Tax Reform

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,986
    What was that again about the corporate tax cuts leading to investment and hiring?

    https://apple.news/A9iNxwhOwTg6_aksV0sFmCg
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    edited October 2018
    According to the bureau of labor statistics,  real wages have not budged at all.  They are at about 2% in 2018, which is in line with inflation . in fact,  real purchasing power is the same as it was in 1978.  In unrelated news, record corporate profits and stock buy backs are prevalent. 
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,986
    mrussel1 said:
    According to the bureau of labor statistics,  real wages have not budged at all.  They are at about 2% in 2018, which is in line with inflation . in fact,  real purchasing power is the same as it was in 1978.  In unrelated news, record corporate profits and stock buy backs are prevalent. 
    Suckers.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927

    Ford Prepares for Mass Layoffs After Losing $1 Billion to Trump's Trade Tariffs


    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-prepares-mass-layoffs-losing-002618564.html
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,986
    CM189191 said:

    Ford Prepares for Mass Layoffs After Losing $1 Billion to Trump's Trade Tariffs


    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-prepares-mass-layoffs-losing-002618564.html
    Brilliant brilliance in all its brilliancy.
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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,652
    CM189191 said:

    Ford Prepares for Mass Layoffs After Losing $1 Billion to Trump's Trade Tariffs


    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-prepares-mass-layoffs-losing-002618564.html

    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mookeywrench
    mookeywrench Posts: 6,054
    The Trump spin: If you get laid off, you make no income. If you make no income, your tax rate drops to 0%.


    350x700px-LL-d2f49cb4_vinyl-needle-scu-e1356666258495.jpeg
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,251
    247 pages of regulations issued for 2018 taxes on January 18th, 2019.  Woohoo!
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,986
    Suckers.

    https://apple.news/AH7dBAMH9R1OQo-sAdUH0pA
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,907
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Suckers.

    https://apple.news/AH7dBAMH9R1OQo-sAdUH0pA
    and lots of middle class people are bitching already because their tax refunds are lower or even have to pay now.  yet so many thought this guy would help them. idiots.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,809
    pjhawks said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Suckers.

    https://apple.news/AH7dBAMH9R1OQo-sAdUH0pA
    and lots of middle class people are bitching already because their tax refunds are lower or even have to pay now.  yet so many thought this guy would help them. idiots.
    You know - tax refund size is a really stupid way to determine if the tax laws have helped or hurt people.  It's only 1 piece of the equation.  
    hippiemom = goodness
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,907
    edited February 2019
    cincybearcat said:
    pjhawks said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Suckers.

    https://apple.news/AH7dBAMH9R1OQo-sAdUH0pA
    and lots of middle class people are bitching already because their tax refunds are lower or even have to pay now.  yet so many thought this guy would help them. idiots.
    You know - tax refund size is a really stupid way to determine if the tax laws have helped or hurt people.  It's only 1 piece of the equation.  
    agree, but two things. one his tax laws are going to screw the middle and lower class in the long run. and second cutting their tax returns points out to the less astute people that the tax law is screwing them.  it's just another issue to move some of his moron supporters away from him.  it's a bad look for him when he is touting the economy.  people will see their's cut and not like it much even if they are receiving a tad more per paycheck.
    Post edited by pjhawks on
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    cincybearcat said:
    pjhawks said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Suckers.

    https://apple.news/AH7dBAMH9R1OQo-sAdUH0pA
    and lots of middle class people are bitching already because their tax refunds are lower or even have to pay now.  yet so many thought this guy would help them. idiots.
    You know - tax refund size is a really stupid way to determine if the tax laws have helped or hurt people.  It's only 1 piece of the equation.  
    You're right!  Corporations got to buyback stocks.  While their primary shareholders saw their stock values go up bc they were less diluted.  So it had a doubling effect to hurt poor/middle class, while helping the rich get richer.

    But I'm sure you have a perfectly cromulent explanation as to how there's very fine people on both sides here.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,809
    CM189191 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    pjhawks said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Suckers.

    https://apple.news/AH7dBAMH9R1OQo-sAdUH0pA
    and lots of middle class people are bitching already because their tax refunds are lower or even have to pay now.  yet so many thought this guy would help them. idiots.
    You know - tax refund size is a really stupid way to determine if the tax laws have helped or hurt people.  It's only 1 piece of the equation.  
    You're right!  Corporations got to buyback stocks.  While their primary shareholders saw their stock values go up bc they were less diluted.  So it had a doubling effect to hurt poor/middle class, while helping the rich get richer.

