Black Lives Matter

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  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    All lives matter
    Get outta here with this BS. How do some people still not get it?

    BLACK LIVES MATTER.



    Maybe you will listen to a Vedder if no one else. 

    BLACK LIVES MATTER.

    I totally agree that "Black Lives Matter" should be just that and not turned into something else. 

    But I totally disagree with your approach to "educating" someone on that concept.  You didn't educate, you chewed ass in a self-righteous manner on lastexitlondon, one of the best people on these forums- a caring, struggling, thoughtful, decent person.  That's just wrong, way wrong, and because of that, it fucks up your otherwise fundamentally right on message.  At the very least, you owe the dude an apology.
    I have an honest question.  I totally agree that black lives do matter yes.  I  Always have always will.
    I do not have a racist bone in my body.  So in my naivete, what phrase then would be acceptable if you do not want to offend anyone, but yet declare admiration, and acceptance and appreciation for black yellow, red, brown, & white?  I enjoy people, I enjoy and embrace the differences, but yet we're all part of the human race so we're different but not that different.  I believe every individual is uniquely different.  Everyone's DNA is different fingerprints are different, throughout all of humanity there has never been a repeat of any human being prior to today and never will be.
    How does one declare acceptance and appreciation for all the Races & Origins without offending one?  I just don't get it.
     I'm not looking for an argument I'm looking for clarity so I can be a better individual.
    You don't need a phrase to express that you aren't racist, you simply have to keep your mouth shut when a particular race is airing legitimate grievance and not try to minimize their position.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,817
    I agree that black lives matter.  I am very sympathetic to the legit grievances.  But black lives matter said exclusively for blacks, and keep your mouth shut, suggests that every other shade of human skin or ethnicity brown lives, yellow lives, red lives, and every shade of color or descent in between do not matter. 
    I guess I'm looking for a way to celebrate and greve with Black lives, while not dismissing every other race or ethnicity.  It just seems like an unproductive box to be painted into.
    Figuratively and literally I guess I'd like to see us all sit down at the same table and eat and drink together happily.
  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,817
    I'll expand my last point.
    I wish all could sit down at a huge unsegregated Round Table eat and drink in peace and harmony together, where every race is Honored, Understood, Recognized and Seen. and have a beautiful Round Table discussion.
    Get rid of all the hashtags and labels.

  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    RYME said:
    I agree that black lives matter.  I am very sympathetic to the legit grievances.  But black lives matter said exclusively for blacks, and keep your mouth shut, suggests that every other shade of human skin or ethnicity brown lives, yellow lives, red lives, and every shade of color or descent in between do not matter. 
    I guess I'm looking for a way to celebrate and greve with Black lives, while not dismissing every other race or ethnicity.  It just seems like an unproductive box to be painted into.
    Figuratively and literally I guess I'd like to see us all sit down at the same table and eat and drink together happily.
    It does not.  You fundamentally misunderstand both the intent and the very rules of language and grammar.  Scroll back up and look through the thread and you will hopefully see your error.  
    There are several cartoons and explanations that make it pretty clear.

    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,714
    RYME said:
    I agree that black lives matter.  I am very sympathetic to the legit grievances.  But black lives matter said exclusively for blacks, and keep your mouth shut, suggests that every other shade of human skin or ethnicity brown lives, yellow lives, red lives, and every shade of color or descent in between do not matter. 
    I guess I'm looking for a way to celebrate and greve with Black lives, while not dismissing every other race or ethnicity.  It just seems like an unproductive box to be painted into.
    Figuratively and literally I guess I'd like to see us all sit down at the same table and eat and drink together happily.
    You have fundamentally misunderstood the entire intent of the BLM movement. It has never said that black lives matter more, or that black lives are the only ones that matter. It simply says that black lives matter. Stop making up stories about what you imagine it means, and just listen when people in the movement tell you what it means. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    To reiterate, the phrase is NOT "only black lives matter" so there is no legitimate reason to try to turn it into that. 
    Would you show up at the Holocaust Museum and try to tell Jewish mourners that theirs wasn't the only
    victimized group, that gay and communist people were killed too?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 32,094
    rgambs said:
    RYME said:
    I agree that black lives matter.  I am very sympathetic to the legit grievances.  But black lives matter said exclusively for blacks, and keep your mouth shut, suggests that every other shade of human skin or ethnicity brown lives, yellow lives, red lives, and every shade of color or descent in between do not matter. 
    I guess I'm looking for a way to celebrate and greve with Black lives, while not dismissing every other race or ethnicity.  It just seems like an unproductive box to be painted into.
    Figuratively and literally I guess I'd like to see us all sit down at the same table and eat and drink together happily.
    It does not.  You fundamentally misunderstand both the intent and the very rules of language and grammar.  Scroll back up and look through the thread and you will hopefully see your error.  
    There are several cartoons and explanations that make it pretty clear.

