Kaepernick

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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,319
    dignin said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  
    I know right. Why do people get so upset when a business makes a business decision that doesn't hurt anyone?
    other than their shareholders. cost of design, manufacture. shipping both to and FROM  each store....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    mickeyrat said:
    dignin said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  
    I know right. Why do people get so upset when a business makes a business decision that doesn't hurt anyone?
    other than their shareholders. cost of design, manufacture. shipping both to and FROM  each store....
    Remember how much the shareholders were hurt when Nike teamed up with Kaepernick?

    Let's not count our chickens before they've hatched.
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    mrussel1 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Jason P said:
    What is Kap going to do when he finds out the thirteen stripes in the current American flag represents the original colonies?    :o

    mind blown ...

    So, are you trying to say that there was no slavery in the original colonies? Because that would be incorrect. 
    The argument seems to be that the flag was ONLY or PRIMARILY associated with slavery.  That is a stretch by any means.  You could argue that the flag was anti-women's suffrage, anti-gay rights, anti-standing military and all sorts of other things.  To me, this is just another product of our "outrage" culture, where we seek to find things that separate us, rather than finding common ground.  Both sides...
    Where are you getting that that's the argument? Who said it was only or primarily associated with slavery? It is associated with slavery, plus a bunch of other things, but I'm not sure we need to ask Kaepernick to take on all of those causes, too. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,231
    oftenreading said:
    mrussel1 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Jason P said:
    What is Kap going to do when he finds out the thirteen stripes in the current American flag represents the original colonies?    :o

    mind blown ...

    So, are you trying to say that there was no slavery in the original colonies? Because that would be incorrect. 
    The argument seems to be that the flag was ONLY or PRIMARILY associated with slavery.  That is a stretch by any means.  You could argue that the flag was anti-women's suffrage, anti-gay rights, anti-standing military and all sorts of other things.  To me, this is just another product of our "outrage" culture, where we seek to find things that separate us, rather than finding common ground.  Both sides...
    Where are you getting that that's the argument? Who said it was only or primarily associated with slavery? It is associated with slavery, plus a bunch of other things, but I'm not sure we need to ask Kaepernick to take on all of those causes, too. 
    I have never  associated the original flag with slavery. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,002
    oftenreading said:
    mrussel1 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Jason P said:
    What is Kap going to do when he finds out the thirteen stripes in the current American flag represents the original colonies?    :o

    mind blown ...

    So, are you trying to say that there was no slavery in the original colonies? Because that would be incorrect. 
    The argument seems to be that the flag was ONLY or PRIMARILY associated with slavery.  That is a stretch by any means.  You could argue that the flag was anti-women's suffrage, anti-gay rights, anti-standing military and all sorts of other things.  To me, this is just another product of our "outrage" culture, where we seek to find things that separate us, rather than finding common ground.  Both sides...
    Where are you getting that that's the argument? Who said it was only or primarily associated with slavery? It is associated with slavery, plus a bunch of other things, but I'm not sure we need to ask Kaepernick to take on all of those causes, too. 
    Right here..  what do you think it's about?

    Sources told WSJ that Kaepernick reached out to Nike after photos emerged of the shoes, saying the design could be seen as offensive due to its association with an era of slavery. The flag first emerged in 1792 at a time when lawmakers advocated for the expansion of slavery and formally declared that those born into slavery were slaves for life.  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nike-reportedly-pulls-betsy-ross-flag-shoes-over-concerns-from-colin-kaepernick-reports-today-2019-07-01/
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    mrussel1 said:
    oftenreading said:
    mrussel1 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Jason P said:
    What is Kap going to do when he finds out the thirteen stripes in the current American flag represents the original colonies?    :o

    mind blown ...

    So, are you trying to say that there was no slavery in the original colonies? Because that would be incorrect. 
    The argument seems to be that the flag was ONLY or PRIMARILY associated with slavery.  That is a stretch by any means.  You could argue that the flag was anti-women's suffrage, anti-gay rights, anti-standing military and all sorts of other things.  To me, this is just another product of our "outrage" culture, where we seek to find things that separate us, rather than finding common ground.  Both sides...
    Where are you getting that that's the argument? Who said it was only or primarily associated with slavery? It is associated with slavery, plus a bunch of other things, but I'm not sure we need to ask Kaepernick to take on all of those causes, too. 
    Right here..  what do you think it's about?

    Sources told WSJ that Kaepernick reached out to Nike after photos emerged of the shoes, saying the design could be seen as offensive due to its association with an era of slavery. The flag first emerged in 1792 at a time when lawmakers advocated for the expansion of slavery and formally declared that those born into slavery were slaves for life.  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nike-reportedly-pulls-betsy-ross-flag-shoes-over-concerns-from-colin-kaepernick-reports-today-2019-07-01/

    Like I said, does Kaepernick have to protest everything for it to be a legitimate protest? It's about slavery for him; that doesn't make the argument invalid.

