Donald Trump

PJ_Soul · May 2019

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

dignin said:

Trump Administration to LGBT Couples: Your ‘Out of Wedlock’ Kids Aren’t Citizens
Children of U.S. citizens are falling victim to a policy that de-recognizes their parents’ marriage—and strips them of their birthright citizenship.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/state-department-to-lgbt-married-couples-your-out-of-wedlock-kids-arent-citizens

complete insanity

My president would never do such a thing. Anyone still doubting the nazi/fascist comparisons? Hey, but Team Trump Treason is okay with Pete’s husband being up on stage with him so it all works out. Even Steven.

Who are you even talking to? You know I think those comparisons are fair, and that nearly everyone else here does to. This goes back to me comparing you to a talking-head in the other thread. You're preaching to people that don't even disagree.

Wow, is that ever not true. I have been absolutely raked through the coals on here multiple times for making those kinds of comparisons. The vast majority of the posters in here think that drawing those kinds of parallels are complete insanity, and that they are "a part of the problem", lol ... Of course, I think that thinking those comparisons are insane is the real insanity, lol.

Ledbetterman10 · May 2019

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

dignin said:

Trump Administration to LGBT Couples: Your ‘Out of Wedlock’ Kids Aren’t Citizens
Children of U.S. citizens are falling victim to a policy that de-recognizes their parents’ marriage—and strips them of their birthright citizenship.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/state-department-to-lgbt-married-couples-your-out-of-wedlock-kids-arent-citizens

complete insanity

My president would never do such a thing. Anyone still doubting the nazi/fascist comparisons? Hey, but Team Trump Treason is okay with Pete’s husband being up on stage with him so it all works out. Even Steven.

Who are you even talking to? You know I think those comparisons are fair, and that nearly everyone else here does to. This goes back to me comparing you to a talking-head in the other thread. You're preaching to people that don't even disagree.

Wow, is that ever not true. I have been absolutely raked through the coals on here multiple times for making those kinds of comparisons. The vast majority of the posters in here think that drawing those kinds of parallels are complete insanity, and that they are "a part of the problem", lol ... Of course, I think that thinking those comparisons are insane is the real insanity, lol.

You don't have the context of Halifax carrying over a back-and-forth we were having in one of the other Trump threads to this one so I'll gloss over that.

Now have you been raked over through the coals for comparing Trump and Trumpism to Hitler and Nazism? Because that seems like a reasonable comparison. Though I don't completely agree, it's fair. Or....do you compare people that voted for Trump to Nazis? Because that's completely different and is, to a degree, part of a problem.

PJ_Soul · May 2019

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

dignin said:

Trump Administration to LGBT Couples: Your ‘Out of Wedlock’ Kids Aren’t Citizens
Children of U.S. citizens are falling victim to a policy that de-recognizes their parents’ marriage—and strips them of their birthright citizenship.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/state-department-to-lgbt-married-couples-your-out-of-wedlock-kids-arent-citizens

complete insanity

My president would never do such a thing. Anyone still doubting the nazi/fascist comparisons? Hey, but Team Trump Treason is okay with Pete’s husband being up on stage with him so it all works out. Even Steven.

Who are you even talking to? You know I think those comparisons are fair, and that nearly everyone else here does to. This goes back to me comparing you to a talking-head in the other thread. You're preaching to people that don't even disagree.

Wow, is that ever not true. I have been absolutely raked through the coals on here multiple times for making those kinds of comparisons. The vast majority of the posters in here think that drawing those kinds of parallels are complete insanity, and that they are "a part of the problem", lol ... Of course, I think that thinking those comparisons are insane is the real insanity, lol.

You don't have the context of Halifax carrying over a back-and-forth we were having in one of the other Trump threads to this one so I'll gloss over that.

Now have you been raked over through the coals for comparing Trump and Trumpism to Hitler and Nazism? Because that seems like a reasonable comparison. Though I don't completely agree, it's fair. Or....do you compare people that voted for Trump to Nazis? Because that's completely different and is, to a degree, part of a problem.

I have been complete lambasted repeatedly for specifically saying that there are some parallels between Trump and his admin and their political tactics and the rise of Nazism/fascism, and I have very clearly explained how, and have even posted many articles trying to explain why that's an apt parallel to be drawn, while of course making it clear that I didn't mean that Trump and Hitler are actually the same (they said they understood that, but didn't act like it!). I've literally been treated like I'm a fucking idiot for suggesting such a thing, over and over, for the past 2 years. So yes, I agree with you - it's a very, very fair and apt comparison. But I think people just have a knee-jerk emotional reaction to the comparison ... which is fucking dangerous as hell IMO. They are the ones that the line about how we have to remember to keep from making the same mistakes is for... and they reject it anyhow.

