Abortion-Keep Legal, Yes or No?

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.

I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.

I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

You can only save one.  Which do you save?

These are all so stupid. 

So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

and...which one would you save?

Shall I come up with a stupid story too?

we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense

In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.

Good job ducking the question.

I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

It’s a dumb fucking question.

it's only dumb because the answer is so obvious....like why is water wet?

It’s dumb because it has nothing to do with abortion. By being pro choice you aren’t saving a 5 year old. It has no basis in the discussion other than some fake emotion. 

ridiculous....it points out that 1000 embryos are not equivalent to one toddler

Ignoring my question I see....

so yeah is she wearing a sign around her neck that says "I'm pregnant"?  You're trying to make a point but the setup isn't quite there.

Avoiding again....nice.  

not avoiding....if she had a sign I would save her....no sign then I would save whichever one I was closest to.  Any rational person would say that....just like my scenario

So I guess that we agree that current viable life is more important then the potential of life, however, viable life with the potential for more life > viable life.

What we've discovered is that none of these stupid statements meant to elicit emotion response actually have anything to do with the abortion debate, but can be made up to make it look like 1 side is right even though neither is an equivalent of the abortion debate.

I am against abortion.  As I have stated I have stopped even considering it when it comes to elections.  If someone has an abortion, it disappoints me but they aren't bad people.  And since the Supreme court has ruled and the people are for it...(and probably because my viewpoint doesn;t stem from religious aspects) I'm in the anti-abortion camp but with no real desire to change laws, etc (other than make it easier for people to have access to birth control and education).

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.

I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.

I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

You can only save one.  Which do you save?

These are all so stupid. 

So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

and...which one would you save?

Shall I come up with a stupid story too?

we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense

In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.

Good job ducking the question.

I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

It’s a dumb fucking question.

it's only dumb because the answer is so obvious....like why is water wet?

It’s dumb because it has nothing to do with abortion. By being pro choice you aren’t saving a 5 year old. It has no basis in the discussion other than some fake emotion. 

ridiculous....it points out that 1000 embryos are not equivalent to one toddler

Ignoring my question I see....

so yeah is she wearing a sign around her neck that says "I'm pregnant"?  You're trying to make a point but the setup isn't quite there.

Avoiding again....nice.  

not avoiding....if she had a sign I would save her....no sign then I would save whichever one I was closest to.  Any rational person would say that....just like my scenario

So I guess that we agree that current viable life is more important then the potential of life, however, viable life with the potential for more life > viable life.

What we've discovered is that none of these stupid statements meant to elicit emotion response actually have anything to do with the abortion debate, but can be made up to make it look like 1 side is right even though neither is an equivalent of the abortion debate.

I am against abortion.  As I have stated I have stopped even considering it when it comes to elections.  If someone has an abortion, it disappoints me but they aren't bad people.  And since the Supreme court has ruled and the people are for it...(and probably because my viewpoint doesn;t stem from religious aspects) I'm in the anti-abortion camp but with no real desire to change laws, etc (other than make it easier for people to have access to birth control and education).

My question at least gets you to consider that goop isn't a human being.  1,000 pieces of goop aren't human beings either.

I am also against abortion.  I wish there were no circumstances that required it.  I wish that people were responsible enough to avoid it completely.  But I don't believe the government should have any role in making that decision for a woman.  Especially when the "government" is a bunch of old white men with bibles up their asses.

tbergs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Here's the thing:

People in favour of abortion aren't salivating for the procedures. They have the opinion that some pregnancies are worth terminating given the circumstances around them... and that it has to be left to the woman to decide based on her perspective because she's the expert on 'her' situation.

I grimace at the idea of gasping fetuses on a surgical table too and this is why I would encourage early decision making- get it done while it is still 'goop'.

The 'middle way' (in my mind) is a timeline of some sort (arbitrarily... maybe 16 weeks... before voluntary movement occurs?). I think the 'middle way' would also account for special medical circumstances that allow for a later termination if the mother is threatened or the fetus has issues.

Having said my preferences... I'm okay with a woman's choice no matter what and support them.

I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but I don't know of anyone who is in favor of an abortion, but they are in favor of having a choice.

There have to be people that are in favor of abortion, or no one would have one.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Here's the thing:

People that support a woman's right to an abortion aren't salivating for the procedures. They have the opinion that some pregnancies are worth terminating given the circumstances around them... and that it has to be left to the woman to decide based on her perspective because she's the expert on 'her' situation.

