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Police abuse

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  • cutzcutz Posts: 10,229
    OnWis97 said:
    It’s about the power and the adrenaline rush.

    https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/police-officer-sued-for-flipping-pregnant-womans-car-when-she-didnt-stop-fast-enough/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    “She should have complied!”  Well, she did. She did exactly what the state textbook said she should do. She knew the law, and the cop didn’t.

    WOW !

    Just curious, but what was she being pulled over for?
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,848
    cutz said:
    OnWis97 said:
    It’s about the power and the adrenaline rush.

    https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/police-officer-sued-for-flipping-pregnant-womans-car-when-she-didnt-stop-fast-enough/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    “She should have complied!”  Well, she did. She did exactly what the state textbook said she should do. She knew the law, and the cop didn’t.
    h
    WOW !

    Just curious, but what was she being pulled over for?
    I believe it was speeding.  Somebody who, by these accounts, was not a danger or a fugitive was run down and nearly killed for her $250 ticket.

    Is this cop a jackass? Yeah. Are all cops like this? No. But I don't think the problem is about the individuals but about the culture. I feel like the police culture has sort evolved into flexing their power and authority and to take it personally if someone doesn't follow their instructions to the T, regardless if what they're doing is a legit threat.  OK, so I'm not privy to what goes on in these stationhouses, but I just don't get the sense that protecting and serving is the overriding theme. It seems like it's more about authority. It feels like it's worse than it was decades ago (though maybe it's just better-covered now that we all have cameras. See King, Rodney). Maybe there's just more pushback on the pedestalization.  

    Can the nationwide culture change?  Change to protect/serve? Change to diminish the self-importance that this guy must have felt? Change so not using your gun for an entire career is a good thing?  Because we can talk about bad cops, but I really think there's too much bad for it just to be the bad apples; it's the culture. They've started to believe the "hero" hype that was heaped upon them for so long.
    1995 Milwaukee
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  • cblock4lifecblock4life Posts: 525
    OnWis97 said:
    cutz said:
    OnWis97 said:
    It’s about the power and the adrenaline rush.

    https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/police-officer-sued-for-flipping-pregnant-womans-car-when-she-didnt-stop-fast-enough/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    “She should have complied!”  Well, she did. She did exactly what the state textbook said she should do. She knew the law, and the cop didn’t.
    WOW !

    Just curious, but what was she being pulled over for?
    I believe it was speeding.  Somebody who, by these accounts, was not a danger or a fugitive was run down and nearly killed for her $250 ticket.

    Is this cop a jackass? Yeah. Are all cops like this? No. But I don't think the problem is about the individuals but about the culture. I feel like the police culture has sort evolved into flexing their power and authority and to take it personally if someone doesn't follow their instructions to the T, regardless if what they're doing is a legit threat.  OK, so I'm not privy to what goes on in these stationhouses, but I just don't get the sense that protecting and serving is the overriding theme. It seems like it's more about authority. It feels like it's worse than it was decades ago (though maybe it's just better-covered now that we all have cameras. See King, Rodney). Maybe there's just more pushback on the pedestalization.  

