The all-purpose heavy duty Climate Chaos thread (sprinkled with hope).

brianlux

I'm not asking to be bating, or to be right (I wish I were wrong about all this), or put anyone down.  I really don't get it.  Greta Thunberg asks this questions in this very direct, almost confrontational talk seen here:

https://www.ted.com/talks/greta_thunberg_the_disarming_case_to_act_right_now_on_climate?language=en

She and and others are asking the same question:  Why is it that Global Warming is not the number one topic in the news, on social media, in places like AMT?  We spend a lot of time talking about things that are important and immediate, but we don't spend as much time talking about the one thing that could very well put an end to the ability or need to discuss any of that other stuff.  The climate is changing due to our abuse of the planet and that could easily make our survival in the not too distant future very sketchy.  We are, after all, in the midst of the 6th Extinction- also known as the Holocene Extinction.  Are we suicidal, dumb, or just plain selfish and lazy?  Maybe all three? Why?

eddiec

brianlux said:

I'm not asking to be bating, or to be right (I wish I were wrong about all this), or put anyone down.  I really don't get it.  Greta Thunberg asks this questions in this very direct, almost confrontational talk seen here:

https://www.ted.com/talks/greta_thunberg_the_disarming_case_to_act_right_now_on_climate?language=en

She and and others are asking the same question:  Why is it that Global Warming is not the number one topic in the news, on social media, in places like AMT?  We spend a lot of time talking about things that are important and immediate, but we don't spend as much time talking about the one thing that could very well put an end to the ability or need to discuss any of that other stuff.  The climate is changing due to our abuse of the planet and that could easily make our survival in the not too distant future very sketchy.  We are, after all, in the midst of the 6th Extinction- also known as the Holocene Extinction.  Are we suicidal, dumb, or just plain selfish and lazy?  Maybe all three? Why?

I think it's like selling life insurance. It's hard to sell because people don't want to believe it will happen to them.

Most people can't see (or grasp) the effects climate change is having, and therefore it's not real, or won't happen in their lifetime- which feeds into the selfish narrative.

Also, politicization is a major setback in trying to tackle this issue. Look at Oregon yesterday. The Republicans in the state disappeared so a bill to address climate change couldn't be voted on.

I think the younger generations seem to grasp the importance of the issue. Our fate as a species may rest with them.

Edit: I just saw your initial question was why it isn't discussed here more often. I answered more generally. I'm not sure really. Perhaps because it doesn't dominate the headlines.

benjs

brianlux said:

I'm not asking to be bating, or to be right (I wish I were wrong about all this), or put anyone down.  I really don't get it.  Greta Thunberg asks this questions in this very direct, almost confrontational talk seen here:

https://www.ted.com/talks/greta_thunberg_the_disarming_case_to_act_right_now_on_climate?language=en

She and and others are asking the same question:  Why is it that Global Warming is not the number one topic in the news, on social media, in places like AMT?  We spend a lot of time talking about things that are important and immediate, but we don't spend as much time talking about the one thing that could very well put an end to the ability or need to discuss any of that other stuff.  The climate is changing due to our abuse of the planet and that could easily make our survival in the not too distant future very sketchy.  We are, after all, in the midst of the 6th Extinction- also known as the Holocene Extinction.  Are we suicidal, dumb, or just plain selfish and lazy?  Maybe all three? Why?

I debate with my brother on this all the time. I'll try to explain my opinion through an anecdote. 

For five years now, we've picked up the broken pieces of a horrible sales system upgrade in our organization and made the best of it. We tried everything, and we just couldn't get our shit together and work more effectively and deliver the changes so direly needed. We knew we wanted improvement, we had a vague concept of what was wrong, and we knew we had suffering that needed addressing.

Then we brought in a project coordinator. He helped us understand how to understand each others' needs (practicing empathy as a starting point), he helped us understand the relative importance of what needed to change (prioritizing), he laid out the steps required for change (planning), he brought us together to reinforce what the finish line would look like (helping us see a common goal), and he propelled and supported us as we pursued changes in our way of working (helping us mobilize). For the first time in five years, our team takes work on in two-week development cycles (called sprints), and going on 14 weeks straight now - our team accomplish nearly everything we set out to within our desired timeframes.

