Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

BLM murals are being defaced.
https://www.fox19.com/2020/07/14/black-lives-mural-vandalized-outside-city-hall/
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/black-lives-matter-mural-in-front-of-trump-tower-defaced-with-red-paint/2513093/

The second one the guy will get caught.  he left his prints on the damn paint can...

Well everything else is getting defaced. If Virgin Mary statues are going to be set on fire, there's no reason BLM murals can't be defaced too...

https://twitter.com/BreakngNewsPhtg/status/1282338453062062086?s=20

Could have been done by a former choirboy. It’s not like the Catholic Church doesn’t have baggage or clean hands. Not everything traces back to BLM.

Sure it does. Since the Floyd murder, people have felt empowered to go around destroying stuff. Especially symbols of things. Symbols of America like George Washington, symbols of Christianity like Virgin Mary, etc. So if even if it was a disgruntled choirboy, if not for the aftermath of the Floyd murder, he probably wouldn't have done this. 

Do you think people were openly going around spray-painting stuff like this before the Floyd "movement"?

That could have been done by Proud Boys or Buggaloos to stir shit up, particularly as the graffiti lacks Skilz, yo. What’s behind the fence? And yes, shit like that was spray painted before George Floyd’s murder, you just didn’t hear about it nor were afraid because of it.

People have been vandalizing shit since the beginning of time and spray painting or tagging shit since spray paint was invented. But let’s blame all vandalism and spray painting on the post George Floyd protests. “Get back in your place, you doth protesteth too much.”

So a Virgin Mary statue is defaced, maybe it's a choirboy! 

"Kill White People" is spray-painted, maybe it's white supremacist trying to stir shit!

A girl is shot for saying "All Lives Matter," immediately you speculated that maybe she or her friends said the N-word!

Let me guess, the one-year-old that was murdered in NYC ripped the murderers off and the kid had it coming?

Because former choir boys ain’t got no reason, right?

Buggaloos and Proud Boys ain’t never tried to stir shit up, right?

I didn’t speculate, I read the NY Post article reporting about what transpired. It said the following:

They argued with another group after one of the people Whitaker was with used a racial slur, her bereaved fiancé, Jose Ramirez, told WXIN.

A racially charged confrontation ensued with the other group, during which the suspect’s group shouted, “Black Lives Matter,” and someone in Whitaker’s group — possibly her — said, “all lives matter,” Ramirez said.

Is that what you think the 1 year old did? You're whacked, yo.

As you well know, that's a caricature of you, obviously. You look to place blame anywhere and everywhere except where you know it belongs, to fit your politcal narratives, so that does seem like something you'd say. You sure as hell won't acknowledge how shootings are rising under De Blasio (up 130% from last year). Or that it was two black dudes that shot the one-year-old, because not the type of gun violence you like to talk about, yo. 

I don't believe I commented on the one year old and I also believe my stance on firearms and "responsible" gun owners is well known. While you seem to want to blame gun violence solely on a person or group's skin color, I tend to think its much more complicated than that. Like unemployment, lack of opportunity, drugs, gangs, institutionalized racism, and yes, "responsible" gun owners flooding the illegal gun buyers market. You claim not to see "race" but yet you perpetuate the stereotypes. Constantly. See the NY Post article and your comment to me about me wanting to say maybe the N word was used. Nice to know that you also defend the Catholic church, a harmless/blameless organization. I wonder what the caricature of you would be because we all know white people don't shoot anyone?

Absolutely not. You're the racist one that cherry-picks what type of gun violence you want to discuss. Of course you didn't comment on the one-year-old. But if some white MAGA-hat guy left his gun out and his kid got to it, you sure would be commenting on that.

And I'm not defending the church. It's not about that at all. It's about the normalization of property destruction. Anything that's a symbol of anything these days is ripe to be destroyed. But don't paint over a BLM mural that De Blasio painted on the street, yo. 

And you're free to discuss any type of gun violence you'd like. I prefer to focus on "responsible" gun owners. Because after all, most of the gun violence is a direct result of "responsible" gun owners. White guy/gal gun violence gets a pass and shouldn't be called out? While Indianer and Virginy directly contribute to the gun violence you see in Chicago and NYC? Because all those straw purchases begin with  a "responsible" gun owner or the boyz in the hood are manufacturing their firearms? "Normalization" of property destruction? Because there were crowds in the street cheering for the fence to be spray painted? Everywhere I look, I see property destruction, its been normalized, yo.

Vandalism didn't exist until BLM spoke up, right? Maybe shit needs to change.

