Seattle Has Fallen...
Comments
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Well where's the reporting? Usually you come equipped with an Apple News link or something.Halifax2TheMax said:
Never mind the reporting on “heated discussions” taking place. No opposing views, just everyone in agreement on what and how to do moving forward.Ledbetterman10 said:
I think people are paying attention to the fact that six city blocks have been "surrendered" so to speak, to protesters. I'm just kind of in the middle and waiting to see what will happen. Do I think it's a mini-militia like some on the right? No. Do I think it's a great social experiment that anything good will come from like some on the left? Again, no. As for calling it an "echo chamber," the definition of that term is "an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered." I think that's what it is. Which is to be expected of course. If someone in "CHAZ" were to try to make a positive argument about police, I don't think that would welcomed with healthy debate.oftenreading said:
From the look of it, plenty of people are paying attention. The fact that the quality of information is variable is not surprising. What makes you call it an echo chamber? Seems to be a fair amount of discussion, which likely will become clearer over time.Ledbetterman10 said:
Oh I agree peacefully gathering and protesting can cause change. I don't think this will though. What change is going come? No more police? Of course not. Police reform? Maybe based on the nationwide protests as a whole, but not by some city giving up six blocks to protesters.oftenreading said:
So you believe it’s impossible for people gathering peacefully in a spirit of community engagement to make changes in their own community? That’s quite odd. There is plenty of precedent for people to improve their communities in this manner.Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah of course you'd rather be a hippie block party. Who wouldn't? I'm just saying that's all it is. Brain being "thrilled" over the social experimentation and his hope that something good will come out of it, while well-meaning, is just delusional. It's not even a protest if there's no cops there to protest at. And it's not really a demonstration if it's not being widely broadcast, so people that don't share their opinion can't even be influenced by them. So it's nothing. Just young liberals hanging out...and there's nothing wrong with that. But that's all it is.oftenreading said:Ledbetterman10 said:
What good do you think could come from it? It's basically just a hippie block party.brianlux said:nicknyr15 said:This should end well.Ledbetterman10 said:
I wondering how it'll all end too. It's pretty peaceful now according to reports. But what's going to happen when the party's over and they're told to go home? If that day even comes.nicknyr15 said:This should end well.
It wouldn't surprise me if this ends differently than it started by being infiltrated by those who are fearful of social change. It's happened numerous times. Instead of focusing on what may happen or predicting a bad ending, I'm thrilled to see social experimentation and hopeful that something good will come out of what is happening NOW because right now, it's going well.
Given the choice between a hippie block party and an area full of police in riot gear harassing and harming citizens, I know where I'd rather be.I would also disagree with your opinion that it’s not a protest if there are no police to protest “at”. There is no requirement for a protest to be directly “at” a group for it to be effective. Case in point, Greta Thunberg’s protest, which started with her simply sitting quietly outside of school one day a week, I believe. The fact that she was not right in front of polluters was irrelevant.
As for the Greta comparison, you're saying that people don't need to be in front of the person they're protesting for them to hear. I agree. But who is hearing or listening to CHAZ right now? Seems like an echo chamber if there's no dissenting views or debate.
2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
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Still believing in “armed guards?” Lawless societies? What laws are being violated? Are the laws of those six blocks being completely disregarded and ignored?bbiggs said:
Lawless societies with armed guards are a couple parallels that can be drawn. What happens when the city decides enough is enough and the party is over? It has the potential for a bad ending. Hopefully not.Halifax2TheMax said:
That’s a tad extreme. They’re not even close in comparison.bbiggs said:Can’t help but think this has the feel of a Waco, TX or Jonestown type environment operating under the guise of a peaceful protest. The whole thing is incredibly odd. Hopefully it doesn’t end like those two “gatherings” did.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Already been posted. Try to keep up. And both of which are better than nothing.Ledbetterman10 said:
Well where's the reporting? Usually you come equipped with an Apple News link or something.Halifax2TheMax said:
Never mind the reporting on “heated discussions” taking place. No opposing views, just everyone in agreement on what and how to do moving forward.Ledbetterman10 said:
I think people are paying attention to the fact that six city blocks have been "surrendered" so to speak, to protesters. I'm just kind of in the middle and waiting to see what will happen. Do I think it's a mini-militia like some on the right? No. Do I think it's a great social experiment that anything good will come from like some on the left? Again, no. As for calling it an "echo chamber," the definition of that term is "an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered." I think that's what it is. Which is to be expected of course. If someone in "CHAZ" were to try to make a positive argument about police, I don't think that would welcomed with healthy debate.oftenreading said:
From the look of it, plenty of people are paying attention. The fact that the quality of information is variable is not surprising. What makes you call it an echo chamber? Seems to be a fair amount of discussion, which likely will become clearer over time.Ledbetterman10 said:
Oh I agree peacefully gathering and protesting can cause change. I don't think this will though. What change is going come? No more police? Of course not. Police reform? Maybe based on the nationwide protests as a whole, but not by some city giving up six blocks to protesters.oftenreading said:
So you believe it’s impossible for people gathering peacefully in a spirit of community engagement to make changes in their own community? That’s quite odd. There is plenty of precedent for people to improve their communities in this manner.Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah of course you'd rather be a hippie block party. Who wouldn't? I'm just saying that's all it is. Brain being "thrilled" over the social experimentation and his hope that something good will come out of it, while well-meaning, is just delusional. It's not even a protest if there's no cops there to protest at. And it's not really a demonstration if it's not being widely broadcast, so people that don't share their opinion can't even be influenced by them. So it's nothing. Just young liberals hanging out...and there's nothing wrong with that. But that's all it is.oftenreading said:Ledbetterman10 said:
What good do you think could come from it? It's basically just a hippie block party.brianlux said:nicknyr15 said:This should end well.Ledbetterman10 said:
I wondering how it'll all end too. It's pretty peaceful now according to reports. But what's going to happen when the party's over and they're told to go home? If that day even comes.nicknyr15 said:This should end well.
