Seattle Has Fallen...

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,923
    Meanwhile, one side seems to be hellbent on provoking violence and has actually done some shooting. But no "concern" from some. Typical.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/16/bethel-ohio-black-lives-counterprotest/

    In what she called her longest-ever Facebook post, Alicia Gee said she was preparing on a cheerful Sunday morning not for church but for a demonstration “long overdue in my little town."

    “A demonstration to show my neighbors there are people who care, to show my very monochromatic town that Black Lives Matter,” said Gee, who identified herself as a lifelong resident of the village of Bethel, Ohio — population roughly 2,800. It was a testament to the wide reach of the movement against racism and police brutality convulsing the country since George Floyd’s death in police custody, weeks of demonstrations that have swept from cities to suburbs and tiny Midwestern towns that haven’t seen protests in decades.

    But the 80 or so expected demonstrators ended up dwarfed Sunday afternoon by some 700 counterprotesters — motorcycle gangs, “back the blue” groups and proponents of the Second Amendment, village officials said. Some carried rifles, a local news station reported, while others brought baseball bats and clubs. Police say they are investigating about 10 “incidents” from the clashes that followed, including a demonstrator being punched in the head.

    No one was arrested Sunday because police were overwhelmed to the point they had to focus on maintaining order and safety, he said; on Monday, more law enforcement from multiple agencies were there to help.

    “It was a local group. It wasn’t an outside influencer coming to the village,” he said of the original demonstrators. Many of the counterprotesters, on the other hand, were from out of the town, some with out-of-state license plates on their motorcycles, he said.



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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,923
    You rely upon multple news outlets for some version of reality? You said in the first post I quoted today that there were no firearms there. By me relying on Twitterers on the ground, I was able to show that's completely wrong. You seem to pick and choose the aspects of reality you want to acknowledge. 

    As for the second bolded part, I don't know why these people have guns. Probably to inimidate like you say. The guy handing out the guns was Raz Simone. People have alleged he's the leader of CHOP, but there's no way of me confirming that. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he's not a Proud Boy or a member of the KKK though.

    And the third bolded part is just typical you. I'm the one that opened the door for you to even know there were guns there (your multiple news outlets didn't seem to know). I'm the one that suggested it's a problem that there's guns there like that. And yet you virtue signal by listing a bunch of massacres that bother you and question whether they bother me? I'm the one showing concern for the safety of the peaceful protesters there...in hopes that there isn't another shooting death.

    Typically, when multiple news outlets report generaly the same information, you can glean that theres some truth to it. Why would guns in Seattle, an open carry state, be any differenct than elsewhere with open carry laws? Yet, you seem concernced because its CHOP? I'm concerned with open carry everywhere. Its why I won't step foot in Tejas or Florida.

    Pretty big assumption on your part to state that the CHOP protesters with guns are armed to "intimidate." Maybe its to protect themselves from the Proud Boys, right wing militias and Bugaloos? Seems more likely from the reporting I've read. I'm surprised that you didn't refer to Raz as a "terrorist warlord." Maybe he's undercover for the Proud Boys or KKK? I kid so lighten up.

    Why is it a problem there are guns there? You didn't seem to care there were guns at the state house protests? I responded to your accustaion that I spend my days looking for gun violence stories in the press and explained my reason for posting gun violence and "responsible" gun owner stories. Because yes, I'm still bothered by mass shootings. I'm sorry you consider that "virtual signaling." What's next, a snowflake reference? 
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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,963
    Typically, when multiple news outlets report generaly the same information, you can glean that theres some truth to it. Why would guns in Seattle, an open carry state, be any differenct than elsewhere with open carry laws? Yet, you seem concernced because its CHOP? I'm concerned with open carry everywhere. Its why I won't step foot in Tejas or Florida.

    Pretty big assumption on your part to state that the CHOP protesters with guns are armed to "intimidate." Maybe its to protect themselves from the Proud Boys, right wing militias and Bugaloos? Seems more likely from the reporting I've read. I'm surprised that you didn't refer to Raz as a "terrorist warlord." Maybe he's undercover for the Proud Boys or KKK? I kid so lighten up.

