Kaepernick

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  

Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.

See, this is the problem.  It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page.  Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything.  It shows the weakness of the left.  Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag.  It's not their fucking flag.  Take the whole thing back.  

I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.

The Confederate flag and the original stars and stripes are NOT the same thing.  How can you even make that argument?  The only thing they have in common is that they're both over 100 years old.  The latter is symbol of secession, treason and a 'Cause' predicated on slavery.  The US was not founded on protecting the slave economy from England banning it.    

The Union Jack has been around since the early 17th century, when England had all sorts of atrocities.  Are they trying to ban that flag?  It's stupid.  Sorry you as a Canadian don't understand why I, and American wants to keep white nationalists from co-oping the history of my country.  

I didn't say they are the same thing. I was drawing a parallel. I'm sure that conversation about parallels has been had enough times, lol.

I don't think this is about being Canadian, since lots and lots of Americans apparently agree with my view of this. I'm sorry you're upset that white nationalists have cooped a couple of your flags from the slave days, but that's just how it's panned out. Life isn't always fair. I'd personally rather side with the people who have suffered terrible injustices in a racist America and who are offended by symbols from the slave days that are used by hate groups than I would those who want to get bent out of shape because a flag they haven't given a second thought to a day in their lives isn't being promoted on a running shoe because it's offensive to black Americans.

I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one".  Instead, I want to take it back.  Fuck that and fuck them.  It isn't how "life panned out".  I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me.  I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.  

But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.

dankind

https://youtu.be/wTviXBqT-KM

F Me In The Brain

After more thought I am still most alarmed by the reactions people are having....but I agree with a few of the posters here who suggested that Nike might just be doing this for their own publicity. 

If you make a product that markets itself to everyone it is just the current day and time where you have to be sensitive to all sorts of shit you never did before.  Be smart.  Damn, a company that big...pay an outside firm to make sure your ideas seem bulletproof.

Right or wrong, if a significant portion of your sales comes from a group who might be somehow offended by your marketing...don't do it. 

The idea of promotional programs is typically not to alienate people.

pjhawks

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  

Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.

White nationalists fly the 13 colonies at their rallies?
i know our history and there is plenty of bad stuff but this seems like nonsense. 

Yes, they are known to do this, as is being widely reported in the news with this story. That is the whole point and why there is an issue. White nationalists LOVE the old days, before emancipation.

so should we stop selling and using white bed sheets? because you know...?  

Ledbetterman10

pjhawks said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  

Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.

White nationalists fly the 13 colonies at their rallies?
i know our history and there is plenty of bad stuff but this seems like nonsense. 

Yes, they are known to do this, as is being widely reported in the news with this story. That is the whole point and why there is an issue. White nationalists LOVE the old days, before emancipation.

so should we stop selling and using white bed sheets? because you know...?  

Get rid of the $100 bill as well because Ben Franklin owned slaves. 

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  

Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.

See, this is the problem.  It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page.  Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything.  It shows the weakness of the left.  Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag.  It's not their fucking flag.  Take the whole thing back.  

I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.

The Confederate flag and the original stars and stripes are NOT the same thing.  How can you even make that argument?  The only thing they have in common is that they're both over 100 years old.  The latter is symbol of secession, treason and a 'Cause' predicated on slavery.  The US was not founded on protecting the slave economy from England banning it.    

The Union Jack has been around since the early 17th century, when England had all sorts of atrocities.  Are they trying to ban that flag?  It's stupid.  Sorry you as a Canadian don't understand why I, and American wants to keep white nationalists from co-oping the history of my country.  

I didn't say they are the same thing. I was drawing a parallel. I'm sure that conversation about parallels has been had enough times, lol.

I don't think this is about being Canadian, since lots and lots of Americans apparently agree with my view of this. I'm sorry you're upset that white nationalists have cooped a couple of your flags from the slave days, but that's just how it's panned out. Life isn't always fair. I'd personally rather side with the people who have suffered terrible injustices in a racist America and who are offended by symbols from the slave days that are used by hate groups than I would those who want to get bent out of shape because a flag they haven't given a second thought to a day in their lives isn't being promoted on a running shoe because it's offensive to black Americans.

I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one".  Instead, I want to take it back.  Fuck that and fuck them.  It isn't how "life panned out".  I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me.  I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.  

But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.

Me taking offense over what?  I'm not one to get offended at all.  If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do).  Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner?  Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws?  And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today?  That seems awfully presumptuous.  

Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.  

jeffbr

Ledbetterman10 said:

pjhawks said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  

Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.

White nationalists fly the 13 colonies at their rallies?
i know our history and there is plenty of bad stuff but this seems like nonsense. 

Yes, they are known to do this, as is being widely reported in the news with this story. That is the whole point and why there is an issue. White nationalists LOVE the old days, before emancipation.

so should we stop selling and using white bed sheets? because you know...?  

Get rid of the $100 bill as well because Ben Franklin owned slaves. 

Yup. And the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were around during the days of slavery. Get rid of them, too. lol.

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  

Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.

See, this is the problem.  It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page.  Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything.  It shows the weakness of the left.  Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag.  It's not their fucking flag.  Take the whole thing back.  

I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.

The Confederate flag and the original stars and stripes are NOT the same thing.  How can you even make that argument?  The only thing they have in common is that they're both over 100 years old.  The latter is symbol of secession, treason and a 'Cause' predicated on slavery.  The US was not founded on protecting the slave economy from England banning it.    

The Union Jack has been around since the early 17th century, when England had all sorts of atrocities.  Are they trying to ban that flag?  It's stupid.  Sorry you as a Canadian don't understand why I, and American wants to keep white nationalists from co-oping the history of my country.  

I didn't say they are the same thing. I was drawing a parallel. I'm sure that conversation about parallels has been had enough times, lol.

I don't think this is about being Canadian, since lots and lots of Americans apparently agree with my view of this. I'm sorry you're upset that white nationalists have cooped a couple of your flags from the slave days, but that's just how it's panned out. Life isn't always fair. I'd personally rather side with the people who have suffered terrible injustices in a racist America and who are offended by symbols from the slave days that are used by hate groups than I would those who want to get bent out of shape because a flag they haven't given a second thought to a day in their lives isn't being promoted on a running shoe because it's offensive to black Americans.

I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one".  Instead, I want to take it back.  Fuck that and fuck them.  It isn't how "life panned out".  I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me.  I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.  

But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.

Me taking offense over what?  I'm not one to get offended at all.  If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do).  Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner?  Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws?  And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today?  That seems awfully presumptuous.  

Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.  

You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.

PJ_Soul

pjhawks said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  

Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.

White nationalists fly the 13 colonies at their rallies?
i know our history and there is plenty of bad stuff but this seems like nonsense. 

Yes, they are known to do this, as is being widely reported in the news with this story. That is the whole point and why there is an issue. White nationalists LOVE the old days, before emancipation.

so should we stop selling and using white bed sheets? because you know...?  

Er, no. That makes no sense. KKK members use actual costumes, not white bed sheets - even at the beginning, there was some stylizing going on there. So KKK costumes certainly shouldn't be sold. I think you're thinking about Halloween ghosts?

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  

Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.

See, this is the problem.  It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page.  Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything.  It shows the weakness of the left.  Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag.  It's not their fucking flag.  Take the whole thing back.  

I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.

The Confederate flag and the original stars and stripes are NOT the same thing.  How can you even make that argument?  The only thing they have in common is that they're both over 100 years old.  The latter is symbol of secession, treason and a 'Cause' predicated on slavery.  The US was not founded on protecting the slave economy from England banning it.    

The Union Jack has been around since the early 17th century, when England had all sorts of atrocities.  Are they trying to ban that flag?  It's stupid.  Sorry you as a Canadian don't understand why I, and American wants to keep white nationalists from co-oping the history of my country.  

I didn't say they are the same thing. I was drawing a parallel. I'm sure that conversation about parallels has been had enough times, lol.

I don't think this is about being Canadian, since lots and lots of Americans apparently agree with my view of this. I'm sorry you're upset that white nationalists have cooped a couple of your flags from the slave days, but that's just how it's panned out. Life isn't always fair. I'd personally rather side with the people who have suffered terrible injustices in a racist America and who are offended by symbols from the slave days that are used by hate groups than I would those who want to get bent out of shape because a flag they haven't given a second thought to a day in their lives isn't being promoted on a running shoe because it's offensive to black Americans.

I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one".  Instead, I want to take it back.  Fuck that and fuck them.  It isn't how "life panned out".  I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me.  I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.  

But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.

Me taking offense over what?  I'm not one to get offended at all.  If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do).  Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner?  Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws?  And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today?  That seems awfully presumptuous.  

Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.  

