The Democratic Presidential Debates
Comments
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Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.Spiritual_Chaos said:
I thought we had each other on ignore?benjs said:
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?Spiritual_Chaos said:
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
"radical"
You should really put bunny ears around your radical.
"radical""Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
But wait, maybe you meant radical like in the way the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are radical?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Start reading more polls:mrussel1 said:
The statement is a comparative of the candidates. According to polling, Biden does best with these groups, even better than Booker and Harris did.Spiritual_Chaos said:
@mrussel1Spiritual_Chaos said:
Who in the race doesn't?mrussel1 said:
And you knew it would be right at Iowa and NH, two states where white voters mean everything, and these two appeal to the white more than minorities.Sanders has made gains nearly across the board, clearly pulling away from Warren among liberals (33% back Sanders, while 19% support Warren in the new poll), a group where the two had been running closely through much of the fall. Sanders has also pulled about even with Biden among voters of color (30% for Sanders, 27% for Biden).https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/22/politics/cnn-poll-sanders-biden-january-national/index.html?__twitter_impression=true
And lets all cheer for this:Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has improved his standing in the national Democratic race for president, joining former Vice President Joe Biden in a two-person top tier above the rest of the field, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.
The poll marks the first time Biden has not held a solo lead in CNN's national polling on the race.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
This poll was released this morning. I wrote what I wrote yesterday. This is why so many can't communicate with you.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Start reading more polls:mrussel1 said:
The statement is a comparative of the candidates. According to polling, Biden does best with these groups, even better than Booker and Harris did.Spiritual_Chaos said:
@mrussel1Spiritual_Chaos said:
Who in the race doesn't?mrussel1 said:
And you knew it would be right at Iowa and NH, two states where white voters mean everything, and these two appeal to the white more than minorities.Sanders has made gains nearly across the board, clearly pulling away from Warren among liberals (33% back Sanders, while 19% support Warren in the new poll), a group where the two had been running closely through much of the fall. Sanders has also pulled about even with Biden among voters of color (30% for Sanders, 27% for Biden).https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/22/politics/cnn-poll-sanders-biden-january-national/index.html?__twitter_impression=true
And lets all cheer for this:Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has improved his standing in the national Democratic race for president, joining former Vice President Joe Biden in a two-person top tier above the rest of the field, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.
The poll marks the first time Biden has not held a solo lead in CNN's national polling on the race.0 -
I wrote "start reading more polls". Present tense. Not "you should have read more polls yesterday"mrussel1 said:
This poll was released this morning. I wrote what I wrote yesterday. This is why so many can't communicate with you.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Start reading more polls:mrussel1 said:
The statement is a comparative of the candidates. According to polling, Biden does best with these groups, even better than Booker and Harris did.Spiritual_Chaos said:
@mrussel1Spiritual_Chaos said:
Who in the race doesn't?mrussel1 said:
And you knew it would be right at Iowa and NH, two states where white voters mean everything, and these two appeal to the white more than minorities.Sanders has made gains nearly across the board, clearly pulling away from Warren among liberals (33% back Sanders, while 19% support Warren in the new poll), a group where the two had been running closely through much of the fall. Sanders has also pulled about even with Biden among voters of color (30% for Sanders, 27% for Biden).https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/22/politics/cnn-poll-sanders-biden-january-national/index.html?__twitter_impression=true
And lets all cheer for this:Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has improved his standing in the national Democratic race for president, joining former Vice President Joe Biden in a two-person top tier above the rest of the field, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.
