Team Mueller (and Their Report)

Go Beavers

brianlux said:

And this is why Dems need to move ahead with impeachment. It’ll make republicans go public with a committed position and create division in the party, whether it’s 90/10, 80/20, whatever the number is. 

josevolution

Go Beavers said:

brianlux said:

And this is why Dems need to move ahead with impeachment. It’ll make republicans go public with a committed position and create division in the party, whether it’s 90/10, 80/20, whatever the number is. 

Yep make them stand with the crook ! 

jeffbr

my2hands said:

brianlux said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/gop-staffer-advocates-trumps-impeachment/587785/

The article behind this tweet was really great. 

tbergs

jeffbr said:

my2hands said:

brianlux said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/gop-staffer-advocates-trumps-impeachment/587785/

The article behind this tweet was really great. 

Agreed. Good read and perspective.

Spiritual_Chaos

I mean - republicans werent up for impeachment for Nixon in the beginning either - right?

Bentleyspop

jeffbr said:

my2hands said:

brianlux said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/gop-staffer-advocates-trumps-impeachment/587785/

The article behind this tweet was really great. 

"Depending on how you count, roughly a dozen separate instances of obstruction of justice are contained in the Mueller report. The president dangled pardons in front of witnesses to encourage them to lie to the special counsel, and directly ordered people to lie to throw the special counsel off the scent."

brianlux

It seems most here are in favor of impeachment.  I have to admit, I'm on the fence of this.  It certainly appears now that he should be.  But what are the consequences? 

This: 

This would be our next president, at least until 2020 if not longer.  Trump is not a great president but he is transparent.  You know what he is up to.  Pence would be opaque.  He would be more apt to be able to achieve the following:

- Allow firearms to be kept in vehicle on school property.

-Defund or even shut down Planned Parenthood.

-Make abortion illegal.

-Outlaw gay marriage.

-Restrict LGBT rights.

-Eliminate embryonic stem cell research.

-Reverse legal cannabis efforts.

-And (in the long run), worst of all, reverse efforts to stem global warming.   He's already voted to eliminate funding for climate education programs and voted against energy efficiency and renewable energy funding and rules and has supported offshore drilling.

Sure, Trump is bad news on these issues, but Pence?  Think about it.

jeffbr

brianlux said:

It seems most here are in favor of impeachment.  I have to admit, I'm on the fence of this.  It certainly appears now that he should be.  But what are the consequences? 

This: 

This would be our next president, at least until 2020 if not longer.  Trump is not a great president but he is transparent.  You know what he is up to.  Pence would be opaque.  He would be more apt to be able to achieve the following:

- Allow firearms to be kept in vehicle on school property.

-Defund or even shut down Planned Parenthood.

-Make abortion illegal.

-Outlaw gay marriage.

-Restrict LGBT rights.

-Eliminate embryonic stem cell research.

-Reverse legal cannabis efforts.

-And (in the long run), worst of all, reverse efforts to stem global warming.   He's already voted to eliminate funding for climate education programs and voted against energy efficiency and renewable energy funding and rules and has supported offshore drilling.

Sure, Trump is bad news on these issues, but Pence?  Think about it.

Yeah, Pence scares the shit out of me. But his term would be very limited in nature (finish out Donny's term). He'd be considered a lame-duck from day 1. And he has no ability to win the election on his own, so he'd do a partial term and slink back home. A CNN poll a few months ago highlighted Pence's favorability, he had a 39% approval rating and a full 12% of those surveyed said they had never heard of him! lol. I think his impact would be very limited. He'd basically be a care taker until the election.

brianlux

jeffbr said:

brianlux said:

It seems most here are in favor of impeachment.  I have to admit, I'm on the fence of this.  It certainly appears now that he should be.  But what are the consequences? 

This: 

This would be our next president, at least until 2020 if not longer.  Trump is not a great president but he is transparent.  You know what he is up to.  Pence would be opaque.  He would be more apt to be able to achieve the following:

- Allow firearms to be kept in vehicle on school property.

-Defund or even shut down Planned Parenthood.

-Make abortion illegal.

-Outlaw gay marriage.

-Restrict LGBT rights.

-Eliminate embryonic stem cell research.

-Reverse legal cannabis efforts.

-And (in the long run), worst of all, reverse efforts to stem global warming.   He's already voted to eliminate funding for climate education programs and voted against energy efficiency and renewable energy funding and rules and has supported offshore drilling.

Sure, Trump is bad news on these issues, but Pence?  Think about it.

Yeah, Pence scares the shit out of me. But his term would be very limited in nature (finish out Donny's term). He'd be considered a lame-duck from day 1. And he has no ability to win the election on his own, so he'd do a partial term and slink back home. A CNN poll a few months ago highlighted Pence's favorability, he had a 39% approval rating and a full 12% of those surveyed said they had never heard of him! lol. I think his impact would be very limited. He'd basically be a care taker until the election.

Good points Jeff,  I hope that's how it would be.

OnWis97

jeffbr said:

brianlux said:

It seems most here are in favor of impeachment.  I have to admit, I'm on the fence of this.  It certainly appears now that he should be.  But what are the consequences? 

This: 

This would be our next president, at least until 2020 if not longer.  Trump is not a great president but he is transparent.  You know what he is up to.  Pence would be opaque.  He would be more apt to be able to achieve the following:

- Allow firearms to be kept in vehicle on school property.

