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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,888
    Great Article:

    The tricky lesson of MAGA hat confrontation

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/opinions/the-tricky-lesson-of-maga-hat-confrontation-granderson/index.html

    It was such an easy sell -- images of white kids from Kentucky wearing Make America Great Again hats and antagonizing elderly Native Americans seemed like racism personified. Right? 

    Not so fast. For those who believe all President Trump supporters are just a bunch of racists, the initial videos that surfaced of a confrontation at the Lincoln Memorial last weekend served as kindling for a fire that's been burning since he was elected in November 8, 2016. Then the story got complicated. 
    I covered that 2016 election, from the numerous primary debates to that historic Tuesday night, and it's been my experience that a significant number of Donald Trump's supporters are racists. It has also been my experience that a significant number are not.
    And while many liberals believe those ubiquitous red baseball caps are a modern-day white hood, the truth is they are not one and the same. The initial video clip of the Covington Catholic High School students -- in which a teenage boy faced off with a Native American elder at the Indigenous People's Rally -- was a Rorschach inkblot. The other clips that have since been released -- in which a group of black men, self-identified as Hebrew Israelites, are seen taunting not only the students but hurling racist slurs at participants of the Indigenous Peoples Rally -- is a reminder. 
    The decline in public libraries and the rise of tablets have made books less popular, but this age-old idiom still remains true: you can't judge a book by its cover. 
    That's not to suggest the high school students were all angels or that none of them harbor disappointing views about diversity. But the actions of the group of black men who identify as members of the Hebrew Israelites add depth to a story many thought was fairly easy to figure out. 
    And all because of a baseball cap.

    Now teenage boys are reportedly getting death threats for being a part of something that it appears a bunch of angry adults started. I don't despise social media, but it certainly lends itself to a mob mentality very quickly. A white woman getting bent out of shape about black people barbecuing in a public park can quickly become a meme or hashtag thanks to Twitter. But she can also become a social pariah, which is why it's important to resist the urge to grab anything that looks like kindling and toss it on the anti-Trump flame. 
    Being a politically engaged electorate is not only important, it's the heartbeat of a healthy democracy. But there is a difference between simply being engaged and being informed. A voter can be as dumb as a doorknob and still be engaged. To be informed takes more than outrage, it takes time. At least more time than the seconds one needs to read a baseball cap.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,888
    Even more interesting (how easily we are all persuaded):
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/tech/twitter-suspends-account-native-american-maga-teens/index.html

    Twitter suspends account that helped ignite controversy over viral encounter

    New York (CNN Business)Twitter suspended an account on Monday afternoon that helped spread a controversial encounter between a Native American elder and a group of high school students wearing Make America Great Again hats. 

    The account claimed to belong to a California schoolteacher. Its profile photo was not of a schoolteacher, but of a blogger based in Brazil, CNN Business found. Twitter suspended the account soon after CNN Business asked about it.
    The account, with the username @2020fight, was set up in December 2016 and appeared to be the tweets of a woman named Talia living in California.
    The video shared by @2020fight did not show what preceded the confrontation between the Native American elder and the high school students.
    The video had been posted earlier on Instagram by someone who was at the event, but it was @2020fight's caption that helped frame the news cycle. 
    Rob McDonagh, an assistant editor at Storyful, a service that vets content online, was monitoring Twitter activity on Saturday morning and said the @2020fight video was the main version of the incident being shared on social media.
    In one indicator of the @2020fight's video's virality, multiple newsrooms, including some national American outlets, reached out to the user asking them directly about the video.

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    tbergstbergs Posts: 9,244
    mcgruff10 said:
    Even more interesting (how easily we are all persuaded):
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/tech/twitter-suspends-account-native-american-maga-teens/index.html

    Twitter suspends account that helped ignite controversy over viral encounter

    New York (CNN Business)Twitter suspended an account on Monday afternoon that helped spread a controversial encounter between a Native American elder and a group of high school students wearing Make America Great Again hats. 

    The account claimed to belong to a California schoolteacher. Its profile photo was not of a schoolteacher, but of a blogger based in Brazil, CNN Business found. Twitter suspended the account soon after CNN Business asked about it.
    The account, with the username @2020fight, was set up in December 2016 and appeared to be the tweets of a woman named Talia living in California.
    The video shared by @2020fight did not show what preceded the confrontation between the Native American elder and the high school students.
    The video had been posted earlier on Instagram by someone who was at the event, but it was @2020fight's caption that helped frame the news cycle. 
    Rob McDonagh, an assistant editor at Storyful, a service that vets content online, was monitoring Twitter activity on Saturday morning and said the @2020fight video was the main version of the incident being shared on social media.
    In one indicator of the @2020fight's video's virality, multiple newsrooms, including some national American outlets, reached out to the user asking them directly about the video.