It wouldn't surprise me if this ends differently than it started by being infiltrated by those who are fearful of social change. It's happened numerous times. Instead of focusing on what may happen or predicting a bad ending, I'm thrilled to see social experimentation and hopeful that something good will come out of what is happening NOW because right now, it's going well.
Given the choice between a hippie block party and an area full of police in riot gear harassing and harming citizens, I know where I'd rather be.I would also disagree with your opinion that it’s not a protest if there are no police to protest “at”. There is no requirement for a protest to be directly “at” a group for it to be effective. Case in point, Greta Thunberg’s protest, which started with her simply sitting quietly outside of school one day a week, I believe. The fact that she was not right in front of polluters was irrelevant.
As for the Greta comparison, you're saying that people don't need to be in front of the person they're protesting for them to hear. I agree. But who is hearing or listening to CHAZ right now? Seems like an echo chamber if there's no dissenting views or debate.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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So you seriously think that every single person in that neighbourhood has the exact same views? I highly doubt that.Ledbetterman10 said:
I think people are paying attention to the fact that six city blocks have been "surrendered" so to speak, to protesters. I'm just kind of in the middle and waiting to see what will happen. Do I think it's a mini-militia like some on the right? No. Do I think it's a great social experiment that anything good will come from like some on the left? Again, no. As for calling it an "echo chamber," the definition of that term is "an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered." I think that's what it is. Which is to be expected of course. If someone in "CHAZ" were to try to make a positive argument about police, I don't think that would welcomed with healthy debate.oftenreading said:
From the look of it, plenty of people are paying attention. The fact that the quality of information is variable is not surprising. What makes you call it an echo chamber? Seems to be a fair amount of discussion, which likely will become clearer over time.Ledbetterman10 said:
Oh I agree peacefully gathering and protesting can cause change. I don't think this will though. What change is going come? No more police? Of course not. Police reform? Maybe based on the nationwide protests as a whole, but not by some city giving up six blocks to protesters.oftenreading said:
So you believe it’s impossible for people gathering peacefully in a spirit of community engagement to make changes in their own community? That’s quite odd. There is plenty of precedent for people to improve their communities in this manner.Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah of course you'd rather be a hippie block party. Who wouldn't? I'm just saying that's all it is. Brain being "thrilled" over the social experimentation and his hope that something good will come out of it, while well-meaning, is just delusional. It's not even a protest if there's no cops there to protest at. And it's not really a demonstration if it's not being widely broadcast, so people that don't share their opinion can't even be influenced by them. So it's nothing. Just young liberals hanging out...and there's nothing wrong with that. But that's all it is.oftenreading said:Ledbetterman10 said:
What good do you think could come from it? It's basically just a hippie block party.brianlux said:nicknyr15 said:This should end well.Ledbetterman10 said:
I wondering how it'll all end too. It's pretty peaceful now according to reports. But what's going to happen when the party's over and they're told to go home? If that day even comes.nicknyr15 said:This should end well.
It wouldn't surprise me if this ends differently than it started by being infiltrated by those who are fearful of social change. It's happened numerous times. Instead of focusing on what may happen or predicting a bad ending, I'm thrilled to see social experimentation and hopeful that something good will come out of what is happening NOW because right now, it's going well.
Given the choice between a hippie block party and an area full of police in riot gear harassing and harming citizens, I know where I'd rather be.I would also disagree with your opinion that it’s not a protest if there are no police to protest “at”. There is no requirement for a protest to be directly “at” a group for it to be effective. Case in point, Greta Thunberg’s protest, which started with her simply sitting quietly outside of school one day a week, I believe. The fact that she was not right in front of polluters was irrelevant.
As for the Greta comparison, you're saying that people don't need to be in front of the person they're protesting for them to hear. I agree. But who is hearing or listening to CHAZ right now? Seems like an echo chamber if there's no dissenting views or debate.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
Lord almighty you're insufferable. Yeah I saw your Washington post article, and I've seen some right-wing articles. So unlike you, who will just take the liberal side as gospel, I have weed through it all.Halifax2TheMax said:
Already been posted. Try to keep up. And both of which are better than nothing.Ledbetterman10 said:
Well where's the reporting? Usually you come equipped with an Apple News link or something.Halifax2TheMax said:
Never mind the reporting on “heated discussions” taking place. No opposing views, just everyone in agreement on what and how to do moving forward.Ledbetterman10 said:
I think people are paying attention to the fact that six city blocks have been "surrendered" so to speak, to protesters. I'm just kind of in the middle and waiting to see what will happen. Do I think it's a mini-militia like some on the right? No. Do I think it's a great social experiment that anything good will come from like some on the left? Again, no. As for calling it an "echo chamber," the definition of that term is "an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered." I think that's what it is. Which is to be expected of course. If someone in "CHAZ" were to try to make a positive argument about police, I don't think that would welcomed with healthy debate.oftenreading said:
From the look of it, plenty of people are paying attention. The fact that the quality of information is variable is not surprising. What makes you call it an echo chamber? Seems to be a fair amount of discussion, which likely will become clearer over time.Ledbetterman10 said:
Oh I agree peacefully gathering and protesting can cause change. I don't think this will though. What change is going come? No more police? Of course not. Police reform? Maybe based on the nationwide protests as a whole, but not by some city giving up six blocks to protesters.oftenreading said:
So you believe it’s impossible for people gathering peacefully in a spirit of community engagement to make changes in their own community? That’s quite odd. There is plenty of precedent for people to improve their communities in this manner.Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah of course you'd rather be a hippie block party. Who wouldn't? I'm just saying that's all it is. Brain being "thrilled" over the social experimentation and his hope that something good will come out of it, while well-meaning, is just delusional. It's not even a protest if there's no cops there to protest at. And it's not really a demonstration if it's not being widely broadcast, so people that don't share their opinion can't even be influenced by them. So it's nothing. Just young liberals hanging out...and there's nothing wrong with that. But that's all it is.oftenreading said:Ledbetterman10 said:
What good do you think could come from it? It's basically just a hippie block party.brianlux said:nicknyr15 said:This should end well.Ledbetterman10 said:
I wondering how it'll all end too. It's pretty peaceful now according to reports. But what's going to happen when the party's over and they're told to go home? If that day even comes.nicknyr15 said:This should end well.
