Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

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  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,855
    mace1229 said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    It is very interesting, perhaps it warrants its own topic? Especially six weeks before the election and it’s in the main election topic?
    I was going to tie it into if in fact the growth is due to immigration (which I don't believe it is) then whoever has better immigration reform would get my vote. That should be one of the top 2 or 3 topics in a candidate.  I doubt this country could support itself in 50 years, maybe much less, if we continue to grow at the rate we have been.

    I agree that is interesting especially how trump masterminded leveraging immigration as a political weapon.  Combine overpopulation  with the environmental stress we see in the west, four more years could be the death knell.
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,827
    edited September 2020
    We grew 30% from 1990 to now. If we grow another 30% in the next 30 years, we'd grow another 100 million to be at 430 million in 2050. The southwest is already at capacity. We already have power outages in the summer, already have water shortages, farmers will be overwhelmed. It can literally take 90 minutes to drive 15 miles in southern California. Imagine if we increase that population by 30%. I think the biggest impact for the environment is population, but that's rarely talked about. I don't see how this isn't a primary issue for most people, but its almost never talked about. I don't see there being universal healthcare, or a green deal, it'll be a collapse of a nation. 
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    Biden
    Lerxst1992 said:
    brianlux said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i saw yesterday that there are more millennials of voting age than there are boomers. this could be very, very bad for trump if they get motivated enough to turn out to vote.
    Yeah and RBG might be a spark
    Yes, Trump sees this as a lifeline, but it might create more of a wave.  

    It’s virtually a done deal. Dems are on TV with similar to these comments and please, we know the Rs laugh at us for thinking like this. It’s not a criticism, it’s a fact. They are pushing the norms and stealing Obama’s seat, then doing the opposite to benefit trumps ability to pick a judge,and laughing hysterically at us. If Dems aren’t ready to push the envelope in the senate if they win it, we will have 50 years of a conservative court.

    If Trump is re-elected, and Republican maintain Senate majority, and the court gets another conservative judge, it's all over as far as I can imagine.  I will completely divorce my things from all things political forever.  If Democrats aren't strong enough to end minority tyranny, we have no hope.  I never thought things would come to this.  There is still time, but Biden has to win and the Senate has to go Democrat.  We will know soon enough.

    Most importantly, Dems are ahead in the polls for President and senate. If they don’t take both it will be status quo the next two years , with a decent chance to flip the senate in 2022. So I’d say it’s important to stay with the cause until then if Biden wins but can’t take the senate with him this year

     it is huge to take the senate by 2022 if Biden wins. The way the smaller white states have rallied around trump, the senate will get more difficult for the democrats to win as time goes by (the senate election maps are slightly favorable to Dems 2020 and 2022)

    This is why it’s imperative the Dems be willing to do anything and everything that is not explicitly prohibited by the constitution. That’s how McConnell plays it, and if the Dems acquiesce when or if they are in power, the conservative court will be able to overturn any law it chooses for 40 plus years.

    I hadn't thought about 2022, L, so good point.  I don't mean to sound like a quitter- I'm not- but these last four years have left me in a What's It All About Alfie frame of mind. 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,135
    Way to go Bloomy! Just wait for the shit show at the polls in Flo Rida. No way repubs will let this slide.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/517522-bloomberg-pays-fines-for-32000-felons-in-florida-so-they-can-vote
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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Biden
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Way to go Bloomy! Just wait for the shit show at the polls in Flo Rida. No way repubs will let this slide.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/517522-bloomberg-pays-fines-for-32000-felons-in-florida-so-they-can-vote
    that's amazing. now, hopefully the actually vote. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,074
    Biden
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Way to go Bloomy! Just wait for the shit show at the polls in Flo Rida. No way repubs will let this slide.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/517522-bloomberg-pays-fines-for-32000-felons-in-florida-so-they-can-vote
    that's amazing. now, hopefully the actually vote. 
    And hopefully they all vote Blue
    Scio me nihil scire

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  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    Biden
    I told you guys Bloomy would come through. 