    Were that many people really persuaded? I think a lot of people have gotten accustomed to video/images being edited to fit a stereotype, viewpoint or agenda. I have been more cautionary on waiting for all the information or at least full video/image context. It sucks that this is how untrustworthy information sources have become. In a way it leads to quicker access, but all the freelance asshats keep trying to spin situations a certain way so they can go "viral". Pathetic.
    It's a hopeless situation...
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    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,938
    Once upon a time, kids who were assholes were just that - kids who were assholes. This incessant need to segment the population seems to give the offenders a larger group of 'bad actors' to 'belong to' and hide behind. What happened to personal accountability?
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    EV
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    PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    mcgruff10 said:
    Great Article:

    The tricky lesson of MAGA hat confrontation

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/opinions/the-tricky-lesson-of-maga-hat-confrontation-granderson/index.html

    It was such an easy sell -- images of white kids from Kentucky wearing Make America Great Again hats and antagonizing elderly Native Americans seemed like racism personified. Right? 

    Not so fast. For those who believe all President Trump supporters are just a bunch of racists, the initial videos that surfaced of a confrontation at the Lincoln Memorial last weekend served as kindling for a fire that's been burning since he was elected in November 8, 2016. Then the story got complicated. 
    I covered that 2016 election, from the numerous primary debates to that historic Tuesday night, and it's been my experience that a significant number of Donald Trump's supporters are racists. It has also been my experience that a significant number are not.
    And while many liberals believe those ubiquitous red baseball caps are a modern-day white hood, the truth is they are not one and the same. The initial video clip of the Covington Catholic High School students -- in which a teenage boy faced off with a Native American elder at the Indigenous People's Rally -- was a Rorschach inkblot. The other clips that have since been released -- in which a group of black men, self-identified as Hebrew Israelites, are seen taunting not only the students but hurling racist slurs at participants of the Indigenous Peoples Rally -- is a reminder. 
    The decline in public libraries and the rise of tablets have made books less popular, but this age-old idiom still remains true: you can't judge a book by its cover. 
    That's not to suggest the high school students were all angels or that none of them harbor disappointing views about diversity. But the actions of the group of black men who identify as members of the Hebrew Israelites add depth to a story many thought was fairly easy to figure out. 
    And all because of a baseball cap.

    Now teenage boys are reportedly getting death threats for being a part of something that it appears a bunch of angry adults started. I don't despise social media, but it certainly lends itself to a mob mentality very quickly. A white woman getting bent out of shape about black people barbecuing in a public park can quickly become a meme or hashtag thanks to Twitter. But she can also become a social pariah, which is why it's important to resist the urge to grab anything that looks like kindling and toss it on the anti-Trump flame. 
    Being a politically engaged electorate is not only important, it's the heartbeat of a healthy democracy. But there is a difference between simply being engaged and being informed. A voter can be as dumb as a doorknob and still be engaged. To be informed takes more than outrage, it takes time. At least more time than the seconds one needs to read a baseball cap.
    I liked the “Rorschach inkblot” reference...so true.
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    PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    PJ_Soul said:

    PJPOWER said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    my2hands said:
    my2hands said:
    Social media and the social media mobs suck and are a stain on modern society... people ready to find outrage with anything and everything, even just a picture or 10 second video clip... what a joke

    I think many of the people passed off would have been pissed off had they been there too.

    What do you want from people? Cold indifference?

    You should feel good that people get pissed off when a bunch of shit kids act like assholes. If it generated no voiced displeasure... what would that say about society?
    I'm not just talking about this latest bs... but you think what happened there is national news? People are ready to string those kids up like nazi's over nothing... what did they even do? People see those red hats and are ready to jump, plain and simple

    And MOST of the people acting pissed off, acted like assholes a few times when they were kids, likely in worse ways, now have forgotten and think their shit doesnt stink. I'm not fucking buying it
    Agree.  This kid's life could potentially be ruined because he wore a MAGA hat and smirked at a 70 year old playing a drum in his face?  Like I said before, the kids were typical asshole teenagers with really bad supervision.  Give the kid a Saturday detention or suspend him from future trips.  
    Are you sure?

