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
No other way to pay them? When some big restaurant chains received them there was outrage that these were meant for small businesses. I don’t see the difference. Any money that went to PJ or GnR etc, was less money to go around to other businesses that legitimately had no other way to pay employees. I think it’s ridiculous
PPP was designed for small businesses. I think the number was less than 500 employees. PJ does not have that many employees. Big, public restaurant chains were not intended to receive these loans.
Ok. I disagree. PJ needed the loan? Cmon. GnR needed it? To me it’s ridiculous.
My guess is PJ the corporation needed the loan. The band members did not need the loan. It's not like their personal assets are tied up in the corporation. Remember they have people on the sideline this year, that will need to work next year with no ticket revenue (or vice versa). If I were them, I would retain these ticket sales for salaries next year, and use the PPP for the missed tour this year.
PJ aren't free market capitalists. I don't draw a distinction between their corp taking the money and any other small business taking money where the owner is wealthy (which would be many of the businesses that took money).
Very thoughtful way to look at it. Thank you. I still feel that they had ways of making income during the pandemic with merch which they could have used to pay their crew. NIN, Deftones did that. It’s just not a great look imo.
Did those two bands have tours planned and people lined up to support it? If they did and still paid the crew without the tour revenue, then good for them. I see that as going way above and beyond.
Can a band start up a tour next year with no employees and no money? How is live nation getting by?
Most businesses are now open. Restaurants were screaming a few months ago but they were allowed to stay open throughout the brief shutdown with delivery and curbside pickup. But rock bands have zero revenue until arenas and theaters can be full again, which could be well over a year away. Yes the band itself has money but how big of a crew does it take to put on a tour? 50? 75? How are any of those workers going to survive 18 to 24 months with no touring?
Zero revenue? I wouldnt say that.
How much money are the tour personnel generating? Is there any money in streaming? Do bands even break even on albums or is a project like Gigaton done on a negative cash flow? How much merch is moving without touring?
I wonder what the arena deposit amounts are and how much might be forfeited due to the band canceling? Full deposit or a %? Or no penalty?
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
Well.....like many other "businesses" they likely had other ways to pay them. I won't fault them for utilizing a program that they qualified for. I got a PPP loan and arguably didn't need it.
The problem isn't so much with the businesses that obtained the loans...it's that the gov't left the repayment provisions so open ended that it's free money.
That’s kind of what I was getting at. I’m just wondering why it was easier to give money to millionaires and their companies than it was to give it directly to people put out of work and needed the money the most.
I agree. I think the they should have funded massive stimulus payments directly to the citizens instead of this ridiculous exercise of going through the bank/SBA, etc.
I don't know.. I'm just thinking about incentives. This program incentivized companies to keep people on the payroll and keep business moving, even in limited fashion. It kept the business afloat. If it was done the way you suggested, think about the millions of small businesses that would ahve closed their doors, defaulted on loans, never to reopen again. And now the credit is bad (many use personal assets to secure small business loans) so they can't restart a business. Now the gov't is paying people not to work, and there are no jobs to go back to when things improve. I think this was actually a pretty smart program.
It’s way better than sending out $ directly to people. I’ll have to search for the article that talked about countries doing more of this ended up with a lot less unemployment.
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
Well.....like many other "businesses" they likely had other ways to pay them. I won't fault them for utilizing a program that they qualified for. I got a PPP loan and arguably didn't need it.
The problem isn't so much with the businesses that obtained the loans...it's that the gov't left the repayment provisions so open ended that it's free money.
That’s kind of what I was getting at. I’m just wondering why it was easier to give money to millionaires and their companies than it was to give it directly to people put out of work and needed the money the most.
I agree. I think the they should have funded massive stimulus payments directly to the citizens instead of this ridiculous exercise of going through the bank/SBA, etc.
I don't know.. I'm just thinking about incentives. This program incentivized companies to keep people on the payroll and keep business moving, even in limited fashion. It kept the business afloat. If it was done the way you suggested, think about the millions of small businesses that would ahve closed their doors, defaulted on loans, never to reopen again. And now the credit is bad (many use personal assets to secure small business loans) so they can't restart a business. Now the gov't is paying people not to work, and there are no jobs to go back to when things improve. I think this was actually a pretty smart program.
It’s way better than sending out $ directly to people. I’ll have to search for the article that talked about countries doing more of this ended up with a lot less unemployment.
But the PPP just temporarily keeps people off unemployment. As soon as the 2.5 months of payroll runs out then a lot of people will get the axe. The jobs numbers that tRump was so proud of last month likely related to people being retained with PPP funds. When those funds run out this month we will likely see much different figures for July/August.
Again....I think the PPP was a great idea for businesses that had to shut down. I just don't think it makes sense to give it to businesses that didn't shut down. It's free money.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
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It prevented layoffs and if businesses used it to stop from layoffs (as my company did) I think it is a good thing. If businesses are doing fine then it is fucked up and they should not see the loans forgiven.
It prevented layoffs and if businesses used it to stop from layoffs (as my company did) I think it is a good thing. If businesses are doing fine then it is fucked up and they should not see the loans forgiven.
Agreed...but I guess my point is that if there was no PPP then employees would have received the direct stimulus or expanded unemployment benefits rather than getting gov't assistance via their employers.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Everyone on our staff (a small non-profit) has been paid and remains employed in large part due to PPP. Without it we almost certainly would have had to lay some people off. I have no problem with it benefiting businesses of different shapes and sizes.
