Fan-To-Fan Face Value Ticket Exchange

PJNB said:

pjl44 said:

BennyLaRue said:

PJNB said:

You guys that are ok with this system and know you are going to a show are not factoring in that now a lot more people are going to be hurting your GA or reserved odds without a care. In the past if people did not know (most did this) they were going to be able to make a show they did not put in for it and waited till they knew to find at ticket on the forum. Now they will put in and just sell the ticket not caring that they hurt the odds and chances of people that they knew 100% for sure that they were going. There is a lot good with the new system that they have in place but this is an awful choice imo. 

Oh, it's factored in. My counter-point would be that I'm not sure many people will be putting down many hundreds or even thousands of dollars to game the system in this way when their ability to make money off the strategy is basically nil. Sure, people will try but if Ten Club is diligent about voiding tickets posted for resale above face, this will be snuffed out.

And, apparently improving our odds, there are more tickets available to Ten Club member than ever before.

That's another risk for potential ticket hoarders. Tickets have become much pricier. Good point.

And so has the secondary market. To secure a ticket I bet people would rather fork over the money now to up their odds and get payed back in the future without penalty then to have lower odds and have to go to Stubhub potentially. 

I am not trying to be a debbie downer here and say the system will not work just yet. I  just see some obvious holes that I know will be exploited unfortunately. I am sure 10 club has thought of all angles so it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I am also sure 10 Club is sick of seeing people email them saying they want a refund or seeing good seats go to waste since the original ticket holder can no longer use them.

• Profiting from scalping is removed from the table since tickets can only be resold at face value and anonymously so you can't request additional funds - lowers demand
• Buying tickets today to barter with someone to get to another show wouldn't be possible since tickets can only be resold anonymously - lowers demand

P-Town-P-Jam-Fan said:

PJNB said:

pjl44 said:

BennyLaRue said:

PJNB said:

You guys that are ok with this system and know you are going to a show are not factoring in that now a lot more people are going to be hurting your GA or reserved odds without a care. In the past if people did not know (most did this) they were going to be able to make a show they did not put in for it and waited till they knew to find at ticket on the forum. Now they will put in and just sell the ticket not caring that they hurt the odds and chances of people that they knew 100% for sure that they were going. There is a lot good with the new system that they have in place but this is an awful choice imo. 

Oh, it's factored in. My counter-point would be that I'm not sure many people will be putting down many hundreds or even thousands of dollars to game the system in this way when their ability to make money off the strategy is basically nil. Sure, people will try but if Ten Club is diligent about voiding tickets posted for resale above face, this will be snuffed out.

And, apparently improving our odds, there are more tickets available to Ten Club member than ever before.

That's another risk for potential ticket hoarders. Tickets have become much pricier. Good point.

And so has the secondary market. To secure a ticket I bet people would rather fork over the money now to up their odds and get payed back in the future without penalty then to have lower odds and have to go to Stubhub potentially. 

I am not trying to be a debbie downer here and say the system will not work just yet. I  just see some obvious holes that I know will be exploited unfortunately. I am sure 10 club has thought of all angles so it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I am also sure 10 Club is sick of seeing people email them saying they want a refund or seeing good seats go to waste since the original ticket holder can no longer use them.

What tickets are going to be on Stubhub?  Tickets are non-transferable even the public tickets.  Unless you are talking New York or Denver of course.

MayDay10 said:

pjl44 said:

MayDay10 said:

I dont like this to be honest.

I get that sometimes there are extreme circumstances are created and someone legit cant go and has fallen on hardship.... and gets stuck eating or donating tickets.


But this creates a system that further encourages pairing-up, increasing odds, childrens' accounts, and overbuying, and later adjusting to figure out which tickets are more preferable, or later realizing that travelling will be to costly or arduous.   

I definitely see your points, but I'm reserving judgment until we see how this plays out for a cycle. A couple things that mitigate your concerns:

- Allowing people to buy singles. How many unnecessary extras were floating around before solely because everyone had to buy a pair?

- Buying tickets still carries risk. A couple shows like MSG will probably get gobbled up immediately in the exchange. But there are several shows here where I can easily see people eating extras. Especially upper tier seats.

- A shorter window for lottery entries. Ends tomorrow and so far every show is still at 99% for reserved. If things hold ok, the vast majority will get taken care of through 10C.

The way I have seen it go down in recent systems, with a relatively restricted ability to share tickets:

People put in with friends, family (who wouldnt ordinarily have an account), etc.  Good 10c numbers go for reserved.  All the fluff doubles up on GA requests.  "Extra" GA tickets get traded for other "extra" GA tickets.  If GA is acquired, decent reserved seat is traded or sold here at face value.  As a result, reserved seniority is skewed way to higher numbers.  Medium numbers have been pushed way to the back.

Im glad that the 'trading my extra pair of GA for extra GA" is done and we wont see the same cartel of people at GA at every show (I think)....    

With this, I also feel like we are going to get a lot of 'ill try the odds and see what I get and figure out logistics later" people who are going to go for tickets at no risk and later surrender them on ticket exchange.

I get the whole 'thats great, it will get the tickets into fans' hands argument.... but between the lottery and then, we have the fan verified presale and public sale.  I would rather obtain tickets in the lottery than need to get into another lottery later for other people's tickets who won the original lottery, most of which should have probably not have been in the lottery, decreasing the need for the ticket exchange.

This is also another layer of ticketmaster slime.

MayDay10 said:

I understand server and technology requirements, etc.