I really don't think the slippery slope argument is working for you or anyone else in this thread.

PJ_Soul

F Me In The Brain said:

After more thought I am still most alarmed by the reactions people are having....but I agree with a few of the posters here who suggested that Nike might just be doing this for their own publicity. 

If you make a product that markets itself to everyone it is just the current day and time where you have to be sensitive to all sorts of shit you never did before.  Be smart.  Damn, a company that big...pay an outside firm to make sure your ideas seem bulletproof.

Right or wrong, if a significant portion of your sales comes from a group who might be somehow offended by your marketing...don't do it. 

The idea of promotional programs is typically not to alienate people.

I'm sure Nike is pleased as punch. I don't think that makes the reason behind the objection black people have about the shoe any less understandable .... Like I said in the first place, I find it kind of hard to believe that Nike wouldn't have seen this coming, so I therefore have to wonder if Nike did this by design, knowing exactly what would happen. Of course, it's unlikely that anyone could ever prove that if true, unless some whistleblower came out with it.

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  

Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.

See, this is the problem.  It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page.  Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything.  It shows the weakness of the left.  Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag.  It's not their fucking flag.  Take the whole thing back.  

I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.

The Confederate flag and the original stars and stripes are NOT the same thing.  How can you even make that argument?  The only thing they have in common is that they're both over 100 years old.  The latter is symbol of secession, treason and a 'Cause' predicated on slavery.  The US was not founded on protecting the slave economy from England banning it.    

The Union Jack has been around since the early 17th century, when England had all sorts of atrocities.  Are they trying to ban that flag?  It's stupid.  Sorry you as a Canadian don't understand why I, and American wants to keep white nationalists from co-oping the history of my country.  

I didn't say they are the same thing. I was drawing a parallel. I'm sure that conversation about parallels has been had enough times, lol.

I don't think this is about being Canadian, since lots and lots of Americans apparently agree with my view of this. I'm sorry you're upset that white nationalists have cooped a couple of your flags from the slave days, but that's just how it's panned out. Life isn't always fair. I'd personally rather side with the people who have suffered terrible injustices in a racist America and who are offended by symbols from the slave days that are used by hate groups than I would those who want to get bent out of shape because a flag they haven't given a second thought to a day in their lives isn't being promoted on a running shoe because it's offensive to black Americans.

I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one".  Instead, I want to take it back.  Fuck that and fuck them.  It isn't how "life panned out".  I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me.  I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.  

But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.

Me taking offense over what?  I'm not one to get offended at all.  If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do).  Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner?  Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws?  And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today?  That seems awfully presumptuous.  

Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.  

You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.

It's not just about the flag.  It's all sorts of things that the left allows to be co-oped.  That's my point.  The left is weak and doesn't know how to fight on these important topics.  One of the things I like most about Mayor Pete is that he's fighting to take back what the teachings of Jesus are really about.  I love that about him.  I want more of that.  

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  

Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.

See, this is the problem.  It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page.  Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything.  It shows the weakness of the left.  Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag.  It's not their fucking flag.  Take the whole thing back.  

I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.

The Confederate flag and the original stars and stripes are NOT the same thing.  How can you even make that argument?  The only thing they have in common is that they're both over 100 years old.  The latter is symbol of secession, treason and a 'Cause' predicated on slavery.  The US was not founded on protecting the slave economy from England banning it.    

The Union Jack has been around since the early 17th century, when England had all sorts of atrocities.  Are they trying to ban that flag?  It's stupid.  Sorry you as a Canadian don't understand why I, and American wants to keep white nationalists from co-oping the history of my country.  

I didn't say they are the same thing. I was drawing a parallel. I'm sure that conversation about parallels has been had enough times, lol.

I don't think this is about being Canadian, since lots and lots of Americans apparently agree with my view of this. I'm sorry you're upset that white nationalists have cooped a couple of your flags from the slave days, but that's just how it's panned out. Life isn't always fair. I'd personally rather side with the people who have suffered terrible injustices in a racist America and who are offended by symbols from the slave days that are used by hate groups than I would those who want to get bent out of shape because a flag they haven't given a second thought to a day in their lives isn't being promoted on a running shoe because it's offensive to black Americans.

I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one".  Instead, I want to take it back.  Fuck that and fuck them.  It isn't how "life panned out".  I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me.  I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.  

But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.

Me taking offense over what?  I'm not one to get offended at all.  If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do).  Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner?  Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws?  And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today?  That seems awfully presumptuous.  

Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.  

You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.

It's not just about the flag.  It's all sorts of things that the left allows to be co-oped.  That's my point.  The left is weak and doesn't know how to fight on these important topics.  One of the things I like most about Mayor Pete is that he's fighting to take back what the teachings of Jesus are really about.  I love that about him.  I want more of that.  

I'm don't care about the left in this case. I'm going with what black Americans think about it, that's all. It actually has nothing to do with politics for me.

But I don't think the left is weak in this context either. I think that perspective is getting pretty cozy with gaslighting.

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  

Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.

See, this is the problem.  It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page.  Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything.  It shows the weakness of the left.  Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag.  It's not their fucking flag.  Take the whole thing back.  

I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.

The Confederate flag and the original stars and stripes are NOT the same thing.  How can you even make that argument?  The only thing they have in common is that they're both over 100 years old.  The latter is symbol of secession, treason and a 'Cause' predicated on slavery.  The US was not founded on protecting the slave economy from England banning it.    

The Union Jack has been around since the early 17th century, when England had all sorts of atrocities.  Are they trying to ban that flag?  It's stupid.  Sorry you as a Canadian don't understand why I, and American wants to keep white nationalists from co-oping the history of my country.  

I didn't say they are the same thing. I was drawing a parallel. I'm sure that conversation about parallels has been had enough times, lol.

I don't think this is about being Canadian, since lots and lots of Americans apparently agree with my view of this. I'm sorry you're upset that white nationalists have cooped a couple of your flags from the slave days, but that's just how it's panned out. Life isn't always fair. I'd personally rather side with the people who have suffered terrible injustices in a racist America and who are offended by symbols from the slave days that are used by hate groups than I would those who want to get bent out of shape because a flag they haven't given a second thought to a day in their lives isn't being promoted on a running shoe because it's offensive to black Americans.

I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one".  Instead, I want to take it back.  Fuck that and fuck them.  It isn't how "life panned out".  I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me.  I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.  

But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.

Me taking offense over what?  I'm not one to get offended at all.  If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do).  Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner?  Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws?  And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today?  That seems awfully presumptuous.  

Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.  

You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.

It's not just about the flag.  It's all sorts of things that the left allows to be co-oped.  That's my point.  The left is weak and doesn't know how to fight on these important topics.  One of the things I like most about Mayor Pete is that he's fighting to take back what the teachings of Jesus are really about.  I love that about him.  I want more of that.  

I'm don't care about the left in this case. I'm going with what black Americans think about it, that's all. It actually has nothing to do with politics for me.

But I don't think the left is weak in this context either. I think that perspective is getting pretty cozy with gaslighting.

So I'm gaslighting people because I speak my beliefs.  Got it.  Makes perfect sense.  

Is Colin speaking for all black Americans?  Does he have that right because he's black?  If so, awesome.  I'd like to speak for all white Americans.  Then I can really gaslight the fuck out of people.  

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one".  Instead, I want to take it back.  Fuck that and fuck them.  It isn't how "life panned out".  I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me.  I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.  

But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.

Me taking offense over what?  I'm not one to get offended at all.  If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do).  Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner?  Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws?  And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today?  That seems awfully presumptuous.  

Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.  

You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.

It's not just about the flag.  It's all sorts of things that the left allows to be co-oped.  That's my point.  The left is weak and doesn't know how to fight on these important topics.  One of the things I like most about Mayor Pete is that he's fighting to take back what the teachings of Jesus are really about.  I love that about him.  I want more of that.  

I'm don't care about the left in this case. I'm going with what black Americans think about it, that's all. It actually has nothing to do with politics for me.

But I don't think the left is weak in this context either. I think that perspective is getting pretty cozy with gaslighting.

So I'm gaslighting people because I speak my beliefs.  Got it.  Makes perfect sense.  

Is Colin speaking for all black Americans?  Does he have that right because he's black?  If so, awesome.  I'd like to speak for all white Americans.  Then I can really gaslight the fuck out of people.  

I'm curious to know why you seem to be rather pissed off.

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one".  Instead, I want to take it back.  Fuck that and fuck them.  It isn't how "life panned out".  I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me.  I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.  

But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.

Me taking offense over what?  I'm not one to get offended at all.  If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do).  Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner?  Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws?  And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today?  That seems awfully presumptuous.  

Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.  

You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.