It wouldn't surprise me if this ends differently than it started by being infiltrated by those who are fearful of social change. It's happened numerous times. Instead of focusing on what may happen or predicting a bad ending, I'm thrilled to see social experimentation and hopeful that something good will come out of what is happening NOW because right now, it's going well.
Given the choice between a hippie block party and an area full of police in riot gear harassing and harming citizens, I know where I'd rather be.I would also disagree with your opinion that it’s not a protest if there are no police to protest “at”. There is no requirement for a protest to be directly “at” a group for it to be effective. Case in point, Greta Thunberg’s protest, which started with her simply sitting quietly outside of school one day a week, I believe. The fact that she was not right in front of polluters was irrelevant.
As for the Greta comparison, you're saying that people don't need to be in front of the person they're protesting for them to hear. I agree. But who is hearing or listening to CHAZ right now? Seems like an echo chamber if there's no dissenting views or debate.
2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com0 -
Funny that, you make a snarky comment about links and information and then admit to having “read” it and call me insufferable? Thanks for the laugh!Ledbetterman10 said:
Lord almighty you're insufferable. Yeah I saw your Washington post article, and I've seen some right-wing articles. So unlike you, who will just take the liberal side as gospel, I have weed through it all.Halifax2TheMax said:
Already been posted. Try to keep up. And both of which are better than nothing.Ledbetterman10 said:
Well where's the reporting? Usually you come equipped with an Apple News link or something.Halifax2TheMax said:
Never mind the reporting on “heated discussions” taking place. No opposing views, just everyone in agreement on what and how to do moving forward.Ledbetterman10 said:
I think people are paying attention to the fact that six city blocks have been "surrendered" so to speak, to protesters. I'm just kind of in the middle and waiting to see what will happen. Do I think it's a mini-militia like some on the right? No. Do I think it's a great social experiment that anything good will come from like some on the left? Again, no. As for calling it an "echo chamber," the definition of that term is "an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered." I think that's what it is. Which is to be expected of course. If someone in "CHAZ" were to try to make a positive argument about police, I don't think that would welcomed with healthy debate.oftenreading said:
From the look of it, plenty of people are paying attention. The fact that the quality of information is variable is not surprising. What makes you call it an echo chamber? Seems to be a fair amount of discussion, which likely will become clearer over time.Ledbetterman10 said:
Oh I agree peacefully gathering and protesting can cause change. I don't think this will though. What change is going come? No more police? Of course not. Police reform? Maybe based on the nationwide protests as a whole, but not by some city giving up six blocks to protesters.oftenreading said:
So you believe it’s impossible for people gathering peacefully in a spirit of community engagement to make changes in their own community? That’s quite odd. There is plenty of precedent for people to improve their communities in this manner.Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah of course you'd rather be a hippie block party. Who wouldn't? I'm just saying that's all it is. Brain being "thrilled" over the social experimentation and his hope that something good will come out of it, while well-meaning, is just delusional. It's not even a protest if there's no cops there to protest at. And it's not really a demonstration if it's not being widely broadcast, so people that don't share their opinion can't even be influenced by them. So it's nothing. Just young liberals hanging out...and there's nothing wrong with that. But that's all it is.oftenreading said:Ledbetterman10 said:
What good do you think could come from it? It's basically just a hippie block party.brianlux said:nicknyr15 said:This should end well.Ledbetterman10 said:
I wondering how it'll all end too. It's pretty peaceful now according to reports. But what's going to happen when the party's over and they're told to go home? If that day even comes.nicknyr15 said:This should end well.
It wouldn't surprise me if this ends differently than it started by being infiltrated by those who are fearful of social change. It's happened numerous times. Instead of focusing on what may happen or predicting a bad ending, I'm thrilled to see social experimentation and hopeful that something good will come out of what is happening NOW because right now, it's going well.
Given the choice between a hippie block party and an area full of police in riot gear harassing and harming citizens, I know where I'd rather be.I would also disagree with your opinion that it’s not a protest if there are no police to protest “at”. There is no requirement for a protest to be directly “at” a group for it to be effective. Case in point, Greta Thunberg’s protest, which started with her simply sitting quietly outside of school one day a week, I believe. The fact that she was not right in front of polluters was irrelevant.
