Team Mueller (and Their Report)

HughFreakingDillon · April 2019

i don't see how it was a failure unless your thinking of the purpose of it was to remove trump, when it was about getting to the truth.

Ledbetterman10 · April 2019

HughFreakingDillon said:

i don't see how it was a failure unless your thinking of the purpose of it was to remove trump, when it was about getting to the truth.

It's not my thinking. The left (and it's parrots) made this Mueller investigation out to be what would take down Trump, and that Meuller is a non-partisan, vigorous investigator who will get to the bottom of all of this and will report back to us with his findings on Russia/Trump collusion. And basically he came up with no definitive conclusion.

Also, one thing that Maher highlighted in that video that Don Jr. was ASKED to voluntarily testify, and of course refused. What the heck is that? Didn't Mueller have more than enough authority to subpoena him?

Lerxst1992 · April 2019

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Perfect commentary by Bill Maher on what a failure the Mueller probe was. My sentiments exactly.....

https://youtu.be/S4LMxMLTCps

fuck him and his arrogance.

agreed.

Whatever. He's still right here.

i disagree. sometimes i agree with maher, sometimes i don't. but he is always a blowhard, in my opinion.

here i do no agree with him. he is suggesting that mueller flub the 'rules' of his job to get what maher wants. that's not how it works. mueller had to follow DOJ guidelines. that was his job. it's congress's job to remove a president. but, there might also be other indictments waiting for trump when he leaves office. who knows.

i personally think it's stupid that the DOJ guidelines are as they are. depending on politicians to decide rule of law? asinine. i will never understand this 'constitutional crisis' people keep screaming about. remove the prez, vp moves up. move on. no crisis. it's justice.

No, the point was Mueller followed "established precedent."

For there to be precedent, a presidential candidate would have asked a hostile superpower for help by committing felonies against Americans. Got any examples of that?

Since Trump's actions were unprecedented, the investigation called for a bold move. Not only did Mueller fail in that regard, he did not even compel the two main witness to testify. W T F.

my2hands · April 2019

Dud

HughFreakingDillon · April 2019

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Perfect commentary by Bill Maher on what a failure the Mueller probe was. My sentiments exactly.....

https://youtu.be/S4LMxMLTCps

fuck him and his arrogance.

agreed.

Whatever. He's still right here.

i disagree. sometimes i agree with maher, sometimes i don't. but he is always a blowhard, in my opinion.

here i do no agree with him. he is suggesting that mueller flub the 'rules' of his job to get what maher wants. that's not how it works. mueller had to follow DOJ guidelines. that was his job. it's congress's job to remove a president. but, there might also be other indictments waiting for trump when he leaves office. who knows.

i personally think it's stupid that the DOJ guidelines are as they are. depending on politicians to decide rule of law? asinine. i will never understand this 'constitutional crisis' people keep screaming about. remove the prez, vp moves up. move on. no crisis. it's justice.

No, the point was Mueller followed "established precedent."

For there to be precedent, a presidential candidate would have asked a hostile superpower for help by committing felonies against Americans. Got any examples of that?

Since Trump's actions were unprecedented, the investigation called for a bold move. Not only did Mueller fail in that regard, he did not even compel the two main witness to testify. W T F.

it's funny, though, as i see all over the place people saying that extreme circumstances call for extreme action, i.e: setting new precedents, with regards to things they wish to happen. but when it comes to trump, everyone wants him to follow precedent. his supporters love that he doesn't.

so should we follow precedent, or set new?

HughFreakingDillon · April 2019

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i don't see how it was a failure unless your thinking of the purpose of it was to remove trump, when it was about getting to the truth.

It's not my thinking. The left (and it's parrots) made this Mueller investigation out to be what would take down Trump, and that Meuller is a non-partisan, vigorous investigator who will get to the bottom of all of this and will report back to us with his findings on Russia/Trump collusion. And basically he came up with no definitive conclusion.

Also, one thing that Maher highlighted in that video that Don Jr. was ASKED to voluntarily testify, and of course refused. What the heck is that? Didn't Mueller have more than enough authority to subpoena him?

is authority enough to issue a subpoena? or do you need something compelling in order to bring that?

njnancy · April 2019

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i don't see how it was a failure unless your thinking of the purpose of it was to remove trump, when it was about getting to the truth.

It's not my thinking. The left (and it's parrots) made this Mueller investigation out to be what would take down Trump, and that Meuller is a non-partisan, vigorous investigator who will get to the bottom of all of this and will report back to us with his findings on Russia/Trump collusion. And basically he came up with no definitive conclusion.

