The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.
much of it is an older generation of union workers, working class, etc... who reject modern society and technology. They think that we can reverse course to 1955 where an entire town (white males) works at a plant, goes to the same church. can leave their doors unlocked, allow pies to cool on a window sill, not worry about media and stimulus 24/7. John Wayne. No "queers". You can tell your neighbor a racist joke. Simplicity. These people were/are seduced by the whole 'Make America Great Again" slogan.
Them, and the anti-abortion zealots.
Yes, it would be wonderful to go back to simpler times. But you cant. We have to adapt with the rest of the world or we fade off and fall behind.
Sounds like an accurate description of small town middle America.
I don't share most of those kinds of beliefs, but I would love it if I could be comfortable with leaving my doors unlocked. When I was a kid, everyone on my block left their doors unlocked. Us kids when we were little from several us the families there cold just walk right into another friends house and no one gave it a second thought.
Pies cooling on an open window? You bet! Who doesn't like that?!
Simplicity? Nothing wrong with that (yeah, OK, it's in my half-Amish blood).
But racist jokes, homophobia, anti abortion? No, never went for that shit!
As for John Wayne? He was not popular in my home G.I. gen/ baby boomer home. Nor was Reagan!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
"our positions on social issues"
What social issues, and who are "us" ?
Democrats.. and gay marriage, obamacare, abortion, etc. Working class whites are not with us here. They are stuck in the 50's/60's.
The working class is much more diverse than middle aged white men lol. That is a huge problem equating millions of diverse people as drooling Trump voting morons because of their social economic status. Construction workers, service workers, frontline workers, store clerks, landscapers, factory workers etc...all these people are middle aged white men that harken back to the days of yore? That is a pretty simplistic view of things.
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.
Post edited by static111 on
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,289
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Will Koolaide be served while Team Trump Treason Tax Cheat intones over the sound system to drink it up, drink it all up, it's beautiful?
View in browser|nytimes.com
Continue reading the main story
November 2, 2020
By David Leonhardt
Good morning. One day before the election, we rank the 12 big outcomes to look for.
Voters waited to cast their ballots in Pflugerville, Texas, on Friday.Tamir Kalifa for The New York Times
Your election guide
With only one day before Election Day, we’re using today’s newsletter to offer our ranking of this year’s 12 most important outcomes.
1. The presidency. This one is obvious. The U.S. will be a very different country under a second Trump term as opposed to a Joe Biden presidency.
The first things to watch for tomorrow night will be whether Biden wins Florida, Georgia or North Carolina. Any of these will probably give him the presidency. If he seems to be losing all of them, the country may be looking at a long night — or a long week — of vote counting, with the outcome coming down to some combination of Arizona and Pennsylvania.
2. Senate control. Even if Biden wins, he may struggle to pass major legislation unless Democrats also control the Senate. And if President Trump wins, the Senate will determine how many judges he can appoint in a second term.
The Democrats are likely to lose the Senate seat they now hold in Alabama, meaning they would need to flip four Republican-held seats to retake control if Vice President Kamala Harris is breaking Senate ties (and five if Vice President Mike Pence still is).
Democrats have held consistent if small leads over four Republican incumbents in Arizona, Colorado, Maine and North Carolina. The races for five other Republican-held seats are tight: Iowa, Montana, South Carolina and two in Georgia.
3. State legislatures. Control of state legislatures is especially important in a census year, like 2020, because they draw congressional districts in many states. Over all, Democrats control 19 legislatures and Republicans control 29, with Minnesota split and Nebraska nonpartisan.
Tomorrow, Democrats hope to take full control in Arizona, Minnesota and North Carolina, and to win partial control in Iowa, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Texas. (Stephen Wolf of Daily Kos has a detailed breakdown.)
4. The House. This would be higher on the list, but the result seems clear. Democrats are heavy favorites to retain control and maybe expand their 35-seat margin.
A few races to watch: Republicans are in danger of losing seats in New York, New Jersey and Ohio. Democratic incumbents are at risk of losing in southern New Mexico, Staten Island and Minnesota.
5. Prosecutors and courts. Some large cities and counties — including Los Angeles, Orlando and Arizona’s Maricopa County — could elect prosecutors who have argued against mass incarceration. These candidates typically oppose the death penalty and the prosecution of simple drug-possession cases, as Daniel Nichanian of The Appeal explains.
In Michigan and Ohio, Democrats hope to gain control of the state supreme courts, which could reduce gerrymandering, protect labor and voting rights and uphold governors’ pandemic policies.