    But I'm sure you have a perfectly cromulent explanation as to how there's very fine people on both sides here.
    Ummm, that response had nothing to do with my comment.

    To figure out if the new tax laws have helped or hurt you, you need to consider if you had additional "take home" pay each paycheck.  Just because your refund is reduced doesn;t mean you paid more taxes.  You may have gotten your $ sooner.  So, this needs a tiny bit deeper dive.  Could still mean people got less, not saying it doesn;t.  But alone it doesn't mean shit. 

    I always feel bad for the idiot americans that think a big refund is great...they just gave the US government an interest free loan for a year and they are happy about it.  Dummies.


    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,809
    pjhawks said:
    cincybearcat said:
    pjhawks said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Suckers.

    https://apple.news/AH7dBAMH9R1OQo-sAdUH0pA
    and lots of middle class people are bitching already because their tax refunds are lower or even have to pay now.  yet so many thought this guy would help them. idiots.
    You know - tax refund size is a really stupid way to determine if the tax laws have helped or hurt people.  It's only 1 piece of the equation.  
    agree, but two things. one his tax laws are going to screw the middle and lower class in the long run. and second cutting their tax returns points out to the less astute people that the tax law is screwing them.  it's just another issue to move some of his moron supporters away from him.  it's a bad look for him when he is touting the economy.  people will see their's cut and not like it much even if they are receiving a tad more per paycheck.
    1) Perhaps.  It seems like a risk for sure.
    2) It may appear to point it out to them, but again, it doesn't mean they paid more tax.

    And I don;t know why but I feel like I have to reiterate it every time (you know since some (not you here pjhawks) seem to think anytime you aren't jumping on the bandwagon of everything trump related is immediately the worst thing in the world)...if you look back, I was not for this tax reform.  I feel they had some good in it and some bad and I wouldn't have voted for it.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    cincybearcat said:
    CM189191 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    pjhawks said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Suckers.

    https://apple.news/AH7dBAMH9R1OQo-sAdUH0pA
    and lots of middle class people are bitching already because their tax refunds are lower or even have to pay now.  yet so many thought this guy would help them. idiots.
    You know - tax refund size is a really stupid way to determine if the tax laws have helped or hurt people.  It's only 1 piece of the equation.  
    You're right!  Corporations got to buyback stocks.  While their primary shareholders saw their stock values go up bc they were less diluted.  So it had a doubling effect to hurt poor/middle class, while helping the rich get richer.

    But I'm sure you have a perfectly cromulent explanation as to how there's very fine people on both sides here.
    Ummm, that response had nothing to do with my comment.

    To figure out if the new tax laws have helped or hurt you, you need to consider if you had additional "take home" pay each paycheck.  Just because your refund is reduced doesn;t mean you paid more taxes.  You may have gotten your $ sooner.  So, this needs a tiny bit deeper dive.  Could still mean people got less, not saying it doesn;t.  But alone it doesn't mean shit. 

    I always feel bad for the idiot americans that think a big refund is great...they just gave the US government an interest free loan for a year and they are happy about it.  Dummies.


    You know how I know you didn't read the article....?


    Back in 2017, as the tax bill moved on the Hill, lawmakers claimed the cut they proposed in the corporate tax rate to 21 percent from 35 percent would trickle down to workers in the form of higher wages and bonuses. 

    The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported nominal wages increased 3.2 percent in January year over year, and by less than one percent — three cents to $27.56 — month over month. 

    Bonuses have registered less of an impact, increasing just 2 cents an hour in the first nine months of 2018.  The increase was "imperceptible," "Whatever growth in bonuses has taken place is not necessarily attributable to the tax cuts, rather than employer efforts to recruit workers in a continued low unemployment environment."

    By all accounts, companies poured a hefty portion of the tax windfall into buying back shares, a move designed to at least temporarily boost stock prices, which benefits executives and other large stockholders. 


