Police abuse

tempo_n_groove said:

cblock4life said:

Now is not the time.  There are times when certain professions deserve applause at 7 every night, etc.
Please concentrate on what matters right now, ending police brutality, assisting minorities to gain equality, ensuring that you actively pursue assisting and encouraging people to vote.  I’m not fighting with you, it’s not for me to change how you feel about the police, just asking that you and everyone remain vigilant about correcting the problems we face right now. 

I'm all for the change too, I just don't want the baby thrown out with the bathwater.  That is how innocent people get hurt.

Innocent people are being hurt, that's why all this hullabaloo is going on.  George Floyd should be alive.  Breona Taylor should be alive.  Philando Castille should be alive.  The list goes on and on and on, and it's a hell of a lot longer (and more innocent) than the list on the other side.

tempo_n_groove said:

cblock4life said:

Now is not the time.  There are times when certain professions deserve applause at 7 every night, etc.
Please concentrate on what matters right now, ending police brutality, assisting minorities to gain equality, ensuring that you actively pursue assisting and encouraging people to vote.  I’m not fighting with you, it’s not for me to change how you feel about the police, just asking that you and everyone remain vigilant about correcting the problems we face right now. 

I'm all for the change too, I just don't want the baby thrown out with the bathwater.  That is how innocent people get hurt.

For sure I hear you...I have a real issue with (as a former officer posted on here) the attitudes and control issues officers have. But seeing so many officers join the protesters gives me hope.  I just don’t think the majority of protesters want to hear about showing love to the police right now.  In fact, I think black Americans are more forgiving than white Americans or at least they forgive sooner out of their fear of god and knowing that forgiveness is the ultimate show of loving everyone. The easiest way to earn respect and trust is to give it. I think both of these are missing on both sides. 

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cblock4life said:

Now is not the time.  There are times when certain professions deserve applause at 7 every night, etc.
Please concentrate on what matters right now, ending police brutality, assisting minorities to gain equality, ensuring that you actively pursue assisting and encouraging people to vote.  I’m not fighting with you, it’s not for me to change how you feel about the police, just asking that you and everyone remain vigilant about correcting the problems we face right now. 

I'm all for the change too, I just don't want the baby thrown out with the bathwater.  That is how innocent people get hurt.

Innocent people are being hurt, that's why all this hullabaloo is going on.  George Floyd should be alive.  Breona Taylor should be alive.  Philando Castille should be alive.  The list goes on and on and on, and it's a hell of a lot longer (and more innocent) than the list on the other side.

So out goes the baby then, got it.

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

pjl44 said:

PJNB said:

I have asked what I consider good local police officers that are friends and family members of mine the same question as to what I am going to ask here and have never really gotten a good response. If there are only a few bad apples in the police force why are the good ones allowing the bad ones to tarnish their name and drag them in the mud too? Why are they not policing each other and calling the bad cops out more often? In my field of work if someone is not doing their job safely or putting someones else's life on the line that shit is called out immediately and the problem is fixed one way or another whether through retraining or suspension/being fired. Why are cops not able to control their own? It honestly baffles me. 

I think the biggest part is the fraternity that comes from the union. It permeates everything - for example, I have an LEO buddy who has gotten out of drunk driving more than once by flashing his badge to the cop who pulled him over. That's the subtext behind the thin blue line iconography - from flags to bumper stickers.

Reason published a good opinion piece on this topic today.

https://reason.com/2020/06/03/its-time-to-bust-police-unions/?amp&__twitter_impression=true

We call that "Professional Courtesy".  They get to park wherever, speed wherever, drink and drive.  I get it.

Some states a cop will flash a badge and it means nothing though.  My cousin tried that in Virginia and still got a ticket.

You get it, as in you agree with it?
Or just that you are aware of it? 

Does it matter either way?

I am aware of it obviously.

Does it matter if you think police should have the "professional courtesy" to break the law and drive drunk?
Um, yeah, it matters lol
That's a position that drains any credibility on the topic just as quickly as advocating for violence against police.

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cblock4life said:

Now is not the time.  There are times when certain professions deserve applause at 7 every night, etc.
Please concentrate on what matters right now, ending police brutality, assisting minorities to gain equality, ensuring that you actively pursue assisting and encouraging people to vote.  I’m not fighting with you, it’s not for me to change how you feel about the police, just asking that you and everyone remain vigilant about correcting the problems we face right now. 