I really believe that the ingredients I listed above are necessary for any pursuit of change (and there are likely several more), and many of them seem absent in the public discourse (and certainly absent in the public leadership). What the movement needs to start (and again, every single thing I've said here is opinion) is an agreed-upon leader, because this leaderless approach isn't moving us forward fast enough.

catefrances

honestly brian, its because no one really sees it as affecting their lives(generally speaking). we are all comfortable in our first world lives, trapped on the capitalist wheel of consumption, driven by economic ideals that we think are of benefit to us but in reality are ultimately only good for those captains of industry who hold the chains tight in their grasp. our governments are useless  cause as we all know, they are so far up industry's buttholes they cant even smell the shit... they think what theyre smelling is roses...  plus they dont give a shit about the people.. which of course is what capitalism is all about. the eatth doesnt stand a chance. 

what dreams

The kinds of change required to mitigate this crisis would completely up-end our lives. Nobody is going to volunteer for that. 

Meltdown99

You need to start living like it was 1800.  Not too many people have the skills to live like that with all the modern conveniences in our society.

hedonist

It's AN important topic, but not THE most important one - for me, at least.

(bring on the townspeople with torches! )

brianlux

Thanks for good comments so for, everyone. 

I think one of the reasons global warming isn't talked about here more and is not considered to be the most important subject of all is perhaps because we don't think it will matter in our lifetimes.  I'm almost 68, so that's fairly likely for me.  Most of you are probably in your 40's or so, right?  So maybe you will be lucky (or you are banking on having that luck hold out).  But a lot of people here have kids and I honestly think anyone under the age of 30 will be facing some very, very difficult times in their lifetime.  I would think that would make a difference to older generations.  It does for me.  I have grand nieces and nephews who are going to have to deal with some very difficult issues in their lifetime. And the youngest kids are too young to do what is needed.  Are we going to abandon them to a horrible fate?

No, I don't live like it 1800 as Meltdown suggested (not a bad idea, by the way).  I've done what I think is the "greenest" thing a person can do which is to not reproduce.  Beyond that, I have cut back on travel, I never fly, I have as many no-drive days as I can, I buy few things that are new (there are nearly endless good used books, records, CDs, clothes etc. in this consumer first world I live in), I do all the energy reduction things we hear about, but all that said, I'm still a first world person.  I'm still a part of the problem.  And that's all the more reason I think we need to talk about this and encourage each other do do more to solve the problem by using and consuming less, conserve resources, use less energy, and advocate for the environment.

Spiritual_Chaos

Meltdown99 said:

You need to start living like it was 1800.  

Please.

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Thanks for good comments so for, everyone. 

I think one of the reasons global warming isn't talked about here more and is not considered to be the most important subject of all is perhaps because we don't think it will matter in our lifetimes.  I'm almost 68, so that's fairly likely for me.  Most of you are probably in your 40's or so, right?  So maybe you will be lucky (or you are banking on having that luck hold out).  But a lot of people here have kids and I honestly think anyone under the age of 30 will be facing some very, very difficult times in their lifetime.  I would think that would make a difference to older generations.  It does for me.  I have grand nieces and nephews who are going to have to deal with some very difficult issues in their lifetime. And the youngest kids are too young to do what is needed.  Are we going to abandon them to a horrible fate?

No, I don't live like it 1800 as Meltdown suggested (not a bad idea, by the way).  I've done what I think is the "greenest" thing a person can do which is to not reproduce.  Beyond that, I have cut back on travel, I never fly, I have as many no-drive days as I can, I buy few things that are new (there are nearly endless good used books, records, CDs, clothes etc. in this consumer first world I live in), I do all the energy reduction things we hear about, but all that said, I'm still a first world person.  I'm still a part of the problem.  And that's all the more reason I think we need to talk about this and encourage each other do do more to solve the problem by using and consuming less, conserve resources, use less energy, and advocate for the environment.