    In his circle of friends... he might be a celebrity.

    He's a really nice kid. Just go cook him a rib-eye.

    * And for the record... in my eyes... this kid's poor behaviour is the failure of his parents. Unfortunately, it doesn't take him off the hook. People ticked off don't want to say 'boys will be boys' when losers act like losers. They want to say 'that was terrible behaviour'.
    What poor behavior? Smirking and staring after a 70 year old man comes up to you and beats a loud ass drum in your face?

    Oh f**k are you serious? The old guy is the asshole?

    He's not part of the gaggle of idiots that made asses of themselves throughout the entire day? Did you read his (pathetic) account where he talked about how the crowd parted for the old guy then encircled him? How come he never 'parted'? Oh... right... he was the self-anointed calm one of the whole bunch actively working on diffusing the situation.

    I'm shocked at how some people here make excuses for this little shithead. Absolutely f**king stunned. Wow.
    So again, what did the kid do wrong?  Did he say anything? Make any violent gestures?

    i m not saying the old guy was wrong but he didn’t exactly see the results he wanted. 

    The old guy took a chance. Did it work out? Not with this group of people. Don't worry. He's probably learned that his place is in the background. Just like people exercise patience for old people at crosswalks... we exercise patience in all other areas of life. They've earned it.

    The kid disrespected an elder in the ways already described. In my parts... that is something seriously frowned upon and not condoned in any way. I'm gathering that in other parts of the world, the same levels of respect are not in place.

    As a side (not that the kid would have thought about this ahead of time nor is he responsible for it)... the image of him smirking at the old man with his bright red hat on is symbolic of the US' social culture at the moment. It's obscene.
    Where is your outrage at the “black Israelites” talking down to the Native American?  What they said was far worse than the teenager “looking at him funny”.  
    Maybe that isn’t frowned at or obscene in “your parts”
    I actually think the loudmouthed Christian (No, they were NOT black Jews - they were going off about Jesus) should go onto some kind of terrorist watchlist TBH. Forgetting how the mob of teenagers acted for a sec (and yes, they definitely displaying some of their own aggressive behaviour, and 100% aggressively surrounded that Native drummer, and it seemed menacing to me. and it also seemed clear that he was trying to calm down the situation, and no, he didn't walk up and drum in a kid's face. The kids surrounded him very quickly when he simply walked between the mob and the crazy racist crazy person)... That fucking crack pot who yelled terrible things to literally anyone who came near him for over an hour before the drummer even came into the picture seems dangerous to me. He is a total extremist and did bring up some violent points. The one thing I will give him credit for is that he's a Christian who is super against the Catholic Church. Otherwise, he's a disgusting, sexist, racist homophobe.
    I agree with this view point and think that “loudmouth Christian” needs to be the main target of the outrage.  That is some “out there” behavior.  
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    dignindignin Posts: 9,303
    edited January 2019

    ‘Absolutely out of control’: Cliff Sims’s book depicts life in Trump’s White House

    At times, Trump evinced less rage than a lack of interest. Sims recounts one time when Ryan was in the Oval Office explaining the ins and outs of the Republican health-care bill to the president. As Ryan droned on for 15 minutes, Trump sipped on a glass of Diet Coke, peered out at the Rose Garden, stared aimlessly at the walls and, finally, walked out.

    Ryan kept talking as the president wandered down the hall to his private dining room, where he flicked on his giant flat-screen TV. Apparently, he had had enough of Ryan’s talk. It fell to Vice President Pence to retrieve Trump and convince him to return to the Oval Office so they could continue their strategy session.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/absolutely-out-of-control-cliff-simss-book-depicts-life-in-trumps-white-house/2019/01/21/883d2412-1d92-11e9-9145-3f74070bbdb9_story.html?utm_term=.167a4f5ad5fa


    Gong show.
    Post edited by dignin on
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    jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    edited January 2019

    Trump’s Lawyer Said There Were “No Plans” For Trump Tower Moscow. Here They Are.

    Buzzfeed strikes again. This time they've published the proposed development document for Trump Tower Moscow, under the Trump Acquisition LLC letterhead. It includes the $50million penthouse suite they were going to give away to Vlad, as well as a spa that would operate as Spa by Ivanka. :lol:

    I thought Rudy was saying this weekend that there were no plans. What a bunch of lying liars.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,295
    In the poll, which apparently is not fake, that he’s citing, his overall approval is a robust 39%. Working hard!




