Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

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Comments

  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,525
    I'm sitting this one out
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    people know who trump is and a significant majority are rejecting him. 

    any reasonable person does not want the shit stain on their conscience of having voted for him twice.
    Remember one of his key pitches in 16 was "What have you got to lose?"  Now we know.. 100k lives and millions of jobs.  
    If Democrats try to lay the totality of the coronavirus pandemic at his feet, voters will see through that
    Trump will be playing hardball.  I'm not saying the Biden campaign does it, but a third party should absolutely hammer him on this.  

    I also think his blaming the Chinese should be an angle for the Dems.  Trump blames China, but he's the one that started a trade war he can't finish, and he failed to protect us from a virus originating there.  Why should he be given another chance to fail us?  Sure maybe some hard left Blues are uncomfortable with that, but they are not staying home.  
    Man, I don't see any of that. I think it will be even clearer as the months go on that this has been a systemic failure.  Every day we're peeling back the onion on how New York fucked up. Trump has done a poor job, but I don't know what that incremental toll really is. There is no way it wasn't going to hit us hard.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    edited May 2020
    Biden
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    people know who trump is and a significant majority are rejecting him. 

    any reasonable person does not want the shit stain on their conscience of having voted for him twice.
    Remember one of his key pitches in 16 was "What have you got to lose?"  Now we know.. 100k lives and millions of jobs.  
    If Democrats try to lay the totality of the coronavirus pandemic at his feet, voters will see through that
    Trump will be playing hardball.  I'm not saying the Biden campaign does it, but a third party should absolutely hammer him on this.  

    I also think his blaming the Chinese should be an angle for the Dems.  Trump blames China, but he's the one that started a trade war he can't finish, and he failed to protect us from a virus originating there.  Why should he be given another chance to fail us?  Sure maybe some hard left Blues are uncomfortable with that, but they are not staying home.  
    Man, I don't see any of that. I think it will be even clearer as the months go on that this has been a systemic failure.  Every day we're peeling back the onion on how New York fucked up. Trump has done a poor job, but I don't know what that incremental toll really is. There is no way it wasn't going to hit us hard.
    Do you think those details would stop Trump from using it in a campaign?  It's a fact that Trump had this issue in his security briefings as early as January, and he downplayed it the entire time, until late March.  Perhaps NY doesn't get a chance to F up if the CEO of the country isn't avoiding the issue.  
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,525
    I'm sitting this one out
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    people know who trump is and a significant majority are rejecting him. 

    any reasonable person does not want the shit stain on their conscience of having voted for him twice.
    Remember one of his key pitches in 16 was "What have you got to lose?"  Now we know.. 100k lives and millions of jobs.  
    If Democrats try to lay the totality of the coronavirus pandemic at his feet, voters will see through that
    Trump will be playing hardball.  I'm not saying the Biden campaign does it, but a third party should absolutely hammer him on this.  

    I also think his blaming the Chinese should be an angle for the Dems.  Trump blames China, but he's the one that started a trade war he can't finish, and he failed to protect us from a virus originating there.  Why should he be given another chance to fail us?  Sure maybe some hard left Blues are uncomfortable with that, but they are not staying home.  
    Man, I don't see any of that. I think it will be even clearer as the months go on that this has been a systemic failure.  Every day we're peeling back the onion on how New York fucked up. Trump has done a poor job, but I don't know what that incremental toll really is. There is no way it wasn't going to hit us hard.
    Do you think those details would stop Trump from using it in a campaign?  It's a fact that Trump had this issue in his security briefings as early as January, and he downplayed it the entire time, until late March.  Perhaps NY doesn't get a chance to F up if the CEO of the country isn't avoiding the issue.  
    If Clinton had won the election, where are you estimating we'd be as a country on cases/deaths today? Currently we are at 1.5 million/93k.
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    Biden
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    people know who trump is and a significant majority are rejecting him. 

    any reasonable person does not want the shit stain on their conscience of having voted for him twice.
    Remember one of his key pitches in 16 was "What have you got to lose?"  Now we know.. 100k lives and millions of jobs.  
    If Democrats try to lay the totality of the coronavirus pandemic at his feet, voters will see through that
    Trump will be playing hardball.  I'm not saying the Biden campaign does it, but a third party should absolutely hammer him on this.  