Also, one thing that Maher highlighted in that video that Don Jr. was ASKED to voluntarily testify, and of course refused. What the heck is that? Didn't Mueller have more than enough authority to subpoena him?

is authority enough to issue a subpoena? or do you need something compelling in order to bring that?

I believe that the Special Counsel, who is working for the DOJ, has to ask permission to issue a subpoena - so that would have been Rosenstein or Barr depending on when it was wanted. And they can say no. Now we have found out that Rosenstein wasn't the saving grace that we thought he was.

I believe that Mueller did not issue a subpoena for Junior or Trump or anyone else because he didn't want to get tied up in court which could have lasted years, possibly. Or that's what he has reportedly said. I look forward to hearing him actually speak in Committee hearings.

I also am beginning to think that the end of the Mueller Report coinciding with Barr's appointment may not have been a coincidence. Mueller had to ask permission for investigating into certain areas that might not strictly be in the original order and asking for records, witnesses, documents......perhaps Barr, and Rosenstein became barriers to any further information or prosections. So Muller farmed everything out to other offices and did his report without an interview with the main target - Trump - and also without exploring the people who destroyed and encrypted data when told to hand it over to Mueller and who refused to cooperate and who repeatedly lied. He says in the report that part of the reason he could not come to a conspiracy charge was because of these occurrences. Why were they allowed to get away with destruction of evidence? Isn't that what Trump and the Republicans want to investigate HRC about - the deleted emails?

Seems fishy.

Go Beavers · April 2019

njnancy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i don't see how it was a failure unless your thinking of the purpose of it was to remove trump, when it was about getting to the truth.

It's not my thinking. The left (and it's parrots) made this Mueller investigation out to be what would take down Trump, and that Meuller is a non-partisan, vigorous investigator who will get to the bottom of all of this and will report back to us with his findings on Russia/Trump collusion. And basically he came up with no definitive conclusion.

Also, one thing that Maher highlighted in that video that Don Jr. was ASKED to voluntarily testify, and of course refused. What the heck is that? Didn't Mueller have more than enough authority to subpoena him?

is authority enough to issue a subpoena? or do you need something compelling in order to bring that?

I believe that the Special Counsel, who is working for the DOJ, has to ask permission to issue a subpoena - so that would have been Rosenstein or Barr depending on when it was wanted. And they can say no. Now we have found out that Rosenstein wasn't the saving grace that we thought he was.

I believe that Mueller did not issue a subpoena for Junior or Trump or anyone else because he didn't want to get tied up in court which could have lasted years, possibly. Or that's what he has reportedly said. I look forward to hearing him actually speak in Committee hearings.

I also am beginning to think that the end of the Mueller Report coinciding with Barr's appointment may not have been a coincidence. Mueller had to ask permission for investigating into certain areas that might not strictly be in the original order and asking for records, witnesses, documents......perhaps Barr, and Rosenstein became barriers to any further information or prosections. So Muller farmed everything out to other offices and did his report without an interview with the main target - Trump - and also without exploring the people who destroyed and encrypted data when told to hand it over to Mueller and who refused to cooperate and who repeatedly lied. He says in the report that part of the reason he could not come to a conspiracy charge was because of these occurrences. Why were they allowed to get away with destruction of evidence? Isn't that what Trump and the Republicans want to investigate HRC about - the deleted emails?

Seems fishy.

Trump destroys any records and paper trails, and he continues this as president. He also apparently doesn’t do anything by email, most likely for the same reason. Here’s an article on the two guys who worked in records and would try to tape back together things trump tore up. Eventually they were fired.

“Solomon Lartey spent the first five months of the Trump administration working in the Old Executive Office Building, standing over a desk with scraps of paper spread out in front of him.

Lartey, who earned an annual salary of $65,969 as a records management analyst, was a career government official with close to 30 years under his belt. But he had never seen anything like this in any previous administration he had worked for. He had never had to tape the president’s papers back together again.

Armed with rolls of clear Scotch tape, Lartey and his colleagues would sift through large piles of shredded paper and put them back together, he said, “like a jigsaw puzzle.” Sometimes the papers would just be split down the middle, but other times they would be torn into pieces so small they looked like confetti.

It was a painstaking process that was the result of a clash between legal requirements to preserve White House records and President Donald Trump’s odd and enduring habit of ripping up papers when he’s done with them — what some people described as his unofficial “filing system.”

