The all-purpose heavy duty Climate Chaos thread (sprinkled with hope).

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation. 

I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue.  I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming.  That's good logic and compassionate thinking. 

But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming.  I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent.  In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial. 

I think you may be looking at the issue too narrowly, brian. What if a major part of the solution could come from a young girl born in Mali, who currently has very low odds of getting any formal education at all? Why should we be missing out on the brain power of half the population?

I think you missed my point and I think focusing on one aspect of global warming is more the narrow looking.  I agree with what you said the first time, but I don't think the majority cause of global warming hinges on women's rights issues.  I really don't.

I'm not saying that they do, at all, but I’ll just leave it at that so as not to detail the thread. 

Cool, thanks.  I like what you and PJ_Soul wrote about the first go-round.  An important topic worthy of it's own thread.

Thanks, although it wasn't my goal to try and get anyone talking about women's rights here, like Meltdown apparently thought, hahaha (and I HAVE tried to start its own thread btw - it dropped off the first page very quickly, which proves my point pretty well. Nobody ever really wants to talk about that issue around here - I've said as much many times over the years). I simply meant it as another example of how people are the least reactive to the worst problems that affect the most people. It's because of a sense of ultimate hopelessness IMHO. Or denial. Or ignorance, i.e. they don't even understand the extent of the problem or its causes. I think those three sentiments about climate change are pretty widely felt. I'm personally one of the people with a massive sense of hopelessness about halting climate change. I think it's too late. We're past the tipping point (it's just that I'm still happy to talk about it, and do think we still have to do everything we can, since there is no other option). And when mass migrations start happening because of climate change, we can probably wave goodbye to the women's rights cause where it's most needed as well - such migrations will trigger truly terrible things.

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation. 

I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue.  I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming.  That's good logic and compassionate thinking. 

But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming.  I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent.  In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial. 

I think you may be looking at the issue too narrowly, brian. What if a major part of the solution could come from a young girl born in Mali, who currently has very low odds of getting any formal education at all? Why should we be missing out on the brain power of half the population?

I think you missed my point and I think focusing on one aspect of global warming is more the narrow looking.  I agree with what you said the first time, but I don't think the majority cause of global warming hinges on women's rights issues.  I really don't.

I'm not saying that they do, at all, but I’ll just leave it at that so as not to detail the thread. 

Cool, thanks.  I like what you and PJ_Soul wrote about the first go-round.  An important topic worthy of it's own thread.

Thanks, although it wasn't my goal to try and get anyone talking about women's rights here, like Meltdown apparently thought, hahaha (and I HAVE tried to start its own thread btw - it dropped off the first page very quickly, which proves my point pretty well. Nobody ever really wants to talk about that issue around here - I've said as much many times over the years). I simply meant it as another example of how people are the least reactive to the worst problems that affect the most people. It's because of a sense of ultimate hopelessness IMHO. Or denial. Or ignorance, i.e. they don't even understand the extent of the problem or its causes. I think those three sentiments about climate change are pretty widely felt. I'm personally one of the people with a massive sense of hopelessness about halting climate change. I think it's too late. We're past the tipping point (it's just that I'm still happy to talk about it, and do think we still have to do everything we can, since there is no other option). And when mass migrations start happening because of climate change, we can probably wave goodbye to the women's rights cause where it's most needed as well - such migrations will trigger truly terrible things.

Thanks for clarifying.  I honestly don't remember your women's justice thread (but I forget things in general more and more these days) so if you could bump it back up, I'd like to check it out.

I think you are right about being beyond the tipping point.  At the same time, I think it makes sense to lessen how much we add to the severity of the problem as much as possible.  I still think that is possible. 

Yes, there will likely be migrations to the far north and the far south.  Is that a frequent topic of discussion up your way?

PJ_Soul said:

We're talking about climate change migration here. People will move to northern countries because places farther south will be come unlivable or at least intolerable for many (some places already are). Too hot, too many fires, not enough water, eternal drought. So people will migrate to Canada, northern Europe. Or at least try to... The northwest won't be immune either. Southern Californians are already moving in greater rates to the northwest. That's the first step.

And people In Canada don't think they HAVE to move farther north. Some think they will want to (like me), because southern Canada will become less pleasant as the population rises because of this climate migration. But also, southern Canada is suffering the effects of climate change too. So many more and worse fires, more drought. It's predicted that Vancouver will have about the same climate at San Diego by 2050. And that would destroy the entire ecology of the region, making it a much less pleasant place to live than it is right now, and like a box of matches as well. Plus that's just too hot for some people (like for me!). Therefore, moving north, to cooler climates with more rain and cold winters, will make sense to a lot of Canadians who currently live closer to the border. The reason some are talking about this now is because they want to get ahead of it, and buy property that will be more in demand and more expensive 30 years from now.

I'm now rethinking though. I was considering moving north in BC, or to the Yukon. But now I'm thinking more about the the Maritimes instead. Newfoundland ... Although it's likely that hurricane weather will become more and more serious there with the climate change. We'll see.... I wouldn't start planning for this until after both my parents are dead, so hopefully it won't be for a long time!