-Defund or even shut down Planned Parenthood.

-Make abortion illegal.

-Outlaw gay marriage.

-Restrict LGBT rights.

-Eliminate embryonic stem cell research.

-Reverse legal cannabis efforts.

-And (in the long run), worst of all, reverse efforts to stem global warming.   He's already voted to eliminate funding for climate education programs and voted against energy efficiency and renewable energy funding and rules and has supported offshore drilling.

Sure, Trump is bad news on these issues, but Pence?  Think about it.

Yeah, Pence scares the shit out of me. But his term would be very limited in nature (finish out Donny's term). He'd be considered a lame-duck from day 1. And he has no ability to win the election on his own, so he'd do a partial term and slink back home. A CNN poll a few months ago highlighted Pence's favorability, he had a 39% approval rating and a full 12% of those surveyed said they had never heard of him! lol. I think his impact would be very limited. He'd basically be a care taker until the election.

I tend to agree.  The populist fervor that got Trump elected would die with Pence.  I'd be very, very curious to see who gets the nomination in 2020, because I still think Trump (or a version smart enough to not get in legal hot water) is the model.  But Pence is a short-term annoyance.  I doubt he'd even seek the nomination.  He may be worse than Trump on some issues.  But this is not about issues anymore.  This is about the survival of the republic.  

josevolution

This is more about sending a message as EWarren said they know it would die in the senate ! 

brianlux

josevolution said:

This is more about sending a message as EWarren said they know it would die in the senate ! 

Which leads me to ask, is the investigation dead?  Is there no way now to push ahead?  Or will this be yet another chapter in a future edition of A People's History of the United States?

josevolution

brianlux said:

josevolution said:

This is more about sending a message as EWarren said they know it would die in the senate ! 

Which leads me to ask, is the investigation dead?  Is there no way now to push ahead?  Or will this be yet another chapter in a future edition of A People's History of the United States?

No they are going to move forward with impeachment they have too , it’s about letting the country know that congress is still in charge & that no one including the president is above the law ! This is gonna get ugly 

my2hands

brianlux said:

josevolution said:

This is more about sending a message as EWarren said they know it would die in the senate ! 

Which leads me to ask, is the investigation dead?  Is there no way now to push ahead?  Or will this be yet another chapter in a future edition of A People's History of the United States?

I would love to hear what Zinn would have to say right now.... i always loved his style 

Ledbetterman10

Perfect commentary by Bill Maher on what a failure the Mueller probe was. My sentiments exactly.....

https://youtu.be/S4LMxMLTCps

mickeyrat

Ledbetterman10 said:

Perfect commentary by Bill Maher on what a failure the Mueller probe was. My sentiments exactly.....

https://youtu.be/S4LMxMLTCps

fuck him and his arrogance.

HughFreakingDillon

mickeyrat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Perfect commentary by Bill Maher on what a failure the Mueller probe was. My sentiments exactly.....

https://youtu.be/S4LMxMLTCps

fuck him and his arrogance.

agreed. 

Ledbetterman10

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Perfect commentary by Bill Maher on what a failure the Mueller probe was. My sentiments exactly.....

https://youtu.be/S4LMxMLTCps

fuck him and his arrogance.

agreed. 

Whatever. He's still right here. 

HughFreakingDillon

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Perfect commentary by Bill Maher on what a failure the Mueller probe was. My sentiments exactly.....

https://youtu.be/S4LMxMLTCps

fuck him and his arrogance.

agreed. 

Whatever. He's still right here. 

i disagree. sometimes i agree with maher, sometimes i don't. but he is always a blowhard, in my opinion.

here i do no agree with him. he is suggesting that mueller flub the 'rules' of his job to get what maher wants. that's not how it works.  mueller had to follow DOJ guidelines. that was his job. it's congress's job to remove a president. but, there might also be other indictments waiting for trump when he leaves office. who knows. 

i personally think it's stupid that the DOJ guidelines are as they are. depending on politicians to decide rule of law? asinine. i will never understand this 'constitutional crisis' people keep screaming about. remove the prez, vp moves up. move on. no crisis. it's justice. 

Ledbetterman10

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Perfect commentary by Bill Maher on what a failure the Mueller probe was. My sentiments exactly.....

https://youtu.be/S4LMxMLTCps

fuck him and his arrogance.

agreed. 

Whatever. He's still right here. 

i disagree. sometimes i agree with maher, sometimes i don't. but he is always a blowhard, in my opinion.

here i do no agree with him. mueller had to follow guidelines. that was his job. it's congress's job to remove a president. but, there might also be other indictments waiting for trump when he leaves office. who knows. 

i personally think it's stupid that the DOJ guidelines are as they are. depending on politicians to decide rule of law? asinine. i will never understand this 'constitutional crisis' people keep screaming about. remove the prez, vp moves up. move on. no crisis. it's justice. 

That's all fair enough. I guess I just like seeing at least one liberal suggest the Mueller probe was a complete failure, rather than looking at the silver-lining like more of Trump's shadowy dealings being exposed, or the possibility of post-presidency indictments on Trump. Who would even care at that point? I ask that rhetorically because I know a lot of people would. But I wouldn't.