The all-purpose heavy duty Climate Chaos thread (sprinkled with hope).
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
I'm not asking to be bating, or to be right (I wish I were wrong about all this), or put anyone down. I really don't get it. Greta Thunberg asks this questions in this very direct, almost confrontational talk seen here:
She and and others are asking the same question: Why is it that Global Warming is not the number one topic in the news, on social media, in places like AMT? We spend a lot of time talking about things that are important and immediate, but we don't spend as much time talking about the one thing that could very well put an end to the ability or need to discuss any of that other stuff. The climate is changing due to our abuse of the planet and that could easily make our survival in the not too distant future very sketchy. We are, after all, in the midst of the 6th Extinction- also known as the Holocene Extinction. Are we suicidal, dumb, or just plain selfish and lazy? Maybe all three? Why?
"It's a sad and beautiful world"
-Roberto Benigni
Post edited by brianlux on
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Comments
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brianlux said:I'm not asking to be bating, or to be right (I wish I were wrong about all this), or put anyone down. I really don't get it. Greta Thunberg asks this questions in this very direct, almost confrontational talk seen here:She and and others are asking the same question: Why is it that Global Warming is not the number one topic in the news, on social media, in places like AMT? We spend a lot of time talking about things that are important and immediate, but we don't spend as much time talking about the one thing that could very well put an end to the ability or need to discuss any of that other stuff. The climate is changing due to our abuse of the planet and that could easily make our survival in the not too distant future very sketchy. We are, after all, in the midst of the 6th Extinction- also known as the Holocene Extinction. Are we suicidal, dumb, or just plain selfish and lazy? Maybe all three? Why?I think it's like selling life insurance. It's hard to sell because people don't want to believe it will happen to them.Most people can't see (or grasp) the effects climate change is having, and therefore it's not real, or won't happen in their lifetime- which feeds into the selfish narrative.Also, politicization is a major setback in trying to tackle this issue. Look at Oregon yesterday. The Republicans in the state disappeared so a bill to address climate change couldn't be voted on.I think the younger generations seem to grasp the importance of the issue. Our fate as a species may rest with them.Edit: I just saw your initial question was why it isn't discussed here more often. I answered more generally. I'm not sure really. Perhaps because it doesn't dominate the headlines.Post edited by eddiec on0
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I debate with my brother on this all the time. I'll try to explain my opinion through an anecdote.brianlux said:I'm not asking to be bating, or to be right (I wish I were wrong about all this), or put anyone down. I really don't get it. Greta Thunberg asks this questions in this very direct, almost confrontational talk seen here:She and and others are asking the same question: Why is it that Global Warming is not the number one topic in the news, on social media, in places like AMT? We spend a lot of time talking about things that are important and immediate, but we don't spend as much time talking about the one thing that could very well put an end to the ability or need to discuss any of that other stuff. The climate is changing due to our abuse of the planet and that could easily make our survival in the not too distant future very sketchy. We are, after all, in the midst of the 6th Extinction- also known as the Holocene Extinction. Are we suicidal, dumb, or just plain selfish and lazy? Maybe all three? Why?
For five years now, we've picked up the broken pieces of a horrible sales system upgrade in our organization and made the best of it. We tried everything, and we just couldn't get our shit together and work more effectively and deliver the changes so direly needed. We knew we wanted improvement, we had a vague concept of what was wrong, and we knew we had suffering that needed addressing.
Then we brought in a project coordinator. He helped us understand how to understand each others' needs (practicing empathy as a starting point), he helped us understand the relative importance of what needed to change (prioritizing), he laid out the steps required for change (planning), he brought us together to reinforce what the finish line would look like (helping us see a common goal), and he propelled and supported us as we pursued changes in our way of working (helping us mobilize). For the first time in five years, our team takes work on in two-week development cycles (called sprints), and going on 14 weeks straight now - our team accomplish nearly everything we set out to within our desired timeframes.
I really believe that the ingredients I listed above are necessary for any pursuit of change (and there are likely several more), and many of them seem absent in the public discourse (and certainly absent in the public leadership). What the movement needs to start (and again, every single thing I've said here is opinion) is an agreed-upon leader, because this leaderless approach isn't moving us forward fast enough.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
honestly brian, its because no one really sees it as affecting their lives(generally speaking). we are all comfortable in our first world lives, trapped on the capitalist wheel of consumption, driven by economic ideals that we think are of benefit to us but in reality are ultimately only good for those captains of industry who hold the chains tight in their grasp. our governments are useless cause as we all know, they are so far up industry's buttholes they cant even smell the shit... they think what theyre smelling is roses... plus they dont give a shit about the people.. which of course is what capitalism is all about. the eatth doesnt stand a chance.hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say0 -
The kinds of change required to mitigate this crisis would completely up-end our lives. Nobody is going to volunteer for that.0
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You need to start living like it was 1800. Not too many people have the skills to live like that with all the modern conveniences in our society.Give Peas A Chance…0
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It's AN important topic, but not THE most important one - for me, at least.