San Diego is one of the most beautiful places in the us.  It has a climate that most would agree is simply perfect.  If Vancouver becomes the next San Diego, they’re lucky!! I wish I still lived in San Diego, greatest weather I’ve ever experienced!

PJ_Soul said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

PJ_Soul said:

We're talking about climate change migration here. People will move to northern countries because places farther south will be come unlivable or at least intolerable for many (some places already are). Too hot, too many fires, not enough water, eternal drought. So people will migrate to Canada, northern Europe. Or at least try to... The northwest won't be immune either. Southern Californians are already moving in greater rates to the northwest. That's the first step.

And people In Canada don't think they HAVE to move farther north. Some think they will want to (like me), because southern Canada will become less pleasant as the population rises because of this climate migration. But also, southern Canada is suffering the effects of climate change too. So many more and worse fires, more drought. It's predicted that Vancouver will have about the same climate at San Diego by 2050. And that would destroy the entire ecology of the region, making it a much less pleasant place to live than it is right now, and like a box of matches as well. Plus that's just too hot for some people (like for me!). Therefore, moving north, to cooler climates with more rain and cold winters, will make sense to a lot of Canadians who currently live closer to the border. The reason some are talking about this now is because they want to get ahead of it, and buy property that will be more in demand and more expensive 30 years from now.

I'm now rethinking though. I was considering moving north in BC, or to the Yukon. But now I'm thinking more about the the Maritimes instead. Newfoundland ... Although it's likely that hurricane weather will become more and more serious there with the climate change. We'll see.... I wouldn't start planning for this until after both my parents are dead, so hopefully it won't be for a long time!

San Diego is one of the most beautiful places in the us.  It had a climate that most would agree is simply perfect.  If Vancouver becomes the next San Diego, they’re lucky!! I wish I still lived in San Diego, greatest weather I’ve ever experienced!

I wouldn't be caught dead in a place that hot and with barely any seasons. I'd rather live in the North Pole than in San Diego, personally. But that isn't even the point. San Diego has nice weather for San Diego. The ecological environment there has adapted over thousands of years for that kind of climate. But when that climate comes very rapidly to a temperate rain forest like we have here, that is an absolute ecological disaster. All of our massive forests would all dry up and burn the entire damned province down, and the vast majority of our wildlife would die.... Surely you understand that.

Nah, I don’t think so.  You sound like one of those guys with a basement full of canned goods.  You a doomsday preppier?

PJ_Soul said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

PJ_Soul said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

PJ_Soul said:

We're talking about climate change migration here. People will move to northern countries because places farther south will be come unlivable or at least intolerable for many (some places already are). Too hot, too many fires, not enough water, eternal drought. So people will migrate to Canada, northern Europe. Or at least try to... The northwest won't be immune either. Southern Californians are already moving in greater rates to the northwest. That's the first step.

And people In Canada don't think they HAVE to move farther north. Some think they will want to (like me), because southern Canada will become less pleasant as the population rises because of this climate migration. But also, southern Canada is suffering the effects of climate change too. So many more and worse fires, more drought. It's predicted that Vancouver will have about the same climate at San Diego by 2050. And that would destroy the entire ecology of the region, making it a much less pleasant place to live than it is right now, and like a box of matches as well. Plus that's just too hot for some people (like for me!). Therefore, moving north, to cooler climates with more rain and cold winters, will make sense to a lot of Canadians who currently live closer to the border. The reason some are talking about this now is because they want to get ahead of it, and buy property that will be more in demand and more expensive 30 years from now.

I'm now rethinking though. I was considering moving north in BC, or to the Yukon. But now I'm thinking more about the the Maritimes instead. Newfoundland ... Although it's likely that hurricane weather will become more and more serious there with the climate change. We'll see.... I wouldn't start planning for this until after both my parents are dead, so hopefully it won't be for a long time!

San Diego is one of the most beautiful places in the us.  It had a climate that most would agree is simply perfect.  If Vancouver becomes the next San Diego, they’re lucky!! I wish I still lived in San Diego, greatest weather I’ve ever experienced!

I wouldn't be caught dead in a place that hot and with barely any seasons. I'd rather live in the North Pole than in San Diego, personally. But that isn't even the point. San Diego has nice weather for San Diego. The ecological environment there has adapted over thousands of years for that kind of climate. But when that climate comes very rapidly to a temperate rain forest like we have here, that is an absolute ecological disaster. All of our massive forests would all dry up and burn the entire damned province down, and the vast majority of our wildlife would die.... Surely you understand that.

Nah, I don’t think so.  You sound like one of those guys with a basement full of canned goods.  You a doomsday preppier?

I can't believe the level of your denial. Or maybe just your ignorance about how nature works.

But also, I'm not acting like the sky is falling. I am talking about realistically preparing to make my life as pleasant as possible as major climate changes start affecting the behaviour of populations, not about saving myself from doomsday.

Sounds like you’ve bought into the hysteria to me.  I’ll just go with the flow, and if it means the flow is a massive fire, I’m down with that.  No
use in worrying about something you can’t fix.

mcgruff10 said:

And why do people in Canada think they have to move north?

I live in one of the most southern regions of Canada often referred to as Florida of Canada, I can assure you that no none I know is planning on moving North due to climate...I am planning to move North as a personal preference.