Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!
Comments
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I'm sitting this one out
I'm not sure what this cheeky merry-go-round is about, but my points are this:mrussel1 said:
- If someone is considering voting for Amash, they'll consider his positions and full record
- I bring up the Libertarian-in-Congress point to (1) express joy at a milestone and (2) counter inane, convoluted arguments about third parties0 -
One former repub becoming a libertarian while already in congress does not a third party make.pjl44 said:
I'm not sure what this cheeky merry-go-round is about, but my points are this:mrussel1 said:
- If someone is considering voting for Amash, they'll consider his positions and full record
- I bring up the Libertarian-in-Congress point to (1) express joy at a milestone and (2) counter inane, convoluted arguments about third parties09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
I'm sitting this one out
But I suspect Amash stands in unity with some positions he may hold such as skepticism of foreign intervention, civil liberties, criminal justice reform, drug legalization, etc.mrussel1 said:
So the first half of your post directly contradicted the second half of the post. You believe in voting for what you believe in, but then want to contribute to Amash who likely stands in direct contrast to all of your stated social safety net positions. Interesting...static111 said:
I would agree with that. Yeah I would rather be voting for someone that I agree with over someone who has passed a lot of legislation. I’m in Texas so Trump is winning here no matter what I do with my vote. Maybe I will contribute to Amash just so I don’t feel bad for continuing the more of the same trajectorypjl44 said:0 -
Biden
More because I believe in third parties. I mean the democrats don’t support everything I want but I’ve been giving them my votes all these years.mrussel1 said:
So the first half of your post directly contradicted the second half of the post. You believe in voting for what you believe in, but then want to contribute to Amash who likely stands in direct contrast to all of your stated social safety net positions. Interesting...static111 said:
I would agree with that. Yeah I would rather be voting for someone that I agree with over someone who has passed a lot of legislation. I’m in Texas so Trump is winning here no matter what I do with my vote. Maybe I will contribute to Amash just so I don’t feel bad for continuing the more of the same trajectorypjl44 said:Of course if there is a chance that Biden could win Texas I will definitely throw my vote at him because that would be a huge FU to trump. As for your other post. If all that someone is doing in Congress is advocating for positions I believe in and can’t get legislation sponsored that’s fine with me at least they are a voice . As far as contrarianism goes I also have no problem with that. Obviously what we have been doing for hundreds of years is flawed or we wouldn’t have TrumpScio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
Biden
The points about third party in the presidential race are not inane, it's spot on. Right now, third parties are simply spoilers. But if we had three viable parties, you would have every election decided by the House. Is that really want we want? Do we want a repeat of 1824? I think not.pjl44 said:
I'm not sure what this cheeky merry-go-round is about, but my points are this:mrussel1 said:
- If someone is considering voting for Amash, they'll consider his positions and full record
- I bring up the Libertarian-in-Congress point to (1) express joy at a milestone and (2) counter inane, convoluted arguments about third parties0 -
Bidenwasn't amash a tea partier? how did that work out for him?"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
I'm sitting this one out
That would mean Amash piled up some electoral votes and I'd be stoked as hell. If the polling starts moving in this direction and Biden is running third, I'm finding you to help move Ds to Amash so we can avoid this scenario.mrussel1 said:
The points about third party in the presidential race are not inane, it's spot on. Right now, third parties are simply spoilers. But if we had three viable parties, you would have every election decided by the House. Is that really want we want? Do we want a repeat of 1824? I think not.pjl44 said:
I'm not sure what this cheeky merry-go-round is about, but my points are this:mrussel1 said:
- If someone is considering voting for Amash, they'll consider his positions and full record
- I bring up the Libertarian-in-Congress point to (1) express joy at a milestone and (2) counter inane, convoluted arguments about third parties0 -
I'm sitting this one outAs a side note, if the rules stink someone should amend the rules. If you're pointing out a flaw in the system, maybe someone should move to change it. If no one cares enough to, then yeah we live with the process if that's how it plays out.0
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Biden
Your wistful thinking doesn't change the the consequences if having a viable third party. I don't want the House deciding.pjl44 said:
