After more thought I am still most alarmed by the reactions people are having....but I agree with a few of the posters here who suggested that Nike might just be doing this for their own publicity.
If you make a product that markets itself to everyone it is just the current day and time where you have to be sensitive to all sorts of shit you never did before. Be smart. Damn, a company that big...pay an outside firm to make sure your ideas seem bulletproof.
Right or wrong, if a significant portion of your sales comes from a group who might be somehow offended by your marketing...don't do it.
The idea of promotional programs is typically not to alienate people.
I'm sure Nike is pleased as punch. I don't think that makes the reason behind the objection black people have about the shoe any less understandable .... Like I said in the first place, I find it kind of hard to believe that Nike wouldn't have seen this coming, so I therefore have to wonder if Nike did this by design, knowing exactly what would happen. Of course, it's unlikely that anyone could ever prove that if true, unless some whistleblower came out with it.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
This is crazy. Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?
Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.
Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.
See, this is the problem. It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page. Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything. It shows the weakness of the left. Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag. It's not their fucking flag. Take the whole thing back.
I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.
The Confederate flag and the original stars and stripes are NOT the same thing. How can you even make that argument? The only thing they have in common is that they're both over 100 years old. The latter is symbol of secession, treason and a 'Cause' predicated on slavery. The US was not founded on protecting the slave economy from England banning it.
The Union Jack has been around since the early 17th century, when England had all sorts of atrocities. Are they trying to ban that flag? It's stupid. Sorry you as a Canadian don't understand why I, and American wants to keep white nationalists from co-oping the history of my country.
I didn't say they are the same thing. I was drawing a parallel. I'm sure that conversation about parallels has been had enough times, lol.
I don't think this is about being Canadian, since lots and lots of Americans apparently agree with my view of this. I'm sorry you're upset that white nationalists have cooped a couple of your flags from the slave days, but that's just how it's panned out. Life isn't always fair. I'd personally rather side with the people who have suffered terrible injustices in a racist America and who are offended by symbols from the slave days that are used by hate groups than I would those who want to get bent out of shape because a flag they haven't given a second thought to a day in their lives isn't being promoted on a running shoe because it's offensive to black Americans.
I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one". Instead, I want to take it back. Fuck that and fuck them. It isn't how "life panned out". I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me. I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.
But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.
Me taking offense over what? I'm not one to get offended at all. If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do). Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner? Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws? And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today? That seems awfully presumptuous.
Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.
You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.
It's not just about the flag. It's all sorts of things that the left allows to be co-oped. That's my point. The left is weak and doesn't know how to fight on these important topics. One of the things I like most about Mayor Pete is that he's fighting to take back what the teachings of Jesus are really about. I love that about him. I want more of that.
This is crazy. Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?
Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.
Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.
See, this is the problem. It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page. Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything. It shows the weakness of the left. Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag. It's not their fucking flag. Take the whole thing back.
I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.
The Confederate flag and the original stars and stripes are NOT the same thing. How can you even make that argument? The only thing they have in common is that they're both over 100 years old. The latter is symbol of secession, treason and a 'Cause' predicated on slavery. The US was not founded on protecting the slave economy from England banning it.
The Union Jack has been around since the early 17th century, when England had all sorts of atrocities. Are they trying to ban that flag? It's stupid. Sorry you as a Canadian don't understand why I, and American wants to keep white nationalists from co-oping the history of my country.
I didn't say they are the same thing. I was drawing a parallel. I'm sure that conversation about parallels has been had enough times, lol.
I don't think this is about being Canadian, since lots and lots of Americans apparently agree with my view of this. I'm sorry you're upset that white nationalists have cooped a couple of your flags from the slave days, but that's just how it's panned out. Life isn't always fair. I'd personally rather side with the people who have suffered terrible injustices in a racist America and who are offended by symbols from the slave days that are used by hate groups than I would those who want to get bent out of shape because a flag they haven't given a second thought to a day in their lives isn't being promoted on a running shoe because it's offensive to black Americans.
I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one". Instead, I want to take it back. Fuck that and fuck them. It isn't how "life panned out". I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me. I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.
But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.
Me taking offense over what? I'm not one to get offended at all. If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do). Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner? Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws? And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today? That seems awfully presumptuous.
Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.
You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.
It's not just about the flag. It's all sorts of things that the left allows to be co-oped. That's my point. The left is weak and doesn't know how to fight on these important topics. One of the things I like most about Mayor Pete is that he's fighting to take back what the teachings of Jesus are really about. I love that about him. I want more of that.