6. Populist economics. Several states will consider ballot initiatives intended to reduce economic inequality, including: a measure to establish a $15 minimum wage in Florida; a step toward a more progressive income tax in Illinois; higher taxes on the affluent in Arizona; and an increase in property taxes on businesses in California.
7. Abortion in Colorado. Voters will decide whether to ban abortions after 22 weeks of gestational age. Many red states already have such laws, but Colorado would become arguably the most liberal state to adopt one.
8. Puerto Rico statehood. Citizens there will vote in a nonbinding initiative to signal whether they want the island to become a state. If it passes, a future Congress is more likely to add two new states — Puerto Rico and Washington, D.C.
9. Bernie-style Democrats. Justice Democrats — the progressive group that recruited Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez — has endorsed five House candidates trying to win election for the first time. Perhaps the most intriguing: Kara Eastman, who’s running in a swing district in Nebraska. So far, Bernie Sanders-style Democrats like Eastman have won virtually no races in competitive districts.
10. The future of Uber and Lyft in California. The companies are backing an initiative that would allow them to continue paying their drivers as independent contractors rather than employees, saying it’s vital to the business model. Many labor unions oppose the measure, saying it would prevent drivers from earning a living wage.
11. Ranked-choice voting. Voters in Alaska, Massachusetts and a handful of cities will decide whether to adopt ranked-choice voting, which makes it easier to vote third party without undermining a major-party candidate. Currently, only Maine uses the system statewide.
12. Drug policy. Arizona, Mississippi, Montana, New Jersey and South Dakota will consider versions of marijuana legalization, while Oregon and Washington, D.C., will vote on whether to ease restrictions on mushrooms.
For a longer list: See this guide to “what’s on the ballot,” by Nichanian, a political scientist.
THE LATEST NEWS
THE 2020 CAMPAIGN
A Trump supporter at a rally in Shelby Township, Mich., on Sunday.Brittany Greeson for The New York Times
• Both campaigns will be in Pennsylvania today, the state most likely to decide the election. Biden will also campaign in Ohio, which Trump flipped from the Democrats in 2016.
• The Times’s final polls of the 2020 election show Biden leading in four battleground states: Arizona, Florida, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Biden has a meaningful but not commanding lead in Pennsylvania, The Times’s Nate Cohn explains.
• The Texas Supreme Court denied a Republican attempt to throw out more than 120,000 early ballots cast at drive-through locations in the state’s largest county, which is heavily Democratic. But a Republican-appointed judge has called a hearing today in a nearly identical effort in federal court.
• Trump’s election night party will take place inside the White House and could involve around 400 guests — a potentially dangerous number for an indoor event during the pandemic.
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."
He did a handful of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.
I was wondering who the narrator is. I think you might be right.
Definitely sam elliot. unmistakable.
Flight Risk out NOW!
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Kat
There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,777
Biden
Hey Don The Con, There's a process we go through in elections called counting the votes. Win or Lose, you won't know the result until ALL the votes are counted. Just sit down, be quiet and wait until the votes are counted like the rest of us have to do.
I couldn't be more disgusted by what's been going on in this political season.
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."
He did a handful of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.
Who's discounting "millions of working people?" You claimed that if the democratic ideals are embraced and promoted, "working class" would be a given. The "working class" is a large diverse group and the white, non-educated, the largest bloc, have increasingly left the dems because of the "other." They're not nor have they ever really been, a "given."
I don't see that much difference between suppressing voters and keeping or working to lower that low 55%(?) voter turnout, and throwing away ballots cast after the fact.
Pretty much the same crime against democracy.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
"our positions on social issues"
What social issues, and who are "us" ?
Democrats.. and gay marriage, obamacare, abortion, etc. Working class whites are not with us here. They are stuck in the 50's/60's.
The working class is much more diverse than middle aged white men lol. That is a huge problem equating millions of diverse people as drooling Trump voting morons because of their social economic status. Construction workers, service workers, frontline workers, store clerks, landscapers, factory workers etc...all these people are middle aged white men that harken back to the days of yore? That is a pretty simplistic view of things.
To your other point and this one...
I completely understand your point, but I don't think people like you are the ones that have left the D party. You went left, the majority went to the right. And it's not because of taxes and healthcare, it was about social issues. Now I agree that Trump grabbed some Obama voters with the populist message, I'm just not convinced that's the majority of the working class.