Brian, I do not expect people to live like 1800...mind you that would be a great way to reduce populations...but that is what it will take to save the earth, as far I am concerned.  I will be long gone by the turn of the next century...internal combustion engines car will still be on the road and people will still be heating with natural gas...and plastics will still be dumped into the Oceans...

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Thanks for good comments so for, everyone. 

I think one of the reasons global warming isn't talked about here more and is not considered to be the most important subject of all is perhaps because we don't think it will matter in our lifetimes.  I'm almost 68, so that's fairly likely for me.  Most of you are probably in your 40's or so, right?  So maybe you will be lucky (or you are banking on having that luck hold out).  But a lot of people here have kids and I honestly think anyone under the age of 30 will be facing some very, very difficult times in their lifetime.  I would think that would make a difference to older generations.  It does for me.  I have grand nieces and nephews who are going to have to deal with some very difficult issues in their lifetime. And the youngest kids are too young to do what is needed.  Are we going to abandon them to a horrible fate?

No, I don't live like it 1800 as Meltdown suggested (not a bad idea, by the way).  I've done what I think is the "greenest" thing a person can do which is to not reproduce.  Beyond that, I have cut back on travel, I never fly, I have as many no-drive days as I can, I buy few things that are new (there are nearly endless good used books, records, CDs, clothes etc. in this consumer first world I live in), I do all the energy reduction things we hear about, but all that said, I'm still a first world person.  I'm still a part of the problem.  And that's all the more reason I think we need to talk about this and encourage each other do do more to solve the problem by using and consuming less, conserve resources, use less energy, and advocate for the environment.

Brian, I do not expect people to live like 1800...mind you that would be a great way to reduce populations...but that is what it will take to save the earth, as far I am concerned.  I will be long gone by the turn of the next century...internal combustion engines car will still be on the road and people will still be heating with natural gas...and plastics will still be dumped into the Oceans...

Perhaps, only I think it will be horses driving the cars:

Meltdown99

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Meltdown99 said:

You need to start living like it was 1800.  

Please.

It probably a safe assumption that you could not live as they did in 1800...

PJ_Soul

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

Meltdown99

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

Then start a thread, why hi-jack this one?

oftenreading

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation. 

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation. 

I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue.  I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming.  That's good logic and compassionate thinking. 

But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming.  I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent.  In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial. 

oftenreading

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation. 

I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue.  I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming.  That's good logic and compassionate thinking. 

But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming.  I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent.  In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial. 

I think you may be looking at the issue too narrowly, brian. What if a major part of the solution could come from a young girl born in Mali, who currently has very low odds of getting any formal education at all? Why should we be missing out on the brain power of half the population?

brianlux

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation. 

I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue.  I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming.  That's good logic and compassionate thinking. 

But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming.  I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent.  In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial. 

I think you may be looking at the issue too narrowly, brian. What if a major part of the solution could come from a young girl born in Mali, who currently has very low odds of getting any formal education at all? Why should we be missing out on the brain power of half the population?

I think you missed my point and I think focusing on one aspect of global warming is more the narrow looking.  I agree with what you said the first time, but I don't think the majority cause of global warming hinges on women's rights issues.  I really don't.

oftenreading

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation. 

I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue.  I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming.  That's good logic and compassionate thinking. 

But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming.  I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent.  In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial. 

I think you may be looking at the issue too narrowly, brian. What if a major part of the solution could come from a young girl born in Mali, who currently has very low odds of getting any formal education at all? Why should we be missing out on the brain power of half the population?

I think you missed my point and I think focusing on one aspect of global warming is more the narrow looking.  I agree with what you said the first time, but I don't think the majority cause of global warming hinges on women's rights issues.  I really don't.

I'm not saying that they do, at all, but I’ll just leave it at that so as not to detail the thread. 

dignin

Because it's a total bummer.

brianlux

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation. 

I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue.  I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming.  That's good logic and compassionate thinking. 

But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming.  I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent.  In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial. 

