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Black Lives Matter

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 32,308
    tbergs said:
    brianlux said:
    I'll leave this thread to those enlightened saints here who never made an error or misunderstood a concept without feeling like being bullied, embarrassed or derided with the only proper way to learn a lesson.  Kindness and intelligent instruction just don't seem to fit your self-righteous styles.  Good luck with that making a positive change in the world.
    That's a very eloquent way to make it sound like those who don't always use tact are assholes. I'm sorry, but there are certain phrases and ways of thinking that do need to be called out at this juncture in time. You know what being ignorant about the statement "All Lives Matters" means in response to "Black Lives Matter"? That you are most likely a white person, even more likely that you are a white male, who does not understand what it means to be black because you don't even come close to living in the same stratosphere of inequality and injustice. As the oppressors, it is our job to educate ourselves and address the racial disparity that we continue to perpetuate due to lack of true, deep felt caring for the change and equality needed. We live in power so therefore it is never an urgent need to us. We complain about a building burning and sit atop our position of privilege telling others that's not going to help the situation, yet we do nothing, but flap our mouths for a few weeks and then move on to the next social justice cause that has taken over social media. You know the next big issue is just right around the corner and then everyone can make that their new hashtag. This is the world we live in. 

    I'll admit, I was an ignorant idiot years ago when this phrase first started being used, but I figured it out and came to recognize it's importance. I also didn't really understand the kneeling during the anthem at first, but that's because I am white and come from privilege, even if that privilege has nothing to do with wealth, there is a difference for just being born white. How many years of black people being killed at the hands of the police do we need to see before people get it? Apparently more because there are still millions of white people making their "white lives matter" or "blue lives matters" announcements to the world, like anyone has ever said or shown their lives don't matter. They have all the power and control and should be using it to make it seem like "all lives matter".

    Fuck, I'm done. I stepped away from this site Friday because I was fed up. I'm pissed at the police for how they have ruined and tainted their roles in the community and I'm pissed that it has come to chants of disband the police, but people are tired of this cycle of inaction.

    Everyone take care of themselves and use your voice to push for change in any way that you can. Maybe this will be a point in time we can look back on in 20 years and see as a when we finally got it.

    OK, so we are pissed off and angry at the abuse toward blacks (anyone with a heart would be).. So are we going to vent that anger at someone here who said something that was well intentioned even though, admittedly, uninformed about the concept of Black Lives Matter?  That's how some hope to teach someone else something they may not have seen clearly?  That's how we want to make the world better? 

    Educate, yes.  But by berating, by coming across as self-righteous?   I don't think it works that way.  If someone is doing something that is intentionally harmful or provocative, yeah, we might be able to excuse self-righteous anger and strong language.  But if someone makes a sincere mistake and we chew their ass out over it- that's going to be helpful?  I don't think so. 

    So then teach me.  What am I missing?
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 3,163
    mace1229 said:

    So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

    when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

    I think it’s far-fetched to believe that anyone saying all lives matter means it under those terms. Maybe less than 1%. 

    I don’t think violence is the answer. It’s unfortunate that cops do. 
    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
  • JW269453JW269453 Lubbock, TXPosts: 592
    mace1229 said:

    So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

    when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

    I think it’s far-fetched to believe that anyone saying all lives matter means it under those terms. Maybe less than 1%. 

    I don’t think violence is the answer. It’s unfortunate that cops do. 
    What percentage would you assign for this statement?

  • tbergstbergs Posts: 7,189
    hedonist said:
    Some of this is ridiculous. Educate by embarrassing, no exceptions. Because belittling someone really opens that door to learning, to another’s view. 

    If you feel someone doesn’t “get it”, how is berating them going to help? Would you want to try to learn that way?
    It doesn’t. But just like the people that like to carry guns around it makes them feel superior. They do it for themselves, not for any cause.

    No, it's just maddening to see the level of ignorance and privilege shine through. I wonder if this is what it was like when whites had to learn to stop saying the N word or stop calling black people racial slurs in general? God forbid we be straight forward about something that should be obvious after years of being front and center every time a black person is killed by the police. This isn't 1965, I don't have to live in the area and read the local paper or listen to a radio to hear world news. It's out there and all over and if you don't understand it, hey look, you're typing on a computer that can search millions of things in a second. Maybe take a minute and Google that phrase you don't quite get. It's not like this is an in-person conversation where it would be rude for me to take a minute and look at my phone.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 32,308
    tino_11 said:


    This is so right on.  I love how this little girl's sign instructs rather than berates. I guess some people seem to think it is better to chew out someone's ass instead of instruct in a kindly manner. I want to ask them, "Which method do you think is more effective?"
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,180
    mace1229 said:

    So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

    when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

    I think it’s far-fetched to believe that anyone saying all lives matter means it under those terms. Maybe less than 1%. 

    I don’t think violence is the answer. It’s unfortunate that cops do. 
    I also think it’s far fetched to lump all cops together say they think violence is the answer.