    I also think his blaming the Chinese should be an angle for the Dems.  Trump blames China, but he's the one that started a trade war he can't finish, and he failed to protect us from a virus originating there.  Why should he be given another chance to fail us?  Sure maybe some hard left Blues are uncomfortable with that, but they are not staying home.  
    Man, I don't see any of that. I think it will be even clearer as the months go on that this has been a systemic failure.  Every day we're peeling back the onion on how New York fucked up. Trump has done a poor job, but I don't know what that incremental toll really is. There is no way it wasn't going to hit us hard.
    Do you think those details would stop Trump from using it in a campaign?  It's a fact that Trump had this issue in his security briefings as early as January, and he downplayed it the entire time, until late March.  Perhaps NY doesn't get a chance to F up if the CEO of the country isn't avoiding the issue.  
    If Clinton had won the election, where are you estimating we'd be as a country on cases/deaths today? Currently we are at 1.5 million/93k.

    I was actually considering starting a thread on that.  One clear difference would be fewer conspiracy theories. A third of the population believes this entire thing is a conspiracy against Trump.  I still think just as many people would be upset about stay-at-home orders, maybe even more with a Democrat in the White House, but I think you'd have fewer people just flaunting their non-compliance at grocery stores, etc. These things might be a wash.

    I think the two biggest differences would be 1) An earlier response and a president concerned with more than how it impacts the re-election and 2) fewer people existing in the image of an ignorant, angry, moron doing things like refusing to wear masks, etc.  What's it mean in numbers?  Hard to say.  Maybe knocks 'em down by 20%?  A third?

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  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,050
    Biden
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    people know who trump is and a significant majority are rejecting him. 

    any reasonable person does not want the shit stain on their conscience of having voted for him twice.
    Remember one of his key pitches in 16 was "What have you got to lose?"  Now we know.. 100k lives and millions of jobs.  
    If Democrats try to lay the totality of the coronavirus pandemic at his feet, voters will see through that
    Trump will be playing hardball.  I'm not saying the Biden campaign does it, but a third party should absolutely hammer him on this.  

    I also think his blaming the Chinese should be an angle for the Dems.  Trump blames China, but he's the one that started a trade war he can't finish, and he failed to protect us from a virus originating there.  Why should he be given another chance to fail us?  Sure maybe some hard left Blues are uncomfortable with that, but they are not staying home.  
    Man, I don't see any of that. I think it will be even clearer as the months go on that this has been a systemic failure.  Every day we're peeling back the onion on how New York fucked up. Trump has done a poor job, but I don't know what that incremental toll really is. There is no way it wasn't going to hit us hard.
    Do you think those details would stop Trump from using it in a campaign?  It's a fact that Trump had this issue in his security briefings as early as January, and he downplayed it the entire time, until late March.  Perhaps NY doesn't get a chance to F up if the CEO of the country isn't avoiding the issue.  
    If Clinton had won the election, where are you estimating we'd be as a country on cases/deaths today? Currently we are at 1.5 million/93k.
    well, considering she is a democrat that believes in science, i can guarantee you she would have locked us down when the experts first recommended it. she would not have had states kiss her ass to get funding, PPE and ventilators. she would not have demonized china for attacking the world via virus. she would not have cut funding to the who.

    i could go on, but nothing i present will persuade you that hillary would have been infinitely better on this than your boy trump.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,295
    I don't know why people try to re-write history of how the coronavirus started and how they would have reacted.  No one here took it seriously before PJ cancelled their tour.  Which means no democrat was taking it seriously at the time or their would be records of it in this forum.  Did Trump start the travel bans before or after the tour was cancelled?  I do not know offhand.  
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,050
    Biden
    she would not have said we have 15 cases, soon to be zero cases.

    she would not have downplayed it. 

    she would have consulted with leaders of other nations and not gone it alone as dump did.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,050
    Biden
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    people know who trump is and a significant majority are rejecting him. 

    any reasonable person does not want the shit stain on their conscience of having voted for him twice.
    Remember one of his key pitches in 16 was "What have you got to lose?"  Now we know.. 100k lives and millions of jobs.  
    If Democrats try to lay the totality of the coronavirus pandemic at his feet, voters will see through that
    trump is in charge. he bumbled the national response. the buck is supposed to stop with him.

    what he did is the same as if japan attacked pearl harbor and FDR sat around tweeting about how unfairly he is being treated.

    trump deserves every single ounce of blame he gets.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,104
    That the last 10-11 posts were posted is astounding. With all that we know. With all that we've witnessed. With all of the denial and lies. That the question has to even be asked and a defense mounted. "Both sides are the same." Good fucking god. From someone "sitting this one out," no less.