I'm don't care about the left in this case. I'm going with what black Americans think about it, that's all. It actually has nothing to do with politics for me.
But I don't think the left is weak in this context either. I think that perspective is getting pretty cozy with gaslighting.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
This is crazy. Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?
Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.
Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.
See, this is the problem. It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page. Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything. It shows the weakness of the left. Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag. It's not their fucking flag. Take the whole thing back.
I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.
The Confederate flag and the original stars and stripes are NOT the same thing. How can you even make that argument? The only thing they have in common is that they're both over 100 years old. The latter is symbol of secession, treason and a 'Cause' predicated on slavery. The US was not founded on protecting the slave economy from England banning it.
The Union Jack has been around since the early 17th century, when England had all sorts of atrocities. Are they trying to ban that flag? It's stupid. Sorry you as a Canadian don't understand why I, and American wants to keep white nationalists from co-oping the history of my country.
I didn't say they are the same thing. I was drawing a parallel. I'm sure that conversation about parallels has been had enough times, lol.
I don't think this is about being Canadian, since lots and lots of Americans apparently agree with my view of this. I'm sorry you're upset that white nationalists have cooped a couple of your flags from the slave days, but that's just how it's panned out. Life isn't always fair. I'd personally rather side with the people who have suffered terrible injustices in a racist America and who are offended by symbols from the slave days that are used by hate groups than I would those who want to get bent out of shape because a flag they haven't given a second thought to a day in their lives isn't being promoted on a running shoe because it's offensive to black Americans.
I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one". Instead, I want to take it back. Fuck that and fuck them. It isn't how "life panned out". I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me. I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.
But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.
Me taking offense over what? I'm not one to get offended at all. If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do). Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner? Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws? And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today? That seems awfully presumptuous.
Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.
You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.
It's not just about the flag. It's all sorts of things that the left allows to be co-oped. That's my point. The left is weak and doesn't know how to fight on these important topics. One of the things I like most about Mayor Pete is that he's fighting to take back what the teachings of Jesus are really about. I love that about him. I want more of that.
I'm don't care about the left in this case. I'm going with what black Americans think about it, that's all. It actually has nothing to do with politics for me.
But I don't think the left is weak in this context either. I think that perspective is getting pretty cozy with gaslighting.
So I'm gaslighting people because I speak my beliefs. Got it. Makes perfect sense.
Is Colin speaking for all black Americans? Does he have that right because he's black? If so, awesome. I'd like to speak for all white Americans. Then I can really gaslight the fuck out of people.
I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one". Instead, I want to take it back. Fuck that and fuck them. It isn't how "life panned out". I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me. I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.
But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.
Me taking offense over what? I'm not one to get offended at all. If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do). Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner? Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws? And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today? That seems awfully presumptuous.
Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.
You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.
It's not just about the flag. It's all sorts of things that the left allows to be co-oped. That's my point. The left is weak and doesn't know how to fight on these important topics. One of the things I like most about Mayor Pete is that he's fighting to take back what the teachings of Jesus are really about. I love that about him. I want more of that.
I'm don't care about the left in this case. I'm going with what black Americans think about it, that's all. It actually has nothing to do with politics for me.
But I don't think the left is weak in this context either. I think that perspective is getting pretty cozy with gaslighting.
So I'm gaslighting people because I speak my beliefs. Got it. Makes perfect sense.
Is Colin speaking for all black Americans? Does he have that right because he's black? If so, awesome. I'd like to speak for all white Americans. Then I can really gaslight the fuck out of people.
I'm curious to know why you seem to be rather pissed off.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one". Instead, I want to take it back. Fuck that and fuck them. It isn't how "life panned out". I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me. I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.
But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.
Me taking offense over what? I'm not one to get offended at all. If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do). Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner? Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws? And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today? That seems awfully presumptuous.
Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.
You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.
It's not just about the flag. It's all sorts of things that the left allows to be co-oped. That's my point. The left is weak and doesn't know how to fight on these important topics. One of the things I like most about Mayor Pete is that he's fighting to take back what the teachings of Jesus are really about. I love that about him. I want more of that.
I'm don't care about the left in this case. I'm going with what black Americans think about it, that's all. It actually has nothing to do with politics for me.
But I don't think the left is weak in this context either. I think that perspective is getting pretty cozy with gaslighting.
So I'm gaslighting people because I speak my beliefs. Got it. Makes perfect sense.