    Well you did tell him to "shut his mouth" and that was a little harsh, cmon, not your best.

    But to @RYME, BLM is about inequality, police abuse, human rights for all.  There is a reason that every ethnicity is out there marching beside them.  They even have Law Enforcement marching WITH them.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 31,018
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  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,817
    rgambs said:
    To reiterate, the phrase is NOT "only black lives matter" so there is no legitimate reason to try to turn it into that. 
    Would you show up at the Holocaust Museum and try to tell Jewish mourners that theirs wasn't the only
    victimized group, that gay and communist people were killed too?
    It didn't take me until just the last few years BLM movement of any kind for me to suddenly feel and acknowledge that black lives matter.
    It is not a new thing for me, I have always believed that black lives matter.  And my black friends in my life know that about me.  And when I bump into some black people at the gas station or whatever that don't know me, I always hold the door for them and acknowledge them with respect.
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 4,262
    if you really want to piss some people off, on july 4 go around and tell all your right wing friends that ALL countries matter.

    You just wrote my July 4 Facebook post (assuming I haven't ditched Facebook by that point).
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  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    RYME said:
    rgambs said:
    To reiterate, the phrase is NOT "only black lives matter" so there is no legitimate reason to try to turn it into that. 
    Would you show up at the Holocaust Museum and try to tell Jewish mourners that theirs wasn't the only
    victimized group, that gay and communist people were killed too?
    It didn't take me until just the last few years BLM movement of any kind for me to suddenly feel and acknowledge that black lives matter.
    It is not a new thing for me, I have always believed that black lives matter.  And my black friends in my life know that about me.  And when I bump into some black people at the gas station or whatever that don't know me, I always hold the door for them and acknowledge them with respect.
    Groovy.  So then the next step is to ask yourself why you feel the need to add an asterisk to a statement you agree with... Why change the meaning of the statement to something you disagree with?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 32,094
    OnWis97 said:
    if you really want to piss some people off, on july 4 go around and tell all your right wing friends that ALL countries matter.

    You just wrote my July 4 Facebook post (assuming I haven't ditched Facebook by that point).
    I almost pissed myself reading this, lol!!!
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 37,312
    ^^^An interesting discussion about the phrase "Black Lives Matter".

    Personally, I'm not into slogans, labels and the like. I rarely if ever use them.   For me, it's more important to learn as much as reasonably possible about other people and act in a matter that is unoffensive to their beliefs or style or whatever.  And it's important to me to advocate for equality and fairness. 

    I was at a memorial in a home once.  Three of the guys that were friends of the deceased were black, everyone else in attendance was white.   At one point, I notice the black guys were outside by themselves.  I didn't know if they felt ostracized or just preferred to hang by themselves, but I knew one of them pretty well and hadn't had a chance to catch up with him so I thought I go out and say hello while I had the chance.  It wasn't about being PC and showing how cool I could be hanging with the minority dudes, it was about how I liked this one guy anyway and, to be honest, I liked the idea of hanging out with the brothers because they seemed like cool people.  When I went out and started said hello, I think they were surprised that a white dude wanted to hang out with them and before you know it, we were all talking away and having a good time.  I think they thought it was cool that I felt comfortable hanging with them. 

    I'd do the same with other people of color or other nationalities.  It's great rubbing elbows with people who are different. 

    "Black Lives Matter"? Yeah sure, OK.  But learning about and getting to know different kinds of people- that's where it's at for me.
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 7,308
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:
    Here’s why I don’t see an issue with all lives matter. After Michael Brown cops were targeted, ambushed and killed. Supporters of police started saying blue lives matter. Other non-black  groups have also been targeted. People were, and still are, placing signs in their window that read “black owned business” so that rioters and looters would skip over that place.
    I agree it is the minority of protestors, but you still didn’t have to watch much of the news to see mobs of violence. 