(bring on the townspeople with torches!
) 0 -
Thanks for good comments so for, everyone.I think one of the reasons global warming isn't talked about here more and is not considered to be the most important subject of all is perhaps because we don't think it will matter in our lifetimes. I'm almost 68, so that's fairly likely for me. Most of you are probably in your 40's or so, right? So maybe you will be lucky (or you are banking on having that luck hold out). But a lot of people here have kids and I honestly think anyone under the age of 30 will be facing some very, very difficult times in their lifetime. I would think that would make a difference to older generations. It does for me. I have grand nieces and nephews who are going to have to deal with some very difficult issues in their lifetime. And the youngest kids are too young to do what is needed. Are we going to abandon them to a horrible fate?No, I don't live like it 1800 as Meltdown suggested (not a bad idea, by the way). I've done what I think is the "greenest" thing a person can do which is to not reproduce. Beyond that, I have cut back on travel, I never fly, I have as many no-drive days as I can, I buy few things that are new (there are nearly endless good used books, records, CDs, clothes etc. in this consumer first world I live in), I do all the energy reduction things we hear about, but all that said, I'm still a first world person. I'm still a part of the problem. And that's all the more reason I think we need to talk about this and encourage each other do do more to solve the problem by using and consuming less, conserve resources, use less energy, and advocate for the environment."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0
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Please.Meltdown99 said:You need to start living like it was 1800."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Brian, I do not expect people to live like 1800...mind you that would be a great way to reduce populations...but that is what it will take to save the earth, as far I am concerned. I will be long gone by the turn of the next century...internal combustion engines car will still be on the road and people will still be heating with natural gas...and plastics will still be dumped into the Oceans...brianlux said:Thanks for good comments so for, everyone.I think one of the reasons global warming isn't talked about here more and is not considered to be the most important subject of all is perhaps because we don't think it will matter in our lifetimes. I'm almost 68, so that's fairly likely for me. Most of you are probably in your 40's or so, right? So maybe you will be lucky (or you are banking on having that luck hold out). But a lot of people here have kids and I honestly think anyone under the age of 30 will be facing some very, very difficult times in their lifetime. I would think that would make a difference to older generations. It does for me. I have grand nieces and nephews who are going to have to deal with some very difficult issues in their lifetime. And the youngest kids are too young to do what is needed. Are we going to abandon them to a horrible fate?No, I don't live like it 1800 as Meltdown suggested (not a bad idea, by the way). I've done what I think is the "greenest" thing a person can do which is to not reproduce. Beyond that, I have cut back on travel, I never fly, I have as many no-drive days as I can, I buy few things that are new (there are nearly endless good used books, records, CDs, clothes etc. in this consumer first world I live in), I do all the energy reduction things we hear about, but all that said, I'm still a first world person. I'm still a part of the problem. And that's all the more reason I think we need to talk about this and encourage each other do do more to solve the problem by using and consuming less, conserve resources, use less energy, and advocate for the environment.Give Peas A Chance…0 -
Meltdown99 said:
Brian, I do not expect people to live like 1800...mind you that would be a great way to reduce populations...but that is what it will take to save the earth, as far I am concerned. I will be long gone by the turn of the next century...internal combustion engines car will still be on the road and people will still be heating with natural gas...and plastics will still be dumped into the Oceans...brianlux said:Thanks for good comments so for, everyone.I think one of the reasons global warming isn't talked about here more and is not considered to be the most important subject of all is perhaps because we don't think it will matter in our lifetimes. I'm almost 68, so that's fairly likely for me. Most of you are probably in your 40's or so, right? So maybe you will be lucky (or you are banking on having that luck hold out). But a lot of people here have kids and I honestly think anyone under the age of 30 will be facing some very, very difficult times in their lifetime. I would think that would make a difference to older generations. It does for me. I have grand nieces and nephews who are going to have to deal with some very difficult issues in their lifetime. And the youngest kids are too young to do what is needed. Are we going to abandon them to a horrible fate?No, I don't live like it 1800 as Meltdown suggested (not a bad idea, by the way). I've done what I think is the "greenest" thing a person can do which is to not reproduce. Beyond that, I have cut back on travel, I never fly, I have as many no-drive days as I can, I buy few things that are new (there are nearly endless good used books, records, CDs, clothes etc. in this consumer first world I live in), I do all the energy reduction things we hear about, but all that said, I'm still a first world person. I'm still a part of the problem. And that's all the more reason I think we need to talk about this and encourage each other do do more to solve the problem by using and consuming less, conserve resources, use less energy, and advocate for the environment.Perhaps, only I think it will be horses driving the cars:
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
It probably a safe assumption that you could not live as they did in 1800...Spiritual_Chaos said:
Please.Meltdown99 said:You need to start living like it was 1800.Give Peas A Chance…0 -
It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0
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Then start a thread, why hi-jack this one?PJ_Soul said:It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.Give Peas A Chance…0 -
PJ_Soul said:It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.
Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
PJ_Soul said:It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.oftenreading said:PJ_Soul said:It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.
Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation.I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue. I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming. That's good logic and compassionate thinking.But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent. In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I think you may be looking at the issue too narrowly, brian. What if a major part of the solution could come from a young girl born in Mali, who currently has very low odds of getting any formal education at all? Why should we be missing out on the brain power of half the population?brianlux said:PJ_Soul said:It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.oftenreading said:PJ_Soul said:It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.
Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation.I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue. I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming. That's good logic and compassionate thinking.But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent. In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
I think you missed my point and I think focusing on one aspect of global warming is more the narrow looking. I agree with what you said the first time, but I don't think the majority cause of global warming hinges on women's rights issues. I really don't.oftenreading said:
I think you may be looking at the issue too narrowly, brian. What if a major part of the solution could come from a young girl born in Mali, who currently has very low odds of getting any formal education at all? Why should we be missing out on the brain power of half the population?brianlux said:PJ_Soul said:It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.oftenreading said:PJ_Soul said:It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.
Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation.I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue. I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming. That's good logic and compassionate thinking.But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent. In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
brianlux said:
I think you missed my point and I think focusing on one aspect of global warming is more the narrow looking. I agree with what you said the first time, but I don't think the majority cause of global warming hinges on women's rights issues. I really don't.oftenreading said:
I think you may be looking at the issue too narrowly, brian. What if a major part of the solution could come from a young girl born in Mali, who currently has very low odds of getting any formal education at all? Why should we be missing out on the brain power of half the population?brianlux said:PJ_Soul said:It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.oftenreading said:PJ_Soul said:It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.
Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation.I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue. I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming. That's good logic and compassionate thinking.But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent. In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial.
I'm not saying that they do, at all, but I’ll just leave it at that so as not to detail the thread.Post edited by oftenreading onmy small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
Because it's a total bummer.0
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Cool, thanks. I like what you and PJ_Soul wrote about the first go-round. An important topic worthy of it's own thread.oftenreading said:brianlux said:
I think you missed my point and I think focusing on one aspect of global warming is more the narrow looking. I agree with what you said the first time, but I don't think the majority cause of global warming hinges on women's rights issues. I really don't.oftenreading said:
I think you may be looking at the issue too narrowly, brian. What if a major part of the solution could come from a young girl born in Mali, who currently has very low odds of getting any formal education at all? Why should we be missing out on the brain power of half the population?brianlux said:PJ_Soul said:It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.oftenreading said:PJ_Soul said:It'a very very very important.... I would like to ask the same question but for global women's rights, which is the biggest human rights crisis on the face of the planet.I think people like to essentially ignore the most serious issues, because those are the ones that are too hard to fix.
Yes, that's an excellent example of another situation that seems so large and difficult to tackle that we don't talk about it enough, but not only that, it's directly relevant to climate change. When women have full human rights, one of the rights they take up with gusto is education, and when women are educated, they tend to make the choice to limit family size, and often advocate for options that are less destructive to the environment, such as alternate cooking fuel sources rather than burning all available plant matter, which leads to deforestation and environmental degradation.I very much agree with you both- women's rights globally is a huge issue. I like what you said, oftenreading about how improving women's rights and education would help ease global warming. That's good logic and compassionate thinking.But as I've said a number of times, if the world becomes unfit for human habitation ( a very real possibility), there will be no human rights issues, and as much as improving women's rights is highly important (it is), that issue is not the main driving force of anthropogenic global warming. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of the global women's rights issue, but in prioritizing big issues, I would still argue that global warming and environmental degradation are the most urgent. In the triage situation in which we find ourselves, in terms of what will affect the viability of human life as a whole, I believe environment is the most urgent and crucial.
I'm not saying that they do, at all, but I’ll just leave it at that so as not to detail the thread.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0
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