Is Colin speaking for all black Americans? Does he have that right because he's black? If so, awesome. I'd like to speak for all white Americans. Then I can really gaslight the fuck out of people.
I'm curious to know why you seem to be rather pissed off.
I already said why.. thrice. I'm aggravated that we allow the right wingers to co-op important symbols and religion, and then we concede that now those things are racist or whatever. It's annoying as hell. I get that you don't care about the flag, but I'm a history guy. I care. I care about the teachings of Jesus. These things are important to me and I'm not going to give them up easily. It's that freakin' simple.
But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.
Me taking offense over what? I'm not one to get offended at all. If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do). Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner? Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws? And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today? That seems awfully presumptuous.
Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.
You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.
It's not just about the flag. It's all sorts of things that the left allows to be co-oped. That's my point. The left is weak and doesn't know how to fight on these important topics. One of the things I like most about Mayor Pete is that he's fighting to take back what the teachings of Jesus are really about. I love that about him. I want more of that.
I'm don't care about the left in this case. I'm going with what black Americans think about it, that's all. It actually has nothing to do with politics for me.
But I don't think the left is weak in this context either. I think that perspective is getting pretty cozy with gaslighting.
So I'm gaslighting people because I speak my beliefs. Got it. Makes perfect sense.
Is Colin speaking for all black Americans? Does he have that right because he's black? If so, awesome. I'd like to speak for all white Americans. Then I can really gaslight the fuck out of people.
I'm curious to know why you seem to be rather pissed off.
I already said why.. thrice. I'm aggravated that we allow the right wingers to co-op important symbols and religion, and then we concede that now those things are racist or whatever. It's annoying as hell. I get that you don't care about the flag, but I'm a history guy. I care. I care about the teachings of Jesus. These things are important to me and I'm not going to give them up easily. It's that freakin' simple.
(I'm a history gal, so that has nothing to do with it - being into history doesn't mean we have to "cherish" everything out of history. We can hate shit out of history too, and that is often the case for me when it comes to American history, since it's such an appalling history). So why don't you get mad at the alt-right who co-opted the symbols instead of the ones who are simply putting that into modern context because of the injustices they have experienced throughout American history? You are apparently mad at the left, and not the alt-right, who is who you should be mad at.
As for the religious thing... that has nothing to do with this IMO. Religion has always and will always have a huge number of crazy fucking fanatics who are a blight on society, and there have always been those who think this world would be far better off without religion at all, and that, if Jesus were real, he'd be rolling in his grave over ALL the organized religion. Nothing new there.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.
Me taking offense over what? I'm not one to get offended at all. If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do). Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner? Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws? And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today? That seems awfully presumptuous.
Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.
You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.
It's not just about the flag. It's all sorts of things that the left allows to be co-oped. That's my point. The left is weak and doesn't know how to fight on these important topics. One of the things I like most about Mayor Pete is that he's fighting to take back what the teachings of Jesus are really about. I love that about him. I want more of that.
I'm don't care about the left in this case. I'm going with what black Americans think about it, that's all. It actually has nothing to do with politics for me.
But I don't think the left is weak in this context either. I think that perspective is getting pretty cozy with gaslighting.
So I'm gaslighting people because I speak my beliefs. Got it. Makes perfect sense.
Is Colin speaking for all black Americans? Does he have that right because he's black? If so, awesome. I'd like to speak for all white Americans. Then I can really gaslight the fuck out of people.
I'm curious to know why you seem to be rather pissed off.
I already said why.. thrice. I'm aggravated that we allow the right wingers to co-op important symbols and religion, and then we concede that now those things are racist or whatever. It's annoying as hell. I get that you don't care about the flag, but I'm a history guy. I care. I care about the teachings of Jesus. These things are important to me and I'm not going to give them up easily. It's that freakin' simple.
(I'm a history gal, so that has nothing to do with it - being into history doesn't mean we have to "cherish" everything out of history. We can hate shit out of history too, and that is often the case for me when it comes to American history, since it's such an appalling history). So why don't you get mad at the alt-right who co-opted the symbols instead of the ones who are simply putting that into modern context because of the injustices they have experienced throughout American history? You are apparently mad at the left, and not the alt-right, who is who you should be mad at.
As for the religious thing... that has nothing to do with this IMO. Religion has always and will always have a huge number of crazy fucking fanatics who are a blight on society, and there have always been those who think this world would be far better off without religion at all, and that, if Jesus were real, he'd be rolling in his grave over ALL the organized religion. Nothing new there.