As for the Greta comparison, you're saying that people don't need to be in front of the person they're protesting for them to hear. I agree. But who is hearing or listening to CHAZ right now? Seems like an echo chamber if there's no dissenting views or debate.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Well I thought you had something new to offer. Not the same article as yesterday or whenever. Of course the Post is gonna paint it that way. And it may be the case, but who knows for sure.Halifax2TheMax said:
Funny that, you make a snarky comment about links and information and then admit to having “read” it and call me insufferable? Thanks for the laugh!Ledbetterman10 said:
Lord almighty you're insufferable. Yeah I saw your Washington post article, and I've seen some right-wing articles. So unlike you, who will just take the liberal side as gospel, I have weed through it all.Halifax2TheMax said:
Already been posted. Try to keep up. And both of which are better than nothing.Ledbetterman10 said:
Well where's the reporting? Usually you come equipped with an Apple News link or something.Halifax2TheMax said:
Never mind the reporting on “heated discussions” taking place. No opposing views, just everyone in agreement on what and how to do moving forward.Ledbetterman10 said:
I think people are paying attention to the fact that six city blocks have been "surrendered" so to speak, to protesters. I'm just kind of in the middle and waiting to see what will happen. Do I think it's a mini-militia like some on the right? No. Do I think it's a great social experiment that anything good will come from like some on the left? Again, no. As for calling it an "echo chamber," the definition of that term is "an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered." I think that's what it is. Which is to be expected of course. If someone in "CHAZ" were to try to make a positive argument about police, I don't think that would welcomed with healthy debate.oftenreading said:
From the look of it, plenty of people are paying attention. The fact that the quality of information is variable is not surprising. What makes you call it an echo chamber? Seems to be a fair amount of discussion, which likely will become clearer over time.Ledbetterman10 said:
Oh I agree peacefully gathering and protesting can cause change. I don't think this will though. What change is going come? No more police? Of course not. Police reform? Maybe based on the nationwide protests as a whole, but not by some city giving up six blocks to protesters.oftenreading said:
So you believe it’s impossible for people gathering peacefully in a spirit of community engagement to make changes in their own community? That’s quite odd. There is plenty of precedent for people to improve their communities in this manner.Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah of course you'd rather be a hippie block party. Who wouldn't? I'm just saying that's all it is. Brain being "thrilled" over the social experimentation and his hope that something good will come out of it, while well-meaning, is just delusional. It's not even a protest if there's no cops there to protest at. And it's not really a demonstration if it's not being widely broadcast, so people that don't share their opinion can't even be influenced by them. So it's nothing. Just young liberals hanging out...and there's nothing wrong with that. But that's all it is.oftenreading said:Ledbetterman10 said:
What good do you think could come from it? It's basically just a hippie block party.brianlux said:nicknyr15 said:This should end well.Ledbetterman10 said:
I wondering how it'll all end too. It's pretty peaceful now according to reports. But what's going to happen when the party's over and they're told to go home? If that day even comes.nicknyr15 said:This should end well.
It wouldn't surprise me if this ends differently than it started by being infiltrated by those who are fearful of social change. It's happened numerous times. Instead of focusing on what may happen or predicting a bad ending, I'm thrilled to see social experimentation and hopeful that something good will come out of what is happening NOW because right now, it's going well.
Given the choice between a hippie block party and an area full of police in riot gear harassing and harming citizens, I know where I'd rather be.I would also disagree with your opinion that it’s not a protest if there are no police to protest “at”. There is no requirement for a protest to be directly “at” a group for it to be effective. Case in point, Greta Thunberg’s protest, which started with her simply sitting quietly outside of school one day a week, I believe. The fact that she was not right in front of polluters was irrelevant.
As for the Greta comparison, you're saying that people don't need to be in front of the person they're protesting for them to hear. I agree. But who is hearing or listening to CHAZ right now? Seems like an echo chamber if there's no dissenting views or debate.Weekend begins in 8 minutes. Gotta go. Keep up on this story over the weekend for me.2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com0 -
people are tired of undeserving assholes taking all the good jobs and housing. this is decades in the making.0
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Ledbetterman10 said:
I think people are paying attention to the fact that six city blocks have been "surrendered" so to speak, to protesters. I'm just kind of in the middle and waiting to see what will happen. Do I think it's a mini-militia like some on the right? No. Do I think it's a great social experiment that anything good will come from like some on the left? Again, no. As for calling it an "echo chamber," the definition of that term is "an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered." I think that's what it is. Which is to be expected of course. If someone in "CHAZ" were to try to make a positive argument about police, I don't think that would welcomed with healthy debate.oftenreading said:
From the look of it, plenty of people are paying attention. The fact that the quality of information is variable is not surprising. What makes you call it an echo chamber? Seems to be a fair amount of discussion, which likely will become clearer over time.Ledbetterman10 said:
Oh I agree peacefully gathering and protesting can cause change. I don't think this will though. What change is going come? No more police? Of course not. Police reform? Maybe based on the nationwide protests as a whole, but not by some city giving up six blocks to protesters.oftenreading said:
So you believe it’s impossible for people gathering peacefully in a spirit of community engagement to make changes in their own community? That’s quite odd. There is plenty of precedent for people to improve their communities in this manner.Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah of course you'd rather be a hippie block party. Who wouldn't? I'm just saying that's all it is. Brain being "thrilled" over the social experimentation and his hope that something good will come out of it, while well-meaning, is just delusional. It's not even a protest if there's no cops there to protest at. And it's not really a demonstration if it's not being widely broadcast, so people that don't share their opinion can't even be influenced by them. So it's nothing. Just young liberals hanging out...and there's nothing wrong with that. But that's all it is.oftenreading said:Ledbetterman10 said:
What good do you think could come from it? It's basically just a hippie block party.brianlux said:nicknyr15 said:This should end well.Ledbetterman10 said:
I wondering how it'll all end too. It's pretty peaceful now according to reports. But what's going to happen when the party's over and they're told to go home? If that day even comes.nicknyr15 said:This should end well.
It wouldn't surprise me if this ends differently than it started by being infiltrated by those who are fearful of social change. It's happened numerous times. Instead of focusing on what may happen or predicting a bad ending, I'm thrilled to see social experimentation and hopeful that something good will come out of what is happening NOW because right now, it's going well.
Given the choice between a hippie block party and an area full of police in riot gear harassing and harming citizens, I know where I'd rather be.I would also disagree with your opinion that it’s not a protest if there are no police to protest “at”. There is no requirement for a protest to be directly “at” a group for it to be effective. Case in point, Greta Thunberg’s protest, which started with her simply sitting quietly outside of school one day a week, I believe. The fact that she was not right in front of polluters was irrelevant.
As for the Greta comparison, you're saying that people don't need to be in front of the person they're protesting for them to hear. I agree. But who is hearing or listening to CHAZ right now? Seems like an echo chamber if there's no dissenting views or debate.
You are treating this as if it is some sort of intentional commune, where people had to travel to join. From what I've read, this is a group of people who live in the community, plus of course some others who have come to see what's going. Given that these are people brought together by geography in a diverse city, there are of course going to be dissenting views and discussion.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
Sure sounds like there is no room for discussion or dissent....
Capitol Hill’s new Autonomous Zone, known as CHAZ, is a six block area around 12th and Pine. Residents, business owners and activists are trying to figure out what’s next for this hard won territory.