Sure it should. But you don't really care about gun violence. That's why you crack jokes about "responsiblity" yo. "Gun Violence" is just an avenue for you to rag on those hillbillies. Otherwise, you'd care about the jump in shootings in NYC. Again, as I've told you like four times now without a response.....they're up 130% in NYC. 

As for the property destruction, and overall chaos, it's happening. I know you're probably afraid to check out a right-winger's twitter. But they're the ones showing the violence in the streets. They're not showing that stuff on Apple, CNN, or wherever else you get your information. Do you have any clue what it's like in Portland right now? It's worse that Seattle was last month by far. 

You know what's been "normalized?" Killing of African Americans by the police and white people in general. But good to see where and what you're outraged about. Property vandalism and destruction. Has Seattle fallen yet? Portland will surely follow. Yea, that couple in St. Louis sure fit the 'hillbillies" description you so aptly used. Nice.

My views on gun violence are well known and have been stated numerous times on this forum. "Responsible" gun owners are the key to the change that is needed. But you know, freedom, yo. Twitter is where its at and is a very sound source of accurate information and the reality of what's really going on.

To the bolded part, what did you expect when guns are readily available and promoted and sold to just about anyone? What do you think is driving the gun violence in NYC? Think gangs have anything to do with it? You think unemployment has anything to do with it? You think the gun industry has anything to do with it? You think pro-gun politicians and the NRA have anything to do with it? Do you think "responsible" gun owners have anything to do with it? 

JW269453 said:

oftenreading said:

"Delusional" - now the standard AMT insult used by people who have no idea what it means. It's certainly been trending over the past month or two. 

Please enlighten me, or were you referring to yourself? I have updated the example for you to better understand.

Delusional - having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions.

People who think “responsible” gun owners are made up of one race are delusional.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/delusional

oftenreading said:

JW269453 said:

oftenreading said:

"Delusional" - now the standard AMT insult used by people who have no idea what it means. It's certainly been trending over the past month or two. 

Please enlighten me, or were you referring to yourself? I have updated the example for you to better understand.

Delusional - having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions.

People who think “responsible” gun owners are made up of one race are delusional.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/delusional

No, I'm aware of the term delusional. I'm a mental health professional who regularly works with individuals with delusions and other symptoms of severe and persistent mental illness, and it's really bloody frustrating when people minimize the challenges of actual mental illness by misusing these terms in a spat with someone on the internet. 

Halifax2TheMax said:

I'm still waiting for the link to my declaration that "responsible" gun owners are made up of one race or that gun violence is solely a white issue. Seems someone is projecting.

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

I'm still waiting for the link to my declaration that "responsible" gun owners are made up of one race or that gun violence is solely a white issue. Seems someone is projecting.

You paint the picture with every link you share, and I am not the only one who notices it. You seem pretty handy with the internet, toss a story in every once in awhile that isn’t targeting a specific demographic and you will make a better case for yourself. Have a good evening.

Well, at least I didn’t wonder when the black community was going to get their community in order. I wonder what picture was trying to be painted with that comment? 

You must have me mistaken for someone else, I have never made a comment anywhere close to that.

hedonist said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Good article by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar about the lack of outrage over anti-Semitism, with criticisms of the likes of Stephen Jackson and Ice Cube...

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/kareem-abdul-jabbar-is-outrage-anti-semitism-sports-hollywood-1303210

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Where Is the Outrage Over Anti-Semitism in Sports and Hollywood?

Recent incidents of anti-Semitic tweets and posts from sports and entertainment celebrities are a very troubling omen for the future of the Black Lives Matter movement, but so too is the shocking lack of massive indignation. Given the New Woke-fulness in Hollywood and the sports world, we expected more passionate public outrage. What we got was a shrug of meh-rage.

When reading the dark squishy entrails of popular culture, meh-rage in the face of sustained prejudice is an indisputable sign of the coming Apatholypse: apathy to all forms of social justice. After all, if it’s OK to discriminate against one group of people by hauling out cultural stereotypes without much pushback, it must be OK to do the same to others. Illogic begets illogic.

Ice Cube’s June 10 daylong series of tweets, which involved some creepy symbols and images, in general implied that Jews were responsible for the oppression of blacks. NFL player DeSean Jackson tweeted out several anti-Semitic messages, including a quote he incorrectly thought was from Hitler (not your go-to guy for why-can’t-we-all-get-along quotes) stating that Jews had a plan to “extort America” and achieve “world domination.” Isn’t that SPECTRE’s job in James Bond movies?