    So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

    when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

    And it doesn’t help their cause, people won’t forget George Floyd faster than when they start seeing pictures of cops who were murdered during a protest.
    That's a stretch.  I don't know why you feel the need to redefine something on other people's behalf so you can be comfortable with it. Is it just to be contrary?  Are you trying to make peace with your own reaction to BLM, or defend the position held by friends and/or family?  
    I don't get why exactly, but it's definitely unsavory.
    You don’t know what my stance is. I never respond to BLM by saying or chanting ALM.
    I understand both sides. 
    Killing random cops is what started BLM, which lead into ALM. Sorry that’s unsavory to you.
    Huh?
    You don’t remember 5 or 6 cops being executed shortly after BLM started? 
    I’m not saying it was BLM. I don’t remember al the details, some were NYC. Some were ambushed and shot in the head, I remember at least 1 or 2 being attacked with an axe. That’s when I started hearing blue lived matter. You don’t remember any of that?
    I don't really remember that, definitely possible. But killing random cops isn't what started BLM, it was the other way around obviously.
     Yes, police brutality stars yes Black LM. Killing random cops in response to police brutality is what started Blue LM.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    This is "all lives matter", this is the spirit of it.
    If you hear "black lives matter" and your first response is to think "all lives matter", then squash that part of you.  Stamp it out, because even if it's a poppy seed sentiment, this is the plant it grows into and the ugly flower it blooms 
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 37,312

    This guy is the worst kind of troll. 
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  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,940
    I’ve been hesitant to speak in this thread for fear of being misunderstood, but since at the moment this is largely a discussion about the phrase “Black Lives Matter”, there’s a thought that’s been running through my head as I’ve followed this discussion.

    Couldn’t at least some of the confusion have been avoided if the phrase was “Black Lives Matter Too”? To me it doesn’t water down any of the message but simply clarifies.

    From my own perspective I agree and sympathize with the BLM movement in the U.S., but feel the problem isn’t so much police brutality (which does happen, to be clear) as it is a matter of economic disparities that force many of the confrontations to occur.

    A friend of mine recently asserted that other minorities have been less discriminated against than Black people throughout North American history, a claim I’m not sure I agree with.

    All that said, I’m incredibly grateful I grew up in the multicultural mecca of Toronto, Canada. As well in my household colour was never anything more than a physical descriptor. Doesn’t mean I can’t learn from what’s currently happening though, so thank you to all in this thread (and elsewhere) for helping me in this.

    Now that the rioting has mostly stopped my only request of those out protesting is to try and be more mindful of the current viral pandemic. It occurred to me that images of the protests might be even more powerful if everyone took care to properly physically distance themselves.

     I hope I’m not being offensive in what and how I’ve said.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 32,094
    There were some idiots w the All Lives and Trump crap too in Smithtown the other day.  

    Nothing like trying to incite a riot, dear lord man.
  • lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 8,959
    If you dont use twitter or face book or instagram how would  you even know about this and the people doing these things. The media is very responsible  for causing hatred also. Like someone like me and the guy above heartfelt love for every human. Somehow a group  of what looks like trump fans are being  racist and  so people with love in their  heart can be put with these idiots in the video. Man its all a bit crazy. 
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  • lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 8,959
    Im trying to learn what is even going on . So here on this forum is where  im learning there are these people.  I may seem stupid but im not.  I just would  never see this kind of video because  i dont have  it coming into my phone.  Is what i mean. I see why the  phrase  is  angering people now.
    Its what  these idiots are doing . So who knowingly  would be like that on this  forum.
    I dont  know of anyone on here  acting  like that im sure we all agree here.
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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 19,997
    OnWis97 said:
    if you really want to piss some people off, on july 4 go around and tell all your right wing friends that ALL countries matter.

    You just wrote my July 4 Facebook post (assuming I haven't ditched Facebook by that point).
    I almost pissed myself reading this, lol!!!
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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 37,312
    I’ve been hesitant to speak in this thread for fear of being misunderstood, but since at the moment this is largely a discussion about the phrase “Black Lives Matter”, there’s a thought that’s been running through my head as I’ve followed this discussion.

    Couldn’t at least some of the confusion have been avoided if the phrase was “Black Lives Matter Too”? To me it doesn’t water down any of the message but simply clarifies.

    From my own perspective I agree and sympathize with the BLM movement in the U.S., but feel the problem isn’t so much police brutality (which does happen, to be clear) as it is a matter of economic disparities that force many of the confrontations to occur.

    A friend of mine recently asserted that other minorities have been less discriminated against than Black people throughout North American history, a claim I’m not sure I agree with.