    I'd like some of that cash to be spent in PA though. 
    www.myspace.com
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,074
    Biden
    If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination.  By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    Biden
    static111 said:
    If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination.  By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
    There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical.  I'm one of them. 
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    edited September 2020
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination.  By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
    There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical.  I'm one of them. 
    There are also plenty of moderate independents. We are the ones who will largely determine the results of this election just like two years ago. 
    www.myspace.com
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,135
    static111 said:
    If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination.  By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
    The Bernie supporters are better served with Team Trump Treason as POTUS? Why wouldn’t they get behind Hillary and pressure her to give them what they wanted? Why do socialists think everything should be handed to them rather than rolling up their sleeves and doing the hard work within the party they allegedly ran in? Oh, never mind, it’s like every other so called “independent” that doesn’t want to do the dirty work and who run under the guise of belonging to either the repub or dem party.

    But anyway, how’s that spite party working out for Bernie and his followers now?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    Biden
    static111 said:
    If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination.  By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
    I do think he needs to proclaim that he's not a socialist, particularly when he's asked/accused. It's all silliness, but "socialism" and the culture wars (along, of course, with general Trump devotion) are all the GQP really has right now.  Biden needs to make clear that he's not a socialist, just like he makes clear on his commercial that rioting and looting are not protest and not OK.

    That said, "I beat the socialist" was pretty stupid. It looks like a taunt and perhaps could impact some of the hard-left that's thinking about softening their stance and voting for him.
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  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,055
    Biden
    last night trump called joe a communist AND a socialist. his base is too dumb to know that these are two different things, and someone cannot be both.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,074
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination.  By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
    There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical.  I'm one of them. 
    What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them.  You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump.  I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.  
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    edited September 2020
    Biden
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination.  By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
    There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical.  I'm one of them. 
    What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them.  You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump.  I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.  
    It was one election and that was just one of the many reasons HRC lost. The Bernie voters didn't mess things up in '18. Polling suggests Biden is doing fine with them this go around too. 
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  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,074
    edited September 2020
    Biden
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    static111 said:
    If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination.  By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
    The Bernie supporters are better served with Team Trump Treason as POTUS? Why wouldn’t they get behind Hillary and pressure her to give them what they wanted? Why do socialists think everything should be handed to them rather than rolling up their sleeves and doing the hard work within the party they allegedly ran in? Oh, never mind, it’s like every other so called “independent” that doesn’t want to do the dirty work and who run under the guise of belonging to either the repub or dem party.

    But anyway, how’s that spite party working out for Bernie and his followers now?
    Only spite I’ve been seeing seems to be coming from vote shamers. I mean vote shaming and ostracizing and ridiculing Sanders voters sure did win the election in’16...oh wait no that didn’t work.  As far as being better under Triple T I think there are a lot of people out there that really believe that no politician is going to help them.  You want hard work, earn those votes explain to people your vision your plans and how you will implement it.  People aren’t running for office politicians are, it’s their job to earn votes.  
    Post edited by static111 on
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,074
    Biden
    The Juggler said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination.  By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
    There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical.  I'm one of them. 
    What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them.  You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump.  I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.  
    It was one election and that was just one of the many reasons HRC lost. The Bernie voters didn't mess things up in '18. Polling suggests Biden is doing fine with them this go around too. 
    As far as I am concerned I agree Biden is doing much better, the problem isn’t me it is Bernie voters that will see this as an insult and taking their vote for granted. Could be a few could be several thousand.  The point is, why not just say “I’m not a socialist”, why throw the other guy under the bus.   If suddenly it’s all about throwing people under the bus let’s throw some Republican politicians under the bus, call out trump for being an idiot explain trump doesn’t even understand what he’s talking about.  There are about a million things that could have been said that wouldn’t alienate a large segment of potential Biden voters.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,135
    static111 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    static111 said:
    If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination.  By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
    The Bernie supporters are better served with Team Trump Treason as POTUS? Why wouldn’t they get behind Hillary and pressure her to give them what they wanted? Why do socialists think everything should be handed to them rather than rolling up their sleeves and doing the hard work within the party they allegedly ran in? Oh, never mind, it’s like every other so called “independent” that doesn’t want to do the dirty work and who run under the guise of belonging to either the repub or dem party.