That would mean Amash piled up some electoral votes and I'd be stoked as hell. If the polling starts moving in this direction and Biden is running third, I'm finding you to help move Ds to Amash so we can avoid this scenario.mrussel1 said:
The points about third party in the presidential race are not inane, it's spot on. Right now, third parties are simply spoilers. But if we had three viable parties, you would have every election decided by the House. Is that really want we want? Do we want a repeat of 1824? I think not.pjl44 said:
I'm not sure what this cheeky merry-go-round is about, but my points are this:mrussel1 said:
- If someone is considering voting for Amash, they'll consider his positions and full record
- I bring up the Libertarian-in-Congress point to (1) express joy at a milestone and (2) counter inane, convoluted arguments about third parties0 -
I'm sitting this one out
"Look at this bad process"mrussel1 said:
Your wistful thinking doesn't change the the consequences if having a viable third party. I don't want the House deciding.pjl44 said:
That would mean Amash piled up some electoral votes and I'd be stoked as hell. If the polling starts moving in this direction and Biden is running third, I'm finding you to help move Ds to Amash so we can avoid this scenario.mrussel1 said:
The points about third party in the presidential race are not inane, it's spot on. Right now, third parties are simply spoilers. But if we had three viable parties, you would have every election decided by the House. Is that really want we want? Do we want a repeat of 1824? I think not.pjl44 said:
I'm not sure what this cheeky merry-go-round is about, but my points are this:mrussel1 said:
- If someone is considering voting for Amash, they'll consider his positions and full record
- I bring up the Libertarian-in-Congress point to (1) express joy at a milestone and (2) counter inane, convoluted arguments about third parties
"Oh...yeah, wow, that is a bad process. Is someone trying to change that?"
"No, we'll just use it as a cudgel to threaten people who could still trigger the bad process if they don't allow themselves to be bullied"
"Ah, yes...very logical indeed"0 -
Biden
Has there ever been a worse time to attempt to change the system than with someone as inept and dangerous as Donald Trump on the ballot? I would like more choices as well, but this is sure as hell not the time to experiment with that. Good grief. You people better come to your senses in the next 6 months.pjl44 said:
"Look at this bad process"mrussel1 said:
Your wistful thinking doesn't change the the consequences if having a viable third party. I don't want the House deciding.pjl44 said:
That would mean Amash piled up some electoral votes and I'd be stoked as hell. If the polling starts moving in this direction and Biden is running third, I'm finding you to help move Ds to Amash so we can avoid this scenario.mrussel1 said:
The points about third party in the presidential race are not inane, it's spot on. Right now, third parties are simply spoilers. But if we had three viable parties, you would have every election decided by the House. Is that really want we want? Do we want a repeat of 1824? I think not.pjl44 said:
I'm not sure what this cheeky merry-go-round is about, but my points are this:mrussel1 said:
- If someone is considering voting for Amash, they'll consider his positions and full record
- I bring up the Libertarian-in-Congress point to (1) express joy at a milestone and (2) counter inane, convoluted arguments about third parties
"Oh...yeah, wow, that is a bad process. Is someone trying to change that?"
"No, we'll just use it as a cudgel to threaten people who could still trigger the bad process if they don't allow themselves to be bullied"
"Ah, yes...very logical indeed"
Yes, I said "you people."www.myspace.com0 -
Biden
So what process are you proposing to change? The Electoral College? The more practical solution is a change in the makeup/priorities of the party. You're seeing that happen today. The problem you have is that Libertarian party is further from the mainstream than ever. The GOP has gone populist and the Democrats are a mix of Rockefellers and Progressive.pjl44 said:
"Look at this bad process"mrussel1 said:
Your wistful thinking doesn't change the the consequences if having a viable third party. I don't want the House deciding.pjl44 said:
That would mean Amash piled up some electoral votes and I'd be stoked as hell. If the polling starts moving in this direction and Biden is running third, I'm finding you to help move Ds to Amash so we can avoid this scenario.mrussel1 said:
The points about third party in the presidential race are not inane, it's spot on. Right now, third parties are simply spoilers. But if we had three viable parties, you would have every election decided by the House. Is that really want we want? Do we want a repeat of 1824? I think not.pjl44 said:
I'm not sure what this cheeky merry-go-round is about, but my points are this:mrussel1 said:
- If someone is considering voting for Amash, they'll consider his positions and full record
- I bring up the Libertarian-in-Congress point to (1) express joy at a milestone and (2) counter inane, convoluted arguments about third parties
"Oh...yeah, wow, that is a bad process. Is someone trying to change that?"