The poll marks the first time Biden has not held a solo lead in CNN's national polling on the race."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
I applaud your efforts. I think the ignore feature works fabulous though...mrussel1 said:
This poll was released this morning. I wrote what I wrote yesterday. This is why so many can't communicate with you.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Start reading more polls:mrussel1 said:
The statement is a comparative of the candidates. According to polling, Biden does best with these groups, even better than Booker and Harris did.Spiritual_Chaos said:
@mrussel1Spiritual_Chaos said:
Who in the race doesn't?mrussel1 said:
And you knew it would be right at Iowa and NH, two states where white voters mean everything, and these two appeal to the white more than minorities.Sanders has made gains nearly across the board, clearly pulling away from Warren among liberals (33% back Sanders, while 19% support Warren in the new poll), a group where the two had been running closely through much of the fall. Sanders has also pulled about even with Biden among voters of color (30% for Sanders, 27% for Biden).https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/22/politics/cnn-poll-sanders-biden-january-national/index.html?__twitter_impression=true
And lets all cheer for this:Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has improved his standing in the national Democratic race for president, joining former Vice President Joe Biden in a two-person top tier above the rest of the field, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.
The poll marks the first time Biden has not held a solo lead in CNN's national polling on the race.It's a hopeless situation...0 -
Super Tuesday will be the most telling regarding support. NH and Iowa are anomalies and are by no means representative of the nation or Democratic Party as a whole. Super Tuesday and the other big primary day that comes after are really what’s important. We’ll see how Bernie does then.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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for a while there, we had some decent discourse going.....am reminded of the all in the family opening song.....
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
How is our lord and savior polling in these states?Halifax2TheMax said:Super Tuesday will be the most telling regarding support. NH and Iowa are anomalies and are by no means representative of the nation or Democratic Party as a whole. Super Tuesday and the other big primary day that comes after are really what’s important. We’ll see how Bernie does then."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Killer Mike: 'I'm With the Revolutionary.
https://youtu.be/fk1la_qP3Jk"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:benjs said:
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.Spiritual_Chaos said:
I thought we had each other on ignore?benjs said:
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?Spiritual_Chaos said:
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.0 -
Team Trump Treason? No idea but I saw that those favoring removing him from office was higher than his approval rating in key battleground states. A good sign I would think. And 59% of women and 40% of men wanted him removed from office, which if that translates to not pulling the lever for him and using census data from 2018 on total numbers of each gender who voted, again some margin of error has to be included, translates into approximately 60 million people not voting for him. Again, bodes well.Spiritual_Chaos said:
How is our lord and savior polling in these states?Halifax2TheMax said:Super Tuesday will be the most telling regarding support. NH and Iowa are anomalies and are by no means representative of the nation or Democratic Party as a whole. Super Tuesday and the other big primary day that comes after are really what’s important. We’ll see how Bernie does then.
PS: there is no god, lord or savior.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Halifax2TheMax said:
Team Trump Treason? No idea but I saw that those favoring removing him from office was higher than his approval rating in key battleground states. A good sign I would think. And 59% of women and 40% of men wanted him removed from office, which if that translates to not pulling the lever for him and using census data from 2018 on total numbers of each gender who voted, again some margin of error has to be included, translates into approximately 60 million people not voting for him. Again, bodes well.Spiritual_Chaos said:
How is our lord and savior polling in these states?Halifax2TheMax said:Super Tuesday will be the most telling regarding support. NH and Iowa are anomalies and are by no means representative of the nation or Democratic Party as a whole. Super Tuesday and the other big primary day that comes after are really what’s important. We’ll see how Bernie does then.
PS: there is no god, lord or savior.
BLASPHEMER!
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!pjl44 said:
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:benjs said:
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.Spiritual_Chaos said:
I thought we had each other on ignore?benjs said:
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?Spiritual_Chaos said:
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
To your point, though, if someone is a Sanders supporter does Trump or Biden move that marker in any appreciable way?benjs said:
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!pjl44 said:
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:benjs said:
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.Spiritual_Chaos said:
I thought we had each other on ignore?benjs said:
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?Spiritual_Chaos said:
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.0 -
I think Biden would make marginal shifts in that direction. For a year now he's been publicly scrutinized for his record and has had to look into the camera sheepishly during debates as he was called out for positions and behaviours that today, wouldn't be tolerated.pjl44 said:
To your point, though, if someone is a Sanders supporter does Trump or Biden move that marker in any appreciable way?benjs said:
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!pjl44 said:
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:benjs said:
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.Spiritual_Chaos said:
I thought we had each other on ignore?benjs said:
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?Spiritual_Chaos said:
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
I think Trump moves the marker, just probably not in the direction most would see as compatible with Sanders'.