The Juggler · May 2019

Please stop lambasting PJ_Soul.

Ledbetterman10 · May 2019

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

dignin said:

Trump Administration to LGBT Couples: Your ‘Out of Wedlock’ Kids Aren’t Citizens
Children of U.S. citizens are falling victim to a policy that de-recognizes their parents’ marriage—and strips them of their birthright citizenship.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/state-department-to-lgbt-married-couples-your-out-of-wedlock-kids-arent-citizens

complete insanity

My president would never do such a thing. Anyone still doubting the nazi/fascist comparisons? Hey, but Team Trump Treason is okay with Pete’s husband being up on stage with him so it all works out. Even Steven.

Who are you even talking to? You know I think those comparisons are fair, and that nearly everyone else here does to. This goes back to me comparing you to a talking-head in the other thread. You're preaching to people that don't even disagree.

Wow, is that ever not true. I have been absolutely raked through the coals on here multiple times for making those kinds of comparisons. The vast majority of the posters in here think that drawing those kinds of parallels are complete insanity, and that they are "a part of the problem", lol ... Of course, I think that thinking those comparisons are insane is the real insanity, lol.

You don't have the context of Halifax carrying over a back-and-forth we were having in one of the other Trump threads to this one so I'll gloss over that.

Now have you been raked over through the coals for comparing Trump and Trumpism to Hitler and Nazism? Because that seems like a reasonable comparison. Though I don't completely agree, it's fair. Or....do you compare people that voted for Trump to Nazis? Because that's completely different and is, to a degree, part of a problem.

I have been complete lambasted repeatedly for specifically saying that there are some parallels between Trump and his admin and their political tactics and the rise of Nazism/fascism, and I have very clearly explained how, and have even posted many articles trying to explain why that's an apt parallel to be drawn. I've literally been treated like I'm a fucking idiot for suggesting such a thing, over and over, for the past 2 years. So yes, I agree with you - it's a very, very fair and apt comparison. But I think people just have a knee-jerk emotional reaction to the comparison ... which is fucking dangerous as hell IMO. They are the ones that the line about how we have to remember to keep from making the same mistakes is for... and they reject it anyhow.

I can see both sides of this. You can compare Trump to Hitler by suggesting Trump is insane and wants to be a dictator and I think most people would see your argument. On the other hand, the very mention of terms like "Hitler" or "Nazis" often evoke thoughts of the Holocaust. And as horrible as Trump is, you can't (or at least I can't) suspect he has any sinister motives like that. Now a retort to that would be to say that during Hitler's third year as Chancellor, people didn't suspect sinister motives like that either. Fair enough. But Trump doesn't want that. He wants to be beloved by everybody. Unfortunately for him, he's only beloved by the type of people that, prior to entering politics, he would never, ever give the time of day to.

mrussel1 · May 2019

It's a complicated argument, without rehashing the whole thing. There are certainly parallels to Hitler 1933-1936/7 with how rhetoric is used, marginalizing the 'other', attacking the press, treating political opponents as enemies, etc. It goes too far if looking at the whole Third Reich of '33 to '45 which was responsible for the death of 100 million people, 6 million Jews, countless Roma, etc.

PJ_Soul · May 2019

To reject the parallels between Trump and his admin and their tactics now and the rise of fascism in Germany is to plain old ignore the very real dangers of what the Trump is up to, simply because Americans don't want to associate their "great" nation with Hitler. To me, that is just playing ostrich. So I really don't see both sides of it. And of course, as I said, made VERY clear that I wasn't talking about the holocaust. Hell, like I said, I have only drawn parallels between Trump and the RISE of fascism in Germany - the political tactics used during the 1920s and 30s - not with what Nazis did during WWII. I've explained all this ad nauseam. It makes no difference, lol.

mrussel1 · May 2019

PJ_Soul said:

To reject the parallels between Trump and his admin and their tactics now and the rise of fascism in Germany is to plain old ignore the very real dangers of what the Trump is up to, simply because Americans don't want to associate their "great" nation with Hitler. To me, that is just playing ostrich. So I really don't see both sides of it. And of course, as I said, made VERY clear that I wasn't talking about the holocaust. Hell, like I said, I have only drawn parallels between Trump and the RISE of fascism in Germany - the political tactics used during the 1920s and 30s - not with what Nazis did during WWII. I've explained all this ad nauseam. It makes no difference, lol.

If I remember, the heated argument was about ICE and the Einsatzgruppen. I agree with the parallels of the rise, and I don't think it's the 'great' nation thing, rather that because he is just about the most evil man in human history, drawing those comparisons is really a delicate thing. It's not about 'murica, it's about not watering down the evil of Hitler.