    I feel bad for the idiot Americans who fell for the trickle down promise....again.  Dummies.  
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,809
    CM189191 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    CM189191 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    pjhawks said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Suckers.

    https://apple.news/AH7dBAMH9R1OQo-sAdUH0pA
    and lots of middle class people are bitching already because their tax refunds are lower or even have to pay now.  yet so many thought this guy would help them. idiots.
    You know - tax refund size is a really stupid way to determine if the tax laws have helped or hurt people.  It's only 1 piece of the equation.  
    You're right!  Corporations got to buyback stocks.  While their primary shareholders saw their stock values go up bc they were less diluted.  So it had a doubling effect to hurt poor/middle class, while helping the rich get richer.

    But I'm sure you have a perfectly cromulent explanation as to how there's very fine people on both sides here.
    Ummm, that response had nothing to do with my comment.

    To figure out if the new tax laws have helped or hurt you, you need to consider if you had additional "take home" pay each paycheck.  Just because your refund is reduced doesn;t mean you paid more taxes.  You may have gotten your $ sooner.  So, this needs a tiny bit deeper dive.  Could still mean people got less, not saying it doesn;t.  But alone it doesn't mean shit. 

    I always feel bad for the idiot americans that think a big refund is great...they just gave the US government an interest free loan for a year and they are happy about it.  Dummies.


    You know how I know you didn't read the article....?


    Back in 2017, as the tax bill moved on the Hill, lawmakers claimed the cut they proposed in the corporate tax rate to 21 percent from 35 percent would trickle down to workers in the form of higher wages and bonuses. 

    The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported nominal wages increased 3.2 percent in January year over year, and by less than one percent — three cents to $27.56 — month over month. 

    Bonuses have registered less of an impact, increasing just 2 cents an hour in the first nine months of 2018.  The increase was "imperceptible," "Whatever growth in bonuses has taken place is not necessarily attributable to the tax cuts, rather than employer efforts to recruit workers in a continued low unemployment environment."

    By all accounts, companies poured a hefty portion of the tax windfall into buying back shares, a move designed to at least temporarily boost stock prices, which benefits executives and other large stockholders. 


    I feel bad for the idiot Americans who fell for the trickle down promise....again.  Dummies.  
    I’m not talking about wage increase. Is this really that difficult for you to understand? 

    hippiemom = goodness
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,986
    So, not withholding what was previously withheld is considered a tax cut? And then adjusting the tax withholding tables, and unless you made adjustments you’re going to pay, without publicizing this aspect equals a great middle class tax cut? Meanwhile, 80% of the benefit goes to the top 10%. Please let me know when this is next years stimulus so I can bend over again. Suckers.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,144
    cincybearcat said:
    CM189191 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    pjhawks said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Suckers.

    https://apple.news/AH7dBAMH9R1OQo-sAdUH0pA
    and lots of middle class people are bitching already because their tax refunds are lower or even have to pay now.  yet so many thought this guy would help them. idiots.
    You know - tax refund size is a really stupid way to determine if the tax laws have helped or hurt people.  It's only 1 piece of the equation.  
    You're right!  Corporations got to buyback stocks.  While their primary shareholders saw their stock values go up bc they were less diluted.  So it had a doubling effect to hurt poor/middle class, while helping the rich get richer.

    But I'm sure you have a perfectly cromulent explanation as to how there's very fine people on both sides here.
    Ummm, that response had nothing to do with my comment.

    To figure out if the new tax laws have helped or hurt you, you need to consider if you had additional "take home" pay each paycheck.  Just because your refund is reduced doesn;t mean you paid more taxes.  You may have gotten your $ sooner.  So, this needs a tiny bit deeper dive.  Could still mean people got less, not saying it doesn;t.  But alone it doesn't mean shit. 

    I always feel bad for the idiot americans that think a big refund is great...they just gave the US government an interest free loan for a year and they are happy about it.  Dummies.


    Banks don't pay interest anyway....what's the diff
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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,809
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    So, not withholding what was previously withheld is considered a tax cut? And then adjusting the tax withholding tables, and unless you made adjustments you’re going to pay, without publicizing this aspect equals a great middle class tax cut? Meanwhile, 80% of the benefit goes to the top 10%. Please let me know when this is next years stimulus so I can bend over again. Suckers.
    No, reducing the % taken out of your paycheck is a tax cut though. 

    I agree this tax tax cut is not going to be what was promised. But certainly you can agree that using tax refunds as the only data to show that the tax cut cost you $ is irresponsible and false, right?
    hippiemom = goodness

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