"No, we'll just use it as a cudgel to threaten people who could still trigger the bad process if they don't allow themselves to be bullied"
"Ah, yes...very logical indeed"0 -
I'm sitting this one out
Award victory to whomever gets a plurality, not a majority. Or leave it the way it is. It doesn't affect how I vote.mrussel1 said:
So what process are you proposing to change? The Electoral College? The more practical solution is a change in the makeup/priorities of the party. You're seeing that happen today. The problem you have is that Libertarian party is further from the mainstream than ever. The GOP has gone populist and the Democrats are a mix of Rockefellers and Progressive.pjl44 said:
"Look at this bad process"mrussel1 said:
Your wistful thinking doesn't change the the consequences if having a viable third party. I don't want the House deciding.pjl44 said:
That would mean Amash piled up some electoral votes and I'd be stoked as hell. If the polling starts moving in this direction and Biden is running third, I'm finding you to help move Ds to Amash so we can avoid this scenario.mrussel1 said:
The points about third party in the presidential race are not inane, it's spot on. Right now, third parties are simply spoilers. But if we had three viable parties, you would have every election decided by the House. Is that really want we want? Do we want a repeat of 1824? I think not.pjl44 said:
I'm not sure what this cheeky merry-go-round is about, but my points are this:mrussel1 said:
- If someone is considering voting for Amash, they'll consider his positions and full record
- I bring up the Libertarian-in-Congress point to (1) express joy at a milestone and (2) counter inane, convoluted arguments about third parties
"Oh...yeah, wow, that is a bad process. Is someone trying to change that?"
"No, we'll just use it as a cudgel to threaten people who could still trigger the bad process if they don't allow themselves to be bullied"
"Ah, yes...very logical indeed"0 -
I'm sitting this one outThe Juggler said:
Has there ever been a worse time to attempt to change the system than with someone as inept and dangerous as Donald Trump on the ballot? I would like more choices as well, but this is sure as hell not the time to experiment with that. Good grief. You people better come to your senses in the next 6 months.pjl44 said:
"Look at this bad process"mrussel1 said:
Your wistful thinking doesn't change the the consequences if having a viable third party. I don't want the House deciding.pjl44 said:
That would mean Amash piled up some electoral votes and I'd be stoked as hell. If the polling starts moving in this direction and Biden is running third, I'm finding you to help move Ds to Amash so we can avoid this scenario.mrussel1 said:
The points about third party in the presidential race are not inane, it's spot on. Right now, third parties are simply spoilers. But if we had three viable parties, you would have every election decided by the House. Is that really want we want? Do we want a repeat of 1824? I think not.pjl44 said:
I'm not sure what this cheeky merry-go-round is about, but my points are this:mrussel1 said:
- If someone is considering voting for Amash, they'll consider his positions and full record
- I bring up the Libertarian-in-Congress point to (1) express joy at a milestone and (2) counter inane, convoluted arguments about third parties
"Oh...yeah, wow, that is a bad process. Is someone trying to change that?"
"No, we'll just use it as a cudgel to threaten people who could still trigger the bad process if they don't allow themselves to be bullied"
"Ah, yes...very logical indeed"
Yes, I said "you people."