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    jeffbr said:

    Trump’s Lawyer Said There Were “No Plans” For Trump Tower Moscow. Here They Are.

    Buzzfeed strikes again. This time they've published the proposed development document for Trump Tower Moscow, under the Trump Acquisition LLC letterhead. It includes the $50million penthouse suite they were going to give away to Vlad, as well as a spa that would operate as Spa by Ivanka. :lol:

    I thought Rudy was saying this weekend that there were no plans. What a bunch of lying liars.
    Seriously? Who here is surprised?

    “There was no collusion.”
    ”I don’t know any Russians.”
    ”I have nothing to hide.”
    ”I’ll sit down and talk to anyone.”
    ”We do everything by the book.”
    “Only the guilty plea the fifth.”
    “Very legal, very cool.”

    Follow the money, from Russia with love and a PTape, all the way to impeachment.

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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,295
    edited January 2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    Even more interesting (how easily we are all persuaded):
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/tech/twitter-suspends-account-native-american-maga-teens/index.html

    Twitter suspends account that helped ignite controversy over viral encounter

    New York (CNN Business)Twitter suspended an account on Monday afternoon that helped spread a controversial encounter between a Native American elder and a group of high school students wearing Make America Great Again hats. 

    The account claimed to belong to a California schoolteacher. Its profile photo was not of a schoolteacher, but of a blogger based in Brazil, CNN Business found. Twitter suspended the account soon after CNN Business asked about it.
    The account, with the username @2020fight, was set up in December 2016 and appeared to be the tweets of a woman named Talia living in California.
    The video shared by @2020fight did not show what preceded the confrontation between the Native American elder and the high school students.
    The video had been posted earlier on Instagram by someone who was at the event, but it was @2020fight's caption that helped frame the news cycle. 
    Rob McDonagh, an assistant editor at Storyful, a service that vets content online, was monitoring Twitter activity on Saturday morning and said the @2020fight video was the main version of the incident being shared on social media.
    In one indicator of the @2020fight's video's virality, multiple newsrooms, including some national American outlets, reached out to the user asking them directly about the video.

    And our president....instead of rising to the moment and using his bully pulpit to exhibit the same sort of moral authority every single person who occupied the office before him used in similar situations, chose to take a side and further divide the country on this stupid issue by tweeting out Tucker Carlsons' talking points last night and again this morning whilst his government is currently shut down. 

    Vladimir Putin continues to be one happy sumbitch....
    Post edited by The Juggler on
    chinese-happy.jpg
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    SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,520
    mcgruff10 said:
    Even more interesting (how easily we are all persuaded):
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/tech/twitter-suspends-account-native-american-maga-teens/index.html

    Twitter suspends account that helped ignite controversy over viral encounter

    New York (CNN Business)Twitter suspended an account on Monday afternoon that helped spread a controversial encounter between a Native American elder and a group of high school students wearing Make America Great Again hats. 

    The account claimed to belong to a California schoolteacher. Its profile photo was not of a schoolteacher, but of a blogger based in Brazil, CNN Business found. Twitter suspended the account soon after CNN Business asked about it.
    The account, with the username @2020fight, was set up in December 2016 and appeared to be the tweets of a woman named Talia living in California.
    The video shared by @2020fight did not show what preceded the confrontation between the Native American elder and the high school students.
    The video had been posted earlier on Instagram by someone who was at the event, but it was @2020fight's caption that helped frame the news cycle. 
    Rob McDonagh, an assistant editor at Storyful, a service that vets content online, was monitoring Twitter activity on Saturday morning and said the @2020fight video was the main version of the incident being shared on social media.
    In one indicator of the @2020fight's video's virality, multiple newsrooms, including some national American outlets, reached out to the user asking them directly about the video.

    And our president....instead of rising to the moment and using his bully pulpit to exhibit the same sort of moral authority every single person who occupied the office before him used in similar situations, chose to take a side and further divide the country on this stupid issue by tweeting out Tucker Carlsons' talking points last night and again this morning whilst his government is currently shut down. 

    Vladimir Putin continues to be one happy sumbitch....
    Trump spreads lies daily and his Twitter account stays up.