    And I'll add another two, the Treasury Department wouldn't be sitting on half a trillion dollars of Congressionally passed relief aid nor would Hillary be threatening states with withholding federal dollars because of mail in ballot applications. 
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  • FiveBelow
    FiveBelow Posts: 1,332
    I'm sitting this one out
    This pandemic has only reinforced for me one glaringly obvious fact. Coming to any future unified approach in this country is nothing but a pipe dream. R vs D all the way...please make it stop.
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,908
    edited May 2020
    Biden
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    people know who trump is and a significant majority are rejecting him. 

    any reasonable person does not want the shit stain on their conscience of having voted for him twice.
    Remember one of his key pitches in 16 was "What have you got to lose?"  Now we know.. 100k lives and millions of jobs.  
    If Democrats try to lay the totality of the coronavirus pandemic at his feet, voters will see through that
    The Dems should just play tape after tape of every dumb thing Trump said during this. just play it over and over.

    "we will be down to zero cases soon"
    "I take no responsibility'
    "anyone who wants a test can get a test"
    and of course Fauci covering his face and shaking is head and so many more 

    just play the tapes and say nothing should be the Dems strategy. let his own words hang himself
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,104
    Jason P said:
    I don't know why people try to re-write history of how the coronavirus started and how they would have reacted.  No one here took it seriously before PJ cancelled their tour.  Which means no democrat was taking it seriously at the time or their would be records of it in this forum.  Did Trump start the travel bans before or after the tour was cancelled?  I do not know offhand.  
    PJ announced postponed tours on April 8th and 9th. On April 10th, the US had 486,000 cases and 18,000 deaths. Travel ban to/from China, with exemptions, went into effect on February 2nd. Travel from other nearby Asian nations wasn't banned nor restricted.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-snowballing-china-travel-claim/
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  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,525
    I'm sitting this one out
    OnWis97 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    people know who trump is and a significant majority are rejecting him. 

    any reasonable person does not want the shit stain on their conscience of having voted for him twice.
    Remember one of his key pitches in 16 was "What have you got to lose?"  Now we know.. 100k lives and millions of jobs.  
    If Democrats try to lay the totality of the coronavirus pandemic at his feet, voters will see through that
    Trump will be playing hardball.  I'm not saying the Biden campaign does it, but a third party should absolutely hammer him on this.  

    I also think his blaming the Chinese should be an angle for the Dems.  Trump blames China, but he's the one that started a trade war he can't finish, and he failed to protect us from a virus originating there.  Why should he be given another chance to fail us?  Sure maybe some hard left Blues are uncomfortable with that, but they are not staying home.  
    Man, I don't see any of that. I think it will be even clearer as the months go on that this has been a systemic failure.  Every day we're peeling back the onion on how New York fucked up. Trump has done a poor job, but I don't know what that incremental toll really is. There is no way it wasn't going to hit us hard.
    Do you think those details would stop Trump from using it in a campaign?  It's a fact that Trump had this issue in his security briefings as early as January, and he downplayed it the entire time, until late March.  Perhaps NY doesn't get a chance to F up if the CEO of the country isn't avoiding the issue.  
    If Clinton had won the election, where are you estimating we'd be as a country on cases/deaths today? Currently we are at 1.5 million/93k.

    I was actually considering starting a thread on that.  One clear difference would be fewer conspiracy theories. A third of the population believes this entire thing is a conspiracy against Trump.  I still think just as many people would be upset about stay-at-home orders, maybe even more with a Democrat in the White House, but I think you'd have fewer people just flaunting their non-compliance at grocery stores, etc. These things might be a wash.

    I think the two biggest differences would be 1) An earlier response and a president concerned with more than how it impacts the re-election and 2) fewer people existing in the image of an ignorant, angry, moron doing things like refusing to wear masks, etc.  What's it mean in numbers?  Hard to say.  Maybe knocks 'em down by 20%?  A third?

    You're a touch higher than I am, but we're close. I feel like 10-20% to date. I still think guidance would have been flawed, but there would have been something to go on.

    You're so right about the bickering and conspiracy theories. It's fucking insane that this many people have a strong opinion about a malaria drug.
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,525
    I'm sitting this one out
    JW269453 said:
    This pandemic has only reinforced for me one glaringly obvious fact. Coming to any future unified approach in this country is nothing but a pipe dream. R vs D all the way...please make it stop.
    It's a sight to behold, isn't it?
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,525
    I'm sitting this one out
    Jason P said:
    I don't know why people try to re-write history of how the coronavirus started and how they would have reacted.  No one here took it seriously before PJ cancelled their tour.  Which means no democrat was taking it seriously at the time or their would be records of it in this forum.  Did Trump start the travel bans before or after the tour was cancelled?  I do not know offhand.  
    Counterfactuals can be a good Rorschach test. Is the person asking hard questions and scrutinizing? Or are they turning partisan politicians into superheroes?
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    Biden
    Jason P said:
    I don't know why people try to re-write history of how the coronavirus started and how they would have reacted.  No one here took it seriously before PJ cancelled their tour.  Which means no democrat was taking it seriously at the time or their would be records of it in this forum.  Did Trump start the travel bans before or after the tour was cancelled?  I do not know offhand.  
    None of us were in the national security briefings in January.  None of us refused the tests from the WHO and Germany.  None of us pulled our CDC reps out of China last year.  So it really doesn't matter when we took it seriously.  That's not the bar for the president. 
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    edited May 2020
    Jason P said:
    I don't know why people try to re-write history of how the coronavirus started and how they would have reacted.  No one here took it seriously before PJ cancelled their tour.  Which means no democrat was taking it seriously at the time or their would be records of it in this forum.  Did Trump start the travel bans before or after the tour was cancelled?  I do not know offhand.  
    Bullshit. This thread is proof that you are absolutely wrong.

    Edit: thought I was in the coronavirus thread. Go there to find out how wrong you are.
    Post edited by dignin on
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    Biden
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    The Juggler said:
    Let's check in on the race:
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/2020/
    Biden holding steady 5.1% nationally. Still better than any challenger to an incumbent in recent history. 

    Battleground states RCP avg:
    AZ...Biden +4
    Fl...Biden +3.3
    MI....Biden +5.5
    NV....Biden +4
    NC.....Trump +1
    OH.....not enough polling yet
    PA....Biden up 6.5
    TX.......Trump up 2.5 (wow!)
    VA.....Biden up 9.7
    WI....Bide up 2.7

    So far so good, especially considering the Tara Reade story/non story and Trump's barrage of negative nonsense. Hasn't really knocked Biden off his lead. 


    I wouldn’t be shocked if Biden won Texas. I think there’s distain down there for him because of his disrespect to the Bush family. Hillary, despite being maybe the most loathed Democrat ever in the eyes of Republicans, garnered like 43% of the vote in Texas in ‘16. Biden definitely appeals to Trump-hating Republicans...and I think Texas might have more of them than any state. 
    It's curtains if he wins Texas. Probably not happening but I would bet it goes blue in '24.

    These numbers are all real good so far.  The Pennsylvania, AZ and Michigan numbers, in particular, are real nice to see as Trump won them in '16. Looking like the '18 midterm numbers thus far...
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  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,295
    dignin said:
    Jason P said:
    I don't know why people try to re-write history of how the coronavirus started and how they would have reacted.  No one here took it seriously before PJ cancelled their tour.  Which means no democrat was taking it seriously at the time or their would be records of it in this forum.  Did Trump start the travel bans before or after the tour was cancelled?  I do not know offhand.  
    Bullshit. This thread is proof that you are absolutely wrong.

    Edit: thought I was in the coronavirus thread. Go there to find out how wrong you are.
    I went to go find how wrong i was!  went to dairy queen instead.  
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    edited May 2020
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    The Juggler said:
    Let's check in on the race:
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/2020/
    Biden holding steady 5.1% nationally. Still better than any challenger to an incumbent in recent history. 

    Battleground states RCP avg:
    AZ...Biden +4
    Fl...Biden +3.3
    MI....Biden +5.5
    NV....Biden +4
    NC.....Trump +1
    OH.....not enough polling yet
    PA....Biden up 6.5
    TX.......Trump up 2.5 (wow!)
    VA.....Biden up 9.7
    WI....Bide up 2.7

    So far so good, especially considering the Tara Reade story/non story and Trump's barrage of negative nonsense. Hasn't really knocked Biden off his lead. 


    Here's a contrary take. Not saying I buy into all of it, but it's interesting. If I had to place a bet today, I'd still put it on Biden.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/poll-shows-biden-beating-trump-like-a-drum-heres-whats-really-going-on?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true
    I don't quite follow the argument.  He's basically saying.. yeah Biden is doing well now because he's surging.  And he's surging because D's are coming around to him.  Okay but D's coming around is not a short term surge, that's a step change.  Now maybe he is surging.  And maybe for random reasons but also because people have come to the conclusion that the Tara Reade story is BS.  So at the end of the day, I'm not sure how this is bad for Biden, as the author wants to believe.  
    And he's not even "surging." That doesn't make sense. His numbers have remained quite steady for a good period of time. That bodes well, especially since it hasn't moved much since Trump started attacking him. 

    It's the Washington Examiner. There's an agenda there, obviously. 

    Edit---ha...he's only talking about the one Q poll. My post was in reference to the overall average of Biden up by over 5%. Always look for the average, folks. 
    Post edited by The Juggler on
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