Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!
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Biden
But I thought evil Russian bots spread propaganda on American social media and that hurt Hillary in 2016. Well I guess we can scratch that off of Hillary’s excuse list, because social media never influenced anyone to vote ever.Halifax2TheMax said:And who are those that are "pushing" #firechrishayes? Putin on the ritz? Or legitimate, real life Sleepy Woke Joe supporters? Or real "dem" Bernie supporters?
Social media never influenced anyone to vote, ever.2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
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Biden
hillary won the popular vote by over 3 million.Ledbetterman10 said:But I thought evil Russian bots spread propaganda on American social media and that hurt Hillary in 2016. Well I guess we can scratch that off of Hillary’s excuse list, because social media never influenced anyone to vote ever.
there is documented evidence that coordinated russian troll farms did influence the 2016 election. the gop committee chairpeople are even saying so."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
Biden
I know. I’m saying how can Halifax say social media doesn’t influence voters when he’s one of the more vocal people here about Russian influence on our elections.gimmesometruth27 said:hillary won the popular vote by over 3 million.
there is documented evidence that coordinated russian troll farms did influence the 2016 election. the gop committee chairpeople are even saying so.2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
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Bidenpjl44 said:Oh and I keep seeing the "what libertarian policies" question come up and two recent ones I'd point to that the LP has advocated for years and years before Rs and Ds are:
- Weed legalization, which is tons of jobs and revenue
- Marriage equality, which needs no other contextAdmittedly, it's anecdotal but my experience with those who claim to be libertarian is that they are just Republicans...they liked W, the LOVE Trump and they care about owning the libs.And the candidates seem to understand that they need to get some of the conservative base...so with marriage, it's usually the great cop-out of "get government out of marriage," which technically doesn't discriminate, but also doesn't force them to advocate for gay partnerships. And, of course, they're all pro-birth.There's no question that the libertarians I encountered early on (i.e., local/state elections) were absolutely early to the party regarding weed legalization. But the bigger the scale (i.e., local---state---national) the election, the more they tend to become Republicans. Ultimately, they're on the right and even the ones that do hold some of the liberal social views allow the reduction of taxes and elimination of safety nets and regulations to trump (er, Trump) those.20 years ago, I actually thought the libertarian ideal would be a major player by now. But ultimately, the right is united (they even had an event in Charlottesville, VA) and to be effective, the need the religious right and the kleptocrats to be successful. So they're almost the "social democrat" wing of the GOP...but I don't think they vote against their own interest to spite the moderates the way the Bernie Bros do.Post edited by OnWis97 on1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
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Because I was told that by some posters on here, despite my posting numerous fact based links to the contrary. Have you forgotten where I've stood for the past 5 years? Did I forget the thing all the kids are using? /s or is it s/? My apologies.Ledbetterman10 said:I know. I’m saying how can Halifax say social media doesn’t influence voters when he’s one of the more vocal people here about Russian influence on our elections.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Biden
No clue what the bolded part is supposed to mean. But yeah, what was I thinking. Of course you're saying that Russian trolls are causing Hayes to trend.Halifax2TheMax said:Because I was told that by some posters on here, despite my posting numerous fact based links to the contrary. Have you forgotten where I've stood for the past 5 years? Did I forget the thing all the kids are using? /s or is it s/? My apologies.2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
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Bidenpjl44 said:Everyone always rolls their eyes at libertarians and weed but it comes up a lot because legalization hits a lot of different boxes:
- Economic growth
- Fewer nonviolent incarcerations
- Violent crime reduction
- Freedom to partake in a harmless activity
Edit: - Non-opioid-based pain relief
And I am absolutely with this. Both parties (a phrase I rarely use anymore) have blame for the costly and unnecessary incarcerations and violence connected with pot being illegal. FWIW, the social libertarian in me thinks all drugs should be legal for some of these reasons, though weed's a great place to start.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley0 -
BidenHalifax2TheMax said:And who are those that are "pushing" #firechrishayes? Putin on the ritz? Or legitimate, real life Sleepy Woke Joe supporters? Or real "dem" Bernie supporters?
Social media never influenced anyone to vote, ever.