Under the Presidential Records Act, the White House must preserve all memos, letters, emails and papers that the president touches, sending them to the National Archives for safekeeping as historical records.“

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filing-system-635164

Halifax2TheMax · April 2019

The dem house needs to do its job and stop being pussies. If they don’t, they’ve abdicated their authority and the American people deserve what they get. Call CYA Barr, Rosenstein, Team Mueller to testify and begin hearings. Fuck them because if you (the general you) don’t, you fuck yourselves. Sucks don’t it?

Lerxst1992 · April 2019

Halifax2TheMax said:

The dem house needs to do its job and stop being pussies. If they don’t, they’ve abdicated their authority and the American people deserve what they get. Call CYA Barr, Rosenstein, Team Mueller to testify and begin hearings. Fuck them because if you (the general you) don’t, you fuck yourselves. Sucks don’t it?

So he gets impeached, what does that accomplish? The Senate will never remove him from office.

Aren't they better served focusing on beating him in 2020?

They are better served by going after Barr so Orange Sunshine's devout following doesn't riot in the streets, and all his misdeeds would still be exposed.

Spiritual_Chaos · April 2019

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The dem house needs to do its job and stop being pussies. If they don’t, they’ve abdicated their authority and the American people deserve what they get. Call CYA Barr, Rosenstein, Team Mueller to testify and begin hearings. Fuck them because if you (the general you) don’t, you fuck yourselves. Sucks don’t it?

So he gets impeached, what does that accomplish? The Senate will never remove him from office.

Aren't they better served focusing on beating him in 2020?

They are better served by going after Barr so Orange Sunshine's devout following doesn't riot in the streets, and all his misdeeds would still be exposed.

They can beat him in 2020 AND do what's right from the Mueller findings, and set a precedent for future presidents regarding obstruction of justice etc.

I don't see where this "they should not impeach, even if they find they have grounds for it" is coming from.

Kat · April 2019

I'd bet it's coming from the trumpists....and russians.

If we don't do the right thing, there are no consequences for doing wrong things. It's so clear to me. I must be insane.

Ledbetterman10 · April 2019

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The dem house needs to do its job and stop being pussies. If they don’t, they’ve abdicated their authority and the American people deserve what they get. Call CYA Barr, Rosenstein, Team Mueller to testify and begin hearings. Fuck them because if you (the general you) don’t, you fuck yourselves. Sucks don’t it?

So he gets impeached, what does that accomplish? The Senate will never remove him from office.

Aren't they better served focusing on beating him in 2020?

They are better served by going after Barr so Orange Sunshine's devout following doesn't riot in the streets, and all his misdeeds would still be exposed.

They can beat him in 2020 AND do what's right from the Mueller findings, and set a precedent for future presidents regarding obstruction of justice etc.

I don't see where this "they should not impeach, even if they find they have grounds for it" is coming from.

Here's where it's coming from. Many of us feel that to the undecided voter that doesn't follow all of this crap, an acquittal in an impeachment trial would be looked at as another failed attempt by the left to bring down Trump. Mueller's report found no collusion. It found obstruction I guess, but nothing that will hurt Trump. So if there's an impeachment that doesn't lead to his removal from office, undecided voters will basically feel what the Hannitys of the world have been rambling about for months: the left couldn't beat Trump at the polls, so they're desperately trying any and all methods they can to get rid of him. Could help him get reelected.

Halifax2TheMax · April 2019

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The dem house needs to do its job and stop being pussies. If they don’t, they’ve abdicated their authority and the American people deserve what they get. Call CYA Barr, Rosenstein, Team Mueller to testify and begin hearings. Fuck them because if you (the general you) don’t, you fuck yourselves. Sucks don’t it?

So he gets impeached, what does that accomplish? The Senate will never remove him from office.

Aren't they better served focusing on beating him in 2020?

They are better served by going after Barr so Orange Sunshine's devout following doesn't riot in the streets, and all his misdeeds would still be exposed.

It puts the repubs on record for having to defend Team Trump Treason. Lyndsey Graham on the senate floor explaining how those 10 avenues of obstruction doesn’t add up to obstruction of justice. Also, Team Mueller didn’t find or couldn’t prove conspiracy, which is it? And 14 other continuing investigations spawned by Team Mueller. Defend that repubs.

To not hold impeachment hearings and a floor vote because the senate won’t convict and remove is line an NFC team deciding not to play the 4th quarter against TB12 and the patriots because they’re going to lose. I’d rather go down fighting and being on the right side of history rather than walking away into the locker room with time on the clock.