    I don't believe that black people need to give up protesting just to "get along", so that white people don't have to feel uncomfortable, just like I don't believe that First Nations people in Canada should give up protesting just because a bunch of white people keep saying it's "in the past" and "move on". 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,967
    Nike keeps hitting the headlines brilliantly. I wouldn't be surprised if they secretly had no intention of distributing these shoes, and this is all playing out exactly to plan, lol.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,002
    oftenreading said:
    mrussel1 said:
    oftenreading said:
    mrussel1 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Jason P said:
    What is Kap going to do when he finds out the thirteen stripes in the current American flag represents the original colonies?    :o

    mind blown ...

    So, are you trying to say that there was no slavery in the original colonies? Because that would be incorrect. 
    The argument seems to be that the flag was ONLY or PRIMARILY associated with slavery.  That is a stretch by any means.  You could argue that the flag was anti-women's suffrage, anti-gay rights, anti-standing military and all sorts of other things.  To me, this is just another product of our "outrage" culture, where we seek to find things that separate us, rather than finding common ground.  Both sides...
    Where are you getting that that's the argument? Who said it was only or primarily associated with slavery? It is associated with slavery, plus a bunch of other things, but I'm not sure we need to ask Kaepernick to take on all of those causes, too. 
    Right here..  what do you think it's about?

    Sources told WSJ that Kaepernick reached out to Nike after photos emerged of the shoes, saying the design could be seen as offensive due to its association with an era of slavery. The flag first emerged in 1792 at a time when lawmakers advocated for the expansion of slavery and formally declared that those born into slavery were slaves for life.  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nike-reportedly-pulls-betsy-ross-flag-shoes-over-concerns-from-colin-kaepernick-reports-today-2019-07-01/

    Like I said, does Kaepernick have to protest everything for it to be a legitimate protest? It's about slavery for him; that doesn't make the argument invalid.

    I don't believe that black people need to give up protesting just to "get along", so that white people don't have to feel uncomfortable, just like I don't believe that First Nations people in Canada should give up protesting just because a bunch of white people keep saying it's "in the past" and "move on". 
    the shoes were pulled due to the flag, generated by a phone call from Colin.  Ergo, this issue as generated in the media in the last few days was from Colin and the slavery era.  I don't know what general protests have to do with this specific issue.  
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,967
    edited July 2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  
    Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

    Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,419
    dignin said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  
    I know right. Why do people get so upset when a business makes a business decision that doesn't hurt anyone?
    I business decision that gets a good percentage of the country to argue with each other, creates more division and creates negativity over a holiday weekend in hopes that stock prices move a few percentage points.  No one is hurt yet, but wait until groups of people start chucking rocks and bricks at each other over this.  
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,002
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  
    Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

    Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.
    See, this is the problem.  It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page.  Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything.  It shows the weakness of the left.  Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag.  It's not their fucking flag.  Take the whole thing back.  
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,231
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  
    Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

    Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.
    White nationalists fly the 13 colonies at their rallies?
    i know our history and there is plenty of bad stuff but this seems like nonsense. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Jason P said:
    dignin said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  
    I know right. Why do people get so upset when a business makes a business decision that doesn't hurt anyone?
    I business decision that gets a good percentage of the country to argue with each other, creates more division and creates negativity over a holiday weekend in hopes that stock prices move a few percentage points.  No one is hurt yet, but wait until groups of people start chucking rocks and bricks at each other over this.  
    Discussing history is bad now eh? We wouldn't want to upset the racists now would we. 

    The worst divider in your nation happens to be your president and here you are in this thread worried about Colin and Nike for pulling a few shoes. 
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,967
    edited July 2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  
    Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

    Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.
    White nationalists fly the 13 colonies at their rallies?
    i know our history and there is plenty of bad stuff but this seems like nonsense. 
    Yes, they are known to do this, as is being widely reported in the news with this story. That is the whole point and why there is an issue. White nationalists LOVE the old days, before emancipation.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,967
    edited July 2019
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  
    Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

    Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.
    See, this is the problem.  It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page.  Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything.  It shows the weakness of the left.  Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag.  It's not their fucking flag.  Take the whole thing back.  
    I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,002
    PJ_Soul said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  
    Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

    Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.
    See, this is the problem.  It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page.  Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything.  It shows the weakness of the left.  Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag.  It's not their fucking flag.  Take the whole thing back.  
    I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.
    The Confederate flag and the original stars and stripes are NOT the same thing.  How can you even make that argument?  The only thing they have in common is that they're both over 100 years old.  The latter is symbol of secession, treason and a 'Cause' predicated on slavery.  The US was not founded on protecting the slave economy from England banning it.    

