Tax Reform

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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    The question was on retirement, no?
    No, Often Reading brought up many ways where we all benefit from taxes: schools,  roads,  defense,  fire,  etc.  You chose to focus on military benefits because you didn't serve.  So what about the rest?  I mean obviously you're living in a cabin in Montana,  home schooling your kids and driving your ATV to pick up your food source out in your fields.  But what about the rest of the 299.999 million of us?
    Based on his post you don’t feel we are overtaxed?
    No we're highly under taxes based on our military budget and guaranteed entitlements.  It's simple math 
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,203
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    The question was on retirement, no?
    No, Often Reading brought up many ways where we all benefit from taxes: schools,  roads,  defense,  fire,  etc.  You chose to focus on military benefits because you didn't serve.  So what about the rest?  I mean obviously you're living in a cabin in Montana,  home schooling your kids and driving your ATV to pick up your food source out in your fields.  But what about the rest of the 299.999 million of us?
    Based on his post you don’t feel we are overtaxed?
    No we're highly under taxes based on our military budget and guaranteed entitlements.  It's simple math 
    I guess I feel differently being from New Jersey.  I think we are top five taxed in the country. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    The question was on retirement, no?
    No, Often Reading brought up many ways where we all benefit from taxes: schools,  roads,  defense,  fire,  etc.  You chose to focus on military benefits because you didn't serve.  So what about the rest?  I mean obviously you're living in a cabin in Montana,  home schooling your kids and driving your ATV to pick up your food source out in your fields.  But what about the rest of the 299.999 million of us?
    Based on his post you don’t feel we are overtaxed?
    No we're highly under taxes based on our military budget and guaranteed entitlements.  It's simple math 
    I guess I feel differently being from New Jersey.  I think we are top five taxed in the country. 
    That's your state issue, not a federal one.  I'm in VA and I think we are fairly taxed.  At the federal level, corporations and businesses are way under taxed based on our liabilities.  We have to make difficult decisions.  There's an old saying (you teach history, so I imagine you know it..) Guns or Butter.  Well the Republicans chose "both".  
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,745
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    The question was on retirement, no?
    No, Often Reading brought up many ways where we all benefit from taxes: schools,  roads,  defense,  fire,  etc.  You chose to focus on military benefits because you didn't serve.  So what about the rest?  I mean obviously you're living in a cabin in Montana,  home schooling your kids and driving your ATV to pick up your food source out in your fields.  But what about the rest of the 299.999 million of us?
    You are not my responsibility, just like I am not yours.  
    What are the internet options in AynRandistan?
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,203
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    The question was on retirement, no?
    No, Often Reading brought up many ways where we all benefit from taxes: schools,  roads,  defense,  fire,  etc.  You chose to focus on military benefits because you didn't serve.  So what about the rest?  I mean obviously you're living in a cabin in Montana,  home schooling your kids and driving your ATV to pick up your food source out in your fields.  But what about the rest of the 299.999 million of us?
    Based on his post you don’t feel we are overtaxed?
    No we're highly under taxes based on our military budget and guaranteed entitlements.  It's simple math 
    I guess I feel differently being from New Jersey.  I think we are top five taxed in the country. 
    That's your state issue, not a federal one.  I'm in VA and I think we are fairly taxed.  At the federal level, corporations and businesses are way under taxed based on our liabilities.  We have to make difficult decisions.  There's an old saying (you teach history, so I imagine you know it..) Guns or Butter.  Well the Republicans chose "both".  
    Oh yeah, it is totally a state issue.  I guess I really never noticed the federal tax rate since the state of New Jersey literally taxes anything and everything. 