I think you may be looking at the issue too narrowly, brian. What if a major part of the solution could come from a young girl born in Mali, who currently has very low odds of getting any formal education at all? Why should we be missing out on the brain power of half the population?

I think you missed my point and I think focusing on one aspect of global warming is more the narrow looking.  I agree with what you said the first time, but I don't think the majority cause of global warming hinges on women's rights issues.  I really don't.

I'm not saying that they do, at all, but I’ll just leave it at that so as not to detail the thread. 

Cool, thanks.  I like what you and PJ_Soul wrote about the first go-round.  An important topic worthy of it's own thread.

brianlux

dignin said:

Because it's a total bummer.

Not total yet, but a major bummer, for sure.  Of course logic says that ignoring it will only make it a bigger bummer.  We can keep being deer caught in the headlights or we can act to at least slow the oncoming issue before it totally flattens us.  That is still doable.  Barely, but still doable.  It takes the will to act.

brianlux

Just to make the obvious clear as a bell:

GLOBAL WARMING IS NOT A PARTISAN ISSUE.  Don't be fooled into thinking it is.

cincybearcat

For an american:
1) because people are dying today due to guns
2) Because trump is fat, had weird hair and it needs to be pointed out frequently
3) because it's a fan forum of a rock band

brianlux

cincybearcat said:

For an american:
1) because people are dying today due to guns
2) Because trump is fat, had weird hair and it needs to be pointed out frequently
3) because it's a fan forum of a rock band

LOL, that does tend to get over-looked.

Ledbetterman10

Climate change should have never been politicized by the GOP. They've turned into a liberal talking-point when it isn't at all. 

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation. 

I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue.  I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming.  That's good logic and compassionate thinking. 

But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming.  I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent.  In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial. 

I think you may be looking at the issue too narrowly, brian. What if a major part of the solution could come from a young girl born in Mali, who currently has very low odds of getting any formal education at all? Why should we be missing out on the brain power of half the population?

I think you missed my point and I think focusing on one aspect of global warming is more the narrow looking.  I agree with what you said the first time, but I don't think the majority cause of global warming hinges on women's rights issues.  I really don't.

I'm not saying that they do, at all, but I’ll just leave it at that so as not to detail the thread. 

Cool, thanks.  I like what you and PJ_Soul wrote about the first go-round.  An important topic worthy of it's own thread.

Thanks, although it wasn't my goal to try and get anyone talking about women's rights here, like Meltdown apparently thought, hahaha (and I HAVE tried to start its own thread btw - it dropped off the first page very quickly, which proves my point pretty well. Nobody ever really wants to talk about that issue around here - I've said as much many times over the years). I simply meant it as another example of how people are the least reactive to the worst problems that affect the most people. It's because of a sense of ultimate hopelessness IMHO. Or denial. Or ignorance, i.e. they don't even understand the extent of the problem or its causes. I think those three sentiments about climate change are pretty widely felt. I'm personally one of the people with a massive sense of hopelessness about halting climate change. I think it's too late. We're past the tipping point (it's just that I'm still happy to talk about it, and do think we still have to do everything we can, since there is no other option). And when mass migrations start happening because of climate change, we can probably wave goodbye to the women's rights cause where it's most needed as well - such migrations will trigger truly terrible things.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation. 

I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue.  I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming.  That's good logic and compassionate thinking. 

But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming.  I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent.  In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial. 

I think you may be looking at the issue too narrowly, brian. What if a major part of the solution could come from a young girl born in Mali, who currently has very low odds of getting any formal education at all? Why should we be missing out on the brain power of half the population?

I think you missed my point and I think focusing on one aspect of global warming is more the narrow looking.  I agree with what you said the first time, but I don't think the majority cause of global warming hinges on women's rights issues.  I really don't.

I'm not saying that they do, at all, but I’ll just leave it at that so as not to detail the thread. 

Cool, thanks.  I like what you and PJ_Soul wrote about the first go-round.  An important topic worthy of it's own thread.