Certainly many did. But the question is whether the acceleration of progressive social issues turned them back to Trump, or could it have been economic issues as Static or Bernie might indicated. The answer is probably both, but I have always felt that the social issues, immigration, and the like is what moved them right. Obviously no one can make a statement that encompasses all people of a certain class, race, religion, etc.
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."
He did a handful of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.
Who's discounting "millions of working people?" You claimed that if the democratic ideals are embraced and promoted, "working class" would be a given. The "working class" is a large diverse group and the white, non-educated, the largest bloc, have increasingly left the dems because of the "other." They're not nor have they ever really been, a "given."
I tried to find some statistics. The best I could find was that NCWs make up approximately 40% of the “working class” this according to an article from CBS in 2019. According to PEW election data 60% of NCW “working class” support Trump. So that makes up what 24% of NCW “working class” that support trump. I would say yes working class policies would make working class votes a given. Now if instead of actually saying “working class” and instead saying NCWs that support Trump I would agree that isn’t a given, but NCW Trump voters are actually a minority of the working class.
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
"our positions on social issues"
What social issues, and who are "us" ?
Democrats.. and gay marriage, obamacare, abortion, etc. Working class whites are not with us here. They are stuck in the 50's/60's.
The working class is much more diverse than middle aged white men lol. That is a huge problem equating millions of diverse people as drooling Trump voting morons because of their social economic status. Construction workers, service workers, frontline workers, store clerks, landscapers, factory workers etc...all these people are middle aged white men that harken back to the days of yore? That is a pretty simplistic view of things.
To your other point and this one...
I completely understand your point, but I don't think people like you are the ones that have left the D party. You went left, the majority went to the right. And it's not because of taxes and healthcare, it was about social issues. Now I agree that Trump grabbed some Obama voters with the populist message, I'm just not convinced that's the majority of the working class.
I concur with your statement here. And judging from my life experiences in the working class it really comes down to economic anxiety and loud mouth GOP politicians pointing the finger to blame some other group that fuels all of the right wing hysteria amongst the NCWs. I really believe if we Do more to support the working class we can solve a lot of problems. If everyone had good wages and a path to some form of economic stability we would see less blame going around. Getting away from paying benefits by allowing 36 hour work weeks is something that needs to be taken care of. Higher wages For the working class(fight for 15) that would reduce that NCW economic anxiety coupled with existing affirmative action programs would help reduce the White-Minority wealth gap. Not to mention the urgent need to fixthe public education system that GOP and the more Neo-Liberal Democrats have destroyed over the years. That wouldn’t solve racism or fix backwards ideas of NCWs right away but it would be a good start.
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."
He did a handful of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.
Who's discounting "millions of working people?" You claimed that if the democratic ideals are embraced and promoted, "working class" would be a given. The "working class" is a large diverse group and the white, non-educated, the largest bloc, have increasingly left the dems because of the "other." They're not nor have they ever really been, a "given."
I tried to find some statistics. The best I could find was that NCWs make up approximately 40% of the “working class” this according to an article from CBS in 2019. According to PEW election data 60% of NCW “working class” support Trump. So that makes up what 24% of NCW “working class” that support trump. I would say yes working class policies would make working class votes a given. Now if instead of actually saying “working class” and instead saying NCWs that support Trump I would agree that isn’t a given, but NCW Trump voters are actually a minority of the working class.
How do you define "working class?" I work, am I working class? Is it by type of job, blue collar versus white collar, for example? Or is it by income range? If so, what's the range? And who makes up the other 60% of "working class?"
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."
He did a handful of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.
Who's discounting "millions of working people?" You claimed that if the democratic ideals are embraced and promoted, "working class" would be a given. The "working class" is a large diverse group and the white, non-educated, the largest bloc, have increasingly left the dems because of the "other." They're not nor have they ever really been, a "given."
I tried to find some statistics. The best I could find was that NCWs make up approximately 40% of the “working class” this according to an article from CBS in 2019. According to PEW election data 60% of NCW “working class” support Trump. So that makes up what 24% of NCW “working class” that support trump. I would say yes working class policies would make working class votes a given. Now if instead of actually saying “working class” and instead saying NCWs that support Trump I would agree that isn’t a given, but NCW Trump voters are actually a minority of the working class.
How do you define "working class?" I work, am I working class? Is it by type of job, blue collar versus white collar, for example? Or is it by income range? If so, what's the range? And who makes up the other 60% of "working class?"
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
This all started in response to @mrussel1 a comment about the working class. Let’s ask him what definition he was meaning? I think usually it refers to people that aren’t in middle management and above and do actual labor. What do you traditionally think of when you think of the working class @halifax2t@Halifax2TheMax ? is there a political scientist approved definition?