These statements would be laughed at by anyone with a middle-school grasp of reason, but then former NBA player Stephen Jackson, a self-proclaimed activist, undid whatever progress his previous advocacy may have achieved by agreeing with DeSean Jackson on social media. Then he went on to talk about the Rothschilds owning all the banks and his support for the notorious homophobe and anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan. That is the kind of dehumanizing characterization of a people that causes the police abuses that killed his friend, George Floyd.

June continued to bust out all over with anti-Semitism when performer Chelsea Handler, herself Jewish, posted videos of Farrakhan to her 3.9 million followers. That means almost 4 million people received a subliminal message that even some Jews think being anti-Jewish is justified.

That same month, President Donald Trump’s reelection campaign also has been criticized for exploiting anti-Jewish biases, even though Trump’s son-in-law and campaign honcho Jared Kushner is Jewish and his daughter Ivanka converted to Judaism before they married. Playing on the same Rothschild’s trope, they issued a letter accusing three billionaires of Jewish descent of using their fortunes to “rig the November election.” This is the kind of “very fine people on both sides” Trump has employed throughout his political career — pandering to hate groups that has emboldened racists who feel like they’ve gotten the presidential OK to attack people they don’t like.

These famous, outspoken people share the same scapegoat logic as all oppressive groups from Nazis to the KKK: all our troubles are because of bad-apple groups that worship wrong, have the wrong complexion, come from the wrong country, are the wrong gender or love the wrong gender. It’s so disheartening to see people from groups that have been violently marginalized do the same thing to others without realizing that perpetuating this kind of bad logic is what perpetuates racism.

Yes, some of the above have apologized — DeSean Jackson, Stephen Jackson, Chelsea Handler — while others continue to defiantly marinate in their own prejudice. Their arrogant and irrational response to accusations of anti-Semitism, rather than dissuade us, actually confirmed people’s worst opinions. Ice Cube’s response was remorseless: “What if I was just pro-Black? This is the truth brother. I didn’t lie on anyone. I didn’t say I was anti anybody. DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE. I’ve been telling my truth.” His “truth” was clearly anti-Semitic but, like Trump, he believes his truth exists outside facts. As writer Roxane Gay summed it up: “It is impossible to take you seriously with regards to social justice or anything when you post anti-Semitic imagery. What the fuck are you doing?”

Even the apologies floundered, more attempts at spin than true contrition. In a CNN interview, Stephen Jackson was angry and belligerent at being called out: “I stated I could have changed my words. There’s nothing that I said that I support any of that. There’s nothing I said that I hate anybody. I apologize for my words and I could have switched up. That’s the end of it. I love everybody.” While it’s possible the words were wrong, celebrities have a responsibility to get the words right. It’s not enough to have good intentions, because it’s the actual deeds — and words — which have the real impact. In this case destructive impact. In 2013, there were 751 reported hate crimes against Jews, but by 2019 the number had nearly tripled to 2,107. That same year, a gunman in San Diego entered a synagogue and murdered one person while wounding three.

One of the most powerful songs in the struggle against racism is Billie Holiday’s melancholic “Strange Fruit,” which was first recorded in 1939. The song met strong resistance from radio stations afraid of its graphic lyrics about lynching:

Southern trees bear a strange fruit
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root
Black bodies swinging in the Southern breeze
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees

Despite those who wanted to suppress the song, it went on to sell a million copies that year and became Holiday’s best-selling record ever. The song was written by a white, Jewish high school teacher, Abel Meeropol, who performed it with his wife around New York before it was given to Holiday.

The lesson never changes, so why is it so hard for some people to learn: No one is free until everyone is free. As Martin Luther King Jr. explained: “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality.” So, let’s act like it. If we’re going to be outraged by injustice, let’s be outraged by injustice against anyone.

Thank you for posting this.

A small aside...years ago I was buying some fruit at The Farmer's Market here in LA.  I glanced next to me and saw these HUGE bare brown feet.  I look up two goddamn feet and it's Kareem smiling down at me.  Nice memory

hedonist said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Good article by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar about the lack of outrage over anti-Semitism, with criticisms of the likes of Stephen Jackson and Ice Cube...

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/kareem-abdul-jabbar-is-outrage-anti-semitism-sports-hollywood-1303210

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Where Is the Outrage Over Anti-Semitism in Sports and Hollywood?

Recent incidents of anti-Semitic tweets and posts from sports and entertainment celebrities are a very troubling omen for the future of the Black Lives Matter movement, but so too is the shocking lack of massive indignation. Given the New Woke-fulness in Hollywood and the sports world, we expected more passionate public outrage. What we got was a shrug of meh-rage.