    That’s when I remember that phrase first being used, I don’t see it being that far fetched at all.
  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 3,163
    brianlux said:
    tbergs said:
    brianlux said:
    I'll leave this thread to those enlightened saints here who never made an error or misunderstood a concept without feeling like being bullied, embarrassed or derided with the only proper way to learn a lesson.  Kindness and intelligent instruction just don't seem to fit your self-righteous styles.  Good luck with that making a positive change in the world.
    That's a very eloquent way to make it sound like those who don't always use tact are assholes. I'm sorry, but there are certain phrases and ways of thinking that do need to be called out at this juncture in time. You know what being ignorant about the statement "All Lives Matters" means in response to "Black Lives Matter"? That you are most likely a white person, even more likely that you are a white male, who does not understand what it means to be black because you don't even come close to living in the same stratosphere of inequality and injustice. As the oppressors, it is our job to educate ourselves and address the racial disparity that we continue to perpetuate due to lack of true, deep felt caring for the change and equality needed. We live in power so therefore it is never an urgent need to us. We complain about a building burning and sit atop our position of privilege telling others that's not going to help the situation, yet we do nothing, but flap our mouths for a few weeks and then move on to the next social justice cause that has taken over social media. You know the next big issue is just right around the corner and then everyone can make that their new hashtag. This is the world we live in. 

    I'll admit, I was an ignorant idiot years ago when this phrase first started being used, but I figured it out and came to recognize it's importance. I also didn't really understand the kneeling during the anthem at first, but that's because I am white and come from privilege, even if that privilege has nothing to do with wealth, there is a difference for just being born white. How many years of black people being killed at the hands of the police do we need to see before people get it? Apparently more because there are still millions of white people making their "white lives matter" or "blue lives matters" announcements to the world, like anyone has ever said or shown their lives don't matter. They have all the power and control and should be using it to make it seem like "all lives matter".

    Fuck, I'm done. I stepped away from this site Friday because I was fed up. I'm pissed at the police for how they have ruined and tainted their roles in the community and I'm pissed that it has come to chants of disband the police, but people are tired of this cycle of inaction.

    Everyone take care of themselves and use your voice to push for change in any way that you can. Maybe this will be a point in time we can look back on in 20 years and see as a when we finally got it.

    OK, so we are pissed off and angry at the abuse toward blacks (anyone with a heart would be).. So are we going to vent that anger at someone here who said something that was well intentioned even though, admittedly, uninformed about the concept of Black Lives Matter?  That's how some hope to teach someone else something they may not have seen clearly?  That's how we want to make the world better? 

    Educate, yes.  But by berating, by coming across as self-righteous?   I don't think it works that way.  If someone is doing something that is intentionally harmful or provocative, yeah, we might be able to excuse self-righteous anger and strong language.  But if someone makes a sincere mistake and we chew their ass out over it- that's going to be helpful?  I don't think so. 

    So then teach me.  What am I missing?
    My initial response was not extreme in any way. I think it was appropriate given the current climate. You make it seem as though I just continued to shit on this individual and hating him and then call me self-righteous AND start a thread in response to it? Whose response was over the top you think? I don’t know him (or you), I don’t hate him (or you), but I did hate the one response he chose to this thread initially. Again, I am glad he sought out more information. 
    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,199
    mace1229 said:
    Here’s why I don’t see an issue with all lives matter. After Michael Brown cops were targeted, ambushed and killed. Supporters of police started saying blue lives matter. Other non-black  groups have also been targeted. People were, and still are, placing signs in their window that read “black owned business” so that rioters and looters would skip over that place.
    I agree it is the minority of protestors, but you still didn’t have to watch much of the news to see mobs of violence. 

    So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

    when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

    And it doesn’t help their cause, people won’t forget George Floyd faster than when they start seeing pictures of cops who were murdered during a protest.
    That's a stretch.  I don't know why you feel the need to redefine something on other people's behalf so you can be comfortable with it. Is it just to be contrary?  Are you trying to make peace with your own reaction to BLM, or defend the position held by friends and/or family?  
    I don't get why exactly, but it's definitely unsavory.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 3,163
    brianlux said:
    tino_11 said:


    This is so right on.  I love how this little girl's sign instructs rather than berates. I guess some people seem to think it is better to chew out someone's ass instead of instruct in a kindly manner. I want to ask them, "Which method do you think is more effective?"
    IT is a great sign. So is the post from mrs. Vedder that I posted. But apparently that was berating. 
    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,180
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:
    Here’s why I don’t see an issue with all lives matter. After Michael Brown cops were targeted, ambushed and killed. Supporters of police started saying blue lives matter. Other non-black  groups have also been targeted. People were, and still are, placing signs in their window that read “black owned business” so that rioters and looters would skip over that place.
    I agree it is the minority of protestors, but you still didn’t have to watch much of the news to see mobs of violence. 

    So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

    when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

    And it doesn’t help their cause, people won’t forget George Floyd faster than when they start seeing pictures of cops who were murdered during a protest.
    That's a stretch.  I don't know why you feel the need to redefine something on other people's behalf so you can be comfortable with it. Is it just to be contrary?  Are you trying to make peace with your own reaction to BLM, or defend the position held by friends and/or family?  
    I don't get why exactly, but it's definitely unsavory.
    You don’t know what my stance is. I never respond to BLM by saying or chanting ALM.
    I understand both sides. 
    Killing random cops is what started BLM, which lead into ALM. Sorry that’s unsavory to you.
  • dignindignin Posts: 8,624
    mace1229 said:
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:
    Here’s why I don’t see an issue with all lives matter. After Michael Brown cops were targeted, ambushed and killed. Supporters of police started saying blue lives matter. Other non-black  groups have also been targeted. People were, and still are, placing signs in their window that read “black owned business” so that rioters and looters would skip over that place.
    I agree it is the minority of protestors, but you still didn’t have to watch much of the news to see mobs of violence. 