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."
He did a handful of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.
Who's discounting "millions of working people?" You claimed that if the democratic ideals are embraced and promoted, "working class" would be a given. The "working class" is a large diverse group and the white, non-educated, the largest bloc, have increasingly left the dems because of the "other." They're not nor have they ever really been, a "given."
I tried to find some statistics. The best I could find was that NCWs make up approximately 40% of the “working class” this according to an article from CBS in 2019. According to PEW election data 60% of NCW “working class” support Trump. So that makes up what 24% of NCW “working class” that support trump. I would say yes working class policies would make working class votes a given. Now if instead of actually saying “working class” and instead saying NCWs that support Trump I would agree that isn’t a given, but NCW Trump voters are actually a minority of the working class.
How do you define "working class?" I work, am I working class? Is it by type of job, blue collar versus white collar, for example? Or is it by income range? If so, what's the range? And who makes up the other 60% of "working class?"
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
This all started in response to @mrussel1 a comment about the working class. Let’s ask him what definition he was meaning? I think usually it refers to people that aren’t in middle management and above and do actual labor. What do you traditionally think of when you think of the working class @halifax2t@Halifax2TheMax ? is there a political scientist approved definition?
I typically think blue collar within a defined income range. But I'm not sure what the low and high ends of that are. $35K to $60K? I'm just trying to understand why you would say if dems cared about "working class" issues, the "working class" would be a given to go dem. That has not been the case since at least Reagan.
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."
He did a handful of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.
Who's discounting "millions of working people?" You claimed that if the democratic ideals are embraced and promoted, "working class" would be a given. The "working class" is a large diverse group and the white, non-educated, the largest bloc, have increasingly left the dems because of the "other." They're not nor have they ever really been, a "given."
I tried to find some statistics. The best I could find was that NCWs make up approximately 40% of the “working class” this according to an article from CBS in 2019. According to PEW election data 60% of NCW “working class” support Trump. So that makes up what 24% of NCW “working class” that support trump. I would say yes working class policies would make working class votes a given. Now if instead of actually saying “working class” and instead saying NCWs that support Trump I would agree that isn’t a given, but NCW Trump voters are actually a minority of the working class.
How do you define "working class?" I work, am I working class? Is it by type of job, blue collar versus white collar, for example? Or is it by income range? If so, what's the range? And who makes up the other 60% of "working class?"
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?
This all started in response to @mrussel1 a comment about the working class. Let’s ask him what definition he was meaning? I think usually it refers to people that aren’t in middle management and above and do actual labor. What do you traditionally think of when you think of the working class @halifax2t@Halifax2TheMax ? is there a political scientist approved definition?
I think of it as blue collar jobs. Construction, electrician, etc. You might be in charge of 3 HVAC guys but you're still working class. By contrast, a teller at the bank, a customer service rep, i think of that as white collar. Maybe my definition isn't the official political media one though.
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I was wondering who the narrator is. I think you might be right.
of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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There's a process we go through in elections called counting the votes. Win or Lose, you won't know the result until ALL the votes are counted. Just sit down, be quiet and wait until the votes are counted like the rest of us have to do.
I couldn't be more disgusted by what's been going on in this political season.
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Pretty much the same crime against democracy.
I completely understand your point, but I don't think people like you are the ones that have left the D party. You went left, the majority went to the right. And it's not because of taxes and healthcare, it was about social issues. Now I agree that Trump grabbed some Obama voters with the populist message, I'm just not convinced that's the majority of the working class.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
my life experiences in the working class it really comes down to economic anxiety and loud mouth GOP politicians pointing the finger to blame some other group that fuels all
of the right wing hysteria amongst the NCWs. I really believe if we Do more to support the working class we can solve a lot of problems. If everyone had good wages and a path to some form
of economic stability we would see less blame going around. Getting away from paying benefits by allowing 36 hour work weeks is something that needs to be taken care of. Higher wages For the working class(fight for 15) that would reduce that NCW economic anxiety coupled with existing affirmative action programs would help reduce the White-Minority wealth gap. Not to mention the urgent need to fixthe public education system that GOP and the more Neo-Liberal Democrats have destroyed over the years. That wouldn’t solve racism or fix backwards ideas of NCWs right away but it would be a good start.
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is there a political scientist approved definition?
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/524005-marist-nbc-polls-show-biden-up-five-points-in-pennsylvania-tied-race-in
Gotta be good news for Biden.
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