I'm all for the change too, I just don't want the baby thrown out with the bathwater.  That is how innocent people get hurt.

Innocent people are being hurt, that's why all this hullabaloo is going on.  George Floyd should be alive.  Breona Taylor should be alive.  Philando Castille should be alive.  The list goes on and on and on, and it's a hell of a lot longer (and more innocent) than the list on the other side.

So out goes the baby then, got it.

Nope, you don't got it.  You minimized the suffering at the hands of police by speaking of people getting hurt as if it is some future prospect that will occur IF people don't lighten up on police.  The fact that I reminded you is that they are already getting hurt. 
If you want to pretend that's me, lending support to a "war on police", then you can, but it's not your best work. 

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

pjl44 said:

PJNB said:

I have asked what I consider good local police officers that are friends and family members of mine the same question as to what I am going to ask here and have never really gotten a good response. If there are only a few bad apples in the police force why are the good ones allowing the bad ones to tarnish their name and drag them in the mud too? Why are they not policing each other and calling the bad cops out more often? In my field of work if someone is not doing their job safely or putting someones else's life on the line that shit is called out immediately and the problem is fixed one way or another whether through retraining or suspension/being fired. Why are cops not able to control their own? It honestly baffles me. 

I think the biggest part is the fraternity that comes from the union. It permeates everything - for example, I have an LEO buddy who has gotten out of drunk driving more than once by flashing his badge to the cop who pulled him over. That's the subtext behind the thin blue line iconography - from flags to bumper stickers.

Reason published a good opinion piece on this topic today.

https://reason.com/2020/06/03/its-time-to-bust-police-unions/?amp&__twitter_impression=true

We call that "Professional Courtesy".  They get to park wherever, speed wherever, drink and drive.  I get it.

Some states a cop will flash a badge and it means nothing though.  My cousin tried that in Virginia and still got a ticket.

You get it, as in you agree with it?
Or just that you are aware of it? 

Does it matter either way?

I am aware of it obviously.

Does it matter if you think police should have the "professional courtesy" to break the law and drive drunk?
Um, yeah, it matters lol
That's a position that drains any credibility on the topic just as quickly as advocating for violence against police.

pjl44 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Busting the unions isn't a good idea though.  They are trying to break the teachers union too which I don't like.

The unions need to clean their own houses and we would get better results.

That would be welcome but I think you'd be hard pressed to find many people who believe that's happening anytime soon 

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1268517884038389761?s=19

I lumped you both together here for this.

I will never forget watching the NYPD turn their backs on De Blasio, literally turn their backs when he spoke at a fallen cops funeral.  That was no time for politics.

That being said maybe busting the union wouldn't be a bad idea but it will never happen.  They are powerful and they get special perks for being a cop that I disagree with heavily where at the same time I want good cops protected and not lumped in with all the bad ones but it may be a losing battle.

When good cops stop protecting bad cops then they will not be lumped with them. Easier said then done with decades of this shit going on.

I'm sure everybody has noticed that the young protesters are so enthusiastic and full of hope. I saw one black girl address Trump as "sir" when she wanted to say something to him on tv. She knew that if she went home and wasn't respectful, no matter who it was about, then she'd get slapped up side the head (not literally, figuratively). 

And then there's the talks and interviews with the older black athletes, community leaders, etc....And there's despair and hope is a fainting memory and you can hear it in their voices.  They've heard it all before...400 years worth, so what is different now? 

Young adults and teenagers seem to get it.  Maybe that means parents are finally emphasizing the importance of peace.  I'm sure some are still influenced by racist parents, but the majority of them seem to lean more to the peaceful side. 

If they all vote, then they will be responsible for the change.

This happens 3 days after George Floyd?

https://youtu.be/LHx-LH9mFOg

cblock4life said:

If they all vote, then they will be responsible for the change.

Then expect status quo.
They just don't vote.

pjl44 said:

We have some cosponsors 

https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/1268575974075043840?s=19

You can sue for a wrongful death case, no?

I hear about departments being sued all the time so I am not sure what difference this would bring about rather than people suing because they think their rights are being abused or were rather.

What am I missing?