OnWis97 · April 2019

If it's the right thing to do, it's more important than political strategy. Yeah, I know there's a chance that it hurts the Dems politically. I think most people that aren't hard-core anti-Trump probably want all this to end. But this is about the future of the office and the degree to which its occupant can get away with directing staff to break the law. It's a political risk they need to take if they're serious about preserving the republic.

(And if you are about strategy, then don't assume the GOP Senators will side with Trump...force them to side with Trump)

HughFreakingDillon · April 2019

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The dem house needs to do its job and stop being pussies. If they don’t, they’ve abdicated their authority and the American people deserve what they get. Call CYA Barr, Rosenstein, Team Mueller to testify and begin hearings. Fuck them because if you (the general you) don’t, you fuck yourselves. Sucks don’t it?

So he gets impeached, what does that accomplish? The Senate will never remove him from office.

Aren't they better served focusing on beating him in 2020?

They are better served by going after Barr so Orange Sunshine's devout following doesn't riot in the streets, and all his misdeeds would still be exposed.

It puts the repubs on record for having to defend Team Trump Treason. Lyndsey Graham on the senate floor explaining how those 10 avenues of obstruction doesn’t add up to obstruction of justice. Also, Team Mueller didn’t find or couldn’t prove conspiracy, which is it? And 14 other continuing investigations spawned by Team Mueller. Defend that repubs.

To not hold impeachment hearings and a floor vote because the senate won’t convict and remove is line an NFC team deciding not to play the 4th quarter against TB12 and the patriots because they’re going to lose. I’d rather go down fighting and being on the right side of history rather than walking away into the locker room with time on the clock.

they've all been on record the last two years defending him. if that's the rationale, it won't make a lick of difference in the court of public opinion. in 30 years no one will even remember mitch mcconnell's name except political historians, so what does 'having them on record' really do? partisanship is at an all time high in the US, so that will not sway any votes. not now, and not in subsequent elections.

Halifax2TheMax · April 2019

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The dem house needs to do its job and stop being pussies. If they don’t, they’ve abdicated their authority and the American people deserve what they get. Call CYA Barr, Rosenstein, Team Mueller to testify and begin hearings. Fuck them because if you (the general you) don’t, you fuck yourselves. Sucks don’t it?

So he gets impeached, what does that accomplish? The Senate will never remove him from office.

Aren't they better served focusing on beating him in 2020?

They are better served by going after Barr so Orange Sunshine's devout following doesn't riot in the streets, and all his misdeeds would still be exposed.

It puts the repubs on record for having to defend Team Trump Treason. Lyndsey Graham on the senate floor explaining how those 10 avenues of obstruction doesn’t add up to obstruction of justice. Also, Team Mueller didn’t find or couldn’t prove conspiracy, which is it? And 14 other continuing investigations spawned by Team Mueller. Defend that repubs.

To not hold impeachment hearings and a floor vote because the senate won’t convict and remove is line an NFC team deciding not to play the 4th quarter against TB12 and the patriots because they’re going to lose. I’d rather go down fighting and being on the right side of history rather than walking away into the locker room with time on the clock.

they've all been on record the last two years defending him. if that's the rationale, it won't make a lick of difference in the court of public opinion. in 30 years no one will even remember mitch mcconnell's name except political historians, so what does 'having them on record' really do? partisanship is at an all time high in the US, so that will not sway any votes. not now, and not in subsequent elections.

None of them are on the floor of the senate defending Team Trump Treason’s raping of the constitution. Before the press? Sure. The floor of the senate is different. And what comes out during televised congressional hearings and live feeds of senate speeches matters to people. Not the Team Trump Treason voter or quitters but people who still care. They’re worth fighting for and they’re the ones who’ll make the difference. I’m not willing to cede that to Team Trump Treason. Plus, impeachment is something that never happened to the black guy and I expect that Team Trump Treason would nuke Nancy’s district as a result.

Why so negative?

mickeyrat · April 2019

part way through. had to post it here....

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/ben-wittes-five-conclusions-mueller-report/588259/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

HughFreakingDillon · April 2019

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The dem house needs to do its job and stop being pussies. If they don’t, they’ve abdicated their authority and the American people deserve what they get. Call CYA Barr, Rosenstein, Team Mueller to testify and begin hearings. Fuck them because if you (the general you) don’t, you fuck yourselves. Sucks don’t it?

So he gets impeached, what does that accomplish? The Senate will never remove him from office.

Aren't they better served focusing on beating him in 2020?