    So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

    when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

    And it doesn’t help their cause, people won’t forget George Floyd faster than when they start seeing pictures of cops who were murdered during a protest.
    That's a stretch.  I don't know why you feel the need to redefine something on other people's behalf so you can be comfortable with it. Is it just to be contrary?  Are you trying to make peace with your own reaction to BLM, or defend the position held by friends and/or family?  
    I don't get why exactly, but it's definitely unsavory.
    You don’t know what my stance is. I never respond to BLM by saying or chanting ALM.
    I understand both sides. 
    Killing random cops is what started BLM, which lead into ALM. Sorry that’s unsavory to you.
    Huh?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 32,308
    brianlux said:
    tbergs said:
    brianlux said:
    I'll leave this thread to those enlightened saints here who never made an error or misunderstood a concept without feeling like being bullied, embarrassed or derided with the only proper way to learn a lesson.  Kindness and intelligent instruction just don't seem to fit your self-righteous styles.  Good luck with that making a positive change in the world.
    That's a very eloquent way to make it sound like those who don't always use tact are assholes. I'm sorry, but there are certain phrases and ways of thinking that do need to be called out at this juncture in time. You know what being ignorant about the statement "All Lives Matters" means in response to "Black Lives Matter"? That you are most likely a white person, even more likely that you are a white male, who does not understand what it means to be black because you don't even come close to living in the same stratosphere of inequality and injustice. As the oppressors, it is our job to educate ourselves and address the racial disparity that we continue to perpetuate due to lack of true, deep felt caring for the change and equality needed. We live in power so therefore it is never an urgent need to us. We complain about a building burning and sit atop our position of privilege telling others that's not going to help the situation, yet we do nothing, but flap our mouths for a few weeks and then move on to the next social justice cause that has taken over social media. You know the next big issue is just right around the corner and then everyone can make that their new hashtag. This is the world we live in. 

    I'll admit, I was an ignorant idiot years ago when this phrase first started being used, but I figured it out and came to recognize it's importance. I also didn't really understand the kneeling during the anthem at first, but that's because I am white and come from privilege, even if that privilege has nothing to do with wealth, there is a difference for just being born white. How many years of black people being killed at the hands of the police do we need to see before people get it? Apparently more because there are still millions of white people making their "white lives matter" or "blue lives matters" announcements to the world, like anyone has ever said or shown their lives don't matter. They have all the power and control and should be using it to make it seem like "all lives matter".

    Fuck, I'm done. I stepped away from this site Friday because I was fed up. I'm pissed at the police for how they have ruined and tainted their roles in the community and I'm pissed that it has come to chants of disband the police, but people are tired of this cycle of inaction.

    Everyone take care of themselves and use your voice to push for change in any way that you can. Maybe this will be a point in time we can look back on in 20 years and see as a when we finally got it.

    OK, so we are pissed off and angry at the abuse toward blacks (anyone with a heart would be).. So are we going to vent that anger at someone here who said something that was well intentioned even though, admittedly, uninformed about the concept of Black Lives Matter?  That's how some hope to teach someone else something they may not have seen clearly?  That's how we want to make the world better? 

    Educate, yes.  But by berating, by coming across as self-righteous?   I don't think it works that way.  If someone is doing something that is intentionally harmful or provocative, yeah, we might be able to excuse self-righteous anger and strong language.  But if someone makes a sincere mistake and we chew their ass out over it- that's going to be helpful?  I don't think so. 

    So then teach me.  What am I missing?
    My initial response was not extreme in any way. I think it was appropriate given the current climate. You make it seem as though I just continued to shit on this individual and hating him and then call me self-righteous AND start a thread in response to it? Whose response was over the top you think? I don’t know him (or you), I don’t hate him (or you), but I did hate the one response he chose to this thread initially. Again, I am glad he sought out more information. 

    He and I have have been around here a good while.  Maybe get to know someone a little better before passing judgement next time.
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • dignindignin Posts: 8,624
    brianlux said:
    tbergs said:
    brianlux said:
    I'll leave this thread to those enlightened saints here who never made an error or misunderstood a concept without feeling like being bullied, embarrassed or derided with the only proper way to learn a lesson.  Kindness and intelligent instruction just don't seem to fit your self-righteous styles.  Good luck with that making a positive change in the world.
    That's a very eloquent way to make it sound like those who don't always use tact are assholes. I'm sorry, but there are certain phrases and ways of thinking that do need to be called out at this juncture in time. You know what being ignorant about the statement "All Lives Matters" means in response to "Black Lives Matter"? That you are most likely a white person, even more likely that you are a white male, who does not understand what it means to be black because you don't even come close to living in the same stratosphere of inequality and injustice. As the oppressors, it is our job to educate ourselves and address the racial disparity that we continue to perpetuate due to lack of true, deep felt caring for the change and equality needed. We live in power so therefore it is never an urgent need to us. We complain about a building burning and sit atop our position of privilege telling others that's not going to help the situation, yet we do nothing, but flap our mouths for a few weeks and then move on to the next social justice cause that has taken over social media. You know the next big issue is just right around the corner and then everyone can make that their new hashtag. This is the world we live in. 