    Why is it a problem there are guns there? You didn't seem to care there were guns at the state house protests? I responded to your accustaion that I spend my days looking for gun violence stories in the press and explained my reason for posting gun violence and "responsible" gun owner stories. Because yes, I'm still bothered by mass shootings. I'm sorry you consider that "virtual signaling." What's next, a snowflake reference? 
    I can't believe you're still bringing up those state house protests. I did think that it was stupid that they were carrying guns. And the virtue signaling isn't you still being bothered by mass shootings, it's the snarky implication that I'm not. 

    And yeah, the guns could be to protect themselves from right-wing extremists. Like I said earlier, that's where the problems will likely come from if there's any. 

    The difference between CHOP and all other open carry sections of the country are police, per the mayor, aren't allowed at CHOP. Police are allowed at nearly all other places. Couple that with a moron passing out guns from his car, civil unrest, tensions, unrealistic demands from protesters to the city, and it could be an issue. I'll be happy to be wrong on this. Maybe it turns into some hippie utopia where they all live in harmony for ever and ever. That'd be fine with me. But maybe it doesn't.
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,923
    I can't believe you're still bringing up those state house protests. I did think that it was stupid that they were carrying guns. And the virtue signaling isn't you still being bothered by mass shootings, it's the snarky implication that I'm not. 

    And yeah, the guns could be to protect themselves from right-wing extremists. Like I said earlier, that's where the problems will likely come from if there's any. 

    The difference between CHOP and all other open carry sections of the country are police, per the mayor, aren't allowed at CHOP. Police are allowed at nearly all other places. Couple that with a moron passing out guns from his car, civil unrest, tensions, unrealistic demands from protesters to the city, and it could be an issue. I'll be happy to be wrong on this. Maybe it turns into some hippie utopia where they all live in harmony for ever and ever. That'd be fine with me. But maybe it doesn't.
    The difference between CHOP and the right is that within CHOP thus far, there hasn’t been a shooting despite your desire that there not be “another” as you stated at the end of your previous post. And in the absence of police within CHOP what violence has occurred? Yet, at other protests with police, violence has occurred by “right” protestors.

    What unrealistic demands are being made by CHOP? That they be left alone by law enforcement for the time being? Why is the absence of police going to inevitably lead to violence? Seems it’s the right wing nut jobs you should be concerned about.

    Maybe it leads to positive social change and a stronger interconnected community with less police violence perpetrated on minorities? Maybe not? But surely Seattle has fallen and it’s the end of ‘Murica as we know it.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,963
    edited June 2020
    The difference between CHOP and the right is that within CHOP thus far, there hasn’t been a shooting despite your desire that there not be “another” as you stated at the end of your previous post. And in the absence of police within CHOP what violence has occurred? Yet, at other protests with police, violence has occurred by “right” protestors.

    What unrealistic demands are being made by CHOP? That they be left alone by law enforcement for the time being? Why is the absence of police going to inevitably lead to violence? Seems it’s the right wing nut jobs you should be concerned about.

    Maybe it leads to positive social change and a stronger interconnected community with less police violence perpetrated on minorities? Maybe not? But surely Seattle has fallen and it’s the end of ‘Murica as we know it.
    It is! With no cops, it's a haven for white supremacists (or whoever) to show up and cause chaos without having to worry about the police. What will happen then? A shootout with Raz and his crew? And when I say "another shooting," I'm following up your post about mass shootings; that I don't want to see a mass shooting and CHOP could be a place where some maniac tries something like that. I’m not saying there was already a shooting at CHOP, obviously. Wouldn’t we have already discussed it if there was?

    As for the unrealistic demands, I'll just post demand #1. They aren't requests after all. They're demands. And this isn't realistic. Copied from your post....

    "The Seattle Police Department and attached court system are beyond reform. We do not request reform, we demand abolition. We demand that the Seattle Council and the Mayor defund and abolish the Seattle Police Department and the attached Criminal Justice Apparatus. This means 100% of funding, including existing pensions for Seattle Police. At an equal level of priority we also demand that the city disallow the operations of ICE in the city of Seattle."

    Well that's not going to fucking happen. 100% of funding to the police department of a big city? You think that's a realistic demand?