    The Union Jack has been around since the early 17th century, when England had all sorts of atrocities.  Are they trying to ban that flag?  It's stupid.  Sorry you as a Canadian don't understand why I, and American wants to keep white nationalists from co-oping the history of my country.  
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  
    Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

    Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.
    See, this is the problem.  It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page.  Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything.  It shows the weakness of the left.  Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag.  It's not their fucking flag.  Take the whole thing back.  
    I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.
    The Confederate flag and the original stars and stripes are NOT the same thing.  How can you even make that argument?  The only thing they have in common is that they're both over 100 years old.  The latter is symbol of secession, treason and a 'Cause' predicated on slavery.  The US was not founded on protecting the slave economy from England banning it.    

    The Union Jack has been around since the early 17th century, when England had all sorts of atrocities.  Are they trying to ban that flag?  It's stupid.  Sorry you as a Canadian don't understand why I, and American wants to keep white nationalists from co-oping the history of my country.  
    I absolutely understand why?  It represents sovereignty to me.  The same could be said about the Canadian flag...even though the flag did not come about until the '60s the racist government of the time kept sending 1st nation children to residential schools...you know ripping children away from their parents so they could off and be abused with the consent of the government. 

    The Canadian flag represents Canada's sovereignty...

    And many 1st nations people fly the flag on their homes on the reserves...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,967
    edited July 2019
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  
    Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

    Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.
    See, this is the problem.  It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page.  Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything.  It shows the weakness of the left.  Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag.  It's not their fucking flag.  Take the whole thing back.  
    I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.
    The Confederate flag and the original stars and stripes are NOT the same thing.  How can you even make that argument?  The only thing they have in common is that they're both over 100 years old.  The latter is symbol of secession, treason and a 'Cause' predicated on slavery.  The US was not founded on protecting the slave economy from England banning it.    

    The Union Jack has been around since the early 17th century, when England had all sorts of atrocities.  Are they trying to ban that flag?  It's stupid.  Sorry you as a Canadian don't understand why I, and American wants to keep white nationalists from co-oping the history of my country.  
    I didn't say they are the same thing. I was drawing a parallel. I'm sure that conversation about parallels has been had enough times, lol.
    I don't think this is about being Canadian, since lots and lots of Americans apparently agree with my view of this. I'm sorry you're upset that white nationalists have cooped a couple of your flags from the slave days, but that's just how it's panned out. Life isn't always fair. I'd personally rather side with the people who have suffered terrible injustices in a racist America and who are offended by symbols from the slave days that are used by hate groups than I would those who want to get bent out of shape because a flag they haven't given a second thought to a day in their lives isn't being promoted on a running shoe because it's offensive to black Americans.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,002
    PJ_Soul said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    This is crazy.  Now people are up in arms about the original Stars and Stripes?  
    Yeah, for some crazy reason they don't want the flag that is now sometimes flown at white nationalist rallies on their kicks. Go figure.

    Like it or not McGruff, America's has a pretty fucking shameful history, and the historical symbols currently embraced by racists aren't exactly appealing. I know you want to believe otherwise, but you can't fight facts.
    See, this is the problem.  It's the same thing that I was saying on the other page.  Stop letting the right wing coop the flag, religion, everything.  It shows the weakness of the left.  Who cares that some nationalists fly that flag.  It's not their fucking flag.  Take the whole thing back.  
    I do and a TON of other people do. Same with the confederate flag. What I want to know is why in the hell some of you are so protective of old ass flags that aren't relevant anymore except to white nationalists. It's such a stupid thing to get protective about. It's not like any of you care, until the use of them offend people because they are references to racism. What is that about?? I truly don't get it.
    The Confederate flag and the original stars and stripes are NOT the same thing.  How can you even make that argument?  The only thing they have in common is that they're both over 100 years old.  The latter is symbol of secession, treason and a 'Cause' predicated on slavery.  The US was not founded on protecting the slave economy from England banning it.    

    The Union Jack has been around since the early 17th century, when England had all sorts of atrocities.  Are they trying to ban that flag?  It's stupid.  Sorry you as a Canadian don't understand why I, and American wants to keep white nationalists from co-oping the history of my country.  
    I didn't say they are the same thing. I was drawing a parallel. I'm sure that conversation about parallels has been had enough times, lol.
    I don't think this is about being Canadian, since lots and lots of Americans apparently agree with my view of this. I'm sorry you're upset that white nationalists have cooped a couple of your flags from the slave days, but that's just how it's panned out. Life isn't always fair. I'd personally rather side with the people who have suffered terrible injustices in a racist America and who are offended by symbols from the slave days that are used by hate groups than I would those who want to get bent out of shape because a flag they haven't given a second thought to a day in their lives isn't being promoted on a running shoe because it's offensive to black Americans.
    I don't need make a choice and we don't have to roll over and say "shucks, I wish the white power people didn't win another one".  Instead, I want to take it back.  Fuck that and fuck them.  It isn't how "life panned out".  I love ya PJ, so don't take offense, but that attitude doesn't make a bit of sense to me.  I don't hate Jesus because the right wing uses him as a cudgel, and I don't take offense to any of our historical flags because some dumbass in a mask has tried to co-op it.  
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    Would not this be better flag for NIKE to bring to market?


    I SAW PEARL JAM

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