I think it's a fair question...the right in this country is united primary by one thing: demonizing others; and the domestic left is probably the great enemy they have right now. They can be far more successful in selling the left as hypocrites than they can be talking about anything related to the actual candidates.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley0 -
I'm sitting this one out
First off, there are definitely pro-Trump "libertarians." I've long ago given up arguing ideological titles. That is not a libertarian position to me, but people can call themselves whatever they want.OnWis97 said:Admittedly, it's anecdotal but my experience with those who claim to be libertarian is that they are just Republicans...they liked W, the LOVE Trump and they care about owning the libs.And the candidates seem to understand that they need to get some of the conservative base...so with marriage, it's usually the great cop-out of "get government out of marriage," which technically doesn't discriminate, but also doesn't force them to advocate for gay partnerships. And, of course, they're all pro-birth.There's no question that the libertarians I encountered early on (i.e., local/state elections) were absolutely early to the party regarding weed legalization. But the bigger the scale (i.e., local---state---national) the election, the more they tend to become Republicans. Ultimately, they're on the right and even the ones that do hold some of the liberal social views allow the reduction of taxes and elimination of safety nets and regulations to trump (er, Trump) those.20 years ago, I actually thought the libertarian ideal would be a major player by now. But ultimately, the right is united (they even had an event in Charlottesville, VA) and to be effective, the need the religious right and the kleptocrats to be successful. So they're almost the "social democrat" wing of the GOP...but I don't think they vote against their own interest to spite the moderates the way the Bernie Bros do.
There are also definitely libertarians who skirt the marriage equality issue exactly how you describe. It's the Ron Paul move. Total cop-out as far as I'm concerned. On abortion, they are not all pro-birth. It's about as split as you'll see an issue with libertarians.
If you want to see the form of libertarianism I identify with, the easiest suggestion I can make is to follow Reason magazine. In terms of candidates, scrutinize them like you would any party. Voting D gives you different outcomes whether it's Bernie or Biden. Same with Rs and Trump vs. Romney. No different with Ls. Justin Amash is as close to my ideal candidate as I've ever had the opportunity to vote for.Post edited by pjl44 on0 -
BidenSpeaking of things trending, "Joe Biden is Joe Biden" is trending now because that's what Pelosi said in regards to his allegation Like "Joe's gonna be Joe" in nature. The Dems just seem to get in their own way. You already have a likely baseless (or at least unprovable) allegation against Biden that really isn't much to worry about. But she can't help but put her foot in her mouth.2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
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BidenReason will disappoint me greatly but also impress me. Their writers span the spectrum of alleged Libertarians. Several are just Republicans. While in the comments they are accused of being Democrats by the readers, I don't see them espousing left of center policy. It's only the criticism of Trump that gets the readers fired up.0
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I'm sitting this one out
The pisser is if you read her quote you can tell what she meant, but good lord what a bad way to put itLedbetterman10 said:Speaking of things trending, "Joe Biden is Joe Biden" is trending now because that's what Pelosi said in regards to his allegation Like "Joe's gonna be Joe" in nature. The Dems just seem to get in their own way. You already have a likely baseless (or at least unprovable) allegation against Biden that really isn't much to worry about. But she can't help but put her foot in her mouth.0 -
Biden
Oh yeah when you listen to her, she didn’t say it in a “Joe will be Joe” manner...but that’s how it’ll be portrayed. Giving the other side ammo.pjl44 said:The pisser is if you read her quote you can tell what she meant, but good lord what a bad way to put it2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
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No, I was asking the question, is it true Sleepy Woke Joe supporters, Bernie supporters or putin on the ritz?Ledbetterman10 said:No clue what the bolded part is supposed to mean. But yeah, what was I thinking. Of course you're saying that Russian trolls are causing Hayes to trend.
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Biden
Well of those three groups, I'd say it's mostly Joe supporters. But not just them as "Joe supporters." I bet there's Democratic Party and MSNBC loyalists who are looking at Hayes saying "Dude...you think Hannity would throw Trump under the bus like that? This is why their side wins. They're all on the same page."Halifax2TheMax said:No, I was asking the question, is it true Sleepy Woke Joe supporters, Bernie supporters or putin on the ritz?2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
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But do you know that? That they're mostly "Joe supporters?"Ledbetterman10 said:Well of those three groups, I'd say it's mostly Joe supporters. But not just them as "Joe supporters." I bet there's Democratic Party and MSNBC loyalists who are looking at Hayes saying "Dude...you think Hannity would throw Trump under the bus like that? This is why their side wins. They're all on the same page."
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Biden
Well there's no way of knowing it one way or another, so it's just a matter of perspective. I look at this Chris Hayes trend and think "Crybaby liberals upset that one of their own dared to dissent for a moment." You might look at this Chris Hayes trend and think "Putin and the Ritz...at it again."Halifax2TheMax said:But do you know that? That they're mostly "Joe supporters?"2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
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I wish I lived in a world where nobody cared what was trending on twitter. It's a cesspool.0
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Gern Blansten said:Are Libertarian votes moderate though? I think Amash hurts tRump more than Biden. Especially once Amash has to hug the libertarian platform.No you are correct they are not.
and I’ll apologize as I’ll probably be posting this a lot. Republicans get in line. They vote for their guy even if he raped or banged a porn star and there’s a 4k video of him doing it doing it. Even if they fount H2Ms pee tape, they will be there.
Democrats? If they don’t like your email server or think a woman who kept her mouth closed for 30 years may have a bad thing to say about their guy? They’re much more likely to skip the election.0
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