    I'll admit, I was an ignorant idiot years ago when this phrase first started being used, but I figured it out and came to recognize it's importance. I also didn't really understand the kneeling during the anthem at first, but that's because I am white and come from privilege, even if that privilege has nothing to do with wealth, there is a difference for just being born white. How many years of black people being killed at the hands of the police do we need to see before people get it? Apparently more because there are still millions of white people making their "white lives matter" or "blue lives matters" announcements to the world, like anyone has ever said or shown their lives don't matter. They have all the power and control and should be using it to make it seem like "all lives matter".

    Fuck, I'm done. I stepped away from this site Friday because I was fed up. I'm pissed at the police for how they have ruined and tainted their roles in the community and I'm pissed that it has come to chants of disband the police, but people are tired of this cycle of inaction.

    Everyone take care of themselves and use your voice to push for change in any way that you can. Maybe this will be a point in time we can look back on in 20 years and see as a when we finally got it.

    OK, so we are pissed off and angry at the abuse toward blacks (anyone with a heart would be).. So are we going to vent that anger at someone here who said something that was well intentioned even though, admittedly, uninformed about the concept of Black Lives Matter?  That's how some hope to teach someone else something they may not have seen clearly?  That's how we want to make the world better? 

    Educate, yes.  But by berating, by coming across as self-righteous?   I don't think it works that way.  If someone is doing something that is intentionally harmful or provocative, yeah, we might be able to excuse self-righteous anger and strong language.  But if someone makes a sincere mistake and we chew their ass out over it- that's going to be helpful?  I don't think so. 

    So then teach me.  What am I missing?
    My initial response was not extreme in any way. I think it was appropriate given the current climate. You make it seem as though I just continued to shit on this individual and hating him and then call me self-righteous AND start a thread in response to it? Whose response was over the top you think? I don’t know him (or you), I don’t hate him (or you), but I did hate the one response he chose to this thread initially. Again, I am glad he sought out more information. 
    I see nothing wrong with what you have said here and I found it completely appropriate. 
  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 3,163
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    tbergs said:
    brianlux said:
    I'll leave this thread to those enlightened saints here who never made an error or misunderstood a concept without feeling like being bullied, embarrassed or derided with the only proper way to learn a lesson.  Kindness and intelligent instruction just don't seem to fit your self-righteous styles.  Good luck with that making a positive change in the world.
    That's a very eloquent way to make it sound like those who don't always use tact are assholes. I'm sorry, but there are certain phrases and ways of thinking that do need to be called out at this juncture in time. You know what being ignorant about the statement "All Lives Matters" means in response to "Black Lives Matter"? That you are most likely a white person, even more likely that you are a white male, who does not understand what it means to be black because you don't even come close to living in the same stratosphere of inequality and injustice. As the oppressors, it is our job to educate ourselves and address the racial disparity that we continue to perpetuate due to lack of true, deep felt caring for the change and equality needed. We live in power so therefore it is never an urgent need to us. We complain about a building burning and sit atop our position of privilege telling others that's not going to help the situation, yet we do nothing, but flap our mouths for a few weeks and then move on to the next social justice cause that has taken over social media. You know the next big issue is just right around the corner and then everyone can make that their new hashtag. This is the world we live in. 

    I'll admit, I was an ignorant idiot years ago when this phrase first started being used, but I figured it out and came to recognize it's importance. I also didn't really understand the kneeling during the anthem at first, but that's because I am white and come from privilege, even if that privilege has nothing to do with wealth, there is a difference for just being born white. How many years of black people being killed at the hands of the police do we need to see before people get it? Apparently more because there are still millions of white people making their "white lives matter" or "blue lives matters" announcements to the world, like anyone has ever said or shown their lives don't matter. They have all the power and control and should be using it to make it seem like "all lives matter".

    Fuck, I'm done. I stepped away from this site Friday because I was fed up. I'm pissed at the police for how they have ruined and tainted their roles in the community and I'm pissed that it has come to chants of disband the police, but people are tired of this cycle of inaction.

    Everyone take care of themselves and use your voice to push for change in any way that you can. Maybe this will be a point in time we can look back on in 20 years and see as a when we finally got it.

    OK, so we are pissed off and angry at the abuse toward blacks (anyone with a heart would be).. So are we going to vent that anger at someone here who said something that was well intentioned even though, admittedly, uninformed about the concept of Black Lives Matter?  That's how some hope to teach someone else something they may not have seen clearly?  That's how we want to make the world better? 

    Educate, yes.  But by berating, by coming across as self-righteous?   I don't think it works that way.  If someone is doing something that is intentionally harmful or provocative, yeah, we might be able to excuse self-righteous anger and strong language.  But if someone makes a sincere mistake and we chew their ass out over it- that's going to be helpful?  I don't think so. 

    So then teach me.  What am I missing?
    My initial response was not extreme in any way. I think it was appropriate given the current climate. You make it seem as though I just continued to shit on this individual and hating him and then call me self-righteous AND start a thread in response to it? Whose response was over the top you think? I don’t know him (or you), I don’t hate him (or you), but I did hate the one response he chose to this thread initially. Again, I am glad he sought out more information. 