It's not just about the flag.  It's all sorts of things that the left allows to be co-oped.  That's my point.  The left is weak and doesn't know how to fight on these important topics.  One of the things I like most about Mayor Pete is that he's fighting to take back what the teachings of Jesus are really about.  I love that about him.  I want more of that.  

I'm don't care about the left in this case. I'm going with what black Americans think about it, that's all. It actually has nothing to do with politics for me.

But I don't think the left is weak in this context either. I think that perspective is getting pretty cozy with gaslighting.

So I'm gaslighting people because I speak my beliefs.  Got it.  Makes perfect sense.  

Is Colin speaking for all black Americans?  Does he have that right because he's black?  If so, awesome.  I'd like to speak for all white Americans.  Then I can really gaslight the fuck out of people.  

I'm curious to know why you seem to be rather pissed off.

I already said why.. thrice.  I'm aggravated that we allow the right wingers to co-op important symbols and religion, and then we concede that now those things are racist or whatever.  It's annoying as hell.  I get that you don't care about the flag, but I'm a history guy.  I care.  I care about the teachings of Jesus.  These things are important to me and I'm not going to give them up easily.  It's that freakin' simple.  

Ledbetterman10

He doesn't seem pissed off at all as I re-read your guys' back-and-forth. 

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But you taking offense really isn't the issue, is it? That black Americans take offense is. I 100% support their perspective. I also don't particularly care for the idea of a shoe bearing a symbol that will appeal to white nationalists. It's actually pretty simple IMO. As for Nike... Obviously they would be a LOT more concerned about alienating black Americans - a massive portion of their shoe market - than they are white people who suddenly give a shit about a flag they never gave a shit about until today.

Me taking offense over what?  I'm not one to get offended at all.  If a white nationalist starts displaying the current flag, should we change the official flag (spoiler alert, they already do).  Should we change the name of our capital because Washington was a slave owner?  Should we change the name of the Roosevelt Bridge and pull him off the dime because he didn't do enough (or anything) to stop Jim Crow laws?  And how do you know what I gave a shit about until today?  That seems awfully presumptuous.  

Again, this is totally different than celebrating the confederacy and those statutes.  

You taking offense to the rejection of this obsolete flag. Okay, if you don't like the word offended, fill in whatever word you like, it doesn't matter to me. I think I've been pretty clear and simplistic is explaining where I'm coming from, so don't really have much more to say on the subject TBH.

It's not just about the flag.  It's all sorts of things that the left allows to be co-oped.  That's my point.  The left is weak and doesn't know how to fight on these important topics.  One of the things I like most about Mayor Pete is that he's fighting to take back what the teachings of Jesus are really about.  I love that about him.  I want more of that.  

I'm don't care about the left in this case. I'm going with what black Americans think about it, that's all. It actually has nothing to do with politics for me.

But I don't think the left is weak in this context either. I think that perspective is getting pretty cozy with gaslighting.

So I'm gaslighting people because I speak my beliefs.  Got it.  Makes perfect sense.  

Is Colin speaking for all black Americans?  Does he have that right because he's black?  If so, awesome.  I'd like to speak for all white Americans.  Then I can really gaslight the fuck out of people.  

I'm curious to know why you seem to be rather pissed off.

I already said why.. thrice.  I'm aggravated that we allow the right wingers to co-op important symbols and religion, and then we concede that now those things are racist or whatever.  It's annoying as hell.  I get that you don't care about the flag, but I'm a history guy.  I care.  I care about the teachings of Jesus.  These things are important to me and I'm not going to give them up easily.  It's that freakin' simple.  

(I'm a history gal, so that has nothing to do with it - being into history doesn't mean we have to "cherish" everything out of history. We can hate shit out of history too, and that is often the case for me when it comes to American history, since it's such an appalling history). So why don't you get mad at the alt-right who co-opted the symbols instead of the ones who are simply putting that into modern context because of the injustices they have experienced throughout American history? You are apparently mad at the left, and not the alt-right, who is who you should be mad at.

As for the religious thing... that has nothing to do with this IMO. Religion has always and will always have a huge number of crazy fucking fanatics who are a blight on society, and there have always been those who think this world would be far better off without religion at all, and that, if Jesus were real, he'd be rolling in his grave over ALL the organized religion. Nothing new there.

Meltdown99

I'd be pissed off if some American attacked the Canadian flag...

And it can be rightfully attacked.  But it serves no point.  

HughFreakingDillon

Obama's second inauguration.