They are better served by going after Barr so Orange Sunshine's devout following doesn't riot in the streets, and all his misdeeds would still be exposed.

It puts the repubs on record for having to defend Team Trump Treason. Lyndsey Graham on the senate floor explaining how those 10 avenues of obstruction doesn’t add up to obstruction of justice. Also, Team Mueller didn’t find or couldn’t prove conspiracy, which is it? And 14 other continuing investigations spawned by Team Mueller. Defend that repubs.

To not hold impeachment hearings and a floor vote because the senate won’t convict and remove is line an NFC team deciding not to play the 4th quarter against TB12 and the patriots because they’re going to lose. I’d rather go down fighting and being on the right side of history rather than walking away into the locker room with time on the clock.

they've all been on record the last two years defending him. if that's the rationale, it won't make a lick of difference in the court of public opinion. in 30 years no one will even remember mitch mcconnell's name except political historians, so what does 'having them on record' really do? partisanship is at an all time high in the US, so that will not sway any votes. not now, and not in subsequent elections.

None of them are on the floor of the senate defending Team Trump Treason’s raping of the constitution. Before the press? Sure. The floor of the senate is different. And what comes out during televised congressional hearings and live feeds of senate speeches matters to people. Not the Team Trump Treason voter or quitters but people who still care. They’re worth fighting for and they’re the ones who’ll make the difference. I’m not willing to cede that to Team Trump Treason. Plus, impeachment is something that never happened to the black guy and I expect that Team Trump Treason would nuke Nancy’s district as a result.

Why so negative?

not negative. just realistic. I'm not against impeachment, I'm for it. I just think that doing it for "putting the repubs on record" is kind of a weak reason. mainly because I don't think it will matter to the electorate. All anyone will remember is if he gets impeached or not, not how people voted. people forgive voting down party lines. it's what's normal now.

I think you have to impeach because it's the right thing to do, not out of some revenge tactic. But either way, seems we agree.

Go Beavers · April 2019

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The dem house needs to do its job and stop being pussies. If they don’t, they’ve abdicated their authority and the American people deserve what they get. Call CYA Barr, Rosenstein, Team Mueller to testify and begin hearings. Fuck them because if you (the general you) don’t, you fuck yourselves. Sucks don’t it?

So he gets impeached, what does that accomplish? The Senate will never remove him from office.

Aren't they better served focusing on beating him in 2020?

They are better served by going after Barr so Orange Sunshine's devout following doesn't riot in the streets, and all his misdeeds would still be exposed.

It puts the repubs on record for having to defend Team Trump Treason. Lyndsey Graham on the senate floor explaining how those 10 avenues of obstruction doesn’t add up to obstruction of justice. Also, Team Mueller didn’t find or couldn’t prove conspiracy, which is it? And 14 other continuing investigations spawned by Team Mueller. Defend that repubs.

To not hold impeachment hearings and a floor vote because the senate won’t convict and remove is line an NFC team deciding not to play the 4th quarter against TB12 and the patriots because they’re going to lose. I’d rather go down fighting and being on the right side of history rather than walking away into the locker room with time on the clock.

they've all been on record the last two years defending him. if that's the rationale, it won't make a lick of difference in the court of public opinion. in 30 years no one will even remember mitch mcconnell's name except political historians, so what does 'having them on record' really do? partisanship is at an all time high in the US, so that will not sway any votes. not now, and not in subsequent elections.

None of them are on the floor of the senate defending Team Trump Treason’s raping of the constitution. Before the press? Sure. The floor of the senate is different. And what comes out during televised congressional hearings and live feeds of senate speeches matters to people. Not the Team Trump Treason voter or quitters but people who still care. They’re worth fighting for and they’re the ones who’ll make the difference. I’m not willing to cede that to Team Trump Treason. Plus, impeachment is something that never happened to the black guy and I expect that Team Trump Treason would nuke Nancy’s district as a result.

Why so negative?

not negative. just realistic. I'm not against impeachment, I'm for it. I just think that doing it for "putting the repubs on record" is kind of a weak reason. mainly because I don't think it will matter to the electorate. All anyone will remember is if he gets impeached or not, not how people voted. people forgive voting down party lines. it's what's normal now.

I think you have to impeach because it's the right thing to do, not out of some revenge tactic. But either way, seems we agree.

Swing voters decide every election. So the political question to impeachment is whether dems will pick up swing voters as a result of it. And right now it’s probably too early to tell.

Team Mueller (and Their Report)

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