    Post edited by Ledbetterman10 on
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

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  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    I can't believe you're still bringing up those state house protests. I did think that it was stupid that they were carrying guns. And the virtue signaling isn't you still being bothered by mass shootings, it's the snarky implication that I'm not. 

    And yeah, the guns could be to protect themselves from right-wing extremists. Like I said earlier, that's where the problems will likely come from if there's any. 

    The difference between CHOP and all other open carry sections of the country are police, per the mayor, aren't allowed at CHOP. Police are allowed at nearly all other places. Couple that with a moron passing out guns from his car, civil unrest, tensions, unrealistic demands from protesters to the city, and it could be an issue. I'll be happy to be wrong on this. Maybe it turns into some hippie utopia where they all live in harmony for ever and ever. That'd be fine with me. But maybe it doesn't.
    Just wanted to correct one thing. The cops are allowed in CHOP and will respond to any situation that may be life threatening, whether it is a medical emergency or violence. They will not respond to calls about property or non-violent issues. They're not responding to those calls because they don't want to escalate anything. 

    We've seen almost no violence there. The big disturbance was the CHOP people apprehending a dude who broke into and set fire to an automotive repair shop within CHOP. The cops were called but never showed, so they ended up letting the guy go since they couldn't do anything else with him. But there are people within CHOP who are attempting to maintain order. Prior to CHAZ there was violence every night with cops lighting the place up with tear gas, pepper spray and rubber/plastic bullets. 
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,923
    It is! What aren't you getting about this? With no cops, it's a haven for white supremacists (or whoever) to show up and cause chaos without having to worry about the police. And when I say "another shooting," I'm following up your post about mass shootings; that I don't want to see a mass shooting and CHOP could be a place where some maniac tries something like that. 

    As for the unrealistic demands, I'll just post demand #1. They aren't requests after all. They're demands. And this isn't realistic. Copied from your post....

    "The Seattle Police Department and attached court system are beyond reform. We do not request reform, we demand abolition. We demand that the Seattle Council and the Mayor defund and abolish the Seattle Police Department and the attached Criminal Justice Apparatus. This means 100% of funding, including existing pensions for Seattle Police. At an equal level of priority we also demand that the city disallow the operations of ICE in the city of Seattle."

    Well that's not going fucking happen. 100% of funding to the police department of a big city? You think that's a realistic demand?

    If you'd like to have this discussion in Brian's thread, I'm happy to do so.

    Thanks for the clarification as I thought you were referring to a shooting as already having happened by a CHOP protestor.

    And in the list I posted, I clearly stated that some were pie in the sky and had no chance of being met. However, what if the demand you listed is somehow met in the middle or closer to the existing but changes were made. Is that a failure? A waste? What might it look like? I have no idea but I won't dismiss CHOP and their demands. Its the beginning of a dialog with the power structure and meaningful change can happen. Defund, to me, means re-organize, re-allocate resources, re-train, re-hire, as in reform the hiring process, and other systemic changes that make police less militarized and more community based. And what if a year from now CHOP still doesn't have a police presence and yet crime is no more prevalent than pre-CHOP?

    Like I said, if you want to move this discussion over to Brian's thread, happy to do so.

    Take a look at Ohio and New Mexico for white supremacists and cops and what has resulted. Team Trump Treason's got the bikers too.
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  • ZodZod Posts: 10,824
    brianlux said:

    Nuke the damn place.  And ban hippies forever!

    I'd prefer it if you didn't.  I live in Canada, but I'm only about 80 miles from Seattle (in a straight line).  I'd prefer not to grow a third eye from the radiation :)
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,963
    Jeffbr, thanks for the information on what is and what isn’t allowed for the cops to do in Chop

    Halifax, if CHOP is thriving a year from in its current setup, I’ll happily concede that you were right. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,923
    Jeffbr, thanks for the information on what is and what isn’t allowed for the cops to do in Chop

    Halifax, if CHOP is thriving a year from in its current setup, I’ll happily concede that you were right. 
    My guess is that once the cold, rainy weather arrives, it'll quietly go by the wayside. But there may very well be some positive systemic changes as a result. Time will tell.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • static111static111 Posts: 4,906
    The difference between CHOP and the right is that within CHOP thus far, there hasn’t been a shooting despite your desire that there not be “another” as you stated at the end of your previous post. And in the absence of police within CHOP what violence has occurred? Yet, at other protests with police, violence has occurred by “right” protestors.