As long as they used it to pay their people and they had no other way to pay them I’m good.
Well.....like many other "businesses" they likely had other ways to pay them. I won't fault them for utilizing a program that they qualified for. I got a PPP loan and arguably didn't need it.
The problem isn't so much with the businesses that obtained the loans...it's that the gov't left the repayment provisions so open ended that it's free money.
That’s kind of what I was getting at. I’m just wondering why it was easier to give money to millionaires and their companies than it was to give it directly to people put out of work and needed the money the most.
I agree. I think the they should have funded massive stimulus payments directly to the citizens instead of this ridiculous exercise of going through the bank/SBA, etc.
I don't know.. I'm just thinking about incentives. This program incentivized companies to keep people on the payroll and keep business moving, even in limited fashion. It kept the business afloat. If it was done the way you suggested, think about the millions of small businesses that would ahve closed their doors, defaulted on loans, never to reopen again. And now the credit is bad (many use personal assets to secure small business loans) so they can't restart a business. Now the gov't is paying people not to work, and there are no jobs to go back to when things improve. I think this was actually a pretty smart program.
It’s way better than sending out $ directly to people. I’ll have to search for the article that talked about countries doing more of this ended up with a lot less unemployment.
But the PPP just temporarily keeps people off unemployment. As soon as the 2.5 months of payroll runs out then a lot of people will get the axe. The jobs numbers that tRump was so proud of last month likely related to people being retained with PPP funds. When those funds run out this month we will likely see much different figures for July/August.
Again....I think the PPP was a great idea for businesses that had to shut down. I just don't think it makes sense to give it to businesses that didn't shut down. It's free money.
I would hope/expect an extension if the unemployment continues.
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,625
It prevented layoffs and if businesses used it to stop from layoffs (as my company did) I think it is a good thing. If businesses are doing fine then it is fucked up and they should not see the loans forgiven.
Agreed...but I guess my point is that if there was no PPP then employees would have received the direct stimulus or expanded unemployment benefits rather than getting gov't assistance via their employers.
Yep but what about when the expanded benefits end....aren't they doing that in July?
It prevented layoffs and if businesses used it to stop from layoffs (as my company did) I think it is a good thing. If businesses are doing fine then it is fucked up and they should not see the loans forgiven.
Agreed...but I guess my point is that if there was no PPP then employees would have received the direct stimulus or expanded unemployment benefits rather than getting gov't assistance via their employers.
Yep but what about when the expanded benefits end....aren't they doing that in July?
End of July I believe
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
It prevented layoffs and if businesses used it to stop from layoffs (as my company did) I think it is a good thing. If businesses are doing fine then it is fucked up and they should not see the loans forgiven.
Agreed...but I guess my point is that if there was no PPP then employees would have received the direct stimulus or expanded unemployment benefits rather than getting gov't assistance via their employers.
Yep but what about when the expanded benefits end....aren't they doing that in July?
End of July I believe
Expanded unemployment benefits expire on the 31st. That's separate from PPP.
I think the ppp targeted 8 weeks of payroll. I heard there are billions left unused, so hopefully an extension will be coming.
It prevented layoffs and if businesses used it to stop from layoffs (as my company did) I think it is a good thing. If businesses are doing fine then it is fucked up and they should not see the loans forgiven.
Agreed...but I guess my point is that if there was no PPP then employees would have received the direct stimulus or expanded unemployment benefits rather than getting gov't assistance via their employers.
Yep but what about when the expanded benefits end....aren't they doing that in July?
End of July I believe
Expanded unemployment benefits expire on the 31st. That's separate from PPP.
I think the ppp targeted 8 weeks of payroll. I heard there are billions left unused, so hopefully an extension will be coming.
Yes a banker told us around $100B left as of yesterday....
So...if anyone here is self employed you should apply ASAP. Net income of $40K gets you a $8,333 PPP loan
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Comments
Pretty much anyone that can apply should be able to get funds.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
PJ aren't free market capitalists. I don't draw a distinction between their corp taking the money and any other small business taking money where the owner is wealthy (which would be many of the businesses that took money).
Most businesses are now open. Restaurants were screaming a few months ago but they were allowed to stay open throughout the brief shutdown with delivery and curbside pickup. But rock bands have zero revenue until arenas and theaters can be full again, which could be well over a year away. Yes the band itself has money but how big of a crew does it take to put on a tour? 50? 75? How are any of those workers going to survive 18 to 24 months with no touring?
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I just had a trucking client get $700K in PPP....they didn't need it. They have been busier than they have ever been....without it their employees would still be making the same amounts. A lot of these funds went straight to the owners....like me.
Edit: I like the idea of the program....I just think there should have been parameters for repayment that addressed decline in revenue.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Again....I think the PPP was a great idea for businesses that had to shut down. I just don't think it makes sense to give it to businesses that didn't shut down. It's free money.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
If businesses are doing fine then it is fucked up and they should not see the loans forgiven.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I think the ppp targeted 8 weeks of payroll. I heard there are billions left unused, so hopefully an extension will be coming.
So...if anyone here is self employed you should apply ASAP. Net income of $40K gets you a $8,333 PPP loan
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana