Tax Reform

Halifax2TheMax

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

So, not withholding what was previously withheld is considered a tax cut? And then adjusting the tax withholding tables, and unless you made adjustments you’re going to pay, without publicizing this aspect equals a great middle class tax cut? Meanwhile, 80% of the benefit goes to the top 10%. Please let me know when this is next years stimulus so I can bend over again. Suckers.

No, reducing the % taken out of your paycheck is a tax cut though. 

I agree this tax tax cut is not going to be what was promised. But certainly you can agree that using tax refunds as the only data to show that the tax cut cost you $ is irresponsible and false, right?

So, reduce the % and eliminate or cap deductions. Either way, it was an unnecessary give away to the top 10% and the middle class will “pay” for it. Surely, you’re not going to argue the data in the article or the corporate stock buy backs?

cincybearcat

Halifax2TheMax said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

So, not withholding what was previously withheld is considered a tax cut? And then adjusting the tax withholding tables, and unless you made adjustments you’re going to pay, without publicizing this aspect equals a great middle class tax cut? Meanwhile, 80% of the benefit goes to the top 10%. Please let me know when this is next years stimulus so I can bend over again. Suckers.

No, reducing the % taken out of your paycheck is a tax cut though. 

I agree this tax tax cut is not going to be what was promised. But certainly you can agree that using tax refunds as the only data to show that the tax cut cost you $ is irresponsible and false, right?

So, reduce the % and eliminate or cap deductions. Either way, it was an unnecessary give away to the top 10% and the middle class will “pay” for it. Surely, you’re not going to argue the data in the article or the corporate stock buy backs?

I haven’t argued against that part at all. Totally different aspect of tax program then I was talking about . I responded to pjhawks comment about people complaining about their tax refunds 

Halifax2TheMax

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

So, not withholding what was previously withheld is considered a tax cut? And then adjusting the tax withholding tables, and unless you made adjustments you’re going to pay, without publicizing this aspect equals a great middle class tax cut? Meanwhile, 80% of the benefit goes to the top 10%. Please let me know when this is next years stimulus so I can bend over again. Suckers.

No, reducing the % taken out of your paycheck is a tax cut though. 

I agree this tax tax cut is not going to be what was promised. But certainly you can agree that using tax refunds as the only data to show that the tax cut cost you $ is irresponsible and false, right?

So, reduce the % and eliminate or cap deductions. Either way, it was an unnecessary give away to the top 10% and the middle class will “pay” for it. Surely, you’re not going to argue the data in the article or the corporate stock buy backs?

I haven’t argued against that part at all. Totally different aspect of tax program then I was talking about . I responded to pjhawks comment about people complaining about their tax refunds 

Then why were you asking me? I wasn’t “arguing” pjhawks’ point. It’s still an unnecessary giveaway to the top 10% that ain’t going to trickle down or lead to zero unemployment or nice bonuses for people in the lower income bracket and it adds $1.7 Trillion to the debt. Brilliant, brilliance in all its brilliancy.

 

cincybearcat

Halifax2TheMax said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

So, not withholding what was previously withheld is considered a tax cut? And then adjusting the tax withholding tables, and unless you made adjustments you’re going to pay, without publicizing this aspect equals a great middle class tax cut? Meanwhile, 80% of the benefit goes to the top 10%. Please let me know when this is next years stimulus so I can bend over again. Suckers.

No, reducing the % taken out of your paycheck is a tax cut though. 

I agree this tax tax cut is not going to be what was promised. But certainly you can agree that using tax refunds as the only data to show that the tax cut cost you $ is irresponsible and false, right?

So, reduce the % and eliminate or cap deductions. Either way, it was an unnecessary give away to the top 10% and the middle class will “pay” for it. Surely, you’re not going to argue the data in the article or the corporate stock buy backs?

I haven’t argued against that part at all. Totally different aspect of tax program then I was talking about . I responded to pjhawks comment about people complaining about their tax refunds 

Then why were you asking me? I wasn’t “arguing” pjhawks’ point. It’s still an unnecessary giveaway to the top 10% that ain’t going to trickle down or lead to zero unemployment or nice bonuses for people in the lower income bracket and it adds $1.7 Trillion to the debt. Brilliant, brilliance in all its brilliancy.

 

Sorry your post came after mine and I must have thought it was a reply. 

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

So, not withholding what was previously withheld is considered a tax cut? And then adjusting the tax withholding tables, and unless you made adjustments you’re going to pay, without publicizing this aspect equals a great middle class tax cut? Meanwhile, 80% of the benefit goes to the top 10%. Please let me know when this is next years stimulus so I can bend over again. Suckers.

No, reducing the % taken out of your paycheck is a tax cut though. 

I agree this tax tax cut is not going to be what was promised. But certainly you can agree that using tax refunds as the only data to show that the tax cut cost you $ is irresponsible and false, right?

Actually reducing the % taken out is not a tax cut.  It just reduces the amount you are paying toward your eventual tax as calculated on your tax return.

There are people getting hosed with this new law.  I've already done a few returns where a married couple has itemized deductions that were already around $24K normally.  So the new standard deduction doesn't help them BUT they lose all of the exemption deduction.  If you have two kids that is a $16K deduction that is gone.  

I also did a return for a home health care provider.  She relied on the standard mileage deduction as her employer does not reimburse her for mileage.  That was a $10K deduction in 2017....now it's gone.

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

So, not withholding what was previously withheld is considered a tax cut? And then adjusting the tax withholding tables, and unless you made adjustments you’re going to pay, without publicizing this aspect equals a great middle class tax cut? Meanwhile, 80% of the benefit goes to the top 10%. Please let me know when this is next years stimulus so I can bend over again. Suckers.

No, reducing the % taken out of your paycheck is a tax cut though. 

I agree this tax tax cut is not going to be what was promised. But certainly you can agree that using tax refunds as the only data to show that the tax cut cost you $ is irresponsible and false, right?

Actually reducing the % taken out is not a tax cut.  It just reduces the amount you are paying toward your eventual tax as calculated on your tax return.

There are people getting hosed with this new law.  I've already done a few returns where a married couple has itemized deductions that were already around $24K normally.  So the new standard deduction doesn't help them BUT they lose all of the exemption deduction.  If you have two kids that is a $16K deduction that is gone.  

I also did a return for a home health care provider.  She relied on the standard mileage deduction as her employer does not reimburse her for mileage.  That was a $10K deduction in 2017....now it's gone.

Yeah I said it was part of the equation. 

Thst mileage thing Hong is a huge bummer for that person. I wonder how many people are affected by that?

mrussel1

cincybearcat said:

pjhawks said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Suckers.

https://apple.news/AH7dBAMH9R1OQo-sAdUH0pA

and lots of middle class people are bitching already because their tax refunds are lower or even have to pay now.  yet so many thought this guy would help them. idiots.

You know - tax refund size is a really stupid way to determine if the tax laws have helped or hurt people.  It's only 1 piece of the equation.  

Two things. 

The IRS changed the withholding tables to make increase take home amounts.  This result was intentional.  Many CPAs felt that this was to manipulate the middle class into feeling better about the tax plan before the midterms.  The IRS has argued they were simply rebalancing the tables. 

However,  the reality is that Americans have become accustomed to large refunds to make big purchases,  juice their accounts,  etc. So while you're right,  it is one factor,  but it's absolutely an important way people judge the cuts.  

Plus.... remember the loss of SALT is a real thing that people are feeling m

Gern Blansten

yes people in high tax states are getting killed....their real estate tax alone is over $10K and starting in 2018 $10K is the cap. 

That means their ordinary income is double taxed...once for fed and once for state....it's bullshit

bootlegger10

Clearly, to determine the tax impact of the new law you would compare your total tax in 2017 and 2018, and not what your payment due or refund with the return is.   Assumes that your income is relatively the same in each year. 

Gern Blansten

I don't blame the Dems for using the "lower refund" attack.  It takes advantage of the same ignorance that the GOP has been exploiting for years

cincybearcat

bootlegger10 said:

Clearly, to determine the tax impact of the new law you would compare your total tax in 2017 and 2018, and not what your payment due or refund with the return is.   Assumes that your income is relatively the same in each year. 

Exactly. 

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

I don't blame the Dems for using the "lower refund" attack.  It takes advantage of the same ignorance that the GOP has been exploiting for years

I do. I don’t think one side doing something crappy means it’s ok for you to do it. The “they did it first” argument doesn’t hold water for me much....sometimes I guess. I understand your opinion on this though, and it’s not a terrible offense. It does highlight how stupid people are and how the democrats want to win the stupid vote back! 

mrussel1

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I don't blame the Dems for using the "lower refund" attack.  It takes advantage of the same ignorance that the GOP has been exploiting for years

I do. I don’t think one side doing something crappy means it’s ok for you to do it. The “they did it first” argument doesn’t hold water for me much....sometimes I guess. I understand your opinion on this though, and it’s not a terrible offense. It does highlight how stupid people are and how the democrats want to win the stupid vote back! 

The argument isn't whether the middle class is paying more or less under this plan.  It's that the cut was overwhelmingly weighted towards the wealthy and the corporations.  And that point is indisputable.  The middle class got crumbs and many will pay more, especially those in states with state income taxes. 

HesCalledDyer

Lowest refund of my adult life.  And that includes when I was 18 making $4.75/hr at a part time job.  And no, my paychecks didn't make up for it.  My net pay was a lower % of my gross pay in 2018 than 2017.  Where's my "cut"???  ("Just be glad you didn't owe" is not an acceptable answer.)

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I don't blame the Dems for using the "lower refund" attack.  It takes advantage of the same ignorance that the GOP has been exploiting for years

I do. I don’t think one side doing something crappy means it’s ok for you to do it. The “they did it first” argument doesn’t hold water for me much....sometimes I guess. I understand your opinion on this though, and it’s not a terrible offense. It does highlight how stupid people are and how the democrats want to win the stupid vote back! 

I used to believe that....it doesn't work.  The stupid have to be exploited to win....just look at what happened in 2016

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I don't blame the Dems for using the "lower refund" attack.  It takes advantage of the same ignorance that the GOP has been exploiting for years

I do. I don’t think one side doing something crappy means it’s ok for you to do it. The “they did it first” argument doesn’t hold water for me much....sometimes I guess. I understand your opinion on this though, and it’s not a terrible offense. It does highlight how stupid people are and how the democrats want to win the stupid vote back! 

The argument isn't whether the middle class is paying more or less under this plan.  It's that the cut was overwhelmingly weighted towards the wealthy and the corporations.  And that point is indisputable.  The middle class got crumbs and many will pay more, especially those in states with state income taxes. 

Exactly....and the people that got the biggest cuts don't need it, didn't plan on it, and it did NOT influence their decision making in how to run their businesses whether it relates to hiring, buying equipment, etc.

mrussel1

HesCalledDyer said:

Lowest refund of my adult life.  And that includes when I was 18 making $4.75/hr at a part time job.  And no, my paychecks didn't make up for it.  My net pay was a lower % of my gross pay in 2018 than 2017.  Where's my "cut"???  ("Just be glad you didn't owe" is not an acceptable answer.)

And if im not mistaken,  you're in Maryland? So the move to a high standard deduction probably hurt you, as it will me.  

My wife told me we are probably going to be even on federal. She expected this and moved our withholding up to 25% at the beginning of 2018.  That's no tax cut for me. 

Bentleyspop

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I don't blame the Dems for using the "lower refund" attack.  It takes advantage of the same ignorance that the GOP has been exploiting for years

I do. I don’t think one side doing something crappy means it’s ok for you to do it. The “they did it first” argument doesn’t hold water for me much....sometimes I guess. I understand your opinion on this though, and it’s not a terrible offense. It does highlight how stupid people are and how the democrats want to win the stupid vote back! 

The argument isn't whether the middle class is paying more or less under this plan.  It's that the cut was overwhelmingly weighted towards the wealthy and the corporations.  And that point is indisputable.  The middle class got crumbs and many will pay more, especially those in states with state income taxes. 

Exactly....and the people that got the biggest cuts don't need it, didn't plan on it, and it did NOT influence their decision making in how to run their businesses whether it relates to hiring, buying equipment, etc.

Ding ding ding WINNER!!!!

cincybearcat

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I don't blame the Dems for using the "lower refund" attack.  It takes advantage of the same ignorance that the GOP has been exploiting for years

I do. I don’t think one side doing something crappy means it’s ok for you to do it. The “they did it first” argument doesn’t hold water for me much....sometimes I guess. I understand your opinion on this though, and it’s not a terrible offense. It does highlight how stupid people are and how the democrats want to win the stupid vote back! 

The argument isn't whether the middle class is paying more or less under this plan.  It's that the cut was overwhelmingly weighted towards the wealthy and the corporations.  And that point is indisputable.  The middle class got crumbs and many will pay more, especially those in states with state income taxes. 

You know I find this argument interesting.  Everyone wants a progressive scale for taxes.  And then when it comes to cuts they want it to be progressive again in the opposite direction.  I understand your opinion in this, but again it wasn;t what I was talking about.  I'm specifically talking about idiots that think just because their refund is lower that it automatically means they paid more in taxes.

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I don't blame the Dems for using the "lower refund" attack.  It takes advantage of the same ignorance that the GOP has been exploiting for years

I do. I don’t think one side doing something crappy means it’s ok for you to do it. The “they did it first” argument doesn’t hold water for me much....sometimes I guess. I understand your opinion on this though, and it’s not a terrible offense. It does highlight how stupid people are and how the democrats want to win the stupid vote back! 

I used to believe that....it doesn't work.  The stupid have to be exploited to win....just look at what happened in 2016

I do understand what you are saying and you could be 100% right.  I still hate it