Thanks, although it wasn't my goal to try and get anyone talking about women's rights here, like Meltdown apparently thought, hahaha (and I HAVE tried to start its own thread btw - it dropped off the first page very quickly, which proves my point pretty well. Nobody ever really wants to talk about that issue around here - I've said as much many times over the years). I simply meant it as another example of how people are the least reactive to the worst problems that affect the most people. It's because of a sense of ultimate hopelessness IMHO. Or denial. Or ignorance, i.e. they don't even understand the extent of the problem or its causes. I think those three sentiments about climate change are pretty widely felt. I'm personally one of the people with a massive sense of hopelessness about halting climate change. I think it's too late. We're past the tipping point (it's just that I'm still happy to talk about it, and do think we still have to do everything we can, since there is no other option). And when mass migrations start happening because of climate change, we can probably wave goodbye to the women's rights cause where it's most needed as well - such migrations will trigger truly terrible things.

Thanks for clarifying.  I honestly don't remember your women's justice thread (but I forget things in general more and more these days) so if you could bump it back up, I'd like to check it out.

I think you are right about being beyond the tipping point.  At the same time, I think it makes sense to lessen how much we add to the severity of the problem as much as possible.  I still think that is possible. 

Yes, there will likely be migrations to the far north and the far south.  Is that a frequent topic of discussion up your way?

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.

I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.

Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation. 

I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue.  I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming.  That's good logic and compassionate thinking. 

But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming.  I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent.  In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial. 

I think you may be looking at the issue too narrowly, brian. What if a major part of the solution could come from a young girl born in Mali, who currently has very low odds of getting any formal education at all? Why should we be missing out on the brain power of half the population?

I think you missed my point and I think focusing on one aspect of global warming is more the narrow looking.  I agree with what you said the first time, but I don't think the majority cause of global warming hinges on women's rights issues.  I really don't.

I'm not saying that they do, at all, but I’ll just leave it at that so as not to detail the thread. 

Cool, thanks.  I like what you and PJ_Soul wrote about the first go-round.  An important topic worthy of it's own thread.

Thanks, although it wasn't my goal to try and get anyone talking about women's rights here, like Meltdown apparently thought, hahaha (and I HAVE tried to start its own thread btw - it dropped off the first page very quickly, which proves my point pretty well. Nobody ever really wants to talk about that issue around here - I've said as much many times over the years). I simply meant it as another example of how people are the least reactive to the worst problems that affect the most people. It's because of a sense of ultimate hopelessness IMHO. Or denial. Or ignorance, i.e. they don't even understand the extent of the problem or its causes. I think those three sentiments about climate change are pretty widely felt. I'm personally one of the people with a massive sense of hopelessness about halting climate change. I think it's too late. We're past the tipping point (it's just that I'm still happy to talk about it, and do think we still have to do everything we can, since there is no other option). And when mass migrations start happening because of climate change, we can probably wave goodbye to the women's rights cause where it's most needed as well - such migrations will trigger truly terrible things.

Thanks for clarifying.  I honestly don't remember your women's justice thread (but I forget things in general more and more these days) so if you could bump it back up, I'd like to check it out.

I think you are right about being beyond the tipping point.  At the same time, I think it makes sense to lessen how much we add to the severity of the problem as much as possible.  I still think that is possible. 

Yes, there will likely be migrations to the far north and the far south.  Is that a frequent topic of discussion up your way?

I have no idea where the thread is Brian - it's gotta be from years ago, not months. But I also do bring it up in other threads... crickets.

Up here people are definitely talking about climate change migration, because Canada is going to be where millions upon millions of them are going to migrate. So yeah, we're conscious of it. Some of us, myself included, are already thinking about buying property farther north in preparation (I think I've talked to you about how I'm considering this before). Right now that property is still cheap, but it won't be forever because of climate migration, and I'm talking about within my lifetime. I think we expect most of the migrants to be Indian, Middle Eastern, and American.

RoleModelsinBlood31

Hy forgive my ignorance, but why would people migrate to Canada? I’m not at all taking a jab at Canada, I seriously don’t understand.

mcgruff10

And why do people in Canada think they have to move north?