    Can the nationwide culture change?  Change to protect/serve? Change to diminish the self-importance that this guy must have felt? Change so not using your gun for an entire career is a good thing?  Because we can talk about bad cops, but I really think there's too much bad for it just to be the bad apples; it's the culture. They've started to believe the "hero" hype that was heaped upon them for so long.
    Very well said. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,230
    mace1229 said:
    The problem with the law in this case is it’s subjective. What’s safe for the cop may not seem safe for the driver. I won’t be surprised to see laws like this changed to be more explicit and define unsafe conditions, like a shoulder less than x feet wide, etc.
    As I said above, still incredibly stupid thing for the cop to do.
    i wouldn't call doing a PIT move on a speeding vehicle that wasn't fleeing subjective. that is never necessary inlaw/code that situation. 
    I wasn’t referring to the PIT being subjective, but the law/code whatever it is that states to put on flashers and slow down if there is no safe area to pull over. What is safe? That’s subjective.
    Im not defending the cop, I think it’s totally ridiculous what he did. I just think cities are going to be more clear and explicit on what is and isn’t safe. Even if he didn’t do the PIT and just followed her for 5 miles before she pulled over would it be fair for her to be arrested for “fleeing” because she didn’t feel safe to pull over for 5 miles. No, so the law needs to be clear on that.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 27,603
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    The problem with the law in this case is it’s subjective. What’s safe for the cop may not seem safe for the driver. I won’t be surprised to see laws like this changed to be more explicit and define unsafe conditions, like a shoulder less than x feet wide, etc.
    As I said above, still incredibly stupid thing for the cop to do.
    i wouldn't call doing a PIT move on a speeding vehicle that wasn't fleeing subjective. that is never necessary inlaw/code that situation. 
    I wasn’t referring to the PIT being subjective, but the law/code whatever it is that states to put on flashers and slow down if there is no safe area to pull over. What is safe? That’s subjective.
    Im not defending the cop, I think it’s totally ridiculous what he did. I just think cities are going to be more clear and explicit on what is and isn’t safe. Even if he didn’t do the PIT and just followed her for 5 miles before she pulled over would it be fair for her to be arrested for “fleeing” because she didn’t feel safe to pull over for 5 miles. No, so the law needs to be clear on that.
    gotcha, yes, I'm sure it is a grey area. it most likely states something like "pull over when it is safe to do so" but you're right in that is subjective. Obviously this cop gives no fucks about safety if he overturned a person's car for no reason. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,164
    They'll all be fired if it was just for vaping but somehow I think there is more to the story.
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,993
    They'll all be fired if it was just for vaping but somehow I think there is more to the story.
    Well I think the reason for the taser was that he started lowering his left hand towards his pocket. But there's further video that shows, when the cops are trying to restrain him, a cop kneeing him. 


    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now.

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,164
    They'll all be fired if it was just for vaping but somehow I think there is more to the story.
    Well I think the reason for the taser was that he started lowering his left hand towards his pocket. But there's further video that shows, when the cops are trying to restrain him, a cop kneeing him. 


    If that cop doesn't have a great reason for kneeing that guy then he will be losing his job too.

    I can't fathom why he would need to do that.  It made the crowd react, which they should do, but then people get carried away in handcuffs.

    I hope more comes out about this.  Optics aren't good.
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,993
    I doubt he has a good reason for kneeing him. Even if he was resisting, there's enough cops on top of him to restrain him without having to come to blows. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now.

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,164
    I doubt he has a good reason for kneeing him. Even if he was resisting, there's enough cops on top of him to restrain him without having to come to blows. 
    Yeah it boggles my mind.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,438
    as usual citizen video comes part way in an altercation. provides actual text narrative, which may or may not be accurate. some actions seen are absolutlely egregious.

    I want to see first contact and everything that followed.
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 27,603
    "take off your backpack!!"
    *reaches for backpack*
    *gets tazed for reaching for backpack*
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,993
    "take off your backpack!!"
    *reaches for backpack*
    *gets tazed for reaching for backpack*
    I can't really hear them say "take off your backpack," but his arm motion definitely seems like that's what he was trying to do. 

    I'd like to see what happened before that. If he was just vaping, he doesn't need to be surrounded by four officers with tasers drawn. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now.

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,438

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,311
    Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police

    https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier

    Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020. 
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,164
    CM189191 said:
    Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police

    https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier

    Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020. 
    Not abuse.
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,311
    CM189191 said:
    Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police

    https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier

    Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020. 
    Not abuse.
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abuse

    1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:



    it's abuse
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,164
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police

    https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier

    Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020. 
    Not abuse.
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abuse

    1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:



    it's abuse
    The cop accidently crashed into him.  What was the cop abusing?  His driving?  He was chasing down an armed robber.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,230
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police

    https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier

    Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020. 
    Not abuse.
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abuse