I grimace at the idea of gasping fetuses on a surgical table too and this is why I would encourage early decision making- get it done while it is still 'goop'.

The 'middle way' (in my mind) is a timeline of some sort (arbitrarily... maybe 16 weeks... before voluntary movement occurs?). I think the 'middle way' would also account for special medical circumstances that allow for a later termination if the mother is threatened or the fetus has issues.

Having said my preferences... I'm okay with a woman's choice no matter what and support them.

fixed

I'll never understand the need for those that support "the right to choose" to run away from actually saying they support abortion. 

Latest stats in US - 2014 - over 650,000 abortions.  That is not supporting the right to choose, it's supporting abortion.  650,000 of them.  That is AT least 650,000 people that support abortion....not just the right to choose.  Just own it.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Here's the thing:

People that support a woman's right to an abortion aren't salivating for the procedures. They have the opinion that some pregnancies are worth terminating given the circumstances around them... and that it has to be left to the woman to decide based on her perspective because she's the expert on 'her' situation.

I grimace at the idea of gasping fetuses on a surgical table too and this is why I would encourage early decision making- get it done while it is still 'goop'.

The 'middle way' (in my mind) is a timeline of some sort (arbitrarily... maybe 16 weeks... before voluntary movement occurs?). I think the 'middle way' would also account for special medical circumstances that allow for a later termination if the mother is threatened or the fetus has issues.

Having said my preferences... I'm okay with a woman's choice no matter what and support them.

fixed

I'll never understand the need for those that support "the right to choose" to run away from actually saying they support abortion. 

Latest stats in US - 2014 - over 650,000 abortions.  That is not supporting the right to choose, it's supporting abortion.  650,000 of them.  That is AT least 650,000 people that support abortion....not just the right to choose.  Just own it.

I will.

I'm okay with it.

Yes you seem to.  I can appreciate it, though obviously don't agree.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Here's the thing:

People that support a woman's right to an abortion aren't salivating for the procedures. They have the opinion that some pregnancies are worth terminating given the circumstances around them... and that it has to be left to the woman to decide based on her perspective because she's the expert on 'her' situation.

I grimace at the idea of gasping fetuses on a surgical table too and this is why I would encourage early decision making- get it done while it is still 'goop'.

The 'middle way' (in my mind) is a timeline of some sort (arbitrarily... maybe 16 weeks... before voluntary movement occurs?). I think the 'middle way' would also account for special medical circumstances that allow for a later termination if the mother is threatened or the fetus has issues.

Having said my preferences... I'm okay with a woman's choice no matter what and support them.

fixed

I'll never understand the need for those that support "the right to choose" to run away from actually saying they support abortion. 

Latest stats in US - 2014 - over 650,000 abortions.  That is not supporting the right to choose, it's supporting abortion.  650,000 of them.  That is AT least 650,000 people that support abortion....not just the right to choose.  Just own it.

I will.

I'm okay with it.

Yes you seem to.  I can appreciate it, though obviously don't agree.

If given the task of moving forward and trying to come to some sort of compromise, what is middle ground here? I've laid out what I deem to be reasonable. Do you disagree with establishing timelines and allowing for medical circumstances? 

Nope.  And as I said, I think any compromise needs to include prevention methods....access to bc...education, etc.  Which is always been weird to me how hypocritical many anti-abortion people are in that they don;t support those things.  You'd think it was a given.  

Ohio House of Representatives passes a bill that outlaws abortion after detection of a fetal heartbeat, which occurs as early as 6 weeks. Since women often don't realize they are pregnant until at or after that mark, and since it obviously takes some time to see a doctor, get a referral for an abortion (if it's surgical), pass through mandatory waiting periods, etc., this would all but rule out abortion in Ohio if it passes the Senate and becomes law. It's likely to face legal challenge, but with Trump stacking the deck, these and similar measures are increasingly likely to become a reality.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/ohio-house-passes-fetal-heartbeat-anti-abortion-bill_us_5bee1f58e4b0510a1f2f3518

This is some ignorant scary shit....

Good for Ohio.

Bentleyspop said:

This is some ignorant scary shit....

https://twitter.com/wosunews/status/1064186720143327232?s=19

Very fitting picture with the Tweet. Unbelievable!! 

In recent times, there seems to be something in the news everyday that makes me very happy I live outside of the USA. That is sad, as I have visited and thoroughly enjoyed my time there and also have many friends living there.