Edit: To add, I would take a proposal for marginal change that's plausible to come into fruition, over a bold, brave proposal for massive change that has a low probability of succeeding.Post edited by benjs on'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
I definitely see your point. The way I've always looked at it is a buffer of say 30 points to allow for pragmatism. If I agree with a 3rd party candidate 90%, but a major party candidate 60% then yeah I'll take the dive.benjs said:
I think Biden would make marginal shifts in that direction. For a year now he's been publicly scrutinized for his record and has had to look into the camera sheepishly during debates as he was called out for positions and behaviours that today, wouldn't be tolerated.pjl44 said:
To your point, though, if someone is a Sanders supporter does Trump or Biden move that marker in any appreciable way?benjs said:
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!pjl44 said:
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:benjs said:
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.Spiritual_Chaos said:
I thought we had each other on ignore?benjs said:
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?Spiritual_Chaos said:
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
I think Trump moves the marker, just probably not in the direction most would see as compatible with Sanders'.
Edit: To add, I would take a proposal for marginal change that's plausible to come into fruition, over a bold, brave proposal for massive change that has a low probability of succeeding.
But I still think you're underestimating the shift Congress would take if Sanders were elected. Sure, Republicans would dig in, but I think a ton of Democrats would lurch left. It's why I vote for the candidate I like without trying to divine what a couple hundred other legislators may or may not do.0 -
@benjs , thought I read you were seeking or have gained US citizenship? Do I have that right?I ask because I find you to be intelligent, thoughtful, critically thinking, and a host of other positive attributes. You are the kind of voter in general I personally welcome, no matter your politics....
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
pjl44 said:
I definitely see your point. The way I've always looked at it is a buffer of say 30 points to allow for pragmatism. If I agree with a 3rd party candidate 90%, but a major party candidate 60% then yeah I'll take the dive.benjs said:
I think Biden would make marginal shifts in that direction. For a year now he's been publicly scrutinized for his record and has had to look into the camera sheepishly during debates as he was called out for positions and behaviours that today, wouldn't be tolerated.pjl44 said:
To your point, though, if someone is a Sanders supporter does Trump or Biden move that marker in any appreciable way?benjs said:
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!pjl44 said:
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:benjs said:
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.Spiritual_Chaos said:
I thought we had each other on ignore?benjs said:
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?Spiritual_Chaos said:
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
I think Trump moves the marker, just probably not in the direction most would see as compatible with Sanders'.
Edit: To add, I would take a proposal for marginal change that's plausible to come into fruition, over a bold, brave proposal for massive change that has a low probability of succeeding.
But I still think you're underestimating the shift Congress would take if Sanders were elected. Sure, Republicans would dig in, but I think a ton of Democrats would lurch left. It's why I vote for the candidate I like without trying to divine what a couple hundred other legislators may or may not do.Sanders deal with the country should be his type of wholesale change takes far far more than one election. This new far left wing would have to repeatedly win year after year. Voters will need to be told that long term patience is required. The only way congress supports sanders type of change is if they see voters are for real fed up with the corporations and wealthy taking 99% of the American pie.
But the interests of wealth succeed every time in breaking up a far left agenda because the masses have short attention spans and can be easily swayed.Clinton was a popular President in a good economy but voters ran right back to the GOP when his two terms were up, and even voted against his party in the midterms. Same exact scenario with Obama0
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- 148.8K Pearl Jam's Music and Activism
- 110K The Porch
- 274 Vitalogy
- 35K Given To Fly (live)
- 3.5K Words and Music...Communication
- 39.1K Flea Market
- 39.1K Lost Dogs
- 58.7K Not Pearl Jam's Music
- 10.6K Musicians and Gearheads
- 29.1K Other Music
- 17.8K Poetry, Prose, Music & Art
- 1.1K The Art Wall
- 56.8K Non-Pearl Jam Discussion
- 22.2K A Moving Train
- 31.7K All Encompassing Trip
- 2.9K Technical Stuff and Help