PJ_Soul · May 2019

mrussel1 said:

It's a complicated argument, without rehashing the whole thing. There are certainly parallels to Hitler 1933-1936/7 with how rhetoric is used, marginalizing the 'other', attacking the press, treating political opponents as enemies, etc. It goes too far if looking at the whole Third Reich of '33 to '45 which was responsible for the death of 100 million people, 6 million Jews, countless Roma, etc.

It doesn't go too far from '33 to '39 actually. It's still apt at that point. That is exactly when the German government really started attacking and then controlling the press, and when they used all that fake propaganda to get citizens on board with them, and started treating foreigners and minorities as the enemy, as well as liberal intellectualism. There are plenty of parallels going on from '33 to the start of WWII.

mrussel1 · May 2019

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

It's a complicated argument, without rehashing the whole thing. There are certainly parallels to Hitler 1933-1936/7 with how rhetoric is used, marginalizing the 'other', attacking the press, treating political opponents as enemies, etc. It goes too far if looking at the whole Third Reich of '33 to '45 which was responsible for the death of 100 million people, 6 million Jews, countless Roma, etc.

It doesn't go to far from '33 to '39 actually. It's still apt at that point. That is exactly when the German government really started attacking and then controlling the press, and when they used all that fake propaganda to get citizens on board with them, and started treating foreigners and minorities as the enemy. There are plenty of parallels going on from '33 to the start of WWII.

Well Hitler instigated Kristallnacht in 38. So that's the lens I have on it when saying we're not there yet. We haven't had a pogrom, and God willing never will. We also haven't annexed any countries ala Sudentland, Rhineland, Austria. But we're really just splitting hairs. I think we both agree that post 39 is a different story, whereas peace time Germany has parallels.

PJ_Soul · May 2019

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

It's a complicated argument, without rehashing the whole thing. There are certainly parallels to Hitler 1933-1936/7 with how rhetoric is used, marginalizing the 'other', attacking the press, treating political opponents as enemies, etc. It goes too far if looking at the whole Third Reich of '33 to '45 which was responsible for the death of 100 million people, 6 million Jews, countless Roma, etc.

It doesn't go to far from '33 to '39 actually. It's still apt at that point. That is exactly when the German government really started attacking and then controlling the press, and when they used all that fake propaganda to get citizens on board with them, and started treating foreigners and minorities as the enemy. There are plenty of parallels going on from '33 to the start of WWII.

Well Hitler instigated Kristallnacht in 38. So that's the lens I have on it when saying we're not there yet. We haven't had a pogrom, and God willing never will. We also haven't annexed any countries ala Sudentland, Rhineland, Austria. But we're really just splitting hairs. I think we both agree that post 39 is a different story, whereas peace time Germany has parallels.

There is plenty that Hitler did throughout his reign that doesn't match what's happening in America now. Like I've had to state over and over and over and OVER before, just because some parallels are drawn, it doesn't mean that EVERYTHING Hitler did is being compared to Trump or vice versa (But yes, generally the parallels end at the start of the war... for now. These migrant detention centres and the kids in cages, and the travel bans as well, have me very very concerned in that context though, and now Trump's starting to pound the war drum in Iran's face, although that is purely a political tactic for him... he'll be perfectly happy going to war with Iran for no reason if he thinks it will help him win 2020... and who knows where a war with Iran could lead America and world. Probably nowhere good).

OnWis97 · May 2019

Are we really saying you should not compare the Trump Dyansty to the rise of Nazi Germany because the Trump Dynasty has not been responsible for the death to 100 million people? Guess what; at this stage, Hitler had not either. Nobody claims that our dictatorship would look exactly like Hitler's. What they claim is that a) Trump wants to be a dictator, b) the GOP looks like it's ready to get on board, c) the Dems look too weak to stop it, and d) a third of the American people seem to be all-in. It CAN happen here. And if he wins in 2020, it's probably going to. When we don't have checks and balances, when "Lock her/him up" for all Trump opponents becomes reality, when unfriendly news organizations are shut down, and the next President Trump is appointed, rather than elected,* will we still talk about how he hasn't set up concentration camps? This isn't about Trump BEING Hitler. It's about the Trump Dyanasty becoming an authoritarian regime in a similar manner as Hitler's. The comparison are apt and saying it "goes too far" is just calling Trump Bush. And he's not Bush. He's a wannabe dictator. And he has way more support than I ever imagined he'd have.

*And yes, I think these things are all possible in the second term.