When reading the dark squishy entrails of popular culture, meh-rage in the face of sustained prejudice is an indisputable sign of the coming Apatholypse: apathy to all forms of social justice. After all, if it’s OK to discriminate against one group of people by hauling out cultural stereotypes without much pushback, it must be OK to do the same to others. Illogic begets illogic.

Ice Cube’s June 10 daylong series of tweets, which involved some creepy symbols and images, in general implied that Jews were responsible for the oppression of blacks. NFL player DeSean Jackson tweeted out several anti-Semitic messages, including a quote he incorrectly thought was from Hitler (not your go-to guy for why-can’t-we-all-get-along quotes) stating that Jews had a plan to “extort America” and achieve “world domination.” Isn’t that SPECTRE’s job in James Bond movies?

These statements would be laughed at by anyone with a middle-school grasp of reason, but then former NBA player Stephen Jackson, a self-proclaimed activist, undid whatever progress his previous advocacy may have achieved by agreeing with DeSean Jackson on social media. Then he went on to talk about the Rothschilds owning all the banks and his support for the notorious homophobe and anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan. That is the kind of dehumanizing characterization of a people that causes the police abuses that killed his friend, George Floyd.

June continued to bust out all over with anti-Semitism when performer Chelsea Handler, herself Jewish, posted videos of Farrakhan to her 3.9 million followers. That means almost 4 million people received a subliminal message that even some Jews think being anti-Jewish is justified.

That same month, President Donald Trump’s reelection campaign also has been criticized for exploiting anti-Jewish biases, even though Trump’s son-in-law and campaign honcho Jared Kushner is Jewish and his daughter Ivanka converted to Judaism before they married. Playing on the same Rothschild’s trope, they issued a letter accusing three billionaires of Jewish descent of using their fortunes to “rig the November election.” This is the kind of “very fine people on both sides” Trump has employed throughout his political career — pandering to hate groups that has emboldened racists who feel like they’ve gotten the presidential OK to attack people they don’t like.

These famous, outspoken people share the same scapegoat logic as all oppressive groups from Nazis to the KKK: all our troubles are because of bad-apple groups that worship wrong, have the wrong complexion, come from the wrong country, are the wrong gender or love the wrong gender. It’s so disheartening to see people from groups that have been violently marginalized do the same thing to others without realizing that perpetuating this kind of bad logic is what perpetuates racism.

Yes, some of the above have apologized — DeSean Jackson, Stephen Jackson, Chelsea Handler — while others continue to defiantly marinate in their own prejudice. Their arrogant and irrational response to accusations of anti-Semitism, rather than dissuade us, actually confirmed people’s worst opinions. Ice Cube’s response was remorseless: “What if I was just pro-Black? This is the truth brother. I didn’t lie on anyone. I didn’t say I was anti anybody. DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE. I’ve been telling my truth.” His “truth” was clearly anti-Semitic but, like Trump, he believes his truth exists outside facts. As writer Roxane Gay summed it up: “It is impossible to take you seriously with regards to social justice or anything when you post anti-Semitic imagery. What the fuck are you doing?”

Even the apologies floundered, more attempts at spin than true contrition. In a CNN interview, Stephen Jackson was angry and belligerent at being called out: “I stated I could have changed my words. There’s nothing that I said that I support any of that. There’s nothing I said that I hate anybody. I apologize for my words and I could have switched up. That’s the end of it. I love everybody.” While it’s possible the words were wrong, celebrities have a responsibility to get the words right. It’s not enough to have good intentions, because it’s the actual deeds — and words — which have the real impact. In this case destructive impact. In 2013, there were 751 reported hate crimes against Jews, but by 2019 the number had nearly tripled to 2,107. That same year, a gunman in San Diego entered a synagogue and murdered one person while wounding three.

One of the most powerful songs in the struggle against racism is Billie Holiday’s melancholic “Strange Fruit,” which was first recorded in 1939. The song met strong resistance from radio stations afraid of its graphic lyrics about lynching:

Southern trees bear a strange fruit
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root
Black bodies swinging in the Southern breeze
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees

Despite those who wanted to suppress the song, it went on to sell a million copies that year and became Holiday’s best-selling record ever. The song was written by a white, Jewish high school teacher, Abel Meeropol, who performed it with his wife around New York before it was given to Holiday.

The lesson never changes, so why is it so hard for some people to learn: No one is free until everyone is free. As Martin Luther King Jr. explained: “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality.” So, let’s act like it. If we’re going to be outraged by injustice, let’s be outraged by injustice against anyone.

Thank you for posting this.

A small aside...years ago I was buying some fruit at The Farmer's Market here in LA.  I glanced next to me and saw these HUGE bare brown feet.  I look up two goddamn feet and it's Kareem smiling down at me.  Nice memory