Ugh, I don't even know what you're arguing here. I want the left to fight and not abdicate. Sure, I'm mad at the alt-right, but I hate them so what's the point of that? I expect nothing less than shitty from them. And Jesus was real. There's no debate on the historical Jesus in antiquity academic circles. Whether you believe he is the Son of God or not, his philosophical teachings provide an invaluable guide to leading a life of good works and charity. And that's why it's important not to concede him to the right as well.
You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.
It's not just about the flag. It's all sorts of things that the left allows to be co-oped. That's my point. The left is weak and doesn't know how to fight on these important topics. One of the things I like most about Mayor Pete is that he's fighting to take back what the teachings of Jesus are really about. I love that about him. I want more of that.
I'm don't care about the left in this case. I'm going with what black Americans think about it, that's all. It actually has nothing to do with politics for me.
But I don't think the left is weak in this context either. I think that perspective is getting pretty cozy with gaslighting.
So I'm gaslighting people because I speak my beliefs. Got it. Makes perfect sense.
Is Colin speaking for all black Americans? Does he have that right because he's black? If so, awesome. I'd like to speak for all white Americans. Then I can really gaslight the fuck out of people.
I'm curious to know why you seem to be rather pissed off.
I already said why.. thrice. I'm aggravated that we allow the right wingers to co-op important symbols and religion, and then we concede that now those things are racist or whatever. It's annoying as hell. I get that you don't care about the flag, but I'm a history guy. I care. I care about the teachings of Jesus. These things are important to me and I'm not going to give them up easily. It's that freakin' simple.
(I'm a history gal, so that has nothing to do with it - being into history doesn't mean we have to "cherish" everything out of history. We can hate shit out of history too, and that is often the case for me when it comes to American history, since it's such an appalling history). So why don't you get mad at the alt-right who co-opted the symbols instead of the ones who are simply putting that into modern context because of the injustices they have experienced throughout American history? You are apparently mad at the left, and not the alt-right, who is who you should be mad at.
As for the religious thing... that has nothing to do with this IMO. Religion has always and will always have a huge number of crazy fucking fanatics who are a blight on society, and there have always been those who think this world would be far better off without religion at all, and that, if Jesus were real, he'd be rolling in his grave over ALL the organized religion. Nothing new there.
Ugh, I don't even know what you're arguing here. I want the left to fight and not abdicate. Sure, I'm mad at the alt-right, but I hate them so what's the point of that? I expect nothing less than shitty from them. And Jesus was real. There's no debate on the historical Jesus in antiquity academic circles. Whether you believe he is the Son of God or not, his philosophical teachings provide an invaluable guide to leading a life of good works and charity. And that's why it's important not to concede him to the right as well.
There actually is a pretty robust debate about whether or not Jesus existed. Google it if you're interested (but it doesn't sound like you would be). Me, I'm undecided - there are good arguments on both sides. Luckily, I don't have to make a decision, since I'm an Atheist.
Personally, I think the left has better things to do right now than to fight for obsolete flags from the slave days.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Thanks, HFD. That is interesting and telling to me. I guess Kaep isn't actually the voice of all black people in this country. Who knew?
Everyone knew. For me, if it bothers any of them, good enough.
I would love to know what Obama has to say about this shoe though.
So would I. I wonder who Nike polled about this? Was it a knee jerk reaction to the opinion of one of the high profile endorsements, or was there some critical mass of opinion from the black community? And why wasn't that point of view known prior to the manufacture of the shoe?
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I was going to bring my kids to a revolutionary war re-enactment this weekend but after a lot of thought I don’t want them to be exposed to that racist flag the colonists will be waving.
I don't personally care if Obama's level of involvement with his own inauguration decorations (to me that's just giving him a preemptive pass on it if he didn't approve it). it's his inauguration, he should know if he's flying a racist flag behind himself.
"every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"
I don't personally care if Obama's level of involvement with his own inauguration decorations (to me that's just giving him a preemptive pass on it if he didn't approve it). it's his inauguration, he should know if he's flying a racist flag behind himself.
Thanks, HFD. That is interesting and telling to me. I guess Kaep isn't actually the voice of all black people in this country. Who knew?
Everyone knew. For me, if it bothers any of them, good enough.
I would love to know what Obama has to say about this shoe though.
So would I. I wonder who Nike polled about this? Was it a knee jerk reaction to the opinion of one of the high profile endorsements, or was there some critical mass of opinion from the black community? And why wasn't that point of view known prior to the manufacture of the shoe?