    All that said, I’m incredibly grateful I grew up in the multicultural mecca of Toronto, Canada. As well in my household colour was never anything more than a physical descriptor. Doesn’t mean I can’t learn from what’s currently happening though, so thank you to all in this thread (and elsewhere) for helping me in this.

    Now that the rioting has mostly stopped my only request of those out protesting is to try and be more mindful of the current viral pandemic. It occurred to me that images of the protests might be even more powerful if everyone took care to properly physically distance themselves.

     I hope I’m not being offensive in what and how I’ve said.

    Good thoughts all, Darth.  I find nothing here offensive in the least. 
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
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  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 5,908
    What an obvious idiot that guy is. He is not what that blue line flag stands for at all. 
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 25,595
    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1270431720446164994?s=21
    I know Floyd’s brother is supposed to testify but this guy is also testifying 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,940
    brianlux said:
    I’ve been hesitant to speak in this thread for fear of being misunderstood, but since at the moment this is largely a discussion about the phrase “Black Lives Matter”, there’s a thought that’s been running through my head as I’ve followed this discussion.

    Couldn’t at least some of the confusion have been avoided if the phrase was “Black Lives Matter Too”? To me it doesn’t water down any of the message but simply clarifies.

    From my own perspective I agree and sympathize with the BLM movement in the U.S., but feel the problem isn’t so much police brutality (which does happen, to be clear) as it is a matter of economic disparities that force many of the confrontations to occur.

    A friend of mine recently asserted that other minorities have been less discriminated against than Black people throughout North American history, a claim I’m not sure I agree with.

    All that said, I’m incredibly grateful I grew up in the multicultural mecca of Toronto, Canada. As well in my household colour was never anything more than a physical descriptor. Doesn’t mean I can’t learn from what’s currently happening though, so thank you to all in this thread (and elsewhere) for helping me in this.

    Now that the rioting has mostly stopped my only request of those out protesting is to try and be more mindful of the current viral pandemic. It occurred to me that images of the protests might be even more powerful if everyone took care to properly physically distance themselves.

     I hope I’m not being offensive in what and how I’ve said.

    Good thoughts all, Darth.  I find nothing here offensive in the least. 
    Thanks Brian, appreciate the feedback, lol. Now I’m out into the muggy heat here to cut some grass, lol.
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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 4,262
    edited June 2020
    I’ve been hesitant to speak in this thread for fear of being misunderstood, but since at the moment this is largely a discussion about the phrase “Black Lives Matter”, there’s a thought that’s been running through my head as I’ve followed this discussion.

    Couldn’t at least some of the confusion have been avoided if the phrase was “Black Lives Matter Too”? To me it doesn’t water down any of the message but simply clarifies.

    From my own perspective I agree and sympathize with the BLM movement in the U.S., but feel the problem isn’t so much police brutality (which does happen, to be clear) as it is a matter of economic disparities that force many of the confrontations to occur.

    A friend of mine recently asserted that other minorities have been less discriminated against than Black people throughout North American history, a claim I’m not sure I agree with.

    All that said, I’m incredibly grateful I grew up in the multicultural mecca of Toronto, Canada. As well in my household colour was never anything more than a physical descriptor. Doesn’t mean I can’t learn from what’s currently happening though, so thank you to all in this thread (and elsewhere) for helping me in this.

    Now that the rioting has mostly stopped my only request of those out protesting is to try and be more mindful of the current viral pandemic. It occurred to me that images of the protests might be even more powerful if everyone took care to properly physically distance themselves.

     I hope I’m not being offensive in what and how I’ve said.

    I hope questions like this don't lead to people saying you're being offensive or whatever...it's an honest question. And it's the kind of dialog people should be able to have respectfully and not search for the negative intent or, even if someone is wrong, angrily "educate" them when respectfully doing so will work.

    Language and norms are so important...even when it can be so subtle.  In this case, my gut reaction was the "too" is that it could validate the idea that blacks are "lesser. I mean, don't kill them or anything; their lives matter, too but they are lesser."  I'm not sure that this is how it would be taken. But maybe.  So there's the "what's this say about black lives" and then there's "how will the white nationalists and apolitical whites react?"  And I suppose the "too" would make it harder for them to say "you're saying ours don't?" But they don't really believe that anyway.