    He and I have have been around here a good while.  Maybe get to know someone a little better before passing judgement next time.
    In turn, people should be careful about what they choose to post. If that is the only response on a thread like this, it is pretty damn hard not to assume someones position. What about my response was truly so horrible brianlux? 

    For example, someone would get far worse treatment here for posting “Trump is great” as their only response. Would people really take the calm way here to understand why before passing judgement about their position?  Be honest, I know how this place. Would we just assume people are still ignorant to Trump and his ways?

    (For the record, I do not support Trump. Just an example before someone twists it.) 


    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 14,431
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    tbergs said:
    brianlux said:
    I'll leave this thread to those enlightened saints here who never made an error or misunderstood a concept without feeling like being bullied, embarrassed or derided with the only proper way to learn a lesson.  Kindness and intelligent instruction just don't seem to fit your self-righteous styles.  Good luck with that making a positive change in the world.
    That's a very eloquent way to make it sound like those who don't always use tact are assholes. I'm sorry, but there are certain phrases and ways of thinking that do need to be called out at this juncture in time. You know what being ignorant about the statement "All Lives Matters" means in response to "Black Lives Matter"? That you are most likely a white person, even more likely that you are a white male, who does not understand what it means to be black because you don't even come close to living in the same stratosphere of inequality and injustice. As the oppressors, it is our job to educate ourselves and address the racial disparity that we continue to perpetuate due to lack of true, deep felt caring for the change and equality needed. We live in power so therefore it is never an urgent need to us. We complain about a building burning and sit atop our position of privilege telling others that's not going to help the situation, yet we do nothing, but flap our mouths for a few weeks and then move on to the next social justice cause that has taken over social media. You know the next big issue is just right around the corner and then everyone can make that their new hashtag. This is the world we live in. 

    I'll admit, I was an ignorant idiot years ago when this phrase first started being used, but I figured it out and came to recognize it's importance. I also didn't really understand the kneeling during the anthem at first, but that's because I am white and come from privilege, even if that privilege has nothing to do with wealth, there is a difference for just being born white. How many years of black people being killed at the hands of the police do we need to see before people get it? Apparently more because there are still millions of white people making their "white lives matter" or "blue lives matters" announcements to the world, like anyone has ever said or shown their lives don't matter. They have all the power and control and should be using it to make it seem like "all lives matter".

    Fuck, I'm done. I stepped away from this site Friday because I was fed up. I'm pissed at the police for how they have ruined and tainted their roles in the community and I'm pissed that it has come to chants of disband the police, but people are tired of this cycle of inaction.

    Everyone take care of themselves and use your voice to push for change in any way that you can. Maybe this will be a point in time we can look back on in 20 years and see as a when we finally got it.

    OK, so we are pissed off and angry at the abuse toward blacks (anyone with a heart would be).. So are we going to vent that anger at someone here who said something that was well intentioned even though, admittedly, uninformed about the concept of Black Lives Matter?  That's how some hope to teach someone else something they may not have seen clearly?  That's how we want to make the world better? 

    Educate, yes.  But by berating, by coming across as self-righteous?   I don't think it works that way.  If someone is doing something that is intentionally harmful or provocative, yeah, we might be able to excuse self-righteous anger and strong language.  But if someone makes a sincere mistake and we chew their ass out over it- that's going to be helpful?  I don't think so. 

    So then teach me.  What am I missing?
    My initial response was not extreme in any way. I think it was appropriate given the current climate. You make it seem as though I just continued to shit on this individual and hating him and then call me self-righteous AND start a thread in response to it? Whose response was over the top you think? I don’t know him (or you), I don’t hate him (or you), but I did hate the one response he chose to this thread initially. Again, I am glad he sought out more information. 

    He and I have have been around here a good while.  Maybe get to know someone a little better before passing judgement next time.
    In turn, people should be careful about what they choose to post. If that is the only response on a thread like this, it is pretty damn hard not to assume someones position. What about my response was truly so horrible brianlux? 

    For example, someone would get far worse treatment here for posting “Trump is great” as their only response. Would people really take the calm way here to understand why before passing judgement about their position?  Be honest, I know how this place. Would we just assume people are still ignorant to Trump and his ways?

    (For the record, I do not support Trump. Just an example before someone twists it.) 


    How can you be FOR BLM and think Trump is GREAT?!?!!!!? What’s wrong with you!!!!


    hippiemom = goodness
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 32,308
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    tbergs said:
    brianlux said:
    I'll leave this thread to those enlightened saints here who never made an error or misunderstood a concept without feeling like being bullied, embarrassed or derided with the only proper way to learn a lesson.  Kindness and intelligent instruction just don't seem to fit your self-righteous styles.  Good luck with that making a positive change in the world.
    That's a very eloquent way to make it sound like those who don't always use tact are assholes. I'm sorry, but there are certain phrases and ways of thinking that do need to be called out at this juncture in time. You know what being ignorant about the statement "All Lives Matters" means in response to "Black Lives Matter"? That you are most likely a white person, even more likely that you are a white male, who does not understand what it means to be black because you don't even come close to living in the same stratosphere of inequality and injustice. As the oppressors, it is our job to educate ourselves and address the racial disparity that we continue to perpetuate due to lack of true, deep felt caring for the change and equality needed. We live in power so therefore it is never an urgent need to us. We complain about a building burning and sit atop our position of privilege telling others that's not going to help the situation, yet we do nothing, but flap our mouths for a few weeks and then move on to the next social justice cause that has taken over social media. You know the next big issue is just right around the corner and then everyone can make that their new hashtag. This is the world we live in. 