    1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:



    it's abuse
    The cop accidently crashed into him.  What was the cop abusing?  His driving?  He was chasing down an armed robber.
    And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.
    “The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
    I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,438
    situational awareness should also cone into play in these cases
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,164
    mickeyrat said:
    situational awareness should also cone into play in these cases
    Arguing the situation is like saying Sully could have made it safely back to the airport.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,438
    edited July 8
    mickeyrat said:
    situational awareness should also cone into play in these cases
    Arguing the situation is like saying Sully could have made it safely back to the airport.

    not knowing the complete circumstances of this particular chase, I will say that just because policy allowed an action does mean it should be acted upon in every single instance.

    location, time of day, usual traffic patterns, am I the only one giving chase. just a few of the considerations I would hope would be taken into account.

    case in point, several years ago local deputy initiates a chase. on a secondary artery. one that runs through 90% residential area.  Lot of side streets and alleys. significant % of residents in that area are pedestrian or bicycle riders , as well as far to many kids. Mid day.....

    Deputy T-bones and kills a driver uninvolved in the chase , exercising right of way via light from a side street. Deputy was doing well over 100 mph.

    Situational awareness was lacking or ignored, cuz hot damn I got a chase. So given those facts in the moment, should that chase have occurred? Local PD had a 6 helicopter fleet then now down to 5. Dont recall if they were called in.
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,311
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police

    https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier

    Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020. 
    Not abuse.
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abuse

    1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:



    it's abuse
    The cop accidently crashed into him.  What was the cop abusing?  His driving?  He was chasing down an armed robber.
    And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.
    “The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
    I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
    Just because something is legal, don't make it right



    Here's the intersection where it happened.  Residential area. 

    Cop was reckless.
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,164
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    situational awareness should also cone into play in these cases
    Arguing the situation is like saying Sully could have made it safely back to the airport.

    not knowing the complete circumstances of this particular chase, I will say that just because policy allowed an action does mean it should be acted upon in every single instance.

    location, time of day, usual traffic patterns, am I the only one giving chase. just a few of the considerations I would hope would be taken into account.

    case in point, several years ago local deputy initiates a chase. on a secondary artery. one that runs through 90% residential area.  Lot of side streets and alleys. significant % of residents in that area are pedestrian or bicycle riders , as well as far to many kids. Mid day.....

    Deputy T-bones and kills a driver uninvolved in the chase , exercising right of way via light from a side street. Deputy was doing well over 100 mph.

    Situational awareness was lacking or ignored, cuz hot damn I got a chase. So given those facts in the moment, should that chase have occurred? Local PD had a 6 helicopter fleet then now down to 5. Dont recall if they were called in.
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police

    https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier

    Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020. 
    Not abuse.
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abuse

    1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:



    it's abuse
    The cop accidently crashed into him.  What was the cop abusing?  His driving?  He was chasing down an armed robber.
    And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.
    “The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
    I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
    Just because something is legal, don't make it right



    Here's the intersection where it happened.  Residential area. 

    Cop was reckless.
    A chase can be argued that it shouldn't occur.  Call in the helicopter, I'm all for that.

    If you want to pick apart what he should have done while in pursuit and having to make quick judgement decisions is where I have a problem with.

    Don't give a cop the right to chase then.  Ever.

    It's like saying the cop can only give chase on the freeway on weekends when there isn't any traffic.  
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,311
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    situational awareness should also cone into play in these cases
    Arguing the situation is like saying Sully could have made it safely back to the airport.

    not knowing the complete circumstances of this particular chase, I will say that just because policy allowed an action does mean it should be acted upon in every single instance.

    location, time of day, usual traffic patterns, am I the only one giving chase. just a few of the considerations I would hope would be taken into account.

    case in point, several years ago local deputy initiates a chase. on a secondary artery. one that runs through 90% residential area.  Lot of side streets and alleys. significant % of residents in that area are pedestrian or bicycle riders , as well as far to many kids. Mid day.....

    Deputy T-bones and kills a driver uninvolved in the chase , exercising right of way via light from a side street. Deputy was doing well over 100 mph.