I'm not really sure it matters now, but I bet Nike doesn't mind, if it wasn't deliberate from the start.
Rolling Stone actually wrote a pretty decent article about the issue of the symbolism. I agree with it.
I don't personally care if Obama's level of involvement with his own inauguration decorations (to me that's just giving him a preemptive pass on it if he didn't approve it). it's his inauguration, he should know if he's flying a racist flag behind himself.
I don't see one of those flags, myself.
it's the same flag as the nike shoe flag.
"every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"
I was going to bring my kids to a revolutionary war re-enactment this weekend but after a lot of thought I don’t want them to be exposed to that racist flag the colonists will be waving.
I was going to bring my kids to a revolutionary war re-enactment this weekend but after a lot of thought I don’t want them to be exposed to that racist flag the colonists will be waving.
Why not? The racists lose, don't they?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't personally care if Obama's level of involvement with his own inauguration decorations (to me that's just giving him a preemptive pass on it if he didn't approve it). it's his inauguration, he should know if he's flying a racist flag behind himself.
Maybe before Trump nobody cared - probably never occurred to anyone back in 2012. Things have actually changed quite a bit since then. And I'm not sure calling it a "racist flag" is exactly right. "Problematic" or something might be better? For now, anyway. After this, a lot more white nationalists will probably start using it!
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
So interestingly... I noticed yesterday that the English national team was wearing the color/style of St. George's cross. And then I remembered that it was prevalent in Charlottesville by the right wingers. I brought up Union Jack earlier, but perhaps this is a perfect corollary. So I did a quick google and low and behold.. Poppy Noor, a woman of color, wrote an article last year about taking back the St George's cross from the right wing. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/sep/12/how-can-we-reclaim-the-st-georges-cross-from-the-far-right This is very close to how I feel.
I want to reclaim the St George’s Cross and St George’s Day. Both the flag and the occasion are things that should represent English people, and it’s sad to see how they have been taken over by the far right for the last couple of decades.
I don't personally care if Obama's level of involvement with his own inauguration decorations (to me that's just giving him a preemptive pass on it if he didn't approve it). it's his inauguration, he should know if he's flying a racist flag behind himself.
Maybe before Trump nobody cared - probably never occurred to anyone back in 2012. Things have actually changed quite a bit since then. And I'm not sure calling it a "racist flag" is exactly right. "Problematic" or something might be better? For now, anyway. After this, a lot more white nationalists will probably start using it!
seems a bit odd if "nobody cared" prior to trump. does that not say something to you?
"every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"
I don't personally care if Obama's level of involvement with his own inauguration decorations (to me that's just giving him a preemptive pass on it if he didn't approve it). it's his inauguration, he should know if he's flying a racist flag behind himself.
Maybe before Trump nobody cared - probably never occurred to anyone back in 2012. Things have actually changed quite a bit since then. And I'm not sure calling it a "racist flag" is exactly right. "Problematic" or something might be better? For now, anyway. After this, a lot more white nationalists will probably start using it!
seems a bit odd if "nobody cared" prior to trump. does that not say something to you?
Yes, that America is fucked thanks to Trump. And that perspectives change through time.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't personally care if Obama's level of involvement with his own inauguration decorations (to me that's just giving him a preemptive pass on it if he didn't approve it). it's his inauguration, he should know if he's flying a racist flag behind himself.
I don't see one of those flags, myself.
it's the same flag as the nike shoe flag.
I know. I don't see a racist flag behind Obama. And my guess is he didn't either.
I don't personally care if Obama's level of involvement with his own inauguration decorations (to me that's just giving him a preemptive pass on it if he didn't approve it). it's his inauguration, he should know if he's flying a racist flag behind himself.
I don't see one of those flags, myself.
it's the same flag as the nike shoe flag.
I know. I don't see a racist flag behind Obama. And my guess is he didn't either.
Comments
Is Colin speaking for all black Americans? Does he have that right because he's black? If so, awesome. I'd like to speak for all white Americans. Then I can really gaslight the fuck out of people.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
And it can be rightfully attacked. But it serves no point.
Obama's second inauguration.
And Jesus was real. There's no debate on the historical Jesus in antiquity academic circles. Whether you believe he is the Son of God or not, his philosophical teachings provide an invaluable guide to leading a life of good works and charity. And that's why it's important not to concede him to the right as well.
I want to reclaim the St George’s Cross and St George’s Day. Both the flag and the occasion are things that should represent English people, and it’s sad to see how they have been taken over by the far right for the last couple of decades.