“I feel like I’m in part of the civil rights movement,” said Lyn Ibahosa of the Federal Way Black Collective, who came up to see it. “Martin, Rosa, they’re all here. You feel the ancestors. And they’re calling us to do better in their names.”
A few nights ago, police were lobbing tear gas and flash bangs at protesters here. But now, it’s like a busy town square, full of people walking, eating free food, painting murals.
On Thursday, neighbors and business owners said they like it better this way.
Jeff Scott owns a manufacturing business in the CHAZ, and had a front row seat to the protests and police response.
"It de-escalated pretty dramatically when the cops left the area. And this comes from a guy trying to remain as neutral as we can.”
Taha Ibrahimi lives in the CHAZ.
“I feel relieved to come out now," Ibrahimi said. "Before I was scared to leave my apartment. I was so happy when the precinct left because I could finally leave my apartment.”
Not everyone’s happy about it though. Nick Pennington, who supported the protesters early on with a financial donation, said he's developed concerns about the CHAZ itself while watching it evolve from his apartment window. He said the neighborhood’s gotten dirtier.
“Over in the park where all the tents are, there’s just a bunch of garbage,” he said.
So what does it mean, for this set of six city blocks to govern itself?
It means that a lot of people are volunteering their time. Like Chris Hong, who stands at the barrier at the edge of the zone. He doesn’t stop people from entering, but if a car tries to speed through, he might throw a bike rack in its path.
“I am a speed bump,” he said, “I am just a neighbor spending some time moving things in and out of the way so that all the traffic coming through will do so at a reasonable pace that will not threaten anybody’s safety.”
Down at Cal Anderson Park, Marcus Henderson had an idea for a community garden. So he brought a shovel and started digging.
“Everyone showed up with plants, and from there it’s been the community’s garden.”
Then there’s the big mural, painted on the street. Artists like Aramis Hamer are painting the letters different colors.
“Right now, I’m painting the letter V in Black Lives Matter,” Hamer said, “Which is an obvious statement, but here we are, in the middle of Capitol Hill, making it clear for anybody who was confused.”
When the CHAZ first emerged, allegations began to spread about businesses being asked to pay a fee to operate inside the area, even for protection. Of the many businesses interviewed, all denied this had taken place.
While police initially asked for businesses and residents to report such claims of extortion, officials confirmed with The Seattle Times that no such official reports came in.
Who's in charge here?
Not all decisions in the autonomous zone come so easily though. For example, the same barricades that keep police out also keep fire engines out. Fire Chief Harold Scoggins came down to try to work things out with organizers here.
“We’re trying to figure out a way of still supporting the first amendment rights, but also supporting the businesses and residents that live in the area,” Scoggins said.
He left without answers.
One seemingly easy decision – turned out to be hard. Should protesters form a ring around the police precinct building to keep officers out? Or should they form a looser ring, so cops can enter and exit freely? This was one of many conversations happening at 12th and Pine on Thursday.
Joseph Adams argued police should be able to access the building.
“I’m just saying we shouldn’t go about and block them from getting inside their building,” he said. “Because it’s going to cause a bigger problem."
"I live on 13th and Yesler, and they’ve got the National Guards parked over there, like four busloads," Adams said. "And Donald Trump is waiting."
“So we have to be careful ... what we’re doing in these streets,” he said. “I understand wanting to get our message across. But we’ve got to go about doing it in a different way.”
Kailie Sandstrom said the police should not come back.
“I don’t see why we would be so quick to say we’re going to give this back to you. The police need to back off and give us time to figure out what the community wants here."
One challenge here is that, while there are organizers who facilitate discussions, there’s no obvious leader making decisions. The group makes decisions.
Malcolm H, with Black Lives Matter Seattle, hopes to see a little more organization.
“It’s very important that we get a council going of elected representatives of the CHAZ zone," he told Sandstrom. "Since you guys are going to be our sovereign state, you guys have to get that going immediately.”
That afternoon, the CHAZ started working on that. People formed circles and started building consensus. There were discussions about what leadership should look like, and why.
“Is there a reason why we’re not designating any leaders, like, as a protesting movement?” one person asked.
“Leaders get taken out,” another person answered. “And we saw that a lot in Ferguson that a lot of the Black leadership, that were making themselves into spokespeople and stuff, that were explaining a lot of stuff, some of them died, a lot of them got locked up.”
Discussion groups gave preference to black and brown voices, who’ve been shut out of decisions for so long.
At several points in the day, conversations were halted so that people could "hold their ground," and in one case to eject someone allegedly discovered to have been live-streaming to a right wing group. Another time it was to confront police officers who had stuck their head out of the precinct building.
After these interruptions, it was back to the conversations such as what should happen to the police property.
“If they were to give this building up right here, you know what I’d turn it into?" said Joseph Adams.
"A little Black Silicon Valley” he answered, to prepare Black children to compete with white workers for tech jobs.
At the end of the day, there were still many major decisions to be made. But the people in the CHAZ say they’ll keep meeting every day, until they have these things hammered out.