    I'll admit, I was an ignorant idiot years ago when this phrase first started being used, but I figured it out and came to recognize it's importance. I also didn't really understand the kneeling during the anthem at first, but that's because I am white and come from privilege, even if that privilege has nothing to do with wealth, there is a difference for just being born white. How many years of black people being killed at the hands of the police do we need to see before people get it? Apparently more because there are still millions of white people making their "white lives matter" or "blue lives matters" announcements to the world, like anyone has ever said or shown their lives don't matter. They have all the power and control and should be using it to make it seem like "all lives matter".

    Fuck, I'm done. I stepped away from this site Friday because I was fed up. I'm pissed at the police for how they have ruined and tainted their roles in the community and I'm pissed that it has come to chants of disband the police, but people are tired of this cycle of inaction.

    Everyone take care of themselves and use your voice to push for change in any way that you can. Maybe this will be a point in time we can look back on in 20 years and see as a when we finally got it.

    OK, so we are pissed off and angry at the abuse toward blacks (anyone with a heart would be).. So are we going to vent that anger at someone here who said something that was well intentioned even though, admittedly, uninformed about the concept of Black Lives Matter?  That's how some hope to teach someone else something they may not have seen clearly?  That's how we want to make the world better? 

    Educate, yes.  But by berating, by coming across as self-righteous?   I don't think it works that way.  If someone is doing something that is intentionally harmful or provocative, yeah, we might be able to excuse self-righteous anger and strong language.  But if someone makes a sincere mistake and we chew their ass out over it- that's going to be helpful?  I don't think so. 

    So then teach me.  What am I missing?
    My initial response was not extreme in any way. I think it was appropriate given the current climate. You make it seem as though I just continued to shit on this individual and hating him and then call me self-righteous AND start a thread in response to it? Whose response was over the top you think? I don’t know him (or you), I don’t hate him (or you), but I did hate the one response he chose to this thread initially. Again, I am glad he sought out more information. 

    He and I have have been around here a good while.  Maybe get to know someone a little better before passing judgement next time.
    In turn, people should be careful about what they choose to post. If that is the only response on a thread like this, it is pretty damn hard not to assume someones position. What about my response was truly so horrible brianlux? 

    For example, someone would get far worse treatment here for posting “Trump is great” as their only response. Would people really take the calm way here to understand why before passing judgement about their position?  Be honest, I know how this place. Would we just assume people are still ignorant to Trump and his ways?

    (For the record, I do not support Trump. Just an example before someone twists it.) 



    You said this to someone you admit you don't know anything about:

    "Get outta here with this BS. How do some people still not get it?"

    If that doesn't sound offensive to you... I guess I'm done here.

    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 3,163
    So I have to know everyone I respond to? A post, a tweet, an image, etc is all a reflection of yourself to the outside world. I think assumptions are valid. 

    Again, just like someone that posts they love Trump. What would you assume? 
    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 7,189
    edited June 8
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    tbergs said:
    brianlux said:
    I'll leave this thread to those enlightened saints here who never made an error or misunderstood a concept without feeling like being bullied, embarrassed or derided with the only proper way to learn a lesson.  Kindness and intelligent instruction just don't seem to fit your self-righteous styles.  Good luck with that making a positive change in the world.
    That's a very eloquent way to make it sound like those who don't always use tact are assholes. I'm sorry, but there are certain phrases and ways of thinking that do need to be called out at this juncture in time. You know what being ignorant about the statement "All Lives Matters" means in response to "Black Lives Matter"? That you are most likely a white person, even more likely that you are a white male, who does not understand what it means to be black because you don't even come close to living in the same stratosphere of inequality and injustice. As the oppressors, it is our job to educate ourselves and address the racial disparity that we continue to perpetuate due to lack of true, deep felt caring for the change and equality needed. We live in power so therefore it is never an urgent need to us. We complain about a building burning and sit atop our position of privilege telling others that's not going to help the situation, yet we do nothing, but flap our mouths for a few weeks and then move on to the next social justice cause that has taken over social media. You know the next big issue is just right around the corner and then everyone can make that their new hashtag. This is the world we live in. 

    I'll admit, I was an ignorant idiot years ago when this phrase first started being used, but I figured it out and came to recognize it's importance. I also didn't really understand the kneeling during the anthem at first, but that's because I am white and come from privilege, even if that privilege has nothing to do with wealth, there is a difference for just being born white. How many years of black people being killed at the hands of the police do we need to see before people get it? Apparently more because there are still millions of white people making their "white lives matter" or "blue lives matters" announcements to the world, like anyone has ever said or shown their lives don't matter. They have all the power and control and should be using it to make it seem like "all lives matter".

    Fuck, I'm done. I stepped away from this site Friday because I was fed up. I'm pissed at the police for how they have ruined and tainted their roles in the community and I'm pissed that it has come to chants of disband the police, but people are tired of this cycle of inaction.