    What unrealistic demands are being made by CHOP? That they be left alone by law enforcement for the time being? Why is the absence of police going to inevitably lead to violence? Seems it’s the right wing nut jobs you should be concerned about.

    Maybe it leads to positive social change and a stronger interconnected community with less police violence perpetrated on minorities? Maybe not? But surely Seattle has fallen and it’s the end of ‘Murica as we know it.
    It’s like people have never been to white neighborhoods or wealthy suburbs where you rarely if ever see police.  Some of these people whining and crying about the lawlessness and lack of police probably rarely see any police in their own comfortable ass neighborhoods.
    Scio me nihil scire

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,923
    static111 said:
    It’s like people have never been to white neighborhoods or wealthy suburbs where you rarely if ever see police.  Some of these people whining and crying about the lawlessness and lack of police probably rarely see any police in their own comfortable ass neighborhoods.
    Someone else posted a quote from AOC in one of these threads saying basically the same thing except it was because those neighborhoods invested in education, sports programs, Parks, etc. and that’s all that the minority community wants as well.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • static111static111 Posts: 4,906
    Someone else posted a quote from AOC in one of these threads saying basically the same thing except it was because those neighborhoods invested in education, sports programs, Parks, etc. and that’s all that the minority community wants as well.
    And it still continues to blow my mind that a huge portion of Americans and posters on this board don’t understand it.  I wish AOC was old enough to be the VP pick, but that’s for a different thread.
    Scio me nihil scire

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,923

    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,898
    Here you go is this what’s happening in Seattle? These are the proud Americans you should bd worried about 
    https://apple.news/AlZTH9hWxQCyMz0W5NKhxiw

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  • jimjam1982jimjam1982 AZ Posts: 1,471
    Jeffbr, thanks for the information on what is and what isn’t allowed for the cops to do in Chop

    Halifax, if CHOP is thriving a year from in its current setup, I’ll happily concede that you were right. 

    Lol 1 year. They dont have 1 month left
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,927
    edited June 2020
    There’s 4 words that make me fearful for this protest/occupation/experiment: Lord Of The Flies.

     I honestly hope it doesn’t come to that, obviously. I’m also worried about a further outbreak of the virus, but Seattle’s likely not to be the only flashpoint.

    Edited to correct my mistake (it’s 4 words not 5, my bad).
    Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,738
    static111 said:
    It’s like people have never been to white neighborhoods or wealthy suburbs where you rarely if ever see police.  Some of these people whining and crying about the lawlessness and lack of police probably rarely see any police in their own comfortable ass neighborhoods.
    Do you live in such a neighborhood to know this?

    I don’t think it’s accurate based on my perception. I do think police interactions are MuCH different though.
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  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    edited June 2020
    Hick?  Your food, booze, and the containers, 99% of essentials you consume starts with working Hicks did you know that?
    Instagator?  The National conversation is more than a one way street.  
    Troll?  Saying it like it is don't make a troll.  20 pj shows & 4 ed solos.  Fan Since 91.  I just don't agree with everything.
    One of these days, y'all are going to see that you've got a lot to learn, and I'm not qualified to be the teacher.  Good luck with your self-righteous wall.

    https://youtu.be/KESzkrnegdM
    Post edited by RYME on
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    It’s one thing to speak your mind; quite another to disparage those fighting or living with, or dying from this fucking disease.

    By the way, I give not one shit how many shows anyone has under their belt. How much difference does it make?
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,923
    Not to mention one third of the National dialog is had by people who have alternative facts, don’t believe in science, believe in conspiracy theories and gave rise to Qanon. That’s a conversation I’m not interested in having, regardless of how many times they’ve seen Pearl Jam.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • static111static111 Posts: 4,906
    Do you live in such a neighborhood to know this?