0 -
Biden
Right but that's a fantasy. There will not be a change to the EC under this Constitution. Once you get out of the first 10-15 states, there's no chance the mid to small states give up their influence. And certainly no way to get 2/3 of legislatures to do so. So you're back to...three viable parties = House decision.pjl44 said:
Award victory to whomever gets a plurality, not a majority. Or leave it the way it is. It doesn't affect how I vote.mrussel1 said:
So what process are you proposing to change? The Electoral College? The more practical solution is a change in the makeup/priorities of the party. You're seeing that happen today. The problem you have is that Libertarian party is further from the mainstream than ever. The GOP has gone populist and the Democrats are a mix of Rockefellers and Progressive.pjl44 said:
"Look at this bad process"mrussel1 said:
Your wistful thinking doesn't change the the consequences if having a viable third party. I don't want the House deciding.pjl44 said:
That would mean Amash piled up some electoral votes and I'd be stoked as hell. If the polling starts moving in this direction and Biden is running third, I'm finding you to help move Ds to Amash so we can avoid this scenario.mrussel1 said:
The points about third party in the presidential race are not inane, it's spot on. Right now, third parties are simply spoilers. But if we had three viable parties, you would have every election decided by the House. Is that really want we want? Do we want a repeat of 1824? I think not.pjl44 said:
I'm not sure what this cheeky merry-go-round is about, but my points are this:mrussel1 said:
- If someone is considering voting for Amash, they'll consider his positions and full record
- I bring up the Libertarian-in-Congress point to (1) express joy at a milestone and (2) counter inane, convoluted arguments about third parties
"Oh...yeah, wow, that is a bad process. Is someone trying to change that?"
"No, we'll just use it as a cudgel to threaten people who could still trigger the bad process if they don't allow themselves to be bullied"
"Ah, yes...very logical indeed"0 -
BidenCan I just say that AMT and threads like this are the best parts of the internet?Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
I'm sitting this one out
Then fine. This is like the "experience" argument where people only wield it if it works in their candidate's favor. In June '92, Clinton was running third. There is no chance Ds would have considered throwing in the towel if that persisted, nor should they.mrussel1 said:
Right but that's a fantasy. There will not be a change to the EC under this Constitution. Once you get out of the first 10-15 states, there's no chance the mid to small states give up their influence. And certainly no way to get 2/3 of legislatures to do so. So you're back to...three viable parties = House decision.pjl44 said:
Award victory to whomever gets a plurality, not a majority. Or leave it the way it is. It doesn't affect how I vote.mrussel1 said:
So what process are you proposing to change? The Electoral College? The more practical solution is a change in the makeup/priorities of the party. You're seeing that happen today. The problem you have is that Libertarian party is further from the mainstream than ever. The GOP has gone populist and the Democrats are a mix of Rockefellers and Progressive.pjl44 said:
"Look at this bad process"mrussel1 said:
Your wistful thinking doesn't change the the consequences if having a viable third party. I don't want the House deciding.pjl44 said:
That would mean Amash piled up some electoral votes and I'd be stoked as hell. If the polling starts moving in this direction and Biden is running third, I'm finding you to help move Ds to Amash so we can avoid this scenario.mrussel1 said:
The points about third party in the presidential race are not inane, it's spot on. Right now, third parties are simply spoilers. But if we had three viable parties, you would have every election decided by the House. Is that really want we want? Do we want a repeat of 1824? I think not.pjl44 said:
I'm not sure what this cheeky merry-go-round is about, but my points are this:mrussel1 said:
- If someone is considering voting for Amash, they'll consider his positions and full record
- I bring up the Libertarian-in-Congress point to (1) express joy at a milestone and (2) counter inane, convoluted arguments about third parties
"Oh...yeah, wow, that is a bad process. Is someone trying to change that?"