    Everyone take care of themselves and use your voice to push for change in any way that you can. Maybe this will be a point in time we can look back on in 20 years and see as a when we finally got it.

    OK, so we are pissed off and angry at the abuse toward blacks (anyone with a heart would be).. So are we going to vent that anger at someone here who said something that was well intentioned even though, admittedly, uninformed about the concept of Black Lives Matter?  That's how some hope to teach someone else something they may not have seen clearly?  That's how we want to make the world better? 

    Educate, yes.  But by berating, by coming across as self-righteous?   I don't think it works that way.  If someone is doing something that is intentionally harmful or provocative, yeah, we might be able to excuse self-righteous anger and strong language.  But if someone makes a sincere mistake and we chew their ass out over it- that's going to be helpful?  I don't think so. 

    So then teach me.  What am I missing?
    My initial response was not extreme in any way. I think it was appropriate given the current climate. You make it seem as though I just continued to shit on this individual and hating him and then call me self-righteous AND start a thread in response to it? Whose response was over the top you think? I don’t know him (or you), I don’t hate him (or you), but I did hate the one response he chose to this thread initially. Again, I am glad he sought out more information. 

    He and I have have been around here a good while.  Maybe get to know someone a little better before passing judgement next time.
    In turn, people should be careful about what they choose to post. If that is the only response on a thread like this, it is pretty damn hard not to assume someones position. What about my response was truly so horrible brianlux? 

    For example, someone would get far worse treatment here for posting “Trump is great” as their only response. Would people really take the calm way here to understand why before passing judgement about their position?  Be honest, I know how this place. Would we just assume people are still ignorant to Trump and his ways?

    (For the record, I do not support Trump. Just an example before someone twists it.) 



    You said this to someone you admit you don't know anything about:

    "Get outta here with this BS. How do some people still not get it?"

    If that doesn't sound offensive to you... I guess I'm done here.

    Brian, you're always calm and rational around here, but I gotta disagree. He didn't attack or call the poster names. He called out the statement made and that is it. That's actually a pretty mild response. Lucky that we're all mostly white middle aged men on this forum. I don't think you'd get kindness and understanding if that statement was posed anywhere besides far right websites.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 6,335
    I must  be the  1%. As i had no idea it was a phrase used to be in anyway bad. So again i can only say im sorry i wasnt educated about it . I meant well.
    brixton 93
    astoria 06
    albany 06
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    reading 06
    barcelona 06
    paris 06
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    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 16,214

    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 7,189
    I must  be the  1%. As i had no idea it was a phrase used to be in anyway bad. So again i can only say im sorry i wasnt educated about it . I meant well.
    It's ok. No one here thinks you had any ill intention or thinks bad of you. Your sincerity is appreciated. Let's move on. 
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 3,163
    I must  be the  1%. As i had no idea it was a phrase used to be in anyway bad. So again i can only say im sorry i wasnt educated about it . I meant well.
    And at this point I do believe you and thank you for turning to someone that could help you understand. I’m sorry if anything I said sounds aggressive, it is just becoming all too common to run into people saying it in response to BLM and it is exhausting. Especially in South Carolina. 
    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
  • lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 6,335
    I understand now. I live just on the outskirts of london. And im not in the  middle of it all like you guys. I did ask my daughter and she explained  people use it in a bad way. So yeah i was being loving in my mind and its not what happened. So yeah move on i will leave it here  as i dont know enough to really contribute. Thanks
    brixton 93
    astoria 06
    albany 06
    hartford 06
    reading 06
    barcelona 06
    paris 06
    wembley 07
    dusseldorf 07
    nijmegen 07

    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 32,308
    tbergs said:
    I must  be the  1%. As i had no idea it was a phrase used to be in anyway bad. So again i can only say im sorry i wasnt educated about it . I meant well.
    It's ok. No one here thinks you had any ill intention or thinks bad of you. Your sincerity is appreciated. Let's move on. 

    I must  be the  1%. As i had no idea it was a phrase used to be in anyway bad. So again i can only say im sorry i wasnt educated about it . I meant well.
    And at this point I do believe you and thank you for turning to someone that could help you understand. I’m sorry if anything I said sounds aggressive, it is just becoming all too common to run into people saying it in response to BLM and it is exhausting. Especially in South Carolina. 

    And my apologies if I was misunderstanding or stirring shit.  Thanks all for your clarification. 
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,180
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:
    Here’s why I don’t see an issue with all lives matter. After Michael Brown cops were targeted, ambushed and killed. Supporters of police started saying blue lives matter. Other non-black  groups have also been targeted. People were, and still are, placing signs in their window that read “black owned business” so that rioters and looters would skip over that place.
    I agree it is the minority of protestors, but you still didn’t have to watch much of the news to see mobs of violence. 