    I don’t think it’s accurate based on my perception. I do think police interactions are MuCH different though.
    No I have never lived in a rich largely white community, but I’ve seen where the rich largely white people live, it is much different in terms of police presence.
    Scio me nihil scire

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  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 9,039
    static111 said:
    No I have never lived in a rich largely white community, but I’ve seen where the rich largely white people live, it is much different in terms of police presence.
    Wouldn’t there be more police present in neighborhoods with the most crime, 911 calls? 
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,906
    edited June 2020
    nicknyr15 said:
    Wouldn’t there be more police present in neighborhoods with the most crime, 911 calls? 
    What came first the chicken or the egg?   You step up aggressive police presence in those high $$$ neighborhoods And let’s see what happens.  Probably distrust of violent police. police having to reach their quotas in those $$$ neighborhoods would lead to more aggressive policing measures To find whatever minor misdemeanors they can to find $$$ for their coffers, because I mean they are gonna have to seize someone’s assets in a civil forfeiture for petty crime to keep the money coming in, which would upset the population.  Of course this would never happen because here in America it’s only ok to treat marginalized communities, POCs, indigenous and African American people like that, never the white patriarchy power elite.


    Edit: also does a 911 call correlate to crime. I mean in our fucked up sytem it correlates to officers showing up, but that doesn’t always mean crime even if officers try to make one happen anyway.
    Post edited by static111 on
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,180
    There’s 5 words that make me fearful for this protest/occupation/experiment: The Lord Of The Flies.

     I honestly hope it doesn’t come to that, obviously. I’m also worried about a further outbreak of the virus, but Seattle’s likely not to be the only flashpoint.

    Not to worry, it won't be the same- there are no wild pigs in CHOP.  In fact, I believe currently there are no pigs in CHOP. :lol: 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,923
    edited June 2020
    brianlux said:

    Not to worry, it won't be the same- there are no wild pigs in CHOP.  In fact, I believe currently there are no pigs in CHOP. :lol: 
    But if you read up on the real lord of the flies story that occurred, you’d be surprised that they managed to survive 15 months on a deserted island and eventually be rescued in relatively good health. A group of teenagers got bored living on an island in New Guinea, stole a small fishing boat, had mechanical problems or ran out of gas and got washed up on a rock of an island. Banded together, set rules and roles and conflict resolution. Kept a fire going for months Incase a passing ship was spotted and managed to eat to stay alive.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/09/the-real-lord-of-the-flies-what-happened-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months
    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,180
    But if you read up on the real lord of the flies story that occurred, you’d be surprised that they managed to survive 15 months on a deserted island and eventually be rescued in relatively good health. A group of teenagers got bored living on an island in New Guinea, stole a small fishing boat, had mechanical problems or ran out of gas and got washed up on a rock of an island. Banded together, set rules and roles and conflict resolution. Kept a fire going for months Incase a passing ship was spotted and managed to eat to stay alive.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/09/the-real-lord-of-the-flies-what-happened-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months
    Interesting- learn something new every day.  Thanks!

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,927
    But if you read up on the real lord of the flies story that occurred, you’d be surprised that they managed to survive 15 months on a deserted island and eventually be rescued in relatively good health. A group of teenagers got bored living on an island in New Guinea, stole a small fishing boat, had mechanical problems or ran out of gas and got washed up on a rock of an island. Banded together, set rules and roles and conflict resolution. Kept a fire going for months Incase a passing ship was spotted and managed to eat to stay alive.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/09/the-real-lord-of-the-flies-what-happened-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months
    Interesting (to parrot Brian, lol), thanks for sharing. Too bad as the article says that the story’s been relegated to obscurity. It should have been part of the lessons when we covered Golding’s novel back in high school.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,697
    nicknyr15 said:
    Wouldn’t there be more police present in neighborhoods with the most crime, 911 calls? 
    I thought the same. I lived in Venice beach and worked in south central LA. Lots of cops in SC LA because there’s lots of crime. Wasn’t uncommon to have shootings and other gang violence on a regular basis. I don’t believe for a second if you take the cops away the gangs are going to suddenly behave. You have generations of people who hate others based on the street they grew up on.
    Venice was a little better, but only a few minutes from neighborhoods like Brentwood with low crime and less police action.
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,963
    Portland mayor on not allowing an autonomous zone in Portland, and how he doesn't support Seattle's

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