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    unsung said:

    BTW @mcgruff10, this meme is factually wrong.  401k's are taxed as ordinary income, not capital gains.  And it's ironic because cap gains are at 15% (if making less than a half million, otherwise 20%), which is probably a touch lower than ordinary income for an upper middle class.  So it's wrong, but then the lie and inaccuracy compounds the wrong.  I'm pretty sure a child wrote this, and an idiot passed it on.  
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,203
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:

    BTW @mcgruff10, this meme is factually wrong.  401k's are taxed as ordinary income, not capital gains.  And it's ironic because cap gains are at 15% (if making less than a half million, otherwise 20%), which is probably a touch lower than ordinary income for an upper middle class.  So it's wrong, but then the lie and inaccuracy compounds the wrong.  I'm pretty sure a child wrote this, and an idiot passed it on.  
    Excellent facts bud!  Thank you. I ll be sure to read that article you posted.  I totally agree with you about businesses not hiring and paying  “under the table”. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    The question was on retirement, no?
    No, Often Reading brought up many ways where we all benefit from taxes: schools,  roads,  defense,  fire,  etc.  You chose to focus on military benefits because you didn't serve.  So what about the rest?  I mean obviously you're living in a cabin in Montana,  home schooling your kids and driving your ATV to pick up your food source out in your fields.  But what about the rest of the 299.999 million of us?
    You are not my responsibility, just like I am not yours.  
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Do you even Constitution, bro?
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,163
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    The question was on retirement, no?
    No, Often Reading brought up many ways where we all benefit from taxes: schools,  roads,  defense,  fire,  etc.  You chose to focus on military benefits because you didn't serve.  So what about the rest?  I mean obviously you're living in a cabin in Montana,  home schooling your kids and driving your ATV to pick up your food source out in your fields.  But what about the rest of the 299.999 million of us?
    You are not my responsibility, just like I am not yours.  
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Do you even Constitution, bro?
    He didn’t build that so he can’t constitute it, yo.
     
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;

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  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    The question was on retirement, no?
    No, Often Reading brought up many ways where we all benefit from taxes: schools,  roads,  defense,  fire,  etc.  You chose to focus on military benefits because you didn't serve.  So what about the rest?  I mean obviously you're living in a cabin in Montana,  home schooling your kids and driving your ATV to pick up your food source out in your fields.  But what about the rest of the 299.999 million of us?
    You are not my responsibility, just like I am not yours.  
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Do you even Constitution, bro?
    I deem Ferraris for all to promote general welfare.  
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    And don't forget about that common defense line in a few weeks.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    The question was on retirement, no?
    No, Often Reading brought up many ways where we all benefit from taxes: schools,  roads,  defense,  fire,  etc.  You chose to focus on military benefits because you didn't serve.  So what about the rest?  I mean obviously you're living in a cabin in Montana,  home schooling your kids and driving your ATV to pick up your food source out in your fields.  But what about the rest of the 299.999 million of us?
    You are not my responsibility, just like I am not yours.  
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Do you even Constitution, bro?
    I deem Ferraris for all to promote general welfare.  
    How do you promote the general welfare with a zero% tax rate?  Shall we rely on charity?  Have you ever actually deeply thought through what you advocate, or is it just random streams of consciousness (and memes)?
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    unsung said:
    And don't forget about that common defense line in a few weeks.

    You mean after the midterms when Mueller starts dropping more indictments?
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    The question was on retirement, no?
    No, Often Reading brought up many ways where we all benefit from taxes: schools,  roads,  defense,  fire,  etc.  You chose to focus on military benefits because you didn't serve.  So what about the rest?  I mean obviously you're living in a cabin in Montana,  home schooling your kids and driving your ATV to pick up your food source out in your fields.  But what about the rest of the 299.999 million of us?
    You are not my responsibility, just like I am not yours.  
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Do you even Constitution, bro?
    I deem Ferraris for all to promote general welfare.  
    How do you promote the general welfare with a zero% tax rate?  Shall we rely on charity?  Have you ever actually deeply thought through what you advocate, or is it just random streams of consciousness (and memes)?
    First of all your question is impossible to answer because it is so vague.  What does general welfare entail?

    And yeah charities certainly do a great deal of good, to believe that they can’t do the job without government is rather foolish.

    I think about it often.  No man has the right to the labor of another.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Memes won an election, never underestimate the power.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    The question was on retirement, no?
    No, Often Reading brought up many ways where we all benefit from taxes: schools,  roads,  defense,  fire,  etc.  You chose to focus on military benefits because you didn't serve.  So what about the rest?  I mean obviously you're living in a cabin in Montana,  home schooling your kids and driving your ATV to pick up your food source out in your fields.  But what about the rest of the 299.999 million of us?
    You are not my responsibility, just like I am not yours.  
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Do you even Constitution, bro?
    I deem Ferraris for all to promote general welfare.  
    How do you promote the general welfare with a zero% tax rate?  Shall we rely on charity?  Have you ever actually deeply thought through what you advocate, or is it just random streams of consciousness (and memes)?
    First of all your question is impossible to answer because it is so vague.  What does general welfare entail?