https://www.kuow.org/stories/chaz-community-chews-on-what-to-do-next
Post edited by oftenreading onmy small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
Would love to know what your conservative news sources are. Fox? OAN? WSJ? Conservative Tree House? CYA Barr? Team Trump Treason tweets? Rushbo? Hannity? RT? TACC? You know, all the ones based on facts and steeped in data, to get you out of your bubble?Ledbetterman10 said:
Well I thought you had something new to offer. Not the same article as yesterday or whenever. Of course the Post is gonna paint it that way. And it may be the case, but who knows for sure.Halifax2TheMax said:
Funny that, you make a snarky comment about links and information and then admit to having “read” it and call me insufferable? Thanks for the laugh!Ledbetterman10 said:
Lord almighty you're insufferable. Yeah I saw your Washington post article, and I've seen some right-wing articles. So unlike you, who will just take the liberal side as gospel, I have weed through it all.Halifax2TheMax said:
Already been posted. Try to keep up. And both of which are better than nothing.Ledbetterman10 said:
Well where's the reporting? Usually you come equipped with an Apple News link or something.Halifax2TheMax said:
Never mind the reporting on “heated discussions” taking place. No opposing views, just everyone in agreement on what and how to do moving forward.Ledbetterman10 said:
I think people are paying attention to the fact that six city blocks have been "surrendered" so to speak, to protesters. I'm just kind of in the middle and waiting to see what will happen. Do I think it's a mini-militia like some on the right? No. Do I think it's a great social experiment that anything good will come from like some on the left? Again, no. As for calling it an "echo chamber," the definition of that term is "an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered." I think that's what it is. Which is to be expected of course. If someone in "CHAZ" were to try to make a positive argument about police, I don't think that would welcomed with healthy debate.oftenreading said:
From the look of it, plenty of people are paying attention. The fact that the quality of information is variable is not surprising. What makes you call it an echo chamber? Seems to be a fair amount of discussion, which likely will become clearer over time.Ledbetterman10 said:
Oh I agree peacefully gathering and protesting can cause change. I don't think this will though. What change is going come? No more police? Of course not. Police reform? Maybe based on the nationwide protests as a whole, but not by some city giving up six blocks to protesters.oftenreading said:
So you believe it’s impossible for people gathering peacefully in a spirit of community engagement to make changes in their own community? That’s quite odd. There is plenty of precedent for people to improve their communities in this manner.Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah of course you'd rather be a hippie block party. Who wouldn't? I'm just saying that's all it is. Brain being "thrilled" over the social experimentation and his hope that something good will come out of it, while well-meaning, is just delusional. It's not even a protest if there's no cops there to protest at. And it's not really a demonstration if it's not being widely broadcast, so people that don't share their opinion can't even be influenced by them. So it's nothing. Just young liberals hanging out...and there's nothing wrong with that. But that's all it is.oftenreading said:Ledbetterman10 said:
What good do you think could come from it? It's basically just a hippie block party.brianlux said:nicknyr15 said:This should end well.Ledbetterman10 said:
I wondering how it'll all end too. It's pretty peaceful now according to reports. But what's going to happen when the party's over and they're told to go home? If that day even comes.nicknyr15 said:This should end well.
It wouldn't surprise me if this ends differently than it started by being infiltrated by those who are fearful of social change. It's happened numerous times. Instead of focusing on what may happen or predicting a bad ending, I'm thrilled to see social experimentation and hopeful that something good will come out of what is happening NOW because right now, it's going well.
Given the choice between a hippie block party and an area full of police in riot gear harassing and harming citizens, I know where I'd rather be.I would also disagree with your opinion that it’s not a protest if there are no police to protest “at”. There is no requirement for a protest to be directly “at” a group for it to be effective. Case in point, Greta Thunberg’s protest, which started with her simply sitting quietly outside of school one day a week, I believe. The fact that she was not right in front of polluters was irrelevant.
As for the Greta comparison, you're saying that people don't need to be in front of the person they're protesting for them to hear. I agree. But who is hearing or listening to CHAZ right now? Seems like an echo chamber if there's no dissenting views or debate.Weekend begins in 8 minutes. Gotta go. Keep up on this story over the weekend for me.
Enjoy your weekend. Seattle will still be here on Monday.
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I don’t look for conservative news sources (or any news sources based on what side of the aisle they lean) Rather, I look for conservative perspectives. And liberal ones too. Typically from Carlson and Maddow. Sure my eyes roll back in my head a lot while watching both, but it’s good to see what’s being preached to the viewers who only look for one perspective. I’d rather take both and decide for myself. It’s not hard to see through the bullshit. Maddow won’t show any looting or violence (these protests overall, not Seattle) despite there being some. And Carlson will show the hell out of it, but he’s running out so he continues to show looting from last week. You have to know what the bullshit. I have a friend that just got into politics. Unfortunately, through right wing youtubers. Now he watches Carlson. I warned him that while I watch him too, if that’s ALL you watch, you’ll be brainwashed. Same with the other side.Halifax2TheMax said:
Would love to know what your conservative news sources are. Fox? OAN? WSJ? Conservative Tree House? CYA Barr? Team Trump Treason tweets? Rushbo? Hannity? RT? TACC? You know, all the ones based on facts and steeped in data, to get you out of your bubble?Ledbetterman10 said:
Well I thought you had something new to offer. Not the same article as yesterday or whenever. Of course the Post is gonna paint it that way. And it may be the case, but who knows for sure.Halifax2TheMax said:
Funny that, you make a snarky comment about links and information and then admit to having “read” it and call me insufferable? Thanks for the laugh!Ledbetterman10 said:
Lord almighty you're insufferable. Yeah I saw your Washington post article, and I've seen some right-wing articles. So unlike you, who will just take the liberal side as gospel, I have weed through it all.Halifax2TheMax said:
Already been posted. Try to keep up. And both of which are better than nothing.Ledbetterman10 said:
Well where's the reporting? Usually you come equipped with an Apple News link or something.Halifax2TheMax said:
Never mind the reporting on “heated discussions” taking place. No opposing views, just everyone in agreement on what and how to do moving forward.Ledbetterman10 said:
I think people are paying attention to the fact that six city blocks have been "surrendered" so to speak, to protesters. I'm just kind of in the middle and waiting to see what will happen. Do I think it's a mini-militia like some on the right? No. Do I think it's a great social experiment that anything good will come from like some on the left? Again, no. As for calling it an "echo chamber," the definition of that term is "an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered." I think that's what it is. Which is to be expected of course. If someone in "CHAZ" were to try to make a positive argument about police, I don't think that would welcomed with healthy debate.oftenreading said:
From the look of it, plenty of people are paying attention. The fact that the quality of information is variable is not surprising. What makes you call it an echo chamber? Seems to be a fair amount of discussion, which likely will become clearer over time.Ledbetterman10 said:
Oh I agree peacefully gathering and protesting can cause change. I don't think this will though. What change is going come? No more police? Of course not. Police reform? Maybe based on the nationwide protests as a whole, but not by some city giving up six blocks to protesters.oftenreading said:
So you believe it’s impossible for people gathering peacefully in a spirit of community engagement to make changes in their own community? That’s quite odd. There is plenty of precedent for people to improve their communities in this manner.Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah of course you'd rather be a hippie block party. Who wouldn't? I'm just saying that's all it is. Brain being "thrilled" over the social experimentation and his hope that something good will come out of it, while well-meaning, is just delusional. It's not even a protest if there's no cops there to protest at. And it's not really a demonstration if it's not being widely broadcast, so people that don't share their opinion can't even be influenced by them. So it's nothing. Just young liberals hanging out...and there's nothing wrong with that. But that's all it is.oftenreading said:Ledbetterman10 said:
What good do you think could come from it? It's basically just a hippie block party.brianlux said:nicknyr15 said:This should end well.Ledbetterman10 said:
I wondering how it'll all end too. It's pretty peaceful now according to reports. But what's going to happen when the party's over and they're told to go home? If that day even comes.nicknyr15 said:This should end well.