    But anyway, how’s that spite party working out for Bernie and his followers now?
    Only spite I’ve been seeing seems to be coming from vote shamers. I mean vote shaming and ostracizing and ridiculing Sanders voters sure did win the election in’16...oh wait no that didn’t work
    You work with and within the party you allegedly support, not against it, to get your desired end result. You think AOC is going to stamp her feet and tell her followers to stay home? No, she's rolled up her sleeves and is doing the hard work required and moving the dems to the left, maybe not as quickly as the Bernie supporters would like but at least she's showing the grandpa's followers how to be an adult about it. Bernie supporters who stayed home or voted third party out of spite should be shamed. They own part of the current clusterfuck we're in.
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  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    Biden
    static111 said:
    The Juggler said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination.  By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
    There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical.  I'm one of them. 
    What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them.  You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump.  I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.  
    It was one election and that was just one of the many reasons HRC lost. The Bernie voters didn't mess things up in '18. Polling suggests Biden is doing fine with them this go around too. 
    As far as I am concerned I agree Biden is doing much better, the problem isn’t me it is Bernie voters that will see this as an insult and taking their vote for granted. Could be a few could be several thousand.  The point is, why not just say “I’m not a socialist”, why throw the other guy under the bus.   If suddenly it’s all about throwing people under the bus let’s throw some Republican politicians under the bus, call out trump for being an idiot explain trump doesn’t even understand what he’s talking about.  There are about a million things that could have been said that wouldn’t alienate a large segment of potential Biden voters.
    I didn't see the interview you're talking about. I hear what you are saying. The other side of the coin, though, is the republicans will take any sign of weakness regarding this issue and exploit it to kingdom come. So it's probably better for Biden to be more firm on this than not...
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  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,074
    Biden
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    static111 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    static111 said:
    If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination.  By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
    The Bernie supporters are better served with Team Trump Treason as POTUS? Why wouldn’t they get behind Hillary and pressure her to give them what they wanted? Why do socialists think everything should be handed to them rather than rolling up their sleeves and doing the hard work within the party they allegedly ran in? Oh, never mind, it’s like every other so called “independent” that doesn’t want to do the dirty work and who run under the guise of belonging to either the repub or dem party.

    But anyway, how’s that spite party working out for Bernie and his followers now?
    Only spite I’ve been seeing seems to be coming from vote shamers. I mean vote shaming and ostracizing and ridiculing Sanders voters sure did win the election in’16...oh wait no that didn’t work
    You work with and within the party you allegedly support, not against it, to get your desired end result. You think AOC is going to stamp her feet and tell her followers to stay home? No, she's rolled up her sleeves and is doing the hard work required and moving the dems to the left, maybe not as quickly as the Bernie supporters would like but at least she's showing the grandpa's followers how to be an adult about it. Bernie supporters who stayed home or voted third party out of spite should be shamed. They own part of the current clusterfuck we're in.
    And I’m sure telling them that in those words will get them straight to the polls.  Bernie brought millions of fresh people into politics, created a multigenerational multi ethnic coalition that has been steadily moving the Democrat party to the left.  This wasn’t done just by AOC, The Squad and Bernie, it was done by the volunteers, small donations, phone bankers, door knockers and down ballot progressive candidates that were largely Bernie supporters. Tell me how this isn’t doing the work?  It’s crazy that people would rather try to drive this group of potential voters away through shame than reach out a hand for inclusion.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden

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