    And yeah charities certainly do a great deal of good, to believe that they can’t do the job without government is rather foolish.

    I think about it often.  No man has the right to the labor of another.
    The entire western culture was built on the backs or the foundations of the tax.  This goes back to the Greeks, the Romans, and Western Europe.  What historical precedent of a tax free, successful nation state?  Please find me one example.  "No man has the right to the labor of another".. says who?  Even Jesus said "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's." You're advocating a fantasy.  
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    And by the way, the passage from Matthew was in direct response to the question of whether it was lawful for Jews to pay taxes to the Romans.  
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,962
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    The question was on retirement, no?
    No, Often Reading brought up many ways where we all benefit from taxes: schools,  roads,  defense,  fire,  etc.  You chose to focus on military benefits because you didn't serve.  So what about the rest?  I mean obviously you're living in a cabin in Montana,  home schooling your kids and driving your ATV to pick up your food source out in your fields.  But what about the rest of the 299.999 million of us?
    You are not my responsibility, just like I am not yours.  
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Do you even Constitution, bro?
    I deem Ferraris for all to promote general welfare.  
    How do you promote the general welfare with a zero% tax rate?  Shall we rely on charity?  Have you ever actually deeply thought through what you advocate, or is it just random streams of consciousness (and memes)?
    First of all your question is impossible to answer because it is so vague.  What does general welfare entail?


    Duh, Obama phones.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,745
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    The question was on retirement, no?
    No, Often Reading brought up many ways where we all benefit from taxes: schools,  roads,  defense,  fire,  etc.  You chose to focus on military benefits because you didn't serve.  So what about the rest?  I mean obviously you're living in a cabin in Montana,  home schooling your kids and driving your ATV to pick up your food source out in your fields.  But what about the rest of the 299.999 million of us?
    You are not my responsibility, just like I am not yours.  
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Do you even Constitution, bro?
    I deem Ferraris for all to promote general welfare.  
    How do you promote the general welfare with a zero% tax rate?  Shall we rely on charity?  Have you ever actually deeply thought through what you advocate, or is it just random streams of consciousness (and memes)?
    First of all your question is impossible to answer because it is so vague.  What does general welfare entail?

    And yeah charities certainly do a great deal of good, to believe that they can’t do the job without government is rather foolish.

    I think about it often.  No man has the right to the labor of another.
    And again....you benefit from the labor of others
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    The question was on retirement, no?
    No, Often Reading brought up many ways where we all benefit from taxes: schools,  roads,  defense,  fire,  etc.  You chose to focus on military benefits because you didn't serve.  So what about the rest?  I mean obviously you're living in a cabin in Montana,  home schooling your kids and driving your ATV to pick up your food source out in your fields.  But what about the rest of the 299.999 million of us?
    You are not my responsibility, just like I am not yours.  
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Do you even Constitution, bro?
    I deem Ferraris for all to promote general welfare.  
    How do you promote the general welfare with a zero% tax rate?  Shall we rely on charity?  Have you ever actually deeply thought through what you advocate, or is it just random streams of consciousness (and memes)?
    First of all your question is impossible to answer because it is so vague.  What does general welfare entail?

    And yeah charities certainly do a great deal of good, to believe that they can’t do the job without government is rather foolish.

    I think about it often.  No man has the right to the labor of another.

    If only there was some system in place to determine what constitutes general welfare.  Perhaps citizens could voice their opinion with some sort of survey.  Or better yet, designate persons can use those opinions to establish some sort of guidelines.  A law, if you will.



    "No man has the right to the labor of another."
    That is true, slavery was abolished.  Very good.

    Labor theory of property holds that property comes about by the exertion of labor upon natural resources.  You don't own all the resources that contribute to your property.  Accordingly, you don't own all the property that results from your labor.

    (you still didn't build that)

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