Kat · May 2019

OnWis97 said:

Are we really saying you should not compare the Trump Dyansty to the rise of Nazi Germany because the Trump Dynasty has not been responsible for the death to 100 million people? Guess what; at this stage, Hitler had not either. Nobody claims that our dictatorship would look exactly like Hitler's. What they claim is that a) Trump wants to be a dictator, b) the GOP looks like it's ready to get on board, c) the Dems look too weak to stop it, and d) a third of the American people seem to be all-in. It CAN happen here. And if he wins in 2020, it's probably going to. When we don't have checks and balances, when "Lock her/him up" for all Trump opponents becomes reality, when unfriendly news organizations are shut down, and the next President Trump is appointed, rather than elected,* will we still talk about how he hasn't set up concentration camps? This isn't about Trump BEING Hitler. It's about the Trump Dyanasty becoming an authoritarian regime in a similar manner as Hitler's. The comparison are apt and saying it "goes too far" is just calling Trump Bush. And he's not Bush. He's a wannabe dictator. And he has way more support than I ever imagined he'd have.

*And yes, I think these things are all possible in the second term.

This is what I was thinking about too. Hitler wasn't Evil Monster Hitler at first...that happened later. As each stage became "normalized," he got worse and worse and so did his followers.

ikiT · May 2019

I watched that Trumpito hate rally in PA last night.

Without question Don Trump is a Hitler wannabe. He ends up looking and sounding more like Eddie Money.

PJ_Soul · May 2019

Oh, so NOW people are agreeing with this. Where were you for the past year?!

OnWis97 · May 2019

PJ_Soul said:

Oh, so NOW people are agreeing with this. Where were you for the past year?!

Doing my best to stay out of intra-board sqabbles. That said, my concern about authoritarianism has been growing for months.

ikiT · May 2019

I've said he was a fascist from the jump.

PJ_Soul · May 2019

ikiT said:

I've said he was a fascist from the jump.

Everyone's okay with that. They just freak out and go into denial once you say "H-I-T-L-E-R".

mrussel1 · May 2019

OnWis97 said:

Are we really saying you should not compare the Trump Dyansty to the rise of Nazi Germany because the Trump Dynasty has not been responsible for the death to 100 million people? Guess what; at this stage, Hitler had not either. Nobody claims that our dictatorship would look exactly like Hitler's. What they claim is that a) Trump wants to be a dictator, b) the GOP looks like it's ready to get on board, c) the Dems look too weak to stop it, and d) a third of the American people seem to be all-in. It CAN happen here. And if he wins in 2020, it's probably going to. When we don't have checks and balances, when "Lock her/him up" for all Trump opponents becomes reality, when unfriendly news organizations are shut down, and the next President Trump is appointed, rather than elected,* will we still talk about how he hasn't set up concentration camps? This isn't about Trump BEING Hitler. It's about the Trump Dyanasty becoming an authoritarian regime in a similar manner as Hitler's. The comparison are apt and saying it "goes too far" is just calling Trump Bush. And he's not Bush. He's a wannabe dictator. And he has way more support than I ever imagined he'd have.

*And yes, I think these things are all possible in the second term.

When you start comparing someone to Hitler, everyone is going to naturally think of the war and the genocide. They aren't going to think about the Reichstag, the press, the brown shirts and all the thins leading up to 39. So it becomes a very divisive statement unless you're having a long, nuanced conversation. You'll notice that I was specific in speaking of the parallels during the pre-war period, but not after the pograms started. There are other authoritarian figures you could point to that get the job done as well, without invoking the most evil man in history.
My 2 hands cents

PJ_Soul · May 2019

But I don't understand not wanting to think about all the terrible shit that was done during the war either TBH. Because that's a view of just how bad things could get if people are dismissive of Trump's tactics now. WWII and the holocaust should ALWAYS be viewed as warnings for us in the present, since it would be extremely naive to think it or something similar in various ways, to a greater or lesser extent, can't happen again. When you see the warning signs in Trump that Hitler displayed as well in the years leading up to WWII, why would you assume that it might not get just as bad in America as it did in Nazi Germany (or even a fraction as bad, which is beyond bad enough!)? This is why I have always found this knee-jerk aversion to Hitler comparisons disturbing. It's like setting America up for terrible things by means of denial.

Donald Trump

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Trump Administration to LGBT Couples: Your ‘Out of Wedlock’ Kids Aren’t Citizens

Trump Administration to LGBT Couples: Your ‘Out of Wedlock’ Kids Aren’t Citizens

Trump Administration to LGBT Couples: Your ‘Out of Wedlock’ Kids Aren’t Citizens

Trump Administration to LGBT Couples: Your ‘Out of Wedlock’ Kids Aren’t Citizens

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