It wouldn't surprise me if this ends differently than it started by being infiltrated by those who are fearful of social change. It's happened numerous times. Instead of focusing on what may happen or predicting a bad ending, I'm thrilled to see social experimentation and hopeful that something good will come out of what is happening NOW because right now, it's going well.
Given the choice between a hippie block party and an area full of police in riot gear harassing and harming citizens, I know where I'd rather be.I would also disagree with your opinion that it’s not a protest if there are no police to protest “at”. There is no requirement for a protest to be directly “at” a group for it to be effective. Case in point, Greta Thunberg’s protest, which started with her simply sitting quietly outside of school one day a week, I believe. The fact that she was not right in front of polluters was irrelevant.
As for the Greta comparison, you're saying that people don't need to be in front of the person they're protesting for them to hear. I agree. But who is hearing or listening to CHAZ right now? Seems like an echo chamber if there's no dissenting views or debate.Weekend begins in 8 minutes. Gotta go. Keep up on this story over the weekend for me.
Enjoy your weekend. Seattle will still be here on Monday.Ok....now....enjoy your weekend.2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com0 -
I never said laws were being broken; however, the whole premise of this movement was to have a self-governed, police-free (a.k.a lawless) zone, was it not? There have been reports of armed guards. I'm not on the ground there, so I cannot prove it. I'd bet most of us posting here have not walked the grounds (I think one or two may have), so it's hard for any of us to prove one way or the other. Taking over 6 city blocks, including a precinct that had to be boarded up and evacuated, seems to be walking a fine line of breaking the law though.Halifax2TheMax said:
Still believing in “armed guards?” Lawless societies? What laws are being violated? Are the laws of those six blocks being completely disregarded and ignored?bbiggs said:
Lawless societies with armed guards are a couple parallels that can be drawn. What happens when the city decides enough is enough and the party is over? It has the potential for a bad ending. Hopefully not.Halifax2TheMax said:
That’s a tad extreme. They’re not even close in comparison.bbiggs said:Can’t help but think this has the feel of a Waco, TX or Jonestown type environment operating under the guise of a peaceful protest. The whole thing is incredibly odd. Hopefully it doesn’t end like those two “gatherings” did.
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Police retract claims that Seattle's 'Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone' protesters tried to extort local businesses
https://www.businessinsider.com/seattle-police-retract-claim-of-autonomous-zone-extorting-businesses-2020-6?op=1&scrolla=5eb6d68b7fedc32c19ef33b4
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bbiggs said:
I never said laws were being broken; however, the whole premise of this movement was to have a self-governed, police-free (a.k.a lawless) zone, was it not? There have been reports of armed guards. I'm not on the ground there, so I cannot prove it. I'd bet most of us posting here have not walked the grounds (I think one or two may have), so it's hard for any of us to prove one way or the other. Taking over 6 city blocks, including a precinct that had to be boarded up and evacuated, seems to be walking a fine line of breaking the law though.Halifax2TheMax said:
Still believing in “armed guards?” Lawless societies? What laws are being violated? Are the laws of those six blocks being completely disregarded and ignored?bbiggs said:
Lawless societies with armed guards are a couple parallels that can be drawn. What happens when the city decides enough is enough and the party is over? It has the potential for a bad ending. Hopefully not.Halifax2TheMax said:
That’s a tad extreme. They’re not even close in comparison.bbiggs said:Can’t help but think this has the feel of a Waco, TX or Jonestown type environment operating under the guise of a peaceful protest. The whole thing is incredibly odd. Hopefully it doesn’t end like those two “gatherings” did.