    Situational awareness was lacking or ignored, cuz hot damn I got a chase. So given those facts in the moment, should that chase have occurred? Local PD had a 6 helicopter fleet then now down to 5. Dont recall if they were called in.
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police

    https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier

    Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020. 
    Not abuse.
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abuse

    1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:



    it's abuse
    The cop accidently crashed into him.  What was the cop abusing?  His driving?  He was chasing down an armed robber.
    And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.
    “The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
    I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
    Just because something is legal, don't make it right



    Here's the intersection where it happened.  Residential area. 

    Cop was reckless.
    A chase can be argued that it shouldn't occur.  Call in the helicopter, I'm all for that.

    If you want to pick apart what he should have done while in pursuit and having to make quick judgement decisions is where I have a problem with.

    Don't give a cop the right to chase then.  Ever.

    It's like saying the cop can only give chase on the freeway on weekends when there isn't any traffic.  

    I'm ok with this.  Cops shouldn't be giving pursuit in their cars, ever.

    Police need to de-escalate situations.  I don't see how giving chase does that.


    There were 1,699 fatal crashes involving police chases from 2014-2018, killing at least 2,005 people – 1,123 were not the driver of the fleeing vehicle.

    Among those killed were:
    882 fleeing drivers
    337 fleeing vehicle passengers
    21 police officers
    765 bystanders (occupants of uninvolved vehicles or non-motorists)
    75 non-motorists (67 pedestrians, 5 bicyclists and 3 on another means of personal conveyance)


    Even when a fleeing suspect is caught, they are seldom charged with a violent crime.  California publishes a report each year in accordance with Senate Bill 719.  According to the most recent version of this report, only 15.6 percent of apprehended drivers were charged with a violent crime.

    https://www.thefinelawfirm.com/people-killed-in-police-chases/
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,230
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police

    https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier

    Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020. 
    Not abuse.
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abuse

    1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:



    it's abuse
    The cop accidently crashed into him.  What was the cop abusing?  His driving?  He was chasing down an armed robber.
    And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.
    “The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
    I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
    Just because something is legal, don't make it right



    Here's the intersection where it happened.  Residential area. 

    Cop was reckless.
    Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.
    And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,438
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police

    https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier

    Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020. 
    Not abuse.
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abuse

    1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:



    it's abuse
    The cop accidently crashed into him.  What was the cop abusing?  His driving?  He was chasing down an armed robber.
    And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.
    “The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
    I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
    Just because something is legal, don't make it right



    Here's the intersection where it happened.  Residential area. 

    Cop was reckless.
    Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.
    And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.
    excuse me, SUSPECTED car jack.

    likely was but reporting doesnt say they knew for a fact.

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,164
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police

    https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier

    Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020. 
    Not abuse.
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abuse

    1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:



    it's abuse
    The cop accidently crashed into him.  What was the cop abusing?  His driving?  He was chasing down an armed robber.
    And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.
    “The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
    I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
    Just because something is legal, don't make it right



    Here's the intersection where it happened.  Residential area. 

    Cop was reckless.
    Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.
    And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.
    excuse me, SUSPECTED car jack.

    likely was but reporting doesnt say they knew for a fact.

    Suspects flee the scene running red lights because they are innocent?

    Sure.

    Like above stated.  Abolish the chases.  Eye in the sky then road blacks and pit maneuvers when no one is around.

    This still isn't abuse though.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,438
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police

    https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier

    Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020. 
    Not abuse.
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abuse

    1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:



    it's abuse
    The cop accidently crashed into him.  What was the cop abusing?  His driving?  He was chasing down an armed robber.
    And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.
    “The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
    I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
    Just because something is legal, don't make it right



    Here's the intersection where it happened.  Residential area. 

    Cop was reckless.
    Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.
    And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.
    excuse me, SUSPECTED car jack.

    likely was but reporting doesnt say they knew for a fact.

    Suspects flee the scene running red lights because they are innocent?

    Sure.

    Like above stated.  Abolish the chases.  Eye in the sky then road blacks and pit maneuvers when no one is around.

    This still isn't abuse though.

    is there a misconduct thread I am unaware of?  even within policy this was misconduct.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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