    At least we can keep an eye on Prez Twit.
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    vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,426
    yet twitter still allows Ann Coulter
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    Pro life Team Trump Treason at it again. Brown really is the new black.

    https://apple.news/ACy2wEX2gRueGxerBcUeg2w
     
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    ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,007
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,295
    The president is testing out new slogans on Twitter this morning....as if his stupid wall wasn’t more about politics than anything else already...
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    vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,426

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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,888
    vaggar99 said:

    That last sentence is just plain dumb and ignorant. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    57% of voters believe Russia has compromising information on Team Trump Treason. PTape.
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    vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,426

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    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,109
    57% of voters believe Russia has compromising information on Team Trump Treason. PTape.
    Hmmm. Perhaps. They certainly had something he wanted....well 2 things....help to get him elected (propaganda) and $ from business deal. That’s enough for me.
    hippiemom = goodness
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    vaggar99 said:

    They forgot “do you?” At the end.
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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,824
    I have a legit question about the wall.  Is there a reason it never really had momentum until after the Dems took the House?  Why didn’t they fund the wall when the GOP controlled everything?
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
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    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,109
    OnWis97 said:
    I have a legit question about the wall.  Is there a reason it never really had momentum until after the Dems took the House?  Why didn’t they fund the wall when the GOP controlled everything?
    Cause it’s just a vote getting issue for both parties. It’s why the democrats never did anything worthwhile regarding immigration when they had control. Neither party cares, just wants voters to go to polls. If they fix the issue via compromise....how do they get their voters to the poll next time??!!
    hippiemom = goodness
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,888
    57% of voters believe Russia has compromising information on Team Trump Treason. PTape.
    48% of statistics are made up. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    dignindignin Posts: 9,303
    OnWis97 said:
    I have a legit question about the wall.  Is there a reason it never really had momentum until after the Dems took the House?  Why didn’t they fund the wall when the GOP controlled everything?
    Cause it’s just a vote getting issue for both parties. It’s why the democrats never did anything worthwhile regarding immigration when they had control. Neither party cares, just wants voters to go to polls. If they fix the issue via compromise....how do they get their voters to the poll next time??!!
    Democrats were too busy passing Obamacare. There's always an issue to get people to go to the polls, I don't buy your argument. 
  • Options
    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,109
    dignin said:
    OnWis97 said:
    I have a legit question about the wall.  Is there a reason it never really had momentum until after the Dems took the House?  Why didn’t they fund the wall when the GOP controlled everything?
    Cause it’s just a vote getting issue for both parties. It’s why the democrats never did anything worthwhile regarding immigration when they had control. Neither party cares, just wants voters to go to polls. If they fix the issue via compromise....how do they get their voters to the poll next time??!!
    Democrats were too busy passing Obamacare. There's always an issue to get people to go to the polls, I don't buy your argument. 
    Yup, you don’t have to. Just my opinion ;)

    Why is it we keep taking about the same issues for decades though? 
    hippiemom = goodness
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    dignindignin Posts: 9,303
    dignin said:
    OnWis97 said:
    I have a legit question about the wall.  Is there a reason it never really had momentum until after the Dems took the House?  Why didn’t they fund the wall when the GOP controlled everything?
    Cause it’s just a vote getting issue for both parties. It’s why the democrats never did anything worthwhile regarding immigration when they had control. Neither party cares, just wants voters to go to polls. If they fix the issue via compromise....how do they get their voters to the poll next time??!!
    Democrats were too busy passing Obamacare. There's always an issue to get people to go to the polls, I don't buy your argument. 
    Yup, you don’t have to. Just my opinion ;)

    Why is it we keep taking about the same issues for decades though? 
    I think it's because your 2 party system needs an overhaul. It seems pretty hard to get anything done. That can be both a blessing and a curse.
  • Options
    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,824
    OnWis97 said:
    I have a legit question about the wall.  Is there a reason it never really had momentum until after the Dems took the House?  Why didn’t they fund the wall when the GOP controlled everything?
    Cause it’s just a vote getting issue for both parties. It’s why the democrats never did anything worthwhile regarding immigration when they had control. Neither party cares, just wants voters to go to polls. If they fix the issue via compromise....how do they get their voters to the poll next time??!!
    There may be some truth here but I’m not convinced both-sidesing this is on the money.  I think a part of it could be that the wall is expensive and unpopular and the GOP didn’t want it to only be attached to their party.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,824
    mcgruff10 said:
    57% of voters believe Russia has compromising information on Team Trump Treason. PTape.
    48% of statistics are made up. 
    So there’s a 52% chance that 57% believe this.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
This discussion has been closed.