It doesnt take away a deep mis-trust of ticketmaster/live nation/tickets.com, etc.  Whether its fees, good seats mysteriously unavailable and scalped, clicking on the images that show storefronts, etc.  Mis-trust based on numerous bad experiences in the past.  

Hearing about 10c implementing a resale system powered by ticketmaster, my immediate reaction is how much are the "convenience" fees going to be and/or what % of the cut with TM take?  Maybe none?  It could be.  But right now, I have distrust.

MayDay10 said:

I understand server and technology requirements, etc.

It doesnt take away a deep mis-trust of ticketmaster/live nation/tickets.com, etc.  Whether its fees, good seats mysteriously unavailable and scalped, clicking on the images that show storefronts, etc.  Mis-trust based on numerous bad experiences in the past.  

Hearing about 10c implementing a resale system powered by ticketmaster, my immediate reaction is how much are the "convenience" fees going to be and/or what % of the cut with TM take?  Maybe none?  It could be.  But right now, I have distrust.

• One of the primary use cases for Captcha is to help prevent bots, but another is to help machine learning systems train their image recognitions. A particularly critical use case for image recognition is autonomous vehicles, so you should expect to see those even more. This is likely out of TM's court, and within Google's
• If you've ever worked with inventory management systems, you'd know that what might look like malice from the outside, could very easily be glitches on the inside. In TM's case, I believe it could be a blend at this point
• The fees are the fees. If TM has exclusives with venues PJ wants to play at, PJ probably has leverage to say "we'll use you for ticket management for our Club, but we want a reduced fee structure in return", to give TM a small piece of a pie (instead of all of no pie)
• Whether or not Ticketmaster is behaving righteously today, I don't know how they could ever eradicate skepticism. What would be a demonstrable faith-restoring act from Ticketmaster; what would be enough to earn trust?

NM70698 said:

Are assigned seat locations still a mystery until night of the show?  I've been out of the loop a long time.  Do a portion of seats still get assigned at random so that high number members have a shot at good seats?  Thanks.

benjs said:

MayDay10 said:

I understand server and technology requirements, etc.

It doesnt take away a deep mis-trust of ticketmaster/live nation/tickets.com, etc.  Whether its fees, good seats mysteriously unavailable and scalped, clicking on the images that show storefronts, etc.  Mis-trust based on numerous bad experiences in the past.  

Hearing about 10c implementing a resale system powered by ticketmaster, my immediate reaction is how much are the "convenience" fees going to be and/or what % of the cut with TM take?  Maybe none?  It could be.  But right now, I have distrust.

• One of the primary use cases for Captcha is to help prevent bots, but another is to help machine learning systems train their image recognitions. A particularly critical use case for image recognition is autonomous vehicles, so you should expect to see those even more. This is likely out of TM's court, and within Google's
• If you've ever worked with inventory management systems, you'd know that what might look like malice from the outside, could very easily be glitches on the inside. In TM's case, I believe it could be a blend at this point
• The fees are the fees. If TM has exclusives with venues PJ wants to play at, PJ probably has leverage to say "we'll use you for ticket management for our Club, but we want a reduced fee structure in return", to give TM a small piece of a pie (instead of all of no pie)
• Whether or not Ticketmaster is behaving righteously today, I don't know how they could ever eradicate skepticism. What would be a demonstrable faith-restoring act from Ticketmaster; what would be enough to earn trust?

P-Town-P-Jam-Fan said:

benjs said:

MayDay10 said:

I understand server and technology requirements, etc.

It doesnt take away a deep mis-trust of ticketmaster/live nation/tickets.com, etc.  Whether its fees, good seats mysteriously unavailable and scalped, clicking on the images that show storefronts, etc.  Mis-trust based on numerous bad experiences in the past.  

Hearing about 10c implementing a resale system powered by ticketmaster, my immediate reaction is how much are the "convenience" fees going to be and/or what % of the cut with TM take?  Maybe none?  It could be.  But right now, I have distrust.

• One of the primary use cases for Captcha is to help prevent bots, but another is to help machine learning systems train their image recognitions. A particularly critical use case for image recognition is autonomous vehicles, so you should expect to see those even more. This is likely out of TM's court, and within Google's
• If you've ever worked with inventory management systems, you'd know that what might look like malice from the outside, could very easily be glitches on the inside. In TM's case, I believe it could be a blend at this point
• The fees are the fees. If TM has exclusives with venues PJ wants to play at, PJ probably has leverage to say "we'll use you for ticket management for our Club, but we want a reduced fee structure in return", to give TM a small piece of a pie (instead of all of no pie)
• Whether or not Ticketmaster is behaving righteously today, I don't know how they could ever eradicate skepticism. What would be a demonstrable faith-restoring act from Ticketmaster; what would be enough to earn trust?

Does TM even use CAPTCHAs anymore?  When is the last time you bought tickets to a concert.  100% of big shows use a VWR or virtual waiting room these days.  Can't remember the last time I saw a CAPTCHA on ticketmaster.  Its not a bad thing, CAPTCHA was solvable by bots.  The VWR is a way better system for preventing ticket bots

Lost_And_No_Guide said:

I wonder if all tickets (10C lottery, VF presale, public) will be subject to the Fan-to-Fan Face Value system.
That's the potential weak link IMO--if TM gets an allotment for their own distribution (the public onsale tickets), I do not trust them not to hold back a portion of the best seats for themselves to put on the "Ticketmaster Verified Resale" market (also known as the "everybody's in on it scalping market")