    In short...maybe.  My gut reaction is that I like BLM (sans too) because even the negative reaction leads to dialog, as evidenced in this very thread.  But like I said, language is important in ways we don't even think about. The more I think about this, the more BLM and BLM, too seem the same.  But the difference would matter...I'm just not sure how.
    Post edited by OnWis97 on
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  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 4,653
    hrd2imgn said:
    All lives matter
    Yep, they ALL matter
    ...and they will "all matter" once black lives matter.
    You can also go and read a book or two and educate yourself about why saying "all lives matter" is ignorance personified.
    ...and they will "all matter" once black lives matter.

    I thought this explained it perfectly.
    This keeps the focus where it belongs while this issue is being resolved in society. I'm not worried that someone would think my life wouldn't matter. Be safe all and take good care of each other. Big hugs.
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  • Matts3221Matts3221 Posts: 646
    Im trying to learn what is even going on . So here on this forum is where  im learning there are these people.  I may seem stupid but im not.  I just would  never see this kind of video because  i dont have  it coming into my phone.  Is what i mean. I see why the  phrase  is  angering people now.
    Its what  these idiots are doing . So who knowingly  would be like that on this  forum.
    I dont  know of anyone on here  acting  like that im sure we all agree here.


    You are a good person Rob. I am not shaming you at all for what you said but will just input my two cents , I feel we are very connected so I don't think you will take any of this the wrong way.

    You don't live in the US.

    All Lives Matter has been the cat call of most people who refuse to accept that the united states was built on slaves and continued racism to this day. Every aspect from police to jail to school to how your life will go is in a very large part played on your skin color.

    To me All Lives Matter is the rally cry for those that don't want to admit our mistakes and our systemic racisms. Almost like an alcoholic can never get help if they don't first admit the problem , I find those that chant all lives matter over black lives matter to not admit the problem they are in denial.   

    Growing up in the an area that is 98% white you tend to not see what was happening the world , as an idiot teen I  know I used the N word as slang not as racist  ( that said there was not excuse for me using it even if I thought it was just a cool word to use , if it was 2020 and I was on tape my life would be over) I have learned and moved on to try to help the cause.

    I think if everyone took a step back we would see we all have our biases in this world , how can we not they have been hammered into our brains since birth , we can only learn , accept our past mistake and move forward.

    African Americans in this country must feel crazy because they have people telling them that racisms is a think of the past and we need to move on , they know this is not true , the people saying it know it is not true and it is basically gaslighting the whole black community.

    I think some of the cartoons or meme's people post make good points that others can possible understand.

    However I think some thought of you as a redneck racist when you posted that.

    I would highly suggest to everyone to watch John Oliver's last week tonight from Sunday June 7th ( Free on YouTube ) , if after watching all of it you still think all lives matter over black lives matter than you are an asshole. Sorry but its true , until Black Lives Matter in the US then All Lives Do not matter.

    Just my two cents.

  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 15,433
    brianlux said:
    I’ve been hesitant to speak in this thread for fear of being misunderstood, but since at the moment this is largely a discussion about the phrase “Black Lives Matter”, there’s a thought that’s been running through my head as I’ve followed this discussion.

    Couldn’t at least some of the confusion have been avoided if the phrase was “Black Lives Matter Too”? To me it doesn’t water down any of the message but simply clarifies.

    From my own perspective I agree and sympathize with the BLM movement in the U.S., but feel the problem isn’t so much police brutality (which does happen, to be clear) as it is a matter of economic disparities that force many of the confrontations to occur.

    A friend of mine recently asserted that other minorities have been less discriminated against than Black people throughout North American history, a claim I’m not sure I agree with.

    All that said, I’m incredibly grateful I grew up in the multicultural mecca of Toronto, Canada. As well in my household colour was never anything more than a physical descriptor. Doesn’t mean I can’t learn from what’s currently happening though, so thank you to all in this thread (and elsewhere) for helping me in this.

    Now that the rioting has mostly stopped my only request of those out protesting is to try and be more mindful of the current viral pandemic. It occurred to me that images of the protests might be even more powerful if everyone took care to properly physically distance themselves.

     I hope I’m not being offensive in what and how I’ve said.

    Good thoughts all, Darth.  I find nothing here offensive in the least. 
    Was having a discussion with a much further left friend of mine.  He stated the same.  We talked about the inability of some organizations (and the Dem Party) to brand themselves correctly.  Which causes the whole discussion to be about a name or a saying rather than the meat of the topic (or non-meat alternative for those V's).  I would love to live in a world where it started as "Black Lives Matter Too" and see if anything was different.  
    hippiemom = goodness
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