"Lawless" is not equivalent to "police-free". That's not a helpful bottom line to take, if you're trying to understand the situation.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
I don’t watch Maddow, because I got tired of her repeating the same point six or seven times as if I’m really dumb and needed it repeated so often and I don’t watch tucker either. That said, it’s not as if I ignore the “other side’s” view point or reporting. But there is conservative reporting and, like the left, complete bullshit. Foreign and international sources are good too.Ledbetterman10 said:
I don’t look for conservative news sources (or any news sources based on what side of the aisle they lean) Rather, I look for conservative perspectives. And liberal ones too. Typically from Carlson and Maddow. Sure my eyes roll back in my head a lot while watching both, but it’s good to see what’s being preached to the viewers who only look for one perspective. I’d rather take both and decide for myself. It’s not hard to see through the bullshit. Maddow won’t show any looting or violence (these protests overall, not Seattle) despite there being some. And Carlson will show the hell out of it, but he’s running out so he continues to show looting from last week. You have to know what the bullshit. I have a friend that just got into politics. Unfortunately, through right wing youtubers. Now he watches Carlson. I warned him that while I watch him too, if that’s ALL you watch, you’ll be brainwashed. Same with the other side.Halifax2TheMax said:
Would love to know what your conservative news sources are. Fox? OAN? WSJ? Conservative Tree House? CYA Barr? Team Trump Treason tweets? Rushbo? Hannity? RT? TACC? You know, all the ones based on facts and steeped in data, to get you out of your bubble?Ledbetterman10 said:
Well I thought you had something new to offer. Not the same article as yesterday or whenever. Of course the Post is gonna paint it that way. And it may be the case, but who knows for sure.Halifax2TheMax said:
Funny that, you make a snarky comment about links and information and then admit to having “read” it and call me insufferable? Thanks for the laugh!Ledbetterman10 said:
Lord almighty you're insufferable. Yeah I saw your Washington post article, and I've seen some right-wing articles. So unlike you, who will just take the liberal side as gospel, I have weed through it all.Halifax2TheMax said:
Already been posted. Try to keep up. And both of which are better than nothing.Ledbetterman10 said:
Well where's the reporting? Usually you come equipped with an Apple News link or something.Halifax2TheMax said:
Never mind the reporting on “heated discussions” taking place. No opposing views, just everyone in agreement on what and how to do moving forward.Ledbetterman10 said:
I think people are paying attention to the fact that six city blocks have been "surrendered" so to speak, to protesters. I'm just kind of in the middle and waiting to see what will happen. Do I think it's a mini-militia like some on the right? No. Do I think it's a great social experiment that anything good will come from like some on the left? Again, no. As for calling it an "echo chamber," the definition of that term is "an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered." I think that's what it is. Which is to be expected of course. If someone in "CHAZ" were to try to make a positive argument about police, I don't think that would welcomed with healthy debate.oftenreading said:
From the look of it, plenty of people are paying attention. The fact that the quality of information is variable is not surprising. What makes you call it an echo chamber? Seems to be a fair amount of discussion, which likely will become clearer over time.Ledbetterman10 said:
Oh I agree peacefully gathering and protesting can cause change. I don't think this will though. What change is going come? No more police? Of course not. Police reform? Maybe based on the nationwide protests as a whole, but not by some city giving up six blocks to protesters.oftenreading said:
So you believe it’s impossible for people gathering peacefully in a spirit of community engagement to make changes in their own community? That’s quite odd. There is plenty of precedent for people to improve their communities in this manner.Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah of course you'd rather be a hippie block party. Who wouldn't? I'm just saying that's all it is. Brain being "thrilled" over the social experimentation and his hope that something good will come out of it, while well-meaning, is just delusional. It's not even a protest if there's no cops there to protest at. And it's not really a demonstration if it's not being widely broadcast, so people that don't share their opinion can't even be influenced by them. So it's nothing. Just young liberals hanging out...and there's nothing wrong with that. But that's all it is.oftenreading said:Ledbetterman10 said:
What good do you think could come from it? It's basically just a hippie block party.brianlux said:nicknyr15 said:This should end well.Ledbetterman10 said:
I wondering how it'll all end too. It's pretty peaceful now according to reports. But what's going to happen when the party's over and they're told to go home? If that day even comes.nicknyr15 said:This should end well.
It wouldn't surprise me if this ends differently than it started by being infiltrated by those who are fearful of social change. It's happened numerous times. Instead of focusing on what may happen or predicting a bad ending, I'm thrilled to see social experimentation and hopeful that something good will come out of what is happening NOW because right now, it's going well.
Given the choice between a hippie block party and an area full of police in riot gear harassing and harming citizens, I know where I'd rather be.I would also disagree with your opinion that it’s not a protest if there are no police to protest “at”. There is no requirement for a protest to be directly “at” a group for it to be effective. Case in point, Greta Thunberg’s protest, which started with her simply sitting quietly outside of school one day a week, I believe. The fact that she was not right in front of polluters was irrelevant.
As for the Greta comparison, you're saying that people don't need to be in front of the person they're protesting for them to hear. I agree. But who is hearing or listening to CHAZ right now? Seems like an echo chamber if there's no dissenting views or debate.Weekend begins in 8 minutes. Gotta go. Keep up on this story over the weekend for me.
Enjoy your weekend. Seattle will still be here on Monday.Ok....now....enjoy your weekend.
Is it Friday. I rarely know what day it is anymore. Enjoy.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Not the whole city. Just the Space Needle.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Was just going to say that. It wasn't a lawless mob that overtook the police and the precinct causing them to flee. It was a decision made by the mayor and the police chief (although yesterday she said it was the mayor). It was a de-escalation. There were hundreds of cops out on the streets there, blockades, national guard, etc... And every night the cops would end up firing tear gas grenades and spraying people with pepper spray at some point. So in an attempt to de-escalate they stood down. But not knowing what might happen to the building they ended up moving out records, and I suspect armaments, boarded up the windows, and put up some fencing around the building and left. It isn't as though the mob stormed the place and took it over.oftenreading said:bbiggs said:
I never said laws were being broken; however, the whole premise of this movement was to have a self-governed, police-free (a.k.a lawless) zone, was it not? There have been reports of armed guards. I'm not on the ground there, so I cannot prove it. I'd bet most of us posting here have not walked the grounds (I think one or two may have), so it's hard for any of us to prove one way or the other. Taking over 6 city blocks, including a precinct that had to be boarded up and evacuated, seems to be walking a fine line of breaking the law though.Halifax2TheMax said:
Still believing in “armed guards?” Lawless societies? What laws are being violated? Are the laws of those six blocks being completely disregarded and ignored?bbiggs said:
Lawless societies with armed guards are a couple parallels that can be drawn. What happens when the city decides enough is enough and the party is over? It has the potential for a bad ending. Hopefully not.Halifax2TheMax said:
That’s a tad extreme. They’re not even close in comparison.bbiggs said:Can’t help but think this has the feel of a Waco, TX or Jonestown type environment operating under the guise of a peaceful protest. The whole thing is incredibly odd. Hopefully it doesn’t end like those two “gatherings” did.
"Lawless" is not equivalent to "police-free". That's not a helpful bottom line to take, if you're trying to understand the situation."I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/080 -
Fair enough. Some see this as a constructive exercise taking place in Seattle. I do not. No harm, no foul.
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