    So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

    when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

    And it doesn’t help their cause, people won’t forget George Floyd faster than when they start seeing pictures of cops who were murdered during a protest.
    That's a stretch.  I don't know why you feel the need to redefine something on other people's behalf so you can be comfortable with it. Is it just to be contrary?  Are you trying to make peace with your own reaction to BLM, or defend the position held by friends and/or family?  
    I don't get why exactly, but it's definitely unsavory.
    You don’t know what my stance is. I never respond to BLM by saying or chanting ALM.
    I understand both sides. 
    Killing random cops is what started BLM, which lead into ALM. Sorry that’s unsavory to you.
    Huh?
    You don’t remember 5 or 6 cops being executed shortly after BLM started? 
    I’m not saying it was BLM. I don’t remember al the details, some were NYC. Some were ambushed and shot in the head, I remember at least 1 or 2 being attacked with an axe. That’s when I started hearing blue lived matter. You don’t remember any of that?
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 17,793
    if you really want to piss some people off, on july 4 go around and tell all your right wing friends that ALL countries matter.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • dignindignin Posts: 8,624
    mace1229 said:
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:
    Here’s why I don’t see an issue with all lives matter. After Michael Brown cops were targeted, ambushed and killed. Supporters of police started saying blue lives matter. Other non-black  groups have also been targeted. People were, and still are, placing signs in their window that read “black owned business” so that rioters and looters would skip over that place.
    I agree it is the minority of protestors, but you still didn’t have to watch much of the news to see mobs of violence. 

    So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

    when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

    And it doesn’t help their cause, people won’t forget George Floyd faster than when they start seeing pictures of cops who were murdered during a protest.
    That's a stretch.  I don't know why you feel the need to redefine something on other people's behalf so you can be comfortable with it. Is it just to be contrary?  Are you trying to make peace with your own reaction to BLM, or defend the position held by friends and/or family?  
    I don't get why exactly, but it's definitely unsavory.
    You don’t know what my stance is. I never respond to BLM by saying or chanting ALM.
    I understand both sides. 
    Killing random cops is what started BLM, which lead into ALM. Sorry that’s unsavory to you.
    Huh?
    You don’t remember 5 or 6 cops being executed shortly after BLM started? 
    I’m not saying it was BLM. I don’t remember al the details, some were NYC. Some were ambushed and shot in the head, I remember at least 1 or 2 being attacked with an axe. That’s when I started hearing blue lived matter. You don’t remember any of that?
    I don't really remember that, definitely possible. But killing random cops isn't what started BLM, it was the other way around obviously.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 17,793
    i could be wrong, but i believe that BLM started after michael brown was killed by a cop 15 minutes from here.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,817
    brianlux said:
    All lives matter
    Get outta here with this BS. How do some people still not get it?

    BLACK LIVES MATTER.



    Maybe you will listen to a Vedder if no one else. 

    BLACK LIVES MATTER.

    I totally agree that "Black Lives Matter" should be just that and not turned into something else. 

    But I totally disagree with your approach to "educating" someone on that concept.  You didn't educate, you chewed ass in a self-righteous manner on lastexitlondon, one of the best people on these forums- a caring, struggling, thoughtful, decent person.  That's just wrong, way wrong, and because of that, it fucks up your otherwise fundamentally right on message.  At the very least, you owe the dude an apology.
    I have an honest question.  I totally agree that black lives do matter yes.  I  Always have always will.
    I do not have a racist bone in my body.  So in my naivete, what phrase then would be acceptable if you do not want to offend anyone, but yet declare admiration, and acceptance and appreciation for black yellow, red, brown, & white?  I enjoy people, I enjoy and embrace the differences, but yet we're all part of the human race so we're different but not that different.  I believe every individual is uniquely different.  Everyone's DNA is different fingerprints are different, throughout all of humanity there has never been a repeat of any human being prior to today and never will be.
    How does one declare acceptance and appreciation for all the Races & Origins without offending one?  I just don't get it.
     I'm not looking for an argument I'm looking for clarity so I can be a better individual.
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 16,214
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    All lives matter
    Get outta here with this BS. How do some people still not get it?

    BLACK LIVES MATTER.



    Maybe you will listen to a Vedder if no one else. 

    BLACK LIVES MATTER.

    I totally agree that "Black Lives Matter" should be just that and not turned into something else. 

    But I totally disagree with your approach to "educating" someone on that concept.  You didn't educate, you chewed ass in a self-righteous manner on lastexitlondon, one of the best people on these forums- a caring, struggling, thoughtful, decent person.  That's just wrong, way wrong, and because of that, it fucks up your otherwise fundamentally right on message.  At the very least, you owe the dude an apology.
    I have an honest question.  I totally agree that black lives do matter yes.  I  Always have always will.
    I do not have a racist bone in my body.  So in my naivete, what phrase then would be acceptable if you do not want to offend anyone, but yet declare admiration, and acceptance and appreciation for black yellow, red, brown, & white?  I enjoy people, I enjoy and embrace the differences, but yet we're all part of the human race so we're different but not that different.  I believe every individual is uniquely different.  Everyone's DNA is different fingerprints are different, throughout all of humanity there has never been a repeat of any human being prior to today and never will be.
    How does one declare acceptance and appreciation for all the Races & Origins without offending one?  I just don't get it.
     I'm not looking for an argument I'm looking for clarity so I can be a better individual.
    The phrase you are looking for is "all lives matter." Just don't use it as a reactionary reply to "black lives matter," and you should be OK.

    Having said that, I don't really see the need to proclaim "all lives matter" out of the blue unless you're a damn filthy hippie.
    I SAW PEARL JAM
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