"No, we'll just use it as a cudgel to threaten people who could still trigger the bad process if they don't allow themselves to be bullied"
"Ah, yes...very logical indeed"0 -
Biden
That experience comment was about Amash being a libertarian for a minute. It was a dig at Libertarians, not Amash.pjl44 said:
Then fine. This is like the "experience" argument where people only wield it if it works in their candidate's favor. In June '92, Clinton was running third. There is no chance Ds would have considered throwing in the towel if that persisted, nor should they.mrussel1 said:
Right but that's a fantasy. There will not be a change to the EC under this Constitution. Once you get out of the first 10-15 states, there's no chance the mid to small states give up their influence. And certainly no way to get 2/3 of legislatures to do so. So you're back to...three viable parties = House decision.pjl44 said:
Award victory to whomever gets a plurality, not a majority. Or leave it the way it is. It doesn't affect how I vote.mrussel1 said:
So what process are you proposing to change? The Electoral College? The more practical solution is a change in the makeup/priorities of the party. You're seeing that happen today. The problem you have is that Libertarian party is further from the mainstream than ever. The GOP has gone populist and the Democrats are a mix of Rockefellers and Progressive.pjl44 said:
"Look at this bad process"mrussel1 said:
Your wistful thinking doesn't change the the consequences if having a viable third party. I don't want the House deciding.pjl44 said:
That would mean Amash piled up some electoral votes and I'd be stoked as hell. If the polling starts moving in this direction and Biden is running third, I'm finding you to help move Ds to Amash so we can avoid this scenario.mrussel1 said:
The points about third party in the presidential race are not inane, it's spot on. Right now, third parties are simply spoilers. But if we had three viable parties, you would have every election decided by the House. Is that really want we want? Do we want a repeat of 1824? I think not.pjl44 said:
I'm not sure what this cheeky merry-go-round is about, but my points are this:mrussel1 said:
- If someone is considering voting for Amash, they'll consider his positions and full record
- I bring up the Libertarian-in-Congress point to (1) express joy at a milestone and (2) counter inane, convoluted arguments about third parties
"Oh...yeah, wow, that is a bad process. Is someone trying to change that?"
"No, we'll just use it as a cudgel to threaten people who could still trigger the bad process if they don't allow themselves to be bullied"
"Ah, yes...very logical indeed"Regardless, I don’t see how these arguments are the same. I’m always against third parties for the same practical purpose I outlined. The Constitution isn’t changing.0 -
I'm sitting this one out
By the way, are you going to try and convince DEMOCRATS that THEY should be afraid of the HOUSE selecting the President? What exactly is the scenario where Biden wins a plurality and doesn't get inaugurated?mrussel1 said:
Right but that's a fantasy. There will not be a change to the EC under this Constitution. Once you get out of the first 10-15 states, there's no chance the mid to small states give up their influence. And certainly no way to get 2/3 of legislatures to do so. So you're back to...three viable parties = House decision.pjl44 said:
Award victory to whomever gets a plurality, not a majority. Or leave it the way it is. It doesn't affect how I vote.mrussel1 said:
So what process are you proposing to change? The Electoral College? The more practical solution is a change in the makeup/priorities of the party. You're seeing that happen today. The problem you have is that Libertarian party is further from the mainstream than ever. The GOP has gone populist and the Democrats are a mix of Rockefellers and Progressive.pjl44 said:
"Look at this bad process"mrussel1 said:
Your wistful thinking doesn't change the the consequences if having a viable third party. I don't want the House deciding.pjl44 said:
That would mean Amash piled up some electoral votes and I'd be stoked as hell. If the polling starts moving in this direction and Biden is running third, I'm finding you to help move Ds to Amash so we can avoid this scenario.mrussel1 said:
The points about third party in the presidential race are not inane, it's spot on. Right now, third parties are simply spoilers. But if we had three viable parties, you would have every election decided by the House. Is that really want we want? Do we want a repeat of 1824? I think not.pjl44 said:
I'm not sure what this cheeky merry-go-round is about, but my points are this:mrussel1 said:
- If someone is considering voting for Amash, they'll consider his positions and full record
- I bring up the Libertarian-in-Congress point to (1) express joy at a milestone and (2) counter inane, convoluted arguments about third parties
"Oh...yeah, wow, that is a bad process. Is someone trying to change that?"
"No, we'll just use it as a cudgel to threaten people who could still trigger the bad process if they don't allow themselves to